As a user of a Log Fire for home heating, I can't recommend cutting up furniture coated with a finishing material to be used as Kindling.
If a Chimney Fire occurs, a Insurance Company will be taking swabs of the Flue Liner. Any Chemical Substances discovered that are not a deposit from wood will leave the property uninsured.
The only wood to be burnt is pure natural untreated woods.
It is also worth noting this if a property is being moved into that has a Wood Fire that is intended to be used as working fire. The fire may have had all sorts burnt in it by the previous owner/owners, if a swab is taken at a time of need for financial support, it might not be offered through no fault made of ones own.
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To my eyes the K3 has a sort of Industrial Steam Punk vibe going on. Very interesting. I wish the Esoteric came in an exotic black finish.
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I have to apologize to OMA. My further research shows OMA funded the development under Krebs, and their industrial design group had much to do with the final form.
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@lewm to be fair, I only referred to the K3. I think the K5 is stunning, a thing of beauty, and is straight out of an Art Deco postcard.
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I once owned a TT that sat upon a 9 Stone in weight Granite Plinth/Monolith.
To me this was pure Beauty, produced from Granite I had sourced and had formed to my design by a professional Stone Mason Service. This all took place when I was at a ideal age and at my ideal fighting weight.
One day my Back was injured with the result being a long time recovery, as a result of the Granite was being handled by myself. On another occasion the Plinth without the TT mounted was temporarily stored in the hallway of the home, to keep space it was at rest on its side wall, it fell over onto my wife's foot, the foot looked awful and needed medical attention.
We both fell out of love with the idea of the Granite, it lost its name as a Plinth and become referred to as the Pile of Dung (being polite I am).
The New Owner informed me a few years ago about their own 'on the foot' experience, and how they felt about the Granite, (we shared similar love for it) on putting the phone down I was in a state of laughter 😂😂🤣. My wife had empathy when she learned of the foot incident.
I do believe that I learnt a lesson very cheaply about Audio Sources having a substantial weight as part of the design. I learnt also the times you want to move such weight is usually when you are alone, the want to system tinker overlooks planning against risks.
To be scared of the consequences of handling a weighty Source that cost uber £0000's, there does seem to be a opportunity awaiting to fall out of the Honey Moon Period very quickly.
There isn't many devices( if any) available for use within the home that will make management of Heavy Devices a less concerning activity.
Were all getting a little older and any weight can cause considerable discomfort when being managed. The creation of a situation where considerable weight must be managed, will be a high risk activity for ones maintenance of good skeletal and muscular health. I'm so glad I got of the must have Mass used for Audio Equipment obsession.
I have no issue with mass as a support structure for the system in general, I can deal with this as there is always time to man up with extra help and utilise devices to assist when needed.
My Monoblock Power Amp Sub-Plinth is approx' 200Kg of Granite.
No Issue with Art Deco it has its attraction.
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“I mean, not completely charmless like the congealed aluminium turd that is the american sound as2000, but close.”
Everyone has an opinion. I happen to find the AS2000 quite beautiful. There is a very refined simplicity and purpose to the design. It is indeed very heavy. It is not made of aluminum but rather stainless steel. Speed stability is superb and is a direct result of the 150 lbs platter and ultra low friction bearing (cushion of air). There is minimum influence from the motor (same unit as in Air Force Zero), especially when using a thread to drive the platter. It takes 30 minutes to free spin to rest from 33.333 RPM. This stability results in a very natural sounding transient. I agree with Raul that this is critical to a believable presentation at home.
Fourteen AS2000s were made.
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Never heard of AS2000. How long does it take a string drive to bring a 150 lb platter up to speed? I imagine one could have lunch in the interim.
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You help the platter with your hand and it takes about 20 seconds. You can keep it spinning for the rest of the day or four weeks it doesn’t matter. There is no bearing wear.
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AS-2000 is the real deal. formidable turntable.
heard the AS-1000 myself, not the AS-2000, but almost bought the AS-2000. the AS-1000 was impressive to look at in person. personally I love the look for what that is worth.
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As a user of a Log Fire for home heating, I can't recommend cutting up furniture coated with a finishing material to be used as Kindling.
That episode was nearly sixty years ago. The kindling was for an anthracite boiler that heated (poorly) the house and provided hot water.
