Volti does it again!

I quit selling on fleabay 10 years ago for that reason.  Buyers would decide to return things for no good reason and I was forced to accept the returns with a full refund- and pay the return postage.

When I sell my used gear on these websites I certainly do not want an item returned.  I describe the item exactly as it is and buyers should have the understanding that the used market is not a buy and try proposition.  Speakers are the most susceptible to damage- through either under/over powered amps or through physical damage.  When I sold my Thiel speakers, I wanted the buyer to pick them up in person.  That person got to hear them in person and inspect them thoroughly.  I certainly wouldn’t have appreciated him coming back two weeks later to return them because they didn’t sound good in his home.

Buyers must take responsibility for their decisions at some point.  Where dealers offer money back guarantees, that’s great and gives us some assurance about the product and I wouldn’t hesitate to return an item on those terms if I were not satisfied.  When it is a no returns or a no cash refunds deal, then I think real hard first before buying.

I don’t really know, how on a practical basis, when you are making more or less one off custom made products you can have a return policy.

"More or less" custom = not that custom. These are not so very customized. And really, return policies are all over the place. Fritz does it. Jim Salk did this for years. Spatial does this. Tekton does this. Zu does this. Others do this. It’s a thing.

Volti doesn't WANT to have this policy. That is totally their right. But saying it's not done or not reasonable to have such a policy is directly and quickly contracted by available facts. And there are other companies that do not allow returns. To each his own.

I don't think that Volti is taking a harsh or unreasonable position in that I don't really know, how on a practical basis, when you are making more or less one off custom made products you can have a return policy.  I guess, in theory, he could have a "generic" tour model...but then again, how are people going to feel about eating two way shipping costs of $500+ if they don't like them....let alone all the finger pointing that could very well occur when a 110lb speaker gets dinged, even slightly, by the shipping company

I totally understand anyone not wanting to take the risk of buying an expensive 100lbs speaker with not hearing at home first...and just because it sounds good in someone else's house, guarantees nothing about how it will sound in your house.

@soix 

@snapsc 

In recent years I've brought in a few very well regarded speakers that I had high hopes for but when compared to what I was replacing they didn't make the cut. Some sold off, some returned. Adjusting Volti's policy would possibly result in far more business which seems like a win win. But for now, no no.

I agree with @soix. I'm no longer interested in buying these speakers, new. Too great a risk. @snapsc can see, then, at least two here on the forum who will not buy his speakers, so perhaps Volti is at capacity and doesn't need our business --good for them, I'd say. But we prove wrong the idea that "his policy isn't hurting his sales." And if there are two of us saying it here -- and not just to be snarky or make a point (we're not) -- it's reasonable to imagine there are many others who agree. 

In the long run, Volti may not care about this reaction. Or maybe there will be a point coming when sales are down or the buzz has cooled off. That will be when these comments resurface and the policy gets a second thought.

The Lucera sounded fantastic…incredibly lifelike presentation without the need for insane volume. 
 

Since all of Greg’s speakers are custom built to order… why should they be returnable?  And given their weight and the cost of return shipping, would anyone feel that it was economical to return them vs reselling them?

Maybe he could have a return option with a shipping cost both ways deduct and a 35% restocking fee to cover their resale as b stock. 
 

Either way, his policy isn’t hurting his sales as people love his speakers and service so he should probably just keep doing what he has been doing. 

I live outside Tampa and was at the show on Sat.

I thought the ($11,750) Lucera’s sounded fantasic also. Really, really good and in my top 3 small rooms that I heard on Saturday. Amazing for being in a hotel room with no treatement.

I had two hifi buddies drop by after the show and another one today and all 3 of them are seasoned audiophones and all 3 were very impressed with what they were hearing which were my Rivals.

I’m still thrilled with my system and have no desire for anything else. Sure I heard better systems at the show but there weren’t many and they all cost more, some a lot more.

