My vote would be the lack of funding for arts education in today's schools. First you need to hear great music in order to want to hear more great music. I went to my first professional concert after passing the Music Memory test ( all classical music BTW) in my public school music class--a required course for every sixth grade student. A bunch of us, all relatively poor kids from the country, climbed on a school bus and headed into the big city to listen to a symphony orchestra as our reward for passing the test. I still remember that night vividly. I heard beautiful live music for the first time. I bought my first vinyl rig a few years later--working summers on an Arizona cotton farm making $2.05 an hour and saving money. Never walked into a "hi-end" audio shop until I was in my 40s. I forced all my kids to study classical piano. They all wanted to quit. I didn't let them. I told them it was a gift I was giving them; they just didn't realize it yet. I also went to live concerts with my kids so they could catch the magic. These investments in my kids' musical education worked. Now, they all are music lovers with their own music collections. Their audio equipment is consistent with their current economic stations in life. I doubt hi-end audio will ever get their money but I bet mid-fi will.
What’s really hurting the audio hobby?
Maybe it’s the audio dealer experience? Where else can newbies go to get started in this hobby. Isn't that where most of you got hooked? Let me describe my latest visit to an audio store nearby. I won’t use the store name here, as that’s not the point. Where I live there is really only one audio store left. That’s strange because I live in a very wealthy community. The Friday after Independence day, me and a friend went to this local audio store. First time back there in years. We are both looking to upgrade. They have 3 audio rooms and two home theater rooms. The hi-end audio room (the store’s term) was an impressive room with extensive acoustic treatments. Mostly McIntosh gear. Sitting in the listening chair, you are looking at 600 watt Mac monoblocks running some nice tower speakers. A massive JL Audio Gotham subwoofer unit sat front and center facing the only listening chair. The McIntosh turntable was spun first. Sloooowww. It took my friend less than five seconds to point out the TT was running slow. The salesman had started to play Pink Floyd-Wish You Were Here, and it was noticeably slow. So the salesman flipped the switch to 45 rpm. Yes, that happened. He figured out it was too fast all on his own. Fiddle and poke at the TT for a bit and then the salesman said- "I’ll let them know it’s broke". Then he said he would just stream some music from a server. Bass! All you could hear was bass, and NOT good bass. He turned the subs down a little when asked, but all you could hear was tubby, muddy bass. The big tower speakers were overpowered by the sub. I really wanted to hear what the main speakers alone sounded like, but could not get the salesman to shut off the subs. On to the mid-fi room (the store’s term). The salesman tried to play us two different turntables. Neither turntable worked. One would not power up, and one was not hooked up to a system at all. Let me point out we didn’t care what source they used. I did say we both run analog and digital sources. Nothing interesting in the mid-fi room the first time through. Next room (no name) was a wall of bookshelf and small towers run by a wide selection of integrated amps. Not bad sound from some. Again, we were told this is “streaming quality audio”. This was the third time he mentioned we were listening to streaming quality audio. I took a guess at what that meant and asked if we could hear higher quality audio. So he took us back to the mid-fi room. He popped in a CD.I could not tell what CD equipment was being used. I think a Rotel integrated was selected. Everything in the cabinet was black faced behind dark glass. Not sure what CD it was either, but since he only had one, I let it go.
Big change! The Paradigm towers were now making good sounds. A big difference from his “streaming quality” demo. Next we switched to a pair of GE Triton 1s. I seriously might get a pair! They make nice sounds. By far the best thing we heard. There was more that happened that contributed to a poor experience, but I will move on.
Here is my point- What would anyone new to the hobby think of that experience? It took two seasoned audio guys pushing the salesman for over an hour before he played anything worth listening to. Would you buy anything from this place. Would you send a newbie in there? Let me know if I'm off base in thinking these audio stores are killing themselves off by the way they do business. Or is it just my misfortune that I have not been in a good dealer showroom in years?
