What DAC upgrade made you say “DAMN, that sounds SO MUCH better than my last DAC”?
As the title suggests, what was your overall system and DAC at the point where you bought only a new DAC and said “DAMN, that sounds SO MUCH better than my last DAC”?
I’m a novice and so many people talk about improvements from new equipment as if they were only listening to varying degrees of static until they bought more and more new equipment which added up to them finally being presented with music. It’s like Salome and the seven veils. But when does the last veil get peeled away?
So what system did you have and what DAC did you swap in that made you say “DAMN!!!!”?
I guess I’m looking for night and day differences, not gradual progressions……
I have about $10k’s worth of components in my system. After getting everything else up and running on the performance levels I was looking for, I turned to the last piece of the puzzle, the DAC. I’d been rather happy with an EVS-modified Oppo 103 for some yrs, but wanted to see if I could do better.
Started with a Denifrips Pontus (original version). Liked it ok, except that low-level detail seemed a little reticent and I recall just not being able to get sufficient tonal color out of the thing. It sorta did that "live" sound thing pretty well, which may be the thing these days in Southeast Asia, I’m supposing, but I was intentionally looking for color and hopefully without the attendant "veil" that can come with it (as is sometimes the case with McInntosh gear). Sold it after a few months.
Next up, I tried a Berkely Audio Design, Alpha V2 DAC. Although I ended up passing on this DAC as well, this did indeed have STUNNING amounts of color - just glorious - and by such a huge margin it wasn’t even funny. Almost TOO much color - something I didn’t think would be possible. A rather nice, if tightly defined, sound field, as well. Although resolution was quite good, where it really ended up letting me down was in the bass, particularly the midbass and low end. It just...well..sat there, like a bump on a log. The bass seemed strong enough and grippy, but inspite of threatening the get up and boogie at some point, it just never actually got around to it - it just refused to **move**. Me being a bass fan, that was deal breaker. I sold it after a year. A heartbreaking farewell, as I recall.
Next, on a tip from a friend in the pro industry, I tried my current DAC, a Burl Audio B2 Bomber DAC. This one is made in Calif. by the pro’s for the pro’s. It is what’s known as a "monitoring DAC". That is, it’s intentionally designed to neither gussy anything up about the sound or presentation, or sweep anything under the rug, so that a pro can accurately track the mix down process. It just so happens that this DAC is gloriously musical at the same time. And tonal color happened to be spot on across the range, not just ’here or there’. Gobs of transparency. In this DAC, there are No capacitors in the signal path - very unusual. So the bass is extremely extended, but also very o-p-e-n - the dead opposite of the prior DAC. And complete realism across the board...and with magic, soul, space and all that good stuff...
I’ve been gobsmacked with this DAC for more than a year now. The B2 is Never going Anywhere from here. If it should ever die, I’ll just get another one(!). Very much night and day for me on this DAC.
"I have about $10k’s worth of components in my system". So somehow this makes you qualified to write DAC reviews? So it seems? None of us have any frame of reference!
DAC’s are like ears everyone has at least one. I still have my old MSB Nelson DAC from the 90's, it actually sounds really good still.
“I guess I’m looking for night and day differences, not gradual progressions……”
OP, it would be helpful to know your current system and budget for DAC. Every system is different, you’re probably not going to buy Berkely Audio Design, Alpha V2 DAC to pair with Node 2i :-)
One suggestion is to focus on all parts of the digital signal path instead of just the DAC. You can get audible improvements from each of these changes that adds up. I’ve heard clear and immediate improvements from:
1. Switching to a streamer from a PC laptop or iPhone 2. Switching from WiFi to an Ethernet connection to the streamer 3. Going to a Supra Cat 8 Ethernet cable from an AmazonBasics Cat 6 cable 4. Listening to local files versus streamed files via Qobuz
Other changes that made a noticeable difference though smaller than the effect from the changes listed above:
5. Power cable on my DAC 6. USB cable between my streamer and DAC 7. Audioquest Jitterbug noise filter between my streamer and the USB cable
These are the DACs I’ve listened to in the past year in my system unless otherwise noted:
Audioquest Dragonfly Red
Rega DAC
Denafrips Ares II
Simaudio Moon 280D (at a dealer)
Chord Qutest
Denafrips Pontus II
Chord Hugo TT / MScaler (at a dealer)
They all sound different. The ones I would not want in my system are the Rega DAC, Simaudio Moon 280D and the Chord Hugo TT / MScaler. The Pontus II sounds best to me in my system.
Review of the Burl B2 Bomber: https://tapeop.com/reviews/gear/79/b2-bomber-adc-dac/ I confess that this seems really geared to mastering/recording engineers, and I have little idea what they are talking about on a technical level. Seems good though!