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If it really is up among the very best turntables, then it is rather a bargain at less than $100K. Personally I could not put up with the string, the push start, the waiting. But that’s just my preference.
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After looking at the AS 2000, it brought me back to a period when I was introduced to a TT from a different Brand. A TT that has a Highly Polished Platter with a substantial Depth and Weight.
When the retailer of the TT was met, it was at a time when I was involved in a few Audio Builds. On making these known of, the info caught the attention of the owner of the retail outlet that was based at their private residence.
The retailer was inquiring about being demo'd the builds, with a possible follow up for acquiring the build / variants of builds being produced. The talk broached upon the possible cost for them and the Mark Up that would be needed to make the handling product viable.
I offered to introduce the retailer to all my EE contacts to see what they could arrange. Audio equipment as a tool is my interest, Audio is certainly not my vocation. I keep to the sidelines on such discussions, the content is usually found to have very little/if nothing to do with Audio and enjoying it to replay recordings.
The TT being shown to me at the time of encountering the retailer, was claimed to retail at £50K for the TT only.
The retailer was explaining if they could make 2 x Sales of the same companies Speaker on one of their Models or 1 x sale of the Companies TOTR speaker, they was then with the funds to purchase the TT.
To simplify it more, I was informed the TT' was approx' £20K direct from the Manufacturer.
The retailer was keen to have Phon's I was involved with the build of, brought to their premises and used with the TT, in the hope these would be the best electronic ancillary to compliment the TT and chosen TA > Cart'.
I like people too much, I have no desire to be instrumental in seeing them parting with substantial monies to fund another's stay at home lifestyle. I myself never returned to the premises.
The EE responsible for the design and build of the Phon', ended up in a collaboration with a long term established individual who has been at Director Level in well known Companies and who today owns a well known Company.
Shortly after that collaboration started, I received a 'cold call' private contact offering to me a Cartridge Spacer device, that was the one being made known of throughout the HiFi Press. There was a offer to receive this device for a substantially reduced price to the retail being seen. I did not reply to the stranger or the uninvited intrusion.
Next up the EE who is producing the Phon's, is informing myself all about the impression the Phon's have had and the plans for them being offered at High End Munich as £10K Phon's. The ideas had evolved, it was being made known how they wanted to have their own new range of Cables for the show. I am asked to supply all of my Wire Suppliers, especially the PC Triple C and D.U.C.C sources.
For my support I am to receive a pair of Cables that are to retail at £2K.
I done the math for producing a Cable and as a result found the idea of continuing to support the request being made very unattractive.
There does seem to be a Market where certain products are not able to break out of the very low unit turnover of sales area, that as a counter are products on offer that come with a very high mark up for each unit.
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The Nagra turntable and arm has no noise. What I thought was noise from residual dirt in the groove (in other record players) was in fact residual noise from the record player. Somehow Nagra managed to drain all the noise out. Vinyl continues to surprise.
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it is rather a bargain at less than $100K.
@lewm
the AS-2000 is more than $100k by the value of a nice turntable (fill in the blank). and only sold direct, if there are any left to purchase (my sense is that there is no further inventory). Peter would know more about that.
Personally I could not put up with the string, the push start, the waiting.
simplicity is it’s design ethos.
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@OP Even though in principle, you don't want belt drive, I would not rule out the Dohmann Helix One Mk 3. While not strictly on topic, regardless of the choice of TT, the choice of arm is going to be a pretty major factor too.
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I have followed the Supatrac Tonearm from the very earliest time it was becoming a offered product, the designer has always been open about how it is being developed.
Even more admirable, the designer and now owner of the IP and rights to the Supatrac as a design, has been a regular participant on a Thread in the same forum as the link, about mimic designs to the Supatrac being produced. The designers input has been always encouraging the concepts to be developed to their maximum potential.
Dohmann TT’s are regularly presented by certain forum members as very worthy and a worthwhile consideration as a TT’s on this forum.
Mark Doehman has now adopted the use of the Supatrac and some comments made can be seen in the Link added.
Interesting as well, is the Supatrac is also seen used with a SP10 Mk II, mounted on a OMA Plinth.
I’m feeling quite pleased the Supatrac is being discovered by those curious and allowing the interest created to encourage further investing in their Vinyl Systems.
