Congrats on you purchase of the Luxman. It was on my short list but I wound up with an Ayon. Both are great players.
Vinyl guy seeking recommendation for a top level cd player
I know cds are dead. Best time to buy a cd player, the way it looks. I want an all in one box. I don't stream so a separate DAC is not required. Most of my cd collection have been ripped to a PC as Flac files and then down loaded to a Sony HAP-Z1ES. Currently about 3000 Redbook and perhaps 100 SACDs. The way cds are being dumped I figure on becoming a buyer again so these numbers will go up. I have looked at Marantz SA10, Esoteric K1 (lightly used), and Luxman D-10X, so far. It would be good if the sound could approach vinyl. The Z1 does up to a point. Listening this morning to the same recordings, the Z1 compares to a high end MM cartridge, but not to a SoundSmith Experion. Maybe I am asking too much, but in any event a new cd player is being sought. Thanks in advance for any advice.
Bill
Bill
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Fully appreciate the one box approach and is a good solution for the number of CDs you own. If I remember correctly your Sony has Burr Brown DACs in them which were very popular and good sounding DAC. I concur with other to look toward an Esoteric of some flavor and would add to listen to one with an AKM AK4497 DAC chips in it. While there are other factors such as analog output stage design and transport that will have an impact on sound, my Linn streamer with their Katalyst DAC is based on the same chipset and it is simply the best DAC/Analog output stage I have heard or owned. Also - this could be your exit market investment in CD playback. Worth a purchase if you will get the use out of it. |
REGA ISIS VALVE cdp/dac https://www.tonepublications.com/review/the-rega-isis-cd-player-2/ “…. (1) Those worried about the viability of the CD format and getting your player serviced in the future, fear not. Inside the owner’s manual, there is a signature from the technician that assembled your ISIS, another tech that QC’d the electrical and mechanical systems and the tech that tested and archived not one, but two spare laser units. I think it’s safe to say that the ISIS will last longer than most of its owners and I appreciate this attention to detail, with CD transport mechanisms getting scarcer all the time…” ”…. (2) An outstanding DAC that happens to play CD’s, or the other way around? As the market for high performance CD players is probably nearing its end, Rega gives you the option to use the ISIS as a USB DAC as well. Personally, I’d love to see an SPDIF input on this player, but considering the recent success of the Ayre USB DAC, I’m guessing this is not a deal breaker for the current crop of audiophiles that are more computer based. While you might be clinging on to your shiny discs for now, the ISIS gives you the options to go both ways and that’s what makes the ISIS such a great value. The DAC performance of the ISIS was also outstanding when streaming files from my Mac Book Pro via the USB input, which is switchable from the front panel or the remote. The only serious drawback to the ISIS is it’s inability to read 24bit/96khz files and this may be the Achilles heel for someone wanting to make this player part of a more computer based system. With 24/96 files becoming the new standard, this will limit your music choices going forward. Personally, I see the ISIS in the same light that I do my Naim 555, a statement CD player for someone with a large collection of physical media...” |
I completely agree with ghdprentice. Just look at his post:This is from someone who thinks a modified Oppo is the best digital can do.Btw, I have been repeatedly dissatisfied and disappointed by digital for decades… the promise… the failure, rinse, repeat.He forgets to lather. But aside from that, well said. |
I have just done what you were talking about... I had an arcam sacd player but on cd it always sounded far worse than vinyl. I just bought a pro Ject rs2 cd box which is just a transport. This feeds a chord qutest dac and the result is amazing.... Easily as good as as vinyl like in enjoyability as my rega RP8 / apheta MC setup. As I have a luxman amp I was tempted by a luxman player as well but cost was a bit more and I had the DAC already. If you can demo one I would recommend... I was lucky enough to have a home demo for 2 weeks although I knew on the first 2 songs this was perfect.... 5 further 4 hour sessions just cemented that thought... Made tidal masters and ripped flacs from my Nas sound thin in comparison (using same DAC) It doesn't make sense but I like it.... |
Thanks again to one and all. I will report back once I take possession of the D10X and get some time with it. In the end I think it came down to a choice between the Ken Ishiwata (Marantz) voicing, which tends toward lush mids and highs and more forward, versus the Luxman more analytical and more distant perpective. The Esoteric that was on offer was older, used, and I was afraid of it for that reason. Other suggested brands in this discussion were not available to me. I do have the right of return if necessary, but that is unlikely. Bill |
I am just in the middle of the same effort. I came across a brand that I had not heard before … Ayon (from Austria). I am home demoing the CD35 and CD10. Tube output, PCM to Digital conversion, upsampling, slow roll of filter. I am very impressed. They are not uber detailed (a plus for me as too much gets in the way) but detailed enough for my taste, very musical and involving, great bass. Have a listen if you can find them. |