I recently upgraded from a Benchmark DAC3 HGC to a Lampizator Baltic 3. Given the Baltic 3 is 3X the price I expected an uptick in performance but I will say it way exceeded my expectations. First off, the B3 provides a very different presentation. I don't have the colorful adjectives to describe it but somehow there is more music and seemingly a dimension that allows you to see into the music. Being a tube based DAC I was concerned that pairing it with my tube based preamp that it might sound slow or syrupy. But that simply isn't the case, the B3 is extremely well balanced and sounds beautiful at low volume but it can jump, rock and boogie if you are up for some excitement.
when i found the 'on' switch on my denafrips terminator... i said "damn that sounds sooooo much better than my last dac", a chord dac that i blew 4 grand on
i could never find the damn on switch on that chord hugo tt2 - as a result, i always felt that one lacked air and impact and truth of timbre... the brits make such crap these days 😵💫😵💫😵💫
I went from using the DAC in my Oppo 105 to a Mytek Manhattan I. This may have been the sun ale biggest upgrade I ever made. Interestingly both DACS used the same ESS Sabre Chip
My most recent "Holy S?!T" moment was the move from a Chord Hugo 2 to a Weiss 501 during a customer demo. The Weiss was new to me and I use the Hugo 2 all the time. These are not in the same price class (Hugo 2 and 2Go are $3800 and the Weiss 501 is $9k) but there are times when you make a change and the difference is subtle and you aren't certain how much of an impact one DAC had vs. another. The Weiss is very warm and almost analog sounding while the Chord sounds a bit colder. Not bad just very different presentations.
I have owned many DACs. Starting at the ~$1K range and then higher: Ayre QB-9, Sim Moon 650D with the add on $8K power supply, Schiit Gungnir multibit, Schiit Yggi, upgraded Ayre QB-9 2020, Audio Research CD9Se, and Berkeley Alpha 3. The most profound was the Audio Research CD9se.
My dealer brought over a Audio Research 160s amp for me to audition. Without me asking he also brought over a ARC CD9se (DAC with transport). He said, “you should try this”. He knows me well and we have similar tastes… I have the system and space he would really like to own. I was almost a little annoyed. I could barely afford the amp, I was very happy with my then current Sim Moon 650D (with extra power supply $17K). I auditioned the amp. It was clearly a winner. So, I reluctantly hauled out the CD9se. I felt obligated to at least be able to articulate why I didn’t want it. I hooked it up to my streamer. Literally 2 seconds listening… to get to “wholly cow”. And another 10 of 15 seconds to conclude he just sold me one… and damn, where am I going to get the $17K for this thing?
There was absolutely no question I had to buy the DAC. It was so natural, and detailed, and real. It completely transformed my system, in all good ways. So, is it my last DAC? Well, maybe. My audio guy really likes my system and space and wanted to test the Berkeley Alpha 3 (22K) he just started carrying. So he came over and we spent the afternoon with it. He left it for a couple weeks. I was able to use both DACs, volume leveled and switch back and forth. The difference was minuscule… but the ARC was a bit warmer (tiny… itsy bitsy), but in my mind slightly better.
So, “Damn, that is so much better than my last DAC”. Yes.
Well of course I would never start a sentence with that particular word... i am very impressed with my tambaqui after having many well regarded dacs over the years. But I do say “WOW” when I play a record. Just something on vinyl with a nice setup that digital misses. It is almost as if there is another layer of detail that digital misses.
The very new line to the U.S from Underwood Wally is Audio GD , I recently bought their New totally redesigned line as of late April 2021 the R8 MK2. it is a very beefy 25 lbs using 3 Rcore transformers operating in pure class A on the analog stages, and servo controlled FPGA on the digital end ,full R2R dac with 5 user adjustments . At $2k it’s class leading IMO and I have owned Denafrips Pontus 2 , Schiit Yggsdrasil 2, Belcanto , Lampi Amber 3 it took 500 hours to fully settle in having dual Femto clocks , and New firmware port on back for future upgrades which is very good to know.
@ivan_nosnibor Isn’t the Burl solely a A-D dac for mastering purposes? Or does it convert both ways, that wasn’t clear to me. I use the RME-ADI-FS with the Teddy Pardo power supply connected by a Synergistic Research Atmosphere Reference USB cable and balanced SR Atmosphere Level 2 cables going into my Octave V70 Class A. The RME is stunning to me and my Audrivana files.