I’m running a rolled Primaluna Evo 300i and the Rivals are sitting on Townshend Podiums.I listen to mostly classic rock and usually pretty loud or loud as I like to feel my music - but the bass isn’t overdone either like a few speakers I heard at the show. I’m 99% vinyl and don’t own a DAC/streamer yet. 1% is CD.

Here is another vid I came across:

@whoopycat  now that’s what I’m talking about! Is there anything better than a speaker that makes you jump up and get excited? When I brought mine home that house was shaking for days, just couldn’t help it.

I picked up a pair of Razz over the holidays from Greg.  All I can say is all of the rave reviews from Doyle and other reviewers are spot on.  I love my Coherent 10's but I wanted something that could play on a bigger scale but with refinement, and boy do these deliver.  The cool part is the Razz are roughly the same cabinet size as my Coherents, but they weigh a lot more.

Had an audio buddy come over who had never heard horns.  We popped in the latest Slowdive album into the CD player.  He said it felt like he was back at the concert he saw them at last year.  The music comes alive at lower volumes than my Coherents or my Zus.  I'm really impressed with the 12" bass woofer on the Razz.  You play an album with really deep, compressed bass, like the Panda Bear album Buoys, and that woofer doesn't even flinch.  

Volti certainly has similarities to Klipsch Heritage, previously offered upgrades for Klipschorns. I use his tractrix horns on my Klipschorns, allied with custom build crossovers and aftermarket drivers not much in common with any stock Klipschorn. I've not heard Volti's but knowing his design and execution I'd expect A+ sound from these.

In recent years I've brought in a few very well regarded speakers that I had high hopes for but when compared to what I was replacing they didn't make the cut. Some sold off, some returned. Adjusting Volti's policy would possibly result in far more business which seems like a win win. But for now, no no.

Speakers are extremely easy to damage in shipping and in moving it in out and around a listening room.  I am amazed at how many come back to a store with nicks or even worse damage when being borrowed for an audition.  Also, to be fair, anything that went out and came back should not be resold as “new” unless the buyer is aware of this condition.  Allowing returns would add dramatically to the cost of the speaker.  Which is preferable: a liberal return policy or a low price?

@doyle3433 I am not a fan boy of Vandersteen like some are.  I do own the 5As and Sevens.  But we also manufacturer audio components and the hybrid and class A tube mono blocks we build just work wonders on them.  We have some many things in our listening room so people are always invited to come and play with us.  We enjoy the company.  If anyone is in the New Jersey area, come say hello.

@hilde45  Agreed, 0 flexibility is not ideal. Not sure if that’s due to being burned in the past. When I worked at the only real HiFi shop in my town, my boss similarly was a bit rigid after the sale. I can say for sure his reasoning was getting burned. We also dealt in pro audio, and that was sometimes nightmarish. 
Volti is a small shop, less than a dozen employees, no dealer network etc… I’m sure there’s a component of growth, keeping up with sales and stock, all while keeping quality high. It would be great if there were a handful of options to hear them other than going to the shop and a couple of shows. I just like to offer my house and my system to anyone interested. I know that we as a community indulge in a somewhat solitary hobby, but as proof from the show I’m just returning from, when we nerds meet, we really interact and engage in conversation.

@bigkidz  you didn’t hijack at all my friend, discussion is why we’re here right? Also the Vandersteen were also at the top of my list. I will own a pair someday.

At $7.5 the best deal on speakers I have seen would be purchasing Vanderteen model 5As for $5K as they have been recently selling for.  Adjustable bass and with zero feedback amplifiers they will sound amazing.

Didn't mean to hijack your post.

@wolf_garcia

I agree that a "no returns for any reason" policy is pretty customer unfriendly.

Ok, so maybe this maker is short on staff or has gotten burned in the past -- or something.