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@elizabeth You nailed it! For every Bill Haley and the Comets there was a Muddy Waters or John Lee Hooker toiling away. I’m old enough to remember that Olivia Newton John and Captain and Tenille had number one hits, tv shows and enjoyed successful careers. Rap isn’t hurting anything or anyone, except maybe for those listening full blast in their Mustang. Jokes aside, people neglect to remember many average home systems when I was a kid were put together with careful attention paid to the recording chain. I had a decent vinyl setup and a decent cassette deck so that I could make tapes for the car. Period. I wasnt going to sit in my room all day, I was going to get out and do something. Much of my vinyl back in the day was played once, the initial playback to record the tape. Would it be fair to say that systems have just morphed? Instead of an average receiver, an average TT and an average analog deck has been replaced with an average laptop, iphone and/or tablet. An there are many young people who have sprung for good earphones/buds. Heck, Audioquest has sold well into the upper six figures of their dragonfly dacs. There are numerous powered speakers which are REALLY good for what you get for far less than $1,000. The hobby is alive and well, people will listen to what they want and its a dead certainty that someone old (I include myself in this group) will find fault with the musical choices of the young. Show me a 17 year old in their parent’s basement, day after day, listening over and over to the nuances between pressings of Ellington’s seminal performance at Newport and I will show you someone who MAY be destined to remain there. |
Millennials are minimalist - minimalism and audiophile do not go too well together. I have a small record/vintage shop (about 1,500 lps which are mostly classic rock) and sell (or at least try to sell) vintage stereo equipment. My best customers are aged 16 thru early 30s and people in their 50s early 60s. The younger folks universally acknowledge that the records I play on vintage stereo equipment in my shop sound much better than on the Crosleys and the like that they use. They rarely buy stereos but buy the crap out of the portables from the 70s (GE Wildcat and such) which do at least sound better than the Crosleys, new suitcase phonographs, etc. So the audiophile hobby is surely dying if considering the younger audience. The friends I have in the age group between my customers' age groups (40s) seem to have no interest in hi-fi. To them Bose is the bomb. Unrelatedly, in my business there is a rule - most everything makes a comeback sales wise in 25-30 years. Lps and cassettes are now hot. I'm stocking up on CDs for 2040 if I'm still around in this business - lol. |
Another factor is that high end is not mobile. A prerequisite to assembling such a system is putting down roots - even if it's just an apartment. In my youth, there were only 2 audio goals: great home and car systems. I wanted both, so I made the plunge into a top-notch home system in 1976, a year after graduating and having a "place." I'm too old to know if this is part of the decline of the "audio hobby," but my hunch is yes. Streaming, blue tooth, miniature components - these things are likely diverting young music enthusiasts away from high end to some degree. Convenience usually leads to compromise. |
There is no one solution to the issues plaguing the audio industry today. Most have been mentioned above, the demographic with money to spend and upwardly mobile are Millennials, most of them have a form of ADHD which stems from their diet, drugs (legal and otherwise) and overstimulation from using computers, pads and and cell phones. Add to that music being made (poorly) and sold today largely isn't fit for consumption on anything that sounds decent. Then you have the relatively overnight disappearance of nearly physical media, coupled with said Millennials belief that everything should be open source (free to them no matter what it is). Say what you want, and I don't mind decent digital audio, but my streaming experiences have all mostly negative. I wouldn't own a streaming device or subscribe to ITunes, Tidal, Pono or any of rest on a bet. Oh, don't forget the s*it show of continually changing formats in ar relatively short time, Vinyl and Cassette to CD was a decent interval change, however SACD, DVD/A, Blu-Ray plus all the high resolution formats were changing almost yearly over the last 20 years. One day a format was considered the last name in reproduction, next year they were not supporting it with music titles or equipment, something else had taken it's place. The same thing happened to home theater, which in and of itself gobbled up many potential customers, yet another continually changing format with all the different surround sound gear and software titles. Here today gone tomorrow. Now we're seeing huge increases (relatively) in purchase and consumption of vinyl cassette and open reel. Don't forget by and large, (educators) haven't been teaching any sort of Art or Music,.. playing instruments, voice, or music appreciation of any type in schools (most anyway) the last 3 decades. I wouldn't call the garbage being sold or streamed music, it's mostly poor quality trite noise that likely does sound better on a phone or in ear buds. it sure doesn't sound good a decent stereo. I'm in my 50's, my dad always had really decent stereo gear and great music, having passed on this legacy to me. I was lucky enough to grow up when decent B&M stores were at their peak. We had The Discerning Ear, Gramophone and Sight and Sound, when I was growing up. Gramophone is where I've bought 90% of my gear, Marantz, VPI, McIntosh, Sony ES, etc. There are not many places like these today where you can go to see and hear what decent gear is about. Most places have a Best Buy, they have Magnolia but my experience there was the 20 somethings working there know/knew nothing about what the sell, which is a sin really, McIntosh used to be particular about the dealers representing them, I wouldn't put my companies gear in Magnolia to be sold,, but hey, you have to make money and to do that you need exposure, especially today in the audio business. Younger people buying today either buy what someone else has they have seen or what is popular/being discussed on Facebook and other social media outlets. That includes, cars, phones, homes, stereos, whatever. They likely didn't have a dad who was in to music and stereo, didn't play an instrument in or out of school growing up and were not exposed to decent sounding music anywhere, no school trips to the symphony. Parents were too busy working trying to survive tha to actually spend real quality time with them.No exposure or experience, things they do have experience and exposure, (cell phones, computers, tablets I-Pods/ITunes) they engage and support. Essentially it boils down to the world is a totally different place today, unfortunately. I was very surprised at this whole analog/vinyl revival over the last decade. More than likely once the fad passes, and it's no longer the cool thing to buy and play records, the next generation will latch on to something else, the next big thing. So buy all the records you can while you can. In another 20 years they may pass into obscurity again, (along with this audio hobby/passion of ours) if we don't pass knowledge, desire and interest in music and audio down to the younger generations. Where it goes is largely up to us, those of us who are supporting this industry today. Once we're gone who knows what will happen to it... |
I am wondering how many of your are in the NYC area. Still lots of dealers to go hear systems. I don't usually bother much these days as I don't hear systems that sound that good there anyway. BUT I am in the hunt for speakers. I currently upgraded to Vandersteen 5As over my previous old model 5s. I got the itch again. So I figure I will venture out to see how things are going. My ears are in the right place again! Happy Listening. |
Music being made these days may not suit some, but I can tell you a lot of it is recorded very well. Go to Tidal and check out there selections and you'll find plenty out there that sounds great and may just help you find a new genre to explore. I know firsthand for me that is the case. I'm having a blast. |
Price hurts the hobby . Pure and simple. I’ve kept most of the gear that I’ve outgrown and managed to keep through various breakups and divorce cleanouts while I’m not home. And i keep shopping for gear. Not hoarding but various sets of speakers all JBL , backup woofers , tweeters on and on incase some things end up hard to find or Double in value as some things already have . Point is when the time comes I’ll be offloading all my extra stuff to my kids for free so i can see them enjoy it and likely have half a clue whats important about good sound. And be able to appreciate the music. Music is an emotional thing for me , i want them to have that. I think it has a pretty good chance still , kids will get sick of the little junky offshore stuff and want to fill a room with sound. |
I disagree that price hurts this hobby. Great value is not likely to be found when buying brand-new, but there’s always opportunities that come up where someone wants to liquidate a perfectly good item, and often for less than 50 cents on the dollar. When I was a teenager and had little in the way of financial responsibilities, I bought a brand-new system piece by piece, saving from money I’d earn from a part time job. Today I have higher expectations, and a lot of financial responsibilities, so selectively buying high value, high performance vintage gear and restoring it to new or better condition puts a smile on my face. It helps that I’m an avid electronics hobbyist with a complete electronics lab at home. I have a system that compares to many $30,000 new systems, and I’ve only spent $3,000. You can do it too. |