Two years ago going from the entry Naim streamer to the dCS Bartok I traded fun for accuracy. It left me scratching my head and holding my empty wallet, knowing I was hearing more of the recording, but it wasn't really that enthralling. After nine months with the Bartok I bought a used dCS Vivaldi stack. I was pretty happy as it was more in all the good ways better than the Bartok (however, clearly the family sound), but I was holding my empty wallet again, thinking "I was expecting more". It was still not the sound I envisioned. I bought that Vivaldi stack used and once I got it running I listened for a few weeks, then dug out the manuals and started through the settings. I realized that a software setting was set in which the clock was turned on and wired correctly, but the clock was not engaged. I changed the setting and that was when I had my WOW moment. I get it now. I have been relentless in my search for that "liveish" sound I believed digital could produce. I have it now and I am extremely happy. It just costs a lot of money right now to get "that sound".
+1@audiosaurusrex, that's a tough one. I also use the RME ADI2 Dac Fs with Teddy Pardo PS. It was my this is what I'm looking for moment. I tried a few dacs ranging from 1k to 5k and this has been the best. Audio mirror, SW1X Dac, Aurender, Chord TT2, too name a few. The RME for about 1100$ beats them all in my system. Teddy Pardo PS about 400$ if I remember. Using a Kimber Kables D60 digital coax between streamer and Dac.
Hi, I used a Bryson BDA-1 for a number of years and enjoyed it. About 4 months ago I bought a used Museatex Bidat and sent it to Calgary to have upgraded by John Wright. After breaking it in on my second system (4 weeks) I brought it into my main one to see how it fared against the Bryson. Your words “night and day” are very appropriate. I have never heard my system sounding better. By far the best dac I have ever had.
Upgraded from Pro-ject Pre Box S2 Digital to PS Audio Directstream with the Windom firmware. A stunning difference in every aspect. But then with the latest firmware update to Sunlight and the addition of a Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2 in front of it I couldn't be happier. Playing directly into a Pass Labs XA30.5 into Tekton Pendragons.
Went from a very good Benchmark Dac to Mark Levinson preamp with built in Precision Link Dac and wow oh wow the difference from before is amazing. Also a second to the Mytek Manhattan I had for awhile with an Ayre preamp before my dealer sold me the Levinson pre/Dac combo. Mytek was very very good for the money. I hear Vivaldi very good.
The most analog sounding dac I've had in my system is the wyred for sound 10th anniversary dac. One of the reviewers put it up against his VPI turntable with a $5,000 Japanese cartridge and he said it was every bit as analog. And I totally agree. It's not cheap though, it's $4,500 US, but it beats many much more expensive dacs.
I have no analog action to compare my digital to, but each step in my dac journey has brought me closer to 3D real-deal stage and pure color that I imagine good analog brings. Qutest with Pardo power supply, then Holo May L2, then Wells Audio Cipher, then Lampizator Atlantic TRP. Each time I just knew I was getting closer to nirvana, but the Lampizator was just a no-brainer. Just fuller richer bolder more real than your regular dac and even the excellent cipher, at least in my room and system. R2R, sigma delta, blah blah blah. Just listen to a Lampizator. I’m sure there’s better out there, but I don’t have $20k or more.
Apologies to everyone right off the bat here - I do Not want to hijack this thread, but there are some details that will be important should anyone consider buying this DAC that should be known, so I apologize in advance for the lengthy infomercial. Skip now if you’re not interested.
@audiosaurusrex, Sorry for the late response, there are actually 2 physically different B2 Bombers: the ADC and also a DAC version. Professionally, they’re meant to be used together to go from recording phase (ADC) to mix-down phase (DAC). Both retail for the same price, $2450. Burl typically runs a sale twice a year, once in mid summer and again before Christmas when they are known to take off roughly $200-250. I bought my DAC used and paid $1900 delivered. Used prices don’t discount very much with these DAC’s, their resale value is always high and sometimes you have to be patient for one to become available, but invariably they seem to show up.
There are more than 2 versions of the DAC, but for some reason Burl does not use any nomenclature at all to distinguish between them, so you have to confirm which version before ordering, whether from online retailers, used from individuals or from Burl itself. One version includes a Toslink input and analog gain controls for each channel of the XLR output stage (tiny screwdriver adjust) and also, among the ones with the Toslink/gain control versions, there is a version that includes a Dante card for clocking (pro use only) that bumps the price up a couple hundred bucks or so, so don’t end up paying for that one. Looking at a pic of the rear panel will tell you mostly what you need to know about the individual DAC you’re looking at.
One last consideration is that this DAC uses twin class-A, discrete op-amps for the analog output stage. The op-amps are in fact user replaceable, they are not soldered into place. Burl currently makes 2 versions of op-amps: BOPA1, and BOPA8. This DAC debuted on the market in 2011 (it’s DAC chip, incidentally, was chosen at the time strictly for its sound quality alone, rather than for the most recent design or availability vs pricing...it still sounds great even after all this time. My friend in the industry, who is also an audiophile, tells me he thinks this is the best-sounding PCM DAC in existence). But, the first op-amp, the BOPA1, gave the B2 a reputation for being the most analog-like - (think tape rather than vinyl) sounding DAC available...complete with something of that nice, tonal density (despite having nice separation of instruments) that good, analog tape playback is known for. The 2nd one, the BOPA8 was meant to ’modernize’ the sound a bit and give things a less ’identifiably’ analogish sound and go for something more neutral - straddling between the best analog and the best digital type of sound.