Hey Bill - I only have experience with the Maratnz SA-10 - and that was only a demo at my local shop - so I'm not an expert. But I found it to have a warmer, sort of softer sound to it over other CD/ DACs I listened to. It's not quite as edgy when the mix is poor or the singer is off. But it has a very comfortable, relaxed sound to it. It's super easy to enjoy. Since you're the one who ultimately has to live with it though, I'd suggest seeing if your local dealer will allow you to evaluate a few players for a week or so at a time. My local guy here has allowed me to do that and it's been fantastic because I can hear what it sounds like in my system, in my room. No review, or blog, post, etc, can match that experience imo. You might also want to consider the Marantz SACD 30n - it's less than half the price, and that has had fantastic reviews. (Some who compare it to the 10) And, I am familiar with What HiFi - they do a lot of technical items, and they review audio components from very inexpensive to 10k or so. So, I'd "trust" a more audio only publication like Stereophile a little more, but I have found What HiFi to be pretty spot on with their reviews too. I hope that this helps you out and wish you the best finding what component you like most! |
I have owned almost all of the Sony ES players a Marantz SA7S1, an Esoteric K01 and now a Marantz SA10. The Esoteric was an outstanding player, but the SA10 is even better with a more extended and detailed high end and a better depth of field for a third of the cost. It gives my SME 20/2 table a run for the money. It benefits highly from a good power cord. I use a Harmonic Technology Reference cord. Good luck! |
Hello; I am also an analog guy, but I own a very musical and pleasant CD player: the Rega Saturn-R which I strongly recommend. if you want to go more High End, go for their top range and try the Rega Isis or the Rega Isis Valve CD players. they are more expensive than my Saturn-R but still thousands of euros less expensive than many “Hihg End” CD players and they play better (the closest approach to a top vinyl system). check the link: http://https//www.rega.co.uk/products/valve-isis |
op don’t think you will do much wrong with the 15k brand new luxman cdp - no doubt a quality piece, certainly easy on the eyes and to the touch, and built to last the what hifi review calls out the sound as being perhaps a little sharp... that is consistent with what i have heard out their recent upper line solid state amps - very refined but nonetheless a lively treble, erring on the side of transparency and speed, rather than warmth and saturation hope the sound of the unit synergizes with the rest of your system -- please do come back let us know how it works out |
I have Marantz SA 10, this sacd competes with my SME 10 turntable, the SA10 if you can match it properly, right cabling and other gear, it will give you the musical dynamic micro and macro, The layering of every instrument do have their space, The SA 10 is a well balance full sounding sacd , it has a very good slam and bass ,It’s a heck of a good player, very powerful sacd player, I don’t even miss vynil when I got the SA 10. My analog set up is excellent as well , I think esoteric stuff are also excellent, I use to have one, and stop working, the repair service can be difficult for the esoteric as well.Iam on my way to buy the MaRantz Ruby sacd player... |
Billstevenson, You should also consider the overall sound that you are looking for. Some suggestions here are very different and your first question about brands that you are interested mentiones two different ’schoolos’ of sound I believe that Marantz and Esoteric (speaking in general) have different approach to the sound and Luxman would be closer to Marant (but perhaps not the D-10x) If I would judge by your choise of equipment I would say that ’precission and ultimate resolution’ (overall sound of esoteric digital might be desribed that way) is not your first goal when choosing hi fi components. Than again, maybe such player would be better in your system than the one of different voicing. You will need to take both kind home and try it. I do not use pc audio.or streaming As far as ’analog’ sound of digital players is concern, I prefer Burmester brand. I have had few their players, 061, 001 and just recently I got the 089 model Had Dcs Puccini with clock,which is great on SACD or on new production, but it will make your not so good recordings even more difficult to listen, once had Bryston as well, had a chance to listen and compare Luxman D05 (or 6) and Ayre as well. There is a brand and player that I would like to recommend. It is the Metronome, their ’entry’ model Le player 2 s. https://www.mymetronome.shop/en/produit/le-player-2s-audio-cd-player-dac/ https://www.hifichoice.com/content/m%C3%A9tronome-technologie-le-player-2s I had it for a year and than replaced it with 089 Burmester. Still, the Metronome is very nice sounding cd player, seriously built, with very ’analog’ like sound. Also, I had it in all tube system (30w p.single ended amp with 6550 tubes in ultra linear mode) and with single ended connections (I belive CJ also have only se) it worked great, unlike some more expensive models which require balanced equipment to show all of its potential |
All CD players are kinda crap at digital. The best possible source for a digital file is a RAM Disk. Its not hard to see why, as its absolutely effortless from your RAM. I have actually tested this extensively, and an NVMe drive is pretty close to a RAM Disk, with SSDs just behind and HDs behind them. I don't have good CD players to test but regular ones are not as good as any HD that I have heard. CD players just throw the bits, as they read them, at their DAC, or out to your DAC, while digital files have header, so the system knows what's happening. Come on kids, I'm nearly 75 and have been tweaking my systems since the 80s of the last century. Computer noise can be pretty well eliminated by using a Pi bridge of some kind, and the Pi2AES hat is so good at this, the signal my DAC sees is very clean indeed, with almost imperceptible levels of both noise and jitter. |
