What is going on here? Streamer or DAC?

I had similar problems when I was on wifi.  I always make getting off of wifi one of my strongest recommendations.

Jerry

I read a tip from Qobuz that there’s some kinda buffer or something that can be cleared out that can help fix some performance issues so might be worth exploring.  Personally I’d use this as an excuse to upgrade to a better separate streamer and DAC as things have improved significantly over the past 8 years, but that’s me.  Hope this helps, and best of luck.

Use a free phone/laptop app, usually called Wifi analyzer or something like that to check that your Wifi broadcast is on an isolated channel and has strong reception. Often times routers bunch up on the first channel, which later gets congested with more neighbors.  This can definitely lead to drop-outs, but haven't heard of this causing entire streamers to hang up.

Based on what you are describing it sounds like you have some sort of power supply issue. If you have a wall wart, replace it. If your house is in heavy heat mode it may be so dry you are having static issues and increasing the humidity may help, especially if the issues happen after you touch it.  While a good conditioner like a Furman with LiFT and SMP can protect you from surges, it's possible this issue is an aging power supply.

I should have been more clear. It sounds like a power supply or static electricity problem could be the root causes. Not exactly the same thing. A power supply issue means the parts responsible for maintaining the DC voltages constant are not. A static electricity issue can happen from any of the delicate silicon parts like the CPU which runs it, becoming too sensitive, or having been shocked too often.

Good info. Separate streamer and DAC is exactly where I’m thinking of going. Looking for info on what is happening to help me decide which to replace first.  

Note the OP mentioned he’s experiencing this with both Wi-Fi and wired configurations. 

It could also be some other streamer component going bad like a RAM module, the storage for the OS, or the CPU itself.

It can be hard to narrow down the culprit unless you can log into the operating system remotely, e.g. using something like ssh or PuTTY or swap out the power brick / wall wart.

There’s no wall wart, but here’s what I can do  ( just thought of this). I have a second system with a newer all in one.  Ill use the new as a streamer and the old as a DAC and see what happens, then switch ‘em. 
new streamer/old DAC: problems? Then it’s the DAC

old streamer/new DAC: problems? The it’s the streamer

Problems either way? Then it’s the power supply or network

no problems either way? Anybody’s guess  

I’ll report back in a few days  

Sounds like a good plan.

@soix thanks for pointing out my poor reading effort.

Are you using Roon or native Qobuz?  I had a simular problem Roon my Roon database on my laptop which was the only wireless component in my music stream.  I went to a dedicated music server (SGC i5) feeding my streamer/DAC combo.  The Roon database (metadata) ran on the music server and the Roon application runs on my MacBook, iPad and iPhone.  All interrupts, lags, delays went away.  You might have a similar issue. The problems I was having came and went, songs would stop/start etc.  It is a buffering Internet latency issue. What type of streamer are you using?  

Are you using Roon or native Qobuz?  I had a simular problem Roon my Roon database on my laptop which was the only wireless component in my music stream.  I went to a dedicated music server (SGC i5) feeding my streamer/DAC combo.  The Roon database (metadata) ran on the music server and the Roon application runs on my MacBook, iPad and iPhone.  All interrupts, lags, delays went away.  You might have a similar issue. The problems I was having came and went, songs would stop/start etc.  It is a buffering Internet latency issue. What type of streamer are you using?  

Streamers are basically computers and need to be rebooted once in a while. About once a week, I reboot my modem, router, tv, streamer and dac and haven’t had a problem in years.

@tomaswv

Maybe one every few weeks/months, gets stuck repeating one note sort of like a damaged record. When this happens, no control via remote or the unit itself. Have to unplug to get it to stop. Sometimes it self corrects when plugging back in, sometimes have to hard reset.

based solely on the above, assuming your network isn’t an issue, the problem you’re describing is a streamer issue. Most likely the processor is on its way out.

Is there a digital input on the unit…coax or optical? If so, my suggestion would be to order a WiiM pro from Amazon and using it as streamer only, test it out by driving the DAC section via coax or toslink. You can send back the WiiM when done. But this test will rule out the DAC…or highlight it as a culprit.

audphile1

3,485 posts

01-30-2024 at 12:09pm 

@tomaswv

order a WiiM pro from Amazon and using it as streamer only, test it out by driving the DAC section via coax or toslink. You can send back the WiiM when done. But this test will rule out the DAC…or highlight it as a culprit.

Perhaps none of my business, but advising someone to order a WiiM unit they’ve no intention to keep, only to ride the distributor’s return policy after using said unit for reasons other than why it’s sold, repeated among threads by you, @audphile1 - that is not an ethical suggestion regardless of how one feels about Amazon, and ultimately hits the streamer manufacturer. Bad call IMO and, generally speaking, among business ethics. “Enjoy the music” shouldn’t include taking free rides in bad faith. At the very least quit suggesting a particular company to abuse?