On this forum, I have in the past, encouraged others to consider a Tonearm which is a version/variant of the Supatrac that is being produced as a mimic TA. These are now to be seen in multiple designs built around the Supatracs Mechanical Interfaces and Geometry. A investigation will show there is not too much expense needed to be outlaid to get on board. For one who adopts the project, there is valuable learning to be had if the Supatrac mimic approach is taken on as an activity.
How about a Supatrac used as a Curve Ball TA on other TT’s discussed in this thread, or even extending it to being a Curve Ball TA on other TT's in general.
As a TA, it certainly has become one that has creditability, a little help given where required, especially from a well regarded TT designer, who has discovered value from using it and is willing to make their experience and impression made public.
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I just read the owners manual describing setup of the Supatrac. What a delightfully mid-century British device! Reminds me of putting up the convertible top on an MG TC. However the core idea of placing the pivot in the plane or below the plane of the LP surface has merit.
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+1 on the Esoteric. I own both it and (because I couldn’t pass up the price used) a VPI Avenger Titan, which may be something to consider. The Titan is also extremely easy to set up correctly.
The Esoteric is (barely) superior to the top of the line VPI, but you can get the VPI used for $20k with tone arm used. (New, it’s somewhere around $60k.) And for most recordings, I can’t tell the difference, and it probably comes down to choice of cartridge.
i suspect the Esoteric holds its value better. I’ve never seen a used one for sale.
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Arriving a bit late to the discussion, but having upgraded my turntable five times since the start of covid (there is probably a great research project on the effect of covid on audio upgrade patterns), I ultimately landed on a CS Port TAT1M2. While not in the same price range as those being discussed, this table combined with the Kuzma Safir and the Koetsu Blue Lace and Koetsu SUT, has been a game changer for me. This combination continues to reveal new details in both new quality releases (Aja on 45 and Bill Evans "Waltz for Debby") as well as some of my original albums ("Blues and the Abstract Truth" and the first Tracy Chapman). Most importantly, I am able to listen for hours and hours without any of the exhaustion that can sometimes occur with other systems.
It might be worth a listen if you have a chance.
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Wow! Isn't that SAT tonearm mounted on front like $75,000 ? Again WOW👌
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@thr1961- part of the magic you are experiencing is the Koetsu. I’m running a Kuzma XL/Airline on an HRS plinth with the big Minus K isolation platform (the same technology that the Dohmann (lauded above) relies on). I used some pretty high grade cartridges before the Koetsus- Lyra (Parnasass with platinum magnets; Titan i). Airtight (both PC-1 and Supreme) and the Koetsus gave me filled in bass with dimension and texture. Obviously, everything else has to be up to snuff.
There is more than one way to achieve an objective. I still ask, when paying in the 300k dollar range for the TT, how do you effectively compare and evaluate?
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The wonderful thing with the UK and Europe, is that there are still options to walk into a premises and share in experiences as seen in the Video Clip, or have ones very similar.
In my local HiFi Group, A member has their own HiFi Business that shares a range of products found at the videos host 'Ana Mighty Sound', there are regular experiences of loaned products for Group get togethers used in systems that are very familiar.
Phasemation and Sculpture A products are presented to the group on occasions.
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@pindac curious "there are regular experiences of loaned products..." how one loans out $100 - 500k of 200- 500 pounds of these turntables? Amazing if that would ever happen here in the States!
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The wonderful thing with the UK and Europe, is that there are still options to walk into a premises and share in experiences as seen in the Video Clip, or have ones very similar.
these things happen in the USA when there are established relationships between the dealer and customer. i have experienced it multiple times. not every customer is serious minded enough to earn that sort of support. those that are deal/price focused have to find their own source of performance/value information. dealers are not bending over backward for them. on-line buying tends to reduce service. figuring that part out is one issue that has to be addressed. price negotiation is a different animal in different markets.
the high end use to be about relationships. still is in some places.
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@rsf507 , you’re a dealer right? Perhaps you could kickstart things in the NE area. Lots of audiophiles in the area.
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OP,
I recommend you pose this question at the Audio Aficionado forum. There are lots of folks with high end systems there.