"...Lasers do not stop working due to age or usage..." Lasers as a group do wear out with usage. I know I’ve bought a couple of 60000 buck lasers because the laser was timed out. I guess the lasers in CD players are long life LED lasers? Not sure but they do not last forever either. My old hi-end dealer would not buy or sell used CD players because of the laser issues. |
Ive owned a couple of Marantz (Pearl/Sa-10)and currently own both the K01XD and Luxman D-10 as well as Ayre Universal Player DX-5 and Oppo 105 + 205. Oppo Dacs are REALLY lame. If your gonna use an Oppo just use it as a Transport. Some of these people have just never compared spinners obviously. Lasers do not stop working due to age or usage. They can crap out at ANY time which any CD Player manufacturer will tell you. Always smart to stock up on NOS Lasers while available. Super Cheap. |
To all the people here who have commented, have you actually heard the units you are/are not recommending or are you going by what you have read about them? My recommendation was based on solid evidence and I have heard the Luxman and Marantz. No comparison to Esoteric. Esoteric makes transports other high end manufacturers buy. |
Just did what you are going to do. It got me back to enjoying my CD’s as well as my Vinyl. I kept cost down by going for a used Oppo bdp-105. Good advice and praise for it here, many good reviews like this one https://www.audioholics.com/blu-ray-and-dvd-player-reviews/oppo-bdp-105 Also great praise for Oppo bdp 205, I went for 105’s lower cost. They have very convenient remote volume, and ’Pure Audio’ mode as well as dual processors .... For CD only, the full function remote is quite large if that makes a difference to you. Laser Life: IF you go for a used unit of any maker: find out how much it has been used, the lasers eventually weaken, then you get ’no disc’, ... other error messages. It’s not what year it was made, it’s how much the laser was used. I had to return one for that reason, bought this one from original owner with very low use assured. |
Bill, Among your choices, Luxman D-10X has the best analog like sound due to its D/A converter. The built quality is outstanding. Esoteric toss around here a lot but to my ears its players are no where near analog sounding as Luxman. I would also take a look at Accuphase DP-750, it’s what I call the end game SACD/CD transport. https://www.accuphase.com/cat/dp-750_e.pdf |
Budget? Dont overlook Bryston. I have the DAC, and I love it. Very open, natural, no glare. I have heard the Hegel once at Axpona and that was my general impression as well. I don’t care for the Marantz house sound and their customer service is terrible. I can’t afford Esoteric or T/A, but if you can look there |
Luxman D-10x is probably as close to Analog as your gonna get. Its a laid back presentation. Marantz Sa-10 is nowhere in the same league as Luxman/MSB/Esoteric...and is priced accordingly. I purchased the Marantz SA-10 for $2700....The Luxman D-10X I got the Reviewer Sample for $10,500. Most (that have tried both) prefer the Esoteric K-01XD to the Luxman D-10X. Guess it depends on the music your listening to. If you wanna Rock out go for the Esoteric. If your into lightweight stuff (female vocals/classical/jazz) you'll probably prefer the Luxman. Cross the Marantz off your list unless money is an issue. If RE-SALE value is important to you forget about brands like MBL, Ayon, Oppo/Modwright...you'll get killed. |
I have an older luxman D05 and it sounds extremely good, warm and dynamic with smooth detail. Luxman is due to release more models between the 3x and 10x but if you have the budget the 10x should be outstanding. I heard the Hegel mohican and hated it. it tried too hard to be midrange smooth and wound up casting a soft sheen over the detail. Budget no concern the MBL unit mentioned earlier is the best I have heard. Beats the Esoteic model I also heard. I have also a Marantz SA 8005 and wanted a retreat from the Marantz sound when I bought the Luxman. Very happy with it. |
Suggest you have a look at the Ayon players. The CD 10 or CD 35 (generation II Ultimate). Does PCM to DSD then runs it through a slow roll off filter (if you like). Tube output stage. The strength is musicality … analogue like for a CD player. If money allows, consider the Weiss DAC (two different models depending on your budget) and Transport. |
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There are a couple of things I don't want: Any kind of a computer integrated directly into my sound system or any other kind of an Erector Set of subcomponents such as disc drive, DAC and clock just to play silver discs. I view this as a secondary source. That it why I specified a one box solution in my OP. As far as PS Audio is concerned a couple of thoughts: First, their two box solution does much the same thing as the Marantz SA10, different approach but net effect quite similar, but at twice the price. Second, the company screwed their dealer network over last year and have effectively fixed their prices in an anti-competitive manner. I own their excellent power supply equipment, but don't think I want to get further in bed with them. Back to the Marantz SA10, What HiFi is the only resource I have found so far that has rated both it and the Luxman D10X (although there are other ratings for one or the other). The ratings were done at different times, however, and I don't know anything about the credibility of What HiFi. Can anyone offer insight? I am unfamiliar with Hegel. |
modwright’s modded sony or marantz or oppo units with tube output stage are very hard to beat for sound quality, but you have to deal with multiple boxes, umbilicals, tubes etc etc levinson’s top players were excellent, there is one just fixed up on the other used gear site the vacuum state modded top tier sony’s are also really wonderful solid state units i still have a modwright and a vsei sony scd-1... among current players, the hegel mohican has had excellent reviews, i have not heard it, but hegel only makes stuff that sounds great |