Why not share what brand and model you have? Perhaps others have had similar exp with it and diagnosed the issue? 

Is it an indication that there are no issues when streaming video as per OP?

OP

you didn’t mention the brand of your current gear, but I had a very similar problem to yours with a Bluesound Node2 that was the same vintage as yours, and of course out of warranty.  Bluesound wasn’t helpful after a Herculean effort to get a response, and I was using Ethernet and had no other equipment issues.  I finally moved off Bluesound 

FWIW I had skipping, lags when I had a Cambridge CXN V2 into my Venus II DAC. When I switched to the Aurender N200 which cache's into internal memory that problem disappeared. 

It does not make any difference if the issue with your current streamer/DAC is the streamer or the DAC part of the device. If the device is faulty, then it needs to be replaced or repaired.  If you really want to continue using your old device, you could try a different power supply.

Since 2016, streamers and streamer/DAC’s have improved a a lot.  You can certainly get better sound quality if you get a separate streamer and DAC. It important to note that there are plenty of new streamer/DAC’s that will sound better than your 2016 streamer/DAC, whatever that is.  There is nothing wrong with keeping things simple. Good luck finding your new streamer setup.

The old unit is Cambridge 851n. I’ve been happy with the sound and the streammagic app. The new unit (in my second system) is Cambridge Evo 75. 
my main system is the 851n (with NAS attached) to a Bel Canto pre5 to Bel Canto 500m monoblocks to Dali Mentor 6 speakers.  No issues when streaming from the NAS.  I will use the Evo 75 a streamer to the 851 DAC and see if the problems go away. 

Follow up question — does the problem only occur when streaming Qobuz?

The plot thickens.  Yes, only when streaming Qobuz, though that’s all I stream. Files from NAS play fine as does internet radio and audio from tv (optical in).  

thought I had a theory, now not so sure. 
 

hooked up the old streamer to the new DAC (not able to do it the other way round). Played 20-30 songs perfectly, no stutter start. Aha, says I, it is the DAC!  I then notice that the old streamer is no longer displaying album art (nor is the new one). Aha, it IS the DAC, unable to handle th le album art at the start of each song. I figure, the old streamer realizes there is a digital out so it’s doesn’t send the art. 

but then I decided to revert to original set up to prove the case. The art STILL doesn’t display, and everything works perfectly. Turn old streamer off and on, still no art. Unplug it plug it back in, art is back.  And, it seems to be working perfectly.  
 

so I’m confused. I unplugged it yesterday when it hung up and the art was back and the problems were back also. 
 

so I think the DAC can’t handle the input, but it seems to be doing so now. Will watch for next few days and report back. 

As per Qobuz I’d still go into their menu and empty whatever buffer they were talking about just to rule that out and possibly avoid future issues — couldn’t hurt and only takes a few minutes.  The issues they mentioned from the buffer being near full were, as I recall, very similar to what you’re experiencing, which is why I’m bringing it up again.  

I’ve done that. I have deactivated importing so it doesn’t save anything.  This is on the Qobuz app.  When I go to Qobuz via Cambridge streammagic app, I don’t see where there is a cache and it doesn’t import to Cambridge. 

So you went into Storage in Settings and clicked “Delete music in cache” at the bottom?  I think that’s what Qobuz was talking about and sounds like that’s what you did.  Again, best of luck in figuring this annoying thing out — you have my deepest sympathy cause I absolutely hate troubleshooting stuff like this.

Yes. That is what I did, but the catch was aredynety because I had previously disabled the storage. I’ve started maybe fifty songs so far with no stutter starts. Fingers crossed. 

But the cache was already empty…

maybe it needed cleared out anyway then I rebooted before anything was streamed.  Maybe a clean handshake kind of deal?

So here is the update. After cleaning out Qobuz cache and rebooting the Cambridge as described above, I believe the stutter starting has gone away. I say I believe because I thought it might have happened once or twice when I wasn’t paying strict attention. In any case, it feels fixed to me. What isn’t fixed is the occasional shut down restart of the Cambridge 851n. Has happened three times since Jan 30. Music stops, I look up and see the unit restarting.  I then have to go out of the stream magic app, go back in and everything is fine. Is this evidence of a failing power supply?

Well, as a final follow up here, I believe the thing is just kaput.  Probably a power supply failing, or possibly the streamer.  I sent a query in to Cambridge and I have to say I was impressed— they asked several follow up questions before concluding that the 851n would need service or replacement. They noted the warranty period was long past but did offer a trade in program where they would give me some credit towards a new purchase.  That was nice, and I am looking at the new CXN100 but fear it is more of a CXN replacement. I’ve heard those before in a buddy’s system and I also have a EVO 75 in a second system. Those sound very good but clearly the 851n sounds better. Besides, I’m going to try to get to Axpona this year…

thanks for all the comments and suggestions.