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Tokyo is replete with high end dealers who allow a serious acting walk-in audiophile to spend as much time as wanted listening to various combinations of equipment. In that sense, the Japanese are about 30 years behind the US, where such opportunities have been dwindling year by year, unless you've got the earned reputation of a Mike Lavigne and you live in or near a major city.
Mike, My idea of simplicity is you press a button and the turntable is up to speed in a few seconds with no belt or string to worry about over the course of time. But I am playing in a different sandbox from yours.
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@rsf507 One of the HiFi Groups I attend (not for some time) has the venue that is the premises of a Audio Show Room in their Purpose produced demonstration room.
The Resident System I have encountered over the Years I visited approaches £200K, allowing for Power Treatments and Looms inclusive.
As a result of the £10K Phonostage, £70K Soulution Pre and Power Amp's and £75K Maxsonic Speakers.
The Proprietor has a real Passion for Vinyl sources in use TT>TA>Cart' can easily add up to £50K+ if a TOTR AMG TT is offered for the Demo's and comparisons.
CS Port TT's are offered, but I can't recollect one being used solely as a Demo'-Comparison Model.
All the above devices are intended to have devices built from scratch, modified to different levels or just plane old as purchased, used in place of the resident devices.
A simple rule prevails, its added to the system, and must work with no further tinkering needed or its rejected for the next in the line up. That rule has caused some contention at times, but it is well known and mostly accepted by all who attend.
Usually different meetings cover a a Main Topic, Vinyl Source, CD Source, Amplification and Speakers, but in general this is the Prime experience to be had, there are always other devices brought along and time set aside to hear them, as well as a more informal period where attendees can request a mix and match of devices to be added.
Any Dealership can create a HiFi Club, it just depends on how the Proprietor feels about experiencing other musical encounters outside of the business hours and how they feel about individuals, most likely non-customers, having an ambition and interaction with a very expensive system that is a saleable set up.
In relation to the response to my earlier post, I did limit the loan items to mainly electronic devices, such as Amp's. Many have been loaned from Phon's through to Power in both SS and Valve. On occasion TT types that are easier to transport have appeared as well as Tonearms and Cart's.
I'll say it again, as I have on many occasions prior to this, If one is looking for a real Bang for Buck Power Amp' that can stand 'toe to toe' with much much more expensive Power Amplification, looking in the direction of Neurochrome will do one no harm, especially if funds are very limited to get on board to this type of level of performance.
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@peterayer A friend heard the AS 2000 a while back, reported to me that he was quite underwhelmed. He believed that the speed control was marginal and that the string contributed to wow and flutter. My experience with the old war horse SME 3012 tonearm ( this is typically mounted on the AS 2000) is that one can easily hear the knife edge chatter of the bearing. Assuming of course, that one has a resolving enough system.
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The Link offers further insight to £100K+ TT’s, the content is sort of Hedge Fund-On Topic .
The Lists No5 Rossner and Sohn TT has a lot of resemblance as a finished aesthetic to the Contactless Platter Driven Prototype TT I have been referencing.
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I'm quite content with my Denon DP-59L with Audiomusikraft Lithium headshell with Denon 103R guts. Less than $2K all in. Good enough.
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I own the Esoteric. The best way to understand it is to watch the excellent installation videos. It explains how everything works.
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Dear @mikelavigne : "
the most significant part of a turntable is the steady powerful drive and energy of the music that the turntable projects. that is the main separator of good, better and great.
cool looking turntables are a dime a dozen. exceptionally musical and transformative sounding turntables are rare.. "
I already posted that a TT most does not have a " sound " by it self but the reality is that that can’t be fixed yet. Each TT develops different kind and levels of colorations/distortions, there is no noise-less TT.
You said " energy of the MUSIC that the TT projects ". Maybe a new TT characteristic that I have not a knowledge about. MUSIC " energy " exist in the LP recorded grooves and for me it’s the cartridge/tonearm combination who can projects that " energy " where the TT main target is to spin at precise speed with continuous stability. Yes suspension, TT bearing vibrations all other TT characteristicas are important too, everything is important in any room/syatem.