@onhwy61 You're mistaking observations of generational trends for denigration. The fact that younger generations don't hear music performed by (acoustic) instruments as much as we did decades ago is just that - fact. How many youth regularly hear a french horn or piano played right in front of them? It's not their fault - it's just the way things have evolved. The question presented is: what's hurting the "audio hobby." If the "audio hobby" includes high fidelity recreation of the sounds of musical instruments in real space, knowledge of those sounds is paramount. Younger folks don't seem to value that experience as much as previous generations - thus the decline of the "hobby." Criticism of changing musical content is another matter - that's been going on for over a century and isn't likely to change. |
In the original post I talked about a bad dealer experience and how that might keep people from learning about better sound. I find so few people who have ever experienced really good hi-fi. Because of that, most scoff at the idea. They don’t think it exists, or place no value in it. Davekacy, you are like me in that music is an emotional experience. The better the sound the deeper my response to it. I joke that music is my therapy (along with some top shelf bourbon). But I’m not really kidding. And let’s face it, more people in this world could use some method to decompress. People everywhere seem angrier these days. New acquaintances find it strange when I say I watch very little TV and instead listen to music most nights. If I tell them I also spend time crate digging or surfing streaming sites to find new music, like poke77 does, their eyes roll back. But when I get them to come listen to my rig things often change. Not always, but often. I play people music that they are familiar with and their reaction is often a treat. It’s fun when people look at you and say “I’ve heard this song a thousand times but never really heard it”. Some have been bitten by the audio bug this way. My point is that exposure to real quality sound has to happen first. Where are people getting that taste these days. |
Keegiam you are spot on. I didn’t realize music programs had been cut so severely in the US, until I read it here and did some research. That’s so unfortunate. If people never get exposed to a wider range of music, played by professional musicians, they have no idea it exists. How are young people exposed to anything other than the popular music of their generation? I think a lot of that happened in our educational programs of the past. Now that this is no longer available in this country it makes sense there is a decline in interest. I bet this is not the case in other countries. |
In the 1960’s, the home of everyone I knew had a console TV/radio/record player. That’s what all we kids played our 7" 45’s and LP’s on. In the summer of ’68, I heard my first component system: a good friend, who had left San Jose in the fall of ’66 for the bohemian beach town of Santa Cruz so as to not have to, like David Crosby, cut his hair (Cupertino High had a dress code, Santa Cruz High did not) had found a transcription turntable (a green felt mat glued onto it’s huge steel platter) at a local radio station in the summer of ’68, and then bought a Scott 299C and Scott 2-way bookshelf loudspeakers to go with it. Best sound I had ever heard! Hearing that system started me down my own hi-fi path, which was kicked into high gear when in 1972 I discovered a little magazine put out by a guy on the other side of the country, who went by the odd name of J. Gordon Holt. Why put the J there if you’re not going to use it, I wondered? Anyway, by the time I was putting together my first big system (ARC electronics, Magneplanar Tympanis, Thorens/SME/Decca) in ’73, my friend had become more interested in the recording of music than it’s reproduction in glorious hi-fi sound. He never progressed beyond the mid-fi level. But he’s got a pretty nice recording studio in Los Angeles ;-) . Anyway, my point is that he and I were the only two people in our circle of friends (almost exclusively musicians) who had anything approaching a hi-fi. Hi-fi fiends have ALWAYS been a tiny minority in the music loving community, which is itself a minority of humanity. Is the current situation so different? |
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/the-music-industry-responds/ One place kids like me are getting exposure to new music is the incredible "KCRW.com". Oldies and mostly new on a limited music broadcast NPR station from Santa Monica. Every day I listen I add something new to my Tidal library. Last night it was "Rewored by Detroit - Funkadelic". |
