some replace internal wiring...and solder, and...
Where do you stop?
I bought some 99.9 % pure silver speaker cables. I read the reviews before investing in them and they talked about how they seem brighter and most felt it was because of the lack of noise and more imagining. Some didn't care for the new sound but most loved what it did. I really liked the change so much I bought some to go from my preamp to my mono block tube amps. That sounded even better. So what the heck I bought more to use from a phono amp to my pre amp and then some silver phono cables. Every time I added them into my system it sounded better and better. So here is my question, The Silver in the cables according to the reviews are superior because they conduct electricity better than copper and have a lower impedance if my memory serves me correctly. What happens to the signal when it meets copper wiring in speakers or other gear? Should all the wire be replaced anywhere it can be and will it continue to sound better?
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I had a similar experience. Every time I added another silver interconnect things kept getting better — it was additive. I find the better silver cables are not bright — just clearer sounding with a bit less warmth than copper cables, but in the end it all comes down to system synergy. I suppose you could have someone modify your other equipment with internal silver wire, but I’m not going that far although when I upgraded my amp they did put silver wire in it but wasn’t why I upgraded my amp. Just my $0.02 FWIW, and glad you’re happy with your silver cables. |
In my opinion the sound is better than anything I have had previously. It is exactly as described, detailed and quite. I am considering having the speakers rewired with silver wire just to see what it does and maybe using it for my subs too. And I still need another set of phono wires. I was surprised at the improvement. I have put together a nice system over the years and didn't think I would be able to improve on it much and was I wrong. Thank you for your input. |
So you got silver speaker cables and interconnects, could you share with us the brands ? I am on the same silver experiment, I went with all Chinese for affordability incase it doesn't work out, but so far so good. Silver tends to give a tighter bass, not necessarily less, and since the highs and mids are so much more airy and transparent it tends to make the bass seem more deficient. A sub definitely helps. |
I don't know why silver sounds better, but for IC's it does to my ears and it made me stop looking for anything else. Still, there is a law of diminishing returns, and that you can only upgrade your Mazda so much. :) Meaning, it may be a great car for you but no amount of money will turn it into a Lotus or Bughatti. So worth thinking about that before investing. Also, of course, room acoustics. They will help get you off an upgrade cycle pretty quickly. |
I started with clearday double shotgun speaker wires 250 on here. I buy a lot of used stuff and have had great luck with it, that stretches my buying power and if I don't like it I resell it. Then I bought a pair of Nordost silver ribbon interconnects, I forget the model. Then I got more on here that were unbranded but sounded great too. I ordered a set of phono wires new from someone I found on ebay in the UK that made some for me and are marketed as woodbury audio. Nice quality and sound. I am ordering another set from them for a second table I use. They run about 270 with shipping for 1.2 meter length. I can get you info if your interested. |
@erik_squires Heh heh. Good one. |
In my main system I have a Mcintosch c28, VTL 240 deluxe mono blocks, Oracle delphi turntable with a signet arm, Thorens td 160 with a syntec S200 arm and to many cartridges to list. I use a furman 15amp power conditioner and a ps labs ultimate outlet (I would highly recommend). Not a lambo but not a mazda either. Its all vintage gear like me pretty much. |
Interesting question. I don’t know. And for what it’s worth, I experimented with changing speaker cables first then ICs then power. It made a difference and the only silver I have is my ICs - Kimber Kable KTCG. Each change was dramatic - and I bought used and demo after I heard the speaker cable difference.
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Yes vinyl is my preference. I have recently got a reel to reel and enjoy that. It is hard to find reasonable pre recorded music. I will eventually record all the vinyl I have. Once I get tired of changing, cleaning records and stylus I will probably go to streaming. I just like the sound of analog/vinyl for now. |
OP,
Thanks for sharing your equipment. Very good choices.
There is a place under your user ID to put some photos and I’d your equipment. It is really helpful to us and you don’t have to keep reposting it.
Your experience with silver could be completely different with someone else. It is so equipment dependent and value dependent. When I started out my equipment was relatively inexpensive and solid state and my speakers were ribbon… really revealing. This was 40 - 50 years ago. Put silver on my system and I would go running from the room… and my partner would. All down from upstairs and tell me to turn it down… or off. As I got better equipment.. I used silver coated copper… but it is not as simple as that. High quality interconnects use different dielectrics and geometries to refine the sound. So, with your equipment, I am really happy to hear you have had increasingly better sound cables with silver in them. |
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If upgrading the system to silver wiring, what about the power cables coming into the house? They are still copper. So you can only go so far. Plus current doesn’t flow faster through silver vs copper but it does matter about wire size. Actually I heard speaker wires from AQ that cost thousands with the battery pack which on a certain high end amp made the speakers sound worse than putting in a different pair of cables on the same amp. So yes it’s a challenge to match the right pair of cables with your equipment. |
I ended up on a similar journey. In one of my systems, I ended up with a full loom of 5N silver interconnects, speaker cables, digital cable, and power cords. That's where I'm going to stop, I'm not going to be concerned with internal wiring although I have a feeling that it would make a positive difference also. I also think the quality of the silver cables makes a big difference. |
I'm having an amp built with all internal silver wiring. That said, silver isn't always better. It is however, always about 7% better conductor than copper. However, conductance (inverse of resisistance) isn't always the governing parameter. You quote what others have said about silver. I generally ignore these wine spectator sounding monologs. Everyone feels that if they can't write a review that includes "subtle hints of anis and manure" they aren't really and audiophile and I think most of them are not very accurate. Use your own ears. One rule of thumb I have about silver. digital signals always benefit from a little silver. but since it is such a low level signal, silver coated copper works well. I am currently using silver/gold/copper interconnects by Mundorf but I've been meaning to build some pure silver ones and your post reminded me to get that wire ordered. Enjoy. Jerry |
@eryoung2k Gold is not as good a conductor as copper but I can see that it might appeak to uneducated rich guys.