Now you own 4 different TTs and reading in this and other threads each one of them " sounds " different and that means that each one has a SOUND by it self and you have a favorite that’s the one that like you more ( in the past was the Saskia and seems that today the Esoteric. ) and this " like " is the same with all of us that could be of different " like " kind according our priorities but in all cases that " signature " in TTs is only the TT self colorations/distortions. There is no noise developed TT. In general with analog we all are accustomed to listen different kind and levels of distortions that are distortions/colorations that we like. It does not exist the truly NEUTRAL sound and when what we are listening goes out of the distortions we like or a "boring " item maybe is boring because it’s with not only different distortion levels but probably because is near to be neutral with lower distortion levels.
" musical y transformative " is only part of those distortion levels we like. Through analog we are accustommed to high distortion levls and our ears are way " relaxed " with those kind of colorations/distortion in reality are a poor tool to tell us the true.
Even that two of your TTs have no top speed stability your ears are not compliant about ( the other 2 TTs do not exist specs. ) as many of us including me however we speak of " top quality level performance " and we are so " flexible " to that quality levels but if we think a little about maybe that " top quality level performance " does not exist but a different kind of quality and even that all of us like the MUSIC our ears and pruiorities function in different way too.
I think that with TTs the look of the unit maybe has 50% or even higher " weigth " in our final choice. My choice ( example ) between the K3 or K5 belongs to the K5 only by its looks against the K3 .
That’s why today are dozens of " shine " and heavy TTs as more heavy the better and I think that Japánese vbintage TT designers almost started that trend with Micro Seiki ( TechDas. ) that introduced too the multiple arm boards and yes the the 8000 SA2 is a beauty and for those time came the TT air suspension, air bearing, air TT platter and the like.
American sound was in those times a copy of MS but with more all around metal weigth. In thoase times the AS 1000X weigth was 170kg and around 60kg. by the platter alone and the unit came as the MS with pivoted/cantilever 4 arm boards.
Those designers think that more heavy metal contribute to lower develped distortions/colorations but it’s not that way because any mass ( TT platter ) in movement develops internal vibrations/resonances and other problem is that such heavy platter mass even its high inertia moment is in true imposible to control continuous stability, please think in speed changes from 33.33 to 33.31rpm. We don’t even discern about that kind of speed unstability.
@peterayer , you own the today version of that vintage TT AS20000 and you are way satisfied with: do you own the unit measured specs special on speed and w/f?. I think that for only 14 manufactured units at least we have to know those 2 specs: at least. Is important to know it not only in your unit but in any other TT.
With those very heavy metal weigth TTs we need to know not only ( that we already know ) the price of each metal kg. we paid that seems that’s the market strategy with those units but if gives the speed stabilituy for that critical MUSIC/notes transient response. Btw, I know almost for sure that you have not those specs and that were your ears and the seller who convince you to own that shiny vintage TT.
@whart said: " dollar range for the TT, how do you effectively compare and evaluate? " other that " I like ".
R.
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Dear @lewm : " So it’s quite likely to exceed SP10 Mk3 and SP10R specs in its performance. "
At the K3 price not only should be with better specs than the SP10MK3 but over the Pioneer Exclusive P3a that shows: 0.001% speed and 95db in signal to noise ratio.
Of course that no one ( and I mean it ) can discern betqeen 0.001% on speed stability against 0.02% or between 95db and 88db in signal to noise ratio for TTs but this is not the main issue but that those 2 specs speaks by it self the TT true quality level. With that specs the customer is not buying just at " random " trusting only on the manufacturer words in the site advertasing.
I think that any of those expensive TTs manufacturers must be and should be talk a little less and show up with the reality on measured quality level performance, this is not about $ but honest for the customers of each one of them. If not at the end : what are we buying?.
If we buy a Ferrari that car manufacturer shows and you can corroborate where are your money that paid for it. Well only an opinion.
R.
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If you've never had the experience of listening to a Kronos turntable in a properly assembled high end system, you're in for a treat. As most of you are probably aware, the Kronos turntables incorporate a counter rotating platter beneath the primary platter. First and foremost, the difference this makes is staggering. You can immediately hear the difference dynamic stabilization makes. Colorations we've all come to expect as part of the analog experience are eliminated. No other turntable offers this advantage. Combine this with numerous advancements in resonance control and drive systems, and you have something very special. If you want an endgame turntable the Kronos Discovery Turntable with the Discovery RS Arm and D-SCPS Power Supply is simply the best I have ever experienced.