If you don't have music as a part of your life, then it's like anything else you've missed out on; you don't know it exists as it does. Those class trips to the symphony while in school, Music class 3-5 times a week, taking guitar and piano lessons growing up, all that ingrains music in our lives. How many of the 30 somethings down to single digit students today will be able to boast the same thing? I was lucky I had a father who was into the hifi scene, played in a local band both his brothers, and took the time to get me started playing Guitar, Sax, Percussion, and singing. He also passed down a top shelf cross section of pop/rock music from the 50's and 60's I was able to listen to growing up along with influences of my own age group. Don't forget the huge part radio, especially FM Stereo played in on music especially the better AOR stuff of the 60', 70's even the 80's with new wave/modern music. Radio today is a wasteland compared to what it was 20 short years ago. Even if you do manage to stumble across decent content, the quality is shot to hell. streamed and compressed within an inch of it's life. Radio was a huge influence for music. A few larger colleges still have decent sounding radio stations playing analog and digital sources (actual tape, CD or vinyl), with even a so so tuner you can hear it. Owning a decent tuner today is a waste, but I hold tight to my 10B, MR74 and MR78, among the finest tuners ever made, in case decent music comes back to FM. I used to keep my cassette deck on standby to catch songs from the beginning, making mix tapes as songs would climb the charts, or from Kasey Kasem's top 40 broadcasts. Being an only child, I was fortunate when I was old enough (10) to ask for and receive a decent component stereo piece by piece holiday by holiday. My dad knew most of the crews at the local hi fi shops and taking his time picked me up lightly used gear, including a Marantz 2270 receiver, Technics 1600 TT, ESS speakers and a Teac cassette deck. I was buying imported records with paper route and lawn cutting monies, paying 20$ each in the late 70's early 80's for Beatles, Stones, etc albums, when 20$ (with tax incl.) was a of of money. As I improved in paying guitar, got good grades and my own lawn and leaf service by age 12, I was able to replace and improve the gear in my kit, AND but a load of Maxell cassette, along with imported and domestic records to record and playback. Folks today are more engaged by the cell phone and the computer. IN my day , for a boy, it was music girls and the first car (not in that order) and by 16, you had a car you worked on, paid for, took care of, along with your music and your stereo. As I said I was lucky I had great influences, father and uncles who took me to concerts shows, band practice, I was encouraged to play an instrument, and enjoy it still, playing with others or the music I like. I had access to gear and the money to get my own system at a young age, the way kids get to shelf computers at an early age today. I had friends, that had decent stereos, as did their parents, of whom my best friends dad had all Mc components with Altec VOTT speakers in a 35' by 60', along with a home studio, instruments and more Mc gear which I with my friend his brothers played with or listened to. That is where and when I knew what my ultimate stereo would be built from,..using the best McIntosh gear I could possibly afford. By age 35 that dream came true. I have all that gear and more I've added to over the last 20 years. However, if you have none of these types of experiences in your life music isn't going to mean a lot to you, other than in the car or on ear buds while surfing the net. I connected with local dealers and one sales guy in particular, Elliot from Gramophone Ltd in Timonium Maryland. In 1989 I connected with Elliot and the owners of Gramophone, forging a lifelong relationship that I maintain to this day. Along the way I received a lot of inside information, decent sales discounts most folks don't get (up to 30% on new gear), not to mention heads up when dencent used gear was coming thru for a good price. Elliot has been a good friend, I've bought a lot of gear from him and thru Gramophone. Having a decent local dealer with a relationship/friendship was helpful, but not necessarily essential to my end goal; having the top quality system and components I always wanted. That came about just as much from a desire, determination and drive, working and saving and researching from a young age, having the goal. I knew what I wanted because I was exposed to it in a positive way from a young age. I hung out at the shop, asked questions, engaged, and wasn't treated like a young kid with no money to spend. I was treated like an adult and learned quite a bit growing up. Some dealers didn't like kids in the soundrooms, I was lucky my dad knew all 3 dealers I hung around and they knew my dad was serious and spent money, so I was treated well, even allowed to bring records there and play them when they were not busy. I listened to the records they payed as well, and learned about a lot