Warm up time for amps
It is true that one should let the oil warm up in audio gear before running it at high revs...also, once you let a Jaguar out and it gets up to speed it takes several zoo workers to find it and get it back. I do think tube gear changes a little during maybe the first hour of being on, but otherwise is listenable pretty much immediately...my gear goes on as background music to my morning routine and during "active" listening times it's all been warmed plenty. |
dobnbav45 posts
I did not say a cooling fan - I wrote "I could install fan heaters" And I did not write about divesting in an amp because I am ignorant about how things work. And my Jaguar doesn't need a warm up period, but then I am not driving it at 120 mile per hour (immediately or otherwise). So well done there! But an answer is still maybe a bit unclear, if I put my Bryson amps on louder rather than softer would that speed up the warming process? The idea that a trickle of low sound constantly going through is appropriate? |
I have Bryston amps 2 x 7b3 2 x 28bsst2 1 x 4b3 1 x 4bsst2 1 x 4b yes I need to contact Bryston for a technical view as they all seem to have different warm up times. Elizabeth pointed out possible reasons. Been a bit busy recently but must allocate some time to email them. So the general view is that it may not be at all ambient temperature and ... no ... it is NOT uncommon to take so long to get up to speed (snigger snigger) |
My experience with my McCormack amp is similar to what you’ve experienced with your 28bsst2s — about 20 minutes to settle despite leaving amp on 24/7. I’d do two things. First I’d call Bryston to see if there’s something specific to the 7b3 (how many Bryston amps do you own BTW???) that would cause this and what they’d recommend. Second, and depending on what Bryston says, I’d leave a streamer or cheap Blu-ray playing 24/7 to make sure all the circuits are firing rather than the amp just being in “standby.” I doubt this will have you at 100% right from the start, but I’d bet it cuts down your current wait time significantly. Just some thoughts, and let us know whatever you find out. |
This is absolutely normal. You would think of divesting in an amp because you are using it wrong and are uneducated on the subject of mechanical settling? Solid State should ALWAYS be left ON, unless you are traveling for an extended period of time or you're expecting lightning. Tube amps also do NOT just come on and become listenable instantly. Just like tubes need to warm up and settle, so does your Bryston. Why would you presume a fan cooling your amp would aid in it's settling? It gets better sounding as it WARMS up not cools down. Ever notice no one in a sporting event cools down first? No they warm up. Your idea that a case somehow impacts the the electronics is also demonstrative of you're having it all wrong. Do you own a car? A sports car perhaps or a Porsche for instance? The user manual specifically states it is dangerous to the engine if run over 4100 RPM before running for 5 minutes and that one should not sit idle too long when initially starting up.The circuit it's on has no bearing. Keep your amp on and idling all the time. Your preamp too. Chill and don't be in such a rush. The tortoise always beats the hare. |
Yes. The only internal connections that remain are tube sockets. Several studios' multi- & 2T track analog recorders had every connection from the console to the card edge connector removed. Multi-tracks had a pair of audio channels with all audio IC sockets removed. All other channels had PoS tinned leaf sockets upgraded to HiRel machined gold plated. When designing electronics, we often start with a hand wired prototype. Getting it into production is often a game of 'beat the demo'. For sceptics whose ears or heads are full of 's$#@', we built 3 versions once the PCB design was finalized.