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Yes heard the Kronos at Axpona last year with Vivid speakers if I recall and wasn't impressed in that room. Yes it was under show conditions. What turntable impressed me? The Reed in the Axiss Audio room using a Reed tonearm. Just my opinion YMMV
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Dear @mattdrummer : As you left clear prority belongs to transiente response characteristic directly related first to the cartridge and then to the TT speed accuracy and continuos stability. I know that you want DD but this very well regarded UK manufacturer shows to you/us not only " words " about but " incredible " thrid part measurements and I said " incredible " because the TT is BD one. Yes the SME 60:
" S peed stability has been a given with previous SME turntables, but the switch from DC to AC motor drive has taken its Model 60 to another level. Its ~0.005% absolute speed accuracy and mere 0.01% peak-weighted wow (fig.1) are comparable with the best of today’s direct-drive offerings, including Technics’s fabulous Grand Class SL-1200GAE. Few other belt-drive decks get this close. Minor flutter modes at ±12Hz, ±33Hz, and ±65Hz (also visible on the unweighted rumble spectra, fig.2) amount to no more than a peak-weighted 0.02%. Furthermore, the sintered bronze bearing, with its oil-damped ball, is so precisely machined and polished that both through-groove and through-bearing rumble are truly state of the art, at –75.5dB and –76.5dB (DIN-B–weighted, ref. 5cm/s), respectively. The impact of the screw-down record weight/clamp is limited to a mere ±0.1dB variance on the through-groove measurement; replay from less flat vinyl discs may benefit more meaningfully. The Series VA tonearm’s spring-loaded downforce dial is calibrated to within ~2% over a 0–3gm range (1gm = 1.02gm; 2gm = 2.05gm of actual downforce). Although the Series VA tonearm’s design is based on the Series V, the new polymer armtube brings the effective mass down closer to 10gm. While this might render the Series VA slightly less compatible with heavier, low-compliance MCs, the current trend for slightly more relaxed MC suspensions—in pursuit of improved tracking—actually makes the VA more relevant. The sidemounted oil bath is retained in case additional damping of especially excitable pickups is required. As with the Series V, the VA’s bearings are free of any perceptible play and for our purposes are essentially frictionless (<5mg in both planes). Resonances within the arm itself are resolved into just two components: a bending mode at 105Hz with a harmonic at 270Hz (structural harmonics are not necessarily integer multiples) and another, higher-Q, resonance at 450Hz. The freedom from more complex resonances, and general clutter, is quite remarkable (CSD waterfall, fig.3).—Paul Miller MEASUREMENTS Fig.2 Unweighted rumble from DC-200Hz (with clamp, blue; without clamp, black), all ref. 1kHz at 5cm/s. Fig.1 Wow and flutter re. 3150Hz tone at 5cm/s (plotted ±150Hz, 5Hz per minor division). Fig.3 Cumulative spectral decay spectrum illustrating the tonearm’s various bearing, pillar, and “tube” vibration modes 100Hz–10kHz over 40"
As any one can see the SME is not only a contender against way more expensive TTs but a true/real challwenge extremely hard to beat it. There are not only " words " but measurements that till the other TT manufacturers show it can puts any one in shame.
Matt, at the ned this is a serious alternative where you don't buy by kilogram.
Btw, Other that SME only TTs made in Japan ( CS Port/Esoteric) shows specs ( words . ) but SME not only shows but real time measurements from a truly experts TT manufacturer with experience for more than 50+ years building different TTs: it's not a " new kid in the block ". SME is a true warranty of true whole quality, nothing less and second to none.
R.
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One more note on Kronos. I'm not the only one that has discovered the amazing performance of a Kronos turntable. Kronos has become the reference turntable for a good number of reviewers and manufacturers that use them to review audio products and build audio products. And most importantly these industry folks have purchased them to simply enjoy their music. To name but a few; Editor-in-Chief of Positive Feedback - Dr. David Robinson, The Audio Analyst/Senior Editor Positive Feedback/Senior Editor Enjoy the Music.com - Greg Weaver, Senior Editor Positive Feedback - Marshall Nack, Freelance Audio Reviewer - Maurice Jeffries, Von Schweikert Audio, Magico Audio, Kubala-Sosna, Goebel High End, and the list goes on. Contact GTT Audio to learn more!