of good music that way. Because of music, my life today is the richer and better for it. I don't watch much TV, the time on the computer I spend is 90% about audio gear and music or researching about both Playing guitar, drums, keyboards are a hobby, I continue to buy vinyl, and never stopped to tell the truth. I still record, to cassette and open reel, which IMO is still the best sounding format out there period. When I record vinyl to tape, to me it sounds even better, even though it should be exactly the same at best. yea' its expensive, especially recording in 2 track at 7 1/2 ips, but I like the sound. I'm only sorry that younger folks today are missing out on music and HI-Fi. I hope this changes, than vinyl becomes even more popular bringing popularity to quality turntables, speakers and other essential gear for those who want to hear it sound the same "as it was payed live" when in the home. |
Yyzsantabarbara, thanks for posting the link. This article is encouraging. I guess my perception that the the love of music and quality sound is dying was thankfully not true. And the article points out as you do, that younger people are more interested than I knew. I need to try harder to seek out these people. That’s where you learn about new music (new to me, anyway) and great gear that I haven’t heard. |
I think the taste for music in my case is genetic. My folks tell me as a baby I was the most content with a small transistor radio in my crib. I remember as a 10 year+ listening to the radio on a broken single Sony speaker until 6AM because the music was so good late at night. Now I have a toddler of my own (3 years) and I watch him when he comes into my office and just goes crazy when he hears music out of my KEF LS50’s (his future bedroom system). He is a bit like the monkeys in 2001 A Space Odyssey when they discover the monolith. That’s genetics at work I think. A future music lover and maybe an audiophile. Hey it's 1:30 AM and I woke up to hear music on the radio. |
The title of you post sure hit a nerve like a political headline with the forum! I had an initial response because I did not think your title exactly jibed with your experience and I was going ask and comment about hobby vs purchasing. After reading the pages of responses and being the weary hater/pessimist I am, I would like for all to repose the same questions you asked of dealers and apply it to the responses for this thread. What would you think of the experience of a newbie reading this thread? Would that encourage or help start anyone new to this online audiophile community? How about the rest of these threads? Much of your described experience at the store appears similar to how I view the experience of this as well as other forums and websites of so called audiophiles. Also - you went into a store where nothing initially worked but you spent another hour in there anyway? |
In some cases its the dealers that hurt the audio business.. They become disloyal to the brands and MAP policy of the brands they carry.. Soon everyone is cutting prices and undercutting the products value. Soon the other dealers have no reason to carry the product because no one can afford to sell audio as a non-profit.. The bricks and mortar can’t survive on nothing, and thats about the margin that remains, after Amazon and Ebay sellers cut everyones throat.. Most audio manufacturers have policies that forbid auction sites or Amazon. Dealers pop up anyway, and 3rd parties are used to sell at these sites as a shell game to avoid MAP enforcement.. Greed and the resulting fight for survival by retailers has created much of todays environment. When we search for the cheapest price on audio gear, we are really looking for a dealer who is wiling to undercut, and violate the policy to the manufacturer.. The unknowing consumer will buy on price alone, thinking they got a great deal from a great dealer.. Thats not exactly how this works, it is exactly how this doesn’t work, imho.. Dealers undercutting the brands they agree to support and consumers looking for a crazy deal.. Put it together and this is the result. Greed is the issue any way you want to look at it, imho.. I follow the manufacturer policy and don’t cut the throats of the companies, who’s policies that I agreed to follow when signing up with them. My small business will stay small due to never having the cheapest price, but thats ok.. I have low overhead and could cut throats with the best of them. No thanks, I’ll find another business to start, if this one in audio can’t survive and profit honestly.. No one wants to pay more, and many of the online, cut throat dealers have no loyalty to the brands.. They undercut the bricks and motor dealers, they undercut the dealers who actually support the companies they carry, by honoring the policies. The undercut the companies who’s brand they carry.. Is a dealer thats undercutting the companies product, by violating the policy they agreed