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Let's not forget, the documented aging effect of not hearing highs as well as when younger. Of course, average does not mean you. Thus, young people might find silver 'bright', while some of us old dogs might benefit from a slight boost of the highs. That's another reason I like level controls for mids and tweets (or high quality equalizers). |
Silver works great in systems that are not analytical, ie warm. Mixtures of silver and other metals like copper a gold can have great effects on sound ie Siltech cables. Too much silver can cause a system to sound “shrill” or overly bright. Moral of the story, silver is like butter, a little enhances flavor, too much and it can be sickening. |
Absolutely true! But you will learn a lot more for less with less expensive items to experiment with. Cheaper and probably more satisfying to buy a used tube pre or build your own speakers from scratch than to tinker too much with expensive gear. At least at first. :) |
Thanks everyone for your input. It sounds like a lot of you have experienced the same result as I did. Some of you are spot on. I am older and my hearing has changed. I am in this journey for the pleasure I get from the music. The equipment I have tried and accumulated over the years simply delivers it. It has been fun and interesting to hear and experience the different results. I have come to the conclusion that music can sound great and very different when making the changes. No two systems sound the same. We all have our preferences and prejudice on what is best. That is what makes it fun for me. This community here is great way to explore and share. I started in 1977 when in college. I borrowed a 1000 dollars from a finance company and headed to the Stereo Warehouse in Sante Fe New Mexico. Came home with a Sansui Au7900 I still have, a jvc turntable and a pair of ESS tower speakers. |
Silver has a resistivity of 1.59x10-8 and conductivity of 6.30x107
Copper is 1.68x10-8 and 5.98x107, respectively. In other words, you absolutely will not hear a difference but your easily suggestible brain may tell you otherwise. If you believe otherwise, you'll need to replace ALL the copper wiring in your components and speakers (coils, chokes, etc) and house and power company etc, to get the best sound. Don't forget the windings in your cartridge!
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MR Skeptic, I think sometimes you are right. If I pay a lot of money for something I want it to sound better. I heard the difference in the music and so do a lot of others. Are you saying you have tried it yourself and not just looked at the science behind the material and it didn't sound different to you? |
@mrskeptic Try listening to the Acoustic Zen Silver Ref vs. the copper Matrix Ref. Basically the same geometry, dielectric, etc. with the main difference being silver versus copper. If you can’t hear a difference between these two, go get your ears checked. Put another way, get your head outta the books and actually go listen — it’s far more educational, and fun. |
I looked at the Iconoclast cables white papers based on science article and it was way over my head. I know what my ears hear and that is enough for me. I like to compare cartridges so a a/b them. I have two tables connected and duplicate albums so I can set them at the same place and go back and forth. I will listen to one (a) and switch it to (b) and think (b) is better. Then switch back to (a) and decide (a) is better. They are different but I like both. I do think when you get to a certain level of gear it can all sound great and different. They decide at the factories what they like and hope that others like it too. It is all subject to some ones ear or opinion. We all have ears that don't work the same as someone else and we all have opinions. |
You know that is interesting “…the cultural rush to buy.” I think the internet has had a big influence on audio purchases. It is much easier to look at components more as commodities on line and then start looking for a good deal. I would think that might have a real limiting effect on the average experience of many folks. In the old days you had to go to a store where you pretty quickly could realize different stuff sounded different. Kind of like red wine, the bottles look pretty much the same and have red liquid in them… but they don’t taste the same. |
Dynamique Audio cables. They have excellent neutral sounding cables ranging from pure Copper up to Gold and Rhodium plated pure Silver cables from $$ to $$$$$. They all share a similar sound signature and cable design. Have been using them for the last 4 years and there is no going back to previous cables I tried. |
Spot on. The internet phenomenon, which brings sick dudes like Cin Dyment in play with imaginary made up “systems” and “jobs” and a powerful Google Machine. Fcuked up world. No different than the St. Petersburg troll factory
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I have been using silver interconnects for 40 years or so. Siltec. The old blue ones with silver writing. Indeed, the issue now comes to mind as to whether there has been deterioration in that time. Oxidation if air can get in. Probably can. Still, they seem to sound the same as they always did, although my hearing ain't what it was. The ones that made the biggest difference are the tonearm cables. Presumably because the music signal they carry is so low voltage. Apart from what I hear as purer sound with less noise, most silver cables seem to be more flexible than copper and so easier to route where I want them to go. |
Pure silver takes a heck of a long time to break in. Even using a cable cooker it can take 3 times a long as copper, and even then it needs more break in time on the actual components of your audio system. The gold/silver alloy wires have just the right amount edge removed and break in more quickly. That said, my favorite speaker cables I made from stranded, tinned copper 10 gauge cloth covered wire pulled from a 1980's phone central office which had 48-175 d/c volts going through them the whole time. Now that's break-in.
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