But FFS, if I spend thousands of dollars on something, you’d think there would be a policy of trying to work with the customer. I mean, Volti could have a high re-stocking fee or insist on shipping being paid both ways, or whatever. Then, I’d at least know what I was risking by trying out a speaker. But to have no options at all? Bad policy, IMHO.

By having this kind of policy, in my opinion, they close off customers who are not stingy or finicky but understand that this has to be solid decision. And given the nature of acoustics and the importance of trying speakers in your space, it seems entirely reasonable. I mean, even little ol’ Fritz gives an in-home trial and he’s about as small a company as you can find.

And if you can drive to hear a Volti, great. That's a decent substitute. But could it really be that it's ok for many customers not in driving distance to have to take a big risk?

@wolf_garcia I agree completely, especially given the amount of money involved. For me it was a leap of sorts to take the pretty long drive down to Volti to listen and make my decision. No doubt some psychology was involved on my part, “ well I’m here, they look soo pretty, I made the drive etc..” to Greg’s credit he had me listen for hours, well into the night, pretty much anything I wanted to hear that I normally would. Perhaps the planets were all aligned, or just call it luck because the Razz exceeded all of my expectations, I was sold!  If you are in the NE Ohio area or close enough, I’d be happy to have you come, anyone on AG too for that matter…

Thank you @2psyop it’s taken a while for me to put it together, that’s part of the fun right?

@speedthrills right there with you, bought a nice pair of DH labs bi-wire speaker cable and locking bananas. Not because I needed them, but wanted them. 😁😁

Volti speakers are very nicely built.  The founder started out as a cabinet maker and it shows in the wood work.  I like the sound too.  The Razz and Rival are lively sounding without harsh peaks are extreme nasal coloration found in some horn systems.  The biggest weakness of both, for my taste, is the bass sounding a little bit disconnected and different from the rest of the range.  I also heard their big flagship (can’t remember the name) and liked that too.  Their horn systems are terrific at their price points.  

You may want to wait to listen in a non show, non hotel room environment if possible. I always find it tough to make an informed decision when at Axpona or similar- so busy, loud, distracting etc. Plus, theres always that overwhelming urge I have to buy SOMETHING- that skews me toward a bias I'm sure lol.

I've been interested in Volti speakers for a while but was turned off by the "no returns for any reason" policy...I'd have to be sold on them at a show I suppose but that's very unlikely as no shows appear to be near me or anywhere I feel like traveling to. Yet.

doyle3433

That's some nice gear and I am willing to bet those new Volti speakers will sound great, better sound in every area. Nice choice and match to the Cary.

Well sadly I think Volti’s website is not updated. $7,500 is the price of the Razz. Also the pictures under the Lucera link are pictures of the razz.

In this video the paper on the table shows a prices of $11,750 for the Lucera.

When I heard the Volti speakers at the show he was using some $40k SET amps with a Lampizator DAC.  Certainly hard to go wrong with that setup.

It's common to think that each component in a system should not be too out of line cost wise with the other components.  Not always the case as with these Volti speakers.  They were quite capable in utilizing top level electronics.  I have a pair of B&W floor standing speakers that I bought in 1999 for my HT system.  They were ok.  I was curious one day and connected them to my hifi system.  They didn't get any better.

The Volti speakers also have the option of external crossovers.  A further refinement keeping the electronics away from sources (the speaker drivers) of vibration.

How is the bass?

@doyle3433 Thanks for the comparisons and info. Everyone has to make money and Volti deserves praise if the speakers are at or above the Klipsch in quality. Certainly, they're not super expensive speakers for what you get. Just a look at the Devore speakers prices (different technologies but also the cost of building in Brooklyn, having bespoke finishes, and the money of Wall Street nearby infusing clientele with discretionary income).

Tonywinga,

I agree on your speaker tastes so that is high praise to include the Volti. I would like to hear them sometime. 