to, worth the cheap price? Thats the buyers choice and we have seen the long term results. Unless you are in a major city, the dealers are gone.. If people are unaware of this, or just don’t care, with price being the only priority. Then the decline will continue and we can eat, sleep and work for Amazon or Ebay in the future.. Its a free market but people should be educated.. We can brag and take pleasure in the cut throat deal we made, but also realize that those same dealers continue to drive nails into the coffin of this industry. Take those killer deals and smile.. Just don’t be surprised when you watch the continued decline of manufactures as their brands get devalued by the dealers who supposedly support them. Manufactures request dealers to report violators to MAP policies.. I report them, the manufacturer knocks them down and another pops up.. Kind of like a game you may remember as a kid. Wack one and another pops up.. Some dealers are the problem and unknowing customers help drive the industry into the ground jumping on the greed bandwagon.. It is what it is, but we can’t have it both ways. Just another point of view, Vinyl.. Just a humble opinion so no need for anyone to get offended.. Unless your a cut throat dealer, I don’t mind offending you! Lol.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TPCbmzpkM4 |
@jimclarkstereo, Good points! I used to try to support my local dealer, and I felt we had a good working relationship. But then came the internet and the 50 mile round journey seemed excessive. Laziness / greed were both factors in my online buying re that particular dealer. Then there was also the fact that I wanted move beyond the Linn/Naim paradigm... |
I seem to have hit a nerve with some of you. Toolfan69, you are right that this post would not endear a newcomer to this hobby. I wasn’t trying to be negative about the hobby. I did not anticipate how far ranging the responses would be. I do think it has been a valuable discussion and I appreciate all the opinions and information that has been offered here. That should have positive value to anyone- new or veteran. In my original post I wanted to point out that it’s just plain hard to hear quality audio these days. And hard to find an audio dealer that offers a good experience. Maybe that’s just in my area. But to me that’s typically what gets people interested- good sounding audio and someone knowledgeable to help guide you. Yes, I did stick around that dealer trying to learn what they carry and hear new equipment. I’m not new to the hobby and I knew the gear in that store was quality stuff, even if not demo’d to its full advantage. But if I WAS new, I felt the experience would have been negative and that concerned me. Thus the post. I didn’t name the dealer. I’m not mad at them or trying to hurt their business. Jimclarkstereo, when I do buy, I support any dealer I’ve worked with. I’m still interested in those Golden Ear Triton Ones I heard there. If I buy them it will be from that dealer. I will try to seek out the owner if I go back there. As I mentioned, I did find a great dealer about an hour from here. It’s far, but he carries PMC, and those sound great as well. Buying from him is very likely. Getting the lowest price won’t be the driver in my decision but I appreciate and respect your points on the subject. I want to be able to shop at quality audio dealers and experience new gear. I don’t want B&M stores to disappear. |
@vinylfan62, it’s definitely not writing in the wall time for all brick and mortar stores. Some of them are still thriving although it seems as the location is still the all important factor. Where I live the nearest dealer is in the next city, some 20 miles away. Yet at the same time we have a plethora of used car dealers - at least 2 dozen of them - probably a lot more. At least one each for Ford, Vauxhall, Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, BMW, Mercedes etc etc. Hi-Fi dealing is not the same as selling cars for obvious reasons such as necessity and built in obsolescence etc but there must some general principles that help turnover and sales. Perhaps some friendly dealers might be willing to share some of their secrets of success here? New startups can probably use all the knowledge they can get their hands on in this very high risk business. |
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I would never send a "newbie" into an audio retailer without someone in the "know" with them. The original poster’s experience is what I have witnessed also. Sales people sitting around doing nothing when there are no optimized setups. All lazy streaming demo’s, one CD player in the whole place if at all etc etc. |