The BOPA8 has been the production variant for some years now, but if at any time you wanted to swap out and try the other, you would just order the op-amps from Burl and try them yourself. I have the BOPA8 version and it sounds so good to me that I don’t really have any great interest in trying the BOPA1, unless it were out of sheer curiosity or something. Burl sells the BOPA1 for like $50 and the BOPA8 for like $80, but I can’t recall at the moment if that was each or for a pair - you need 2, one for each channel. Contact Burl and they can tell you.
pip_helix What DAC upgrade made you say “DAMN, that sounds SO MUCH better than my last DAC”?
For converting PCM RedBook 16/44 24/96 or DXD Going from "chip based" R2R dacs eg: tda1541, pcm1702, pcm1704 etc, then going to MSB’s "discrete" R2R dac. Just like the best analog rig but with far better channel separation from top to bottom, and no noise.
I am embarrassed it was going to a simple design, went from a Simaudio 280D to a Border Patrol SEi. Simplicity at it finest zero upsampling just great sound and well under what may have spent here.
Also added a Bel Canto 2.7 to my main system and rather enjoy that also.
I went from a Meridian Media Source 600, which was an awesome DAC that I have only good things to say about, to a Brinkmann Nyquist, which is the last DAC I’ll own. My first mode of listening is analog, and the Nyquist does a fine job of making digital enjoyable.
I've a DCS Bartok, which is a great piece of gear. Just auditioned the new Linn Klimax DSM. Holy mother of god what a difference. I was just blown away. It sounds like a LP12, so natural and authentic. No idea where I'm going to scrounge up the cash for one, but it is going to happen.
I've had the Holo May Kitsune dac for about seven months and very satisfied. Everything that I input including a streamer, OPPO 203 (even SACD) and tv optical perform great. They haven't skimped on anything and the ability to trim the resistors on the fly is a great idea.
If i may make two comments to @mattmiller: 1. Actually, while one can spend a lot on a system and get poor results it is quite relevant if a user has a highly resolving system vs. less so. And $10k in a system by high end standards is -- choke -- not a lot. Some of these DACs cost that. and all systems are links in a chain.
2. I too have an old MSB gold nelson that i got from Mark 20 odd years ago. Its a pretty solid DAC even today. Mine has both re-designed and vastly better power supplies (my own) and a USB interface with isolation, independent power, and re-clocking (also my own). This steps it up several notches. yet it is still not the equal of my other, mostly newer DACs. but that is a story that i don’t have time to type at the moment.
But yea, Mark was way ahead for the money back then. His new R2R stuff, OTOH i believe starts at around $20k. Gulp.
and to @joey_v (apparently i got that wrong): I agree the EMM is excellent. I recently heard it in one of the best systems I’ve every heard. One of those systems that just vanished. No drama, not "impressive". I just listened to music. As i recall not cheap.
I have an Esoteric K-01xd with the best FPGA programmable DAC (64 bit) that I have heard...beats both the best DCS and MSB Tech DACs in my system. I think that the context of the other components in the system as well as what you listen to is of paramount importance. Hard to say whether a single component in isolation will do - it depends on source, line quality, cabling, speakers (or headphones) and everything else...
LUMIN T2. I am a relative beginner as well. I started using the stock DAC on the Hegel H390 but wanted something more. That *Damm, that’s good* feeling. Quite a few folks on the Roon forum had mentioned the Lumin T2. I live in a relatively remote area so took a chance and ordered one cold. The T2 takes about 2 weeks to break in but from the moment I first heard it, I was like *DAMM, that is amazing*. Feels like every instrument is being separately unfolded but somehow part of a unified sound. Just my 2¢. Good luck.
“I have an Esoteric K-01xd with the best FPGA programmable DAC (64 bit) that I have heard...beats both the best DCS and MSB Tech DACs in my system.” @gerryah930,
Can you please elaborate on ‘best DCS and MSB’ since they have different tiers of reference. I would like to know which models you’ve tried that were bested by K-01xd?
I was very pleased with my Denafrips Ares II. But when I added a network bridge using a Pi2AES, it took it to another place. Quiet wonderful and the very thing you are looking for. ;)
I just watched a YTV review of the
Musician Aquarius DAC - Technically Impressive R-2R Sound While I am very interested in the Audio GD, this is much smaller, rack friendly "Only" $2800 and comes in white or black https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5pTPCtNJ6M&t=905s
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