If someone can determine how a speaker sounds by looks and spec sheets, I'll be impressed.  Case in point:  At Axpona 2022 I looked in the door of this very large ballroom and saw two diminutive granite towers- two way speakers.  No music was playing.  Unimpressed, I moved on.  Later, I came back to that room and walked in.  When the music started I was blown away.  These Acora speakers sounded amazing and they easily filled this giant room with music.  They filled the room with powerful bass.  "What sort of sorcery was this", I thought.  I walked around the two granite towers and confirmed that was all there was.  Had there been an Acora dealer a few hundred miles from my location I would have looked into getting a pair.

Besides my Wilsons, the most impressive speakers I have heard over the years are the Quads, Thiel, those Acora speakers, the Volti and the large Maggies with top of the line ARC gear.  (Lesser electronics make the Maggies sound less than average to me.)  I couldn't stay in the room with Klipsch for very long- same with the big B&Ws.  I've heard the Vandersteen Model 7 XTRMs in a showroom several times.  Sometimes they sound amazing and sometimes just better than average.  It's back to the electronics, I think.

@2psyop my current set up. Volti Razz, Cary SLI80HS integrated, MoFi ultra deck with Hana ML, Parasound Jc3 jr phono pre, Line Magnetic LM 24 disc player. When I talked with Greg the sensitivity of the new model was higher than the Razz, 98db I believe…

As for the comparison to Klipsch, yes there’s no denying the similarities. The Volti website has a pretty decent compare and contrast write up. As for me I did own a pair of Heresy lV which I enjoyed. Don’t tell anyone but my usual is to pull out drivers and look inside my speakers. The Heresy was constructed well, but no where near the level of the Volti. When I picked up my Razz from the shop I was able to see all models in various stages of build. In all Volti the cabinets are made of thick marine grade wood, heavily braced throughout. I’m no expert, but the drivers appear of excellent quality. And the real gem to me was the 2” throats on the mid horn. Unreal to me how much more realistic the human voice sounded with only a minor difference in throat size.

@james633 Thanks for your comments. I'm now poring over the Pi website. This looks like a serious option for me to investigate, and parts are specified and can be upgraded. Plus, there are kits for those interested. Seems like a potential competitor to Omega and maybe Devore, at least superficially.

Hilde45.

I have never heard the Volti but it might just come down to quality of parts. the mid horn is mad of wood where Klispch is made of thin plastic (even the La Scala). Klispch has stamped baskets and all in all just seem cheaply put together to me (I think they sound fine but not refined enough for me).

I would like to read more about the drivers in the Volti as the drivers are 90% of the sound quality IMO. they could be amazing drivers or very average, there is simply not enough information for me to know without listening. Measurements would help these small brands sell speakers as it would take out the some of the risk as a buyer.

With that said I think the price to build quality looks really good on these. I expected them to be just over $10,000. At $7500 I would try these if I was in the market.

When I look at these speakers, I see Klipsch redux.

I’m not trying to be critical.

If anyone can explain how or why these are made differently or sound different from speakers in the Klipsch line, I’m all ears.

Because used Klipsch speakers are pretty easy to find used and are likely less expensive than new Volti.

Oh, and has anyone heard Pi speakers? https://pispeakers.com/Products.html

Open to hearing reasoning and experiences. Go!

I heard the Volti speakers at the 2022 Axpona in Tampa.  That was one of just two rooms that I didn't want to leave at the whole show.  (The Acora's rocked too.)

It had me thinking hard about revamping my entire system.  Building a system with either high power, low to medium efficiency speakers or low power high efficiency speakers.  The latter is I think, the more cost effective path to great sound.  Makes me think about a Quad ESL system as well.  That is the magical system right there- but not for rock and roll.  But I was too far down the path with my current system to change directions.  It would have been easier for me to just have two systems but I wouldn't be able to decide which one to sit down and listen to each night, causing my head to explode.

https://voltiaudio.com/lucera/

Interesting dilemma. What electronics and source would you be using with these new speakers should you choose to drop the hammer?