Retail is a problem though my experience is less that they are inept and more that they are jerks. One guy guy told me my music sucked which is why it didn’t sound good on the speakers I was demoing. Another expounded for 45 minutes on why speakers should be so neutral. Another couldn’t believe I like a less expensive speaker in a better pairing than one that was bright and fatiguing. retail is awful. but worse, go out to audiophiles North America on facebook and say you want an entry level tube amp and then 30 people tell you that you’re an idiot for wanting noisy tube gear. Basically, unhelpful, know-it-all audiophiles who are jerks to anyone who doesn’t subscribe to their explicit view of good sound. That is what I think the problem is. |
I wouldn't worry too much about the condition of audio. Each passing generation decries what is lacking in the next. Youth are getting their music---SUV sound systems have 6-10 speakers and sound pretty good. I Phones and ear buds aren't half bad. Even through the phone's speakers, the sound seems to be all there on a small scale. Headphone audio is very affordable, with great sound. Being out of doors and traveling seems more important now than ever for young folks. Big-scale audio is not the priority of youth today in the US. Has the younger market shifted to Europe and Asia? |
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IMO, the only thing that would truly hurt the audio hobby would be for artists to stop making good music. Playback options and preferences will change and yesterday's gear may become obsolete but the audio hobby will continue to thrive.....maybe just not as we have known it. Regarding your question, Where else can newbies go to get started in this hobby.I would answer, the same place most folks go to learn about anything these days, the internet, at least as a starting point. You will learn way more than at any dealer. However, at some point you are going to need to physically see and hear what you have been reading about so, if you are lucky enough to have a good audio dealer nearby then go visit, otherwise, go to an audio show where there will be a wide range of equipment to see and hear. |
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I can assume from this thread that few here actually know any young people, or the fact that they often pack venues like Red Rocks to see actual musicians (my daughter lives in Denver, and she and her friends all seem to be serious live music fans). My stepson’s company got a Grammy for a background sound reduction system used on Deadliest Catch, among other shows, and he’s a Yale educated musician/computer science professional doing ACTUAL things, unlike snarky old Kaitty’s imaginary "insider" career. The kids have different tastes, less money generally due to the greed driven habits of previous generations driving up rent costs, but they’re smarter and more generous than what’s generally represented around here. |
Glennewdick: what are the (6) brands that you see worldwide ? I’m shocked, as there are hundreds available. Geoffkait: AA still swings-in w/ 30,000+ hits and other places like AudioShark are growing every year. Based on the comments here, audio is not hurting. 20-35 year-olds have their personal (and car) audio, while people 35+ can explore quality home-audio. From established brands no less, even our reviewers are experienced ! And we couldn’t say (either one) of these things in the 1950s and 60s. That said, it’s not common to be an audiophile, after age 35. Prices are high, sound-quality still suffers and a culture intense on TV-sports and home-cinema makes it worse. Still, (if) disposable income rises and sound-at-home improves, there could be a shift to stereo equipment. Retro-looks are returning and it offers a break from the dis-orientated 4-hour NFL game (ratings are dropping).. |
@jafreeman, agree totally - it evolves and moves to satisfy different demands. Times change and needs and demands change. Money will follow demand. Headphones and Bluetooth speakers bring unprecedented levels of quality and portability. YouTube and streaming (and the rest) bring unprecedented levels of accessibility. In these days of little genuine free time this must surely be a good thing, especially for the millions and millions of commuters worldwide. As for home systems, there's no reason why they won't remain popular - especially when taking into account population demographics. Having plenty of time to listen to high quality playback can easily become something to look forward to as well as sharing your experiences online with others as retirement looms. Audiophile communities are going strong all over the place. I've recently noticed that Monopulse have a considerable following in Norway of all places! https://www.hifisentralen.no/forumet/vennetra-der-hifimerker/19438-monopulse-80.html When it comes to the Audiophile capital of the world, wasn't Japan always at or very near the top of the list? Is this still the case? What about the growing economies of China and India? The sheer number of emerging enthusiasts must boggle the imagination. Sure it often looks as if things could be better but maybe they already are? |