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@ddgtt You acknowledge "being in the audio business" in some but not most of your limited number of posts. I thought it was a Forums rule that you identify your business if you are in one. Maybe I am confusing the many fora I visit. Regardless, how about adding your business identity to your signature line so you don’t come across as an anonymous shill. "?" left out on purpose.
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I'm certainly not trying to hide anything. I cannot see that the AudiogoN forum has a Signature Line option. I've looked for it (from the first day I ever posted) on several occasions but perhaps I'm missing something. If you know how to do it I would be grateful for some instructions.
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So there’s this. OMA and Air Force compared. I know, compressed YouTube, but you can actually hear a difference.
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@ddgtt
I owe you an apology. I looked at other folks who are in the industry and though I thought they had a signature identifying their business affiliation, they don't.
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Dear @mattdrummer /friends: Here some design details and a few/enough magasines reviews. MF even mentioned 2-3 details vs the K3 :
SME | Model 60
R.
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Identifying yourself and affiliation in your profile and in posts is the ethical thing to do. My opinion of someone that does not drops precipitously if I have to figure it out. There may be a rule or not… but if I have to figure it out, I would never do business or recommend them to anyone.
Being identified as a dealer has a lot of advantages. It tells me that you probably have tons more experience and exposure than the average poster, it makes me read more closely and I have an instant positive impression that you are an above board / honest one.
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@mikelavigne said:
"these things happen in the USA when there are established relationships between the dealer and customer. i have experienced it multiple times. not every customer is serious minded enough to earn that sort of support. those that are deal/price focused have to find their own source of performance/value information. dealers are not bending over backward for them. on-line buying tends to reduce service. figuring that part out is one issue that has to be addressed. price negotiation is a different animal in different markets.
the high end use to be about relationships. still is in some places."
Mike- the thing that puzzles me--and I said as much on another forum-- is that the online sales model is pretty much fixed price. Yeah, it cuts out the middle man so costs might be lower, but a lot more is lost in the process.
And in almost no case where I had a long term relationship with a dealer did I pay retail- trades were taken, loaners were provided, home trial --within reason was available. Hell, when I worked with Bill Parish, I only went to his facility shortly before I left NY. He made house calls, brought over gear to let me hear, had manufacturers come over to listen, trial stuff on my system, etc. In the long run, I never found that I overpaid for all that; to the contrary, I got a level of service that made decisions, and spending far easier.
Yeah, there were some lousy dealers, but when you find one that can really deliver, treasure them. Not so easy to find today. (Though, admittedly, I’m not hanging out in hi-fi stores anymore). I do get to see Albert occasionally, though. :)
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@whart To your point about good dealers and bad dealers, there are surprisingly a lot more bad dealers than one would expect. I have had a couple of recent experiences with bad dealers. One was so rude to me that i walked out of their establishment within less than ten minutes! Why these folks think that they have to cop an attitude about the customer the minute he/she walks in the door is beyond me?? Needless to say, i bought an expensive DAC from a dealer that does care about customer service.
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Plus one on the long term value of a great dealer relationship! While I am sure one can often find a "lower" price online or by setting up a bidding war, you end up losing out on the benefits of working with someone who knows your system and will offer you advice based on their years of experience. I also suspect as one moves into the realm of the very high end levels of gear addressed in this thread, this kind of resource becomes even more important.
I am currently evaluating a $4k plus piece of signal grounding equipment that was loaned to me for the past month by the kind of dealer that inspires this kind of trust. They are out there and hopefully this forum is a good place for us to share these kinds of experiences.
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I note that you want to move away from belt drive but in my decades of experience I found that there were a number of instances when my preferred technologies of the time were outshone by a better sounding piece of gear of a different approach. A member has suggested the Acoustical Systems ASTELLAR which I would echo given my experience with the APOLYT which I wrote up:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/acoustical-systems-apolyt-turntable-the-revelation
My opinion has not changed and so great was the impression it made on me that I have had to order an APOLYT and hope to have it within the next few months. Here are some specs:
https://www.arche-headshell.de/the-apolyt/
An ancillary benefit of the APOLYT is that its integrated stand can isolate amplification in addition to the turntable. Whatever turntable you decide on I would not order without listening first. Good luck in your quest!
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