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@noromance I totally agree. I'm simply saying that if you start at a higher temp, the amp will reach thermal stasis quicker, which was the question posed by the OP. @b_limo Agree also, starting an ice-cold engine is the worst thing you can do to it. But, it's hard to ignore that on a hot summer day the internal components reach there proper thermal properties (read: tolerances) quicker. BTW, ARC breaks in all of their equipment. And back in the day they used a "hot room" to do it, can't speak to if they take the same approach today. I simply know my ARC amps (all four of them) like to be turned on for at least 30 minutes and then play moderately (softly) for another thirty and then it's off to the races as far as I'm concerned. |
Some products have dozens of internal connections for transformers, B+ rails, driver to power transition, etc. Every connection, unless soldered or compression fused, acts as a variable resistor. As these connections change temperature, they change value and alter the level and phase of AC signals. As the connections age, the deltas become more extreme due to corrosion from metal or atmospheric interactions. !!!! WARNING - Only for the technically skilled !!!! Over the years, I have made permanent improvements to electronics by removing all unsoldered internal connections. |
Interesting topic and relevant for me. I’ve been thinking about this lately as well. I leave my solid state amp on 24/7 (and always have)but I feel like there is still a noticeable improvement after about an hour of music being played through it. I also feel like moderate to high volume speeds up the process a bit. I’ll start playing music about 30-60 minutes before I sit down and critically listen. I used to believe that it was only the amp that needed to be warmed up but now I’m wondering if its the speakers, cables etc all “warming up” as well. I recall a friend who had a thumping car system and he would wait 30 minutes or so before really cranking up the volume. I take the same precautions with my home speakers. I wouldn’t get in my car and redline it as I’m pulling out of my neighborhood. I think it’s a good idea to ease into putting large strain on mechanical components until they are at optimal temperature! |
While heat can be indicative of how warmed up an amplifier is, the corollary is not necessarily true. I would imagine it is more to do with capacitors stabilizing and tubes and semiconductors reaching their operationally optimum parameters. Therefore, applying heat is most likely not conducive to expediting peak operational conditions. |
If you really believe its a heat issue go out and buy an indoor/outdoor thermometer with the little wire outdoor probe. Rest that probe on the ventilation holes with the amps at idle for 24 hours. Take reading. Put on some music that you are sure you can hear the difference after the amps have warmed up, when they become "right" take a reading. After your listening session let the amps cool back to idle, take reading. Now block the ventilation holes with a suitable small throw pillow or whatever. Monitor the heat build up and see if it approaches the "right" temperature. Note time to proper temperature. Remove pillow. Listen again and see if that cured the warm up issue or the warm up time is less. As Hunter Thompson said "I don't recommend blocking vent holes, but its always worked for me." Use caution. I did this years ago with a Hafler amp, used a pizza box cut and taped together to form a cover for the whole amp. YMMV. BTW, this is a fun and cheap experiment, way cheaper than switching a bunch of components. Let me know how it works out. |
I never listen to my amp. Just my system. Speakers warm up from the power going through them. This changes the XO frequency and driver response. See http://ielogical.com/Audio/WinterBlues.php#TheFly It's never just the amp!! |
Your investment in your entire system is compromised, I can see why you would want to solve this.
I have been lucky over the years, much tube gear, Fisher Mono Blocks, Fisher 500C, Fisher 800C, Scott, Tandberg, .... They all sounded great right away, no warm up. I also had big McIntosh SS MC2250, it was good from turn on. Via it's SS C28 preamp, started good right away. My current Tube Amp, Cayin A88T, supposedly designed to sound like a McIntosh MC275, definitely needs 20 minute idle warm up, every time. 1st time experiencing this, took some getting used to, I turn it on, idle, do other stuff, come back and listen. It's integrated, so I use it without my tube preamp for Reel to Reel, ..., and use it's pre-in for Phono and FM via my tube preamp. Needing long active warm up, leaving it on a long time, would be unacceptable to me, I would definitely sell that amp and get one that was ready to go after a short, 20 min idle warm up. |
change the amp it's too harsh unless it's really hot than it's smoother. 24/7 should be good enough to sound good from the first minute but after an hour all amps will sound better.try to choose one that sounds good enough once it's on .the rest is a bonus(it's like a mini break in every time it operates). or you can swap the speakers or the source to something less intense or warmer and keep the amp. try to first spot your problem tone wise than figure a way to deal with it by changing something to the opposite direction. brystons can be bright.adding a tube buffer can help. |
Do you need heat in the winter? Use your amps instead! I leave my class A's at one third power most of the time, and go to full power an hour or three before listening. I have found no difference between running at full power with a signal and running at full power without a signal. But that's class A. |
Thanks Elizabeth - I think I need to contact Bryston to see what technical issues (beyond my normal ken) come into play. My 28bsst2's have a similar problem and if I were to rely on memory (not a good thing!) I would say they took 20 minutes to warm up from idle. So oddly ... a bit less time ..... so model variance could be an issue. And my 4bsst2 a bit quicker than that, now I come to think about it. Millercarbon - are you saying running the demagnetizing track reduces warm up time? |
As others have noted there is no getting around the fact it just takes time. One thing you might try is running a demagnetizing track. The XLO test CD has two, and there are others. Basically its a tone that sweeps and/or slowly fades to zero. First time if you've never done this you should notice a pretty obvious improvement with blacker backgrounds, better detail and dynamics, and less grain and glare. In other words pretty similar to what you get as the system warms up more. I copied mine off the XLO CD and burned onto another CD with the tracks repeated 6 times, so I can just stick it in and let it play while I go do something else. Few minutes later, all is ready to go. Nice part is this gets not only the amp but the interconnects, speaker cables, everything the signal passes through. |
This does seem to vary a great deal from brand to brand and type of amplifier. My current Luxman amp does not seem to need any warm up time at all, after the initial stabilization period and the relays click on. I had a Parasound which I'd leave on 24/7 to reduce warm up time but never noticed needed play time. My Class D's need to be on for days. |
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