Tokyo is replete with high end dealers who allow a serious acting walk-in audiophile to spend as much time as wanted listening to various combinations of equipment. In that sense, the Japanese are about 30 years behind the US, where such opportunities have been dwindling year by year, unless you've got the earned reputation of a Mike Lavigne and you live in or near a major city.
Mike, My idea of simplicity is you press a button and the turntable is up to speed in a few seconds with no belt or string to worry about over the course of time. But I am playing in a different sandbox from yours.
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I just read the owners manual describing setup of the Supatrac. What a delightfully mid-century British device! Reminds me of putting up the convertible top on an MG TC. However the core idea of placing the pivot in the plane or below the plane of the LP surface has merit.
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If it really is up among the very best turntables, then it is rather a bargain at less than $100K. Personally I could not put up with the string, the push start, the waiting. But that’s just my preference.
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Never heard of AS2000. How long does it take a string drive to bring a 150 lb platter up to speed? I imagine one could have lunch in the interim.
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I have to apologize to OMA. My further research shows OMA funded the development under Krebs, and their industrial design group had much to do with the final form.
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Here's the thing: I like it, and you and some others don't. Yet, amazingly, we are all probably good persons. It does not trouble me that you and others do not like it. None of us can afford it anyway. Also, I don't think Richard Krebs was first and foremost striving for recognition as a creator of beautiful sculptures. I think he was following the engineering dictum: form follows function.
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Dear Raul, OMA wrote the ad copy. OMA is not really the manufacturer; they are sellers in the US. I am sure the specs could be accessed if needed. I don't feel like we disagree but perhaps you do.
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But always, always, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I still like the looks of the K3. I even like the Schroeder arm that goes with it. Both harken back to Art Deco designs of the 30s. If you don't like Art Deco, that's OK with me. I also like the GW and Golden Gate bridges that share a certain look with the Schroeder.
Now that thing in your photo? I find it rather off-putting; the tonearms and the big feet seem to form a barrier around the platter, where I have to get to in order to deal with the LP. I don't fancy two-arm TTs, because the rear mounted tonearm is difficult to manipulate and because it is very difficult also to clean the stylus of the cartridge mounted at the rear.
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I think Richard Krebs used the SP10 mk3 as his benchmark when designing and developing the K3. So it’s quite likely to exceed SP10 Mk3 and SP10R specs in its performance. Still, it is surprising that OMA don’t publish specs.
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In the case of the Esoteric, the rotating magnetic motor is outside the circumference of the platter, as in a conventional rim drive. But the skirt around the circumference of the platter itself is ferromagnetic in order to respond to the driver. One has to assume that Esoteric engineers accounted for potential issues, one of which would not be to induce up and down motion of the cartridge, I think.
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Mike, I finally found a good diagram or anatomical drawing of the workings of the Esoteric, on your thread on WBF. That drawing is worth a thousand words. Now I see how it works. It is a rim drive where nothing touches the rim, which is probably what you were trying to say. Until now, I envisioned that the motor was situated directly well below the platter such that the rotating magnets were concentric with the platter itself, as is the case for the Transrotor TMD and the EAR Disc Master, where in both of those cases the rotating magnet structure is driven by a belt from an outboard motor. In shorthand, the Esoteric is a contact-less rim drive.
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Performance notwithstanding, I find it interesting that some would reject the K5 based on its looks alone. In my eyes, at least, it is a relatively bling-less design. Do we want "some" bling, but not too much, for our megabucks? I see it as an homage to Art Deco, and I like Art Deco.
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“Mr Krebs had considerable influence.” How ironic! The K5 and K3 are Richard Krebs’s babies, completely. OMA has marketing in the USA. OMA may have had input on superficial cosmetics and on pricing. Richard worked to perfect the K5 for more than a decade.
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Dear Mike, I certainly would not wish to criticize the Esoteric, sight unheard or any other way. But I do beg to differ from what you wrote above, in response to my claim that the Esoteric "magnetic drive" system is naught but a direct drive where the rotor is in effect moved away from the stator:
You wrote, "no. not a direct drive. a direct drive turntable has the motor directly connected to the platter. an idler pushes. it pushes the inside of the platter, or the outside of the platter (rim drive idler). my Saskia, and the Garrard i use to own, both pushed the inside of the platter with an idler wheel. the Esoteric T1 pushes the bottom outside of the platter magnetically. a motor turns a wheel which magnetically causes the platter to turn with a magnetized bottom ring on the platter. in fact the platter and plinth have zero physical connection to the motor assembly. there is nothing direct about it in any way, shape or form."
Yes, I agree that the Esoteric is not purely a direct drive turntable in its simplest form. And I certainly do know the various forms that an idler drive can take, save for any experience with the Esoteric. But since the Esoteric drive system is not in contact with the platter, I would never think of it as an Idler Drive type at all. The Esoteric, so far as I can tell has most in common with Transrotor TMD, which is not new, and second most in common with direct drive, where also "the platter and plinth have zero physical connection to the motor assembly". This is true of any and all direct drive turntables. However, the typical direct drive places the complete drive system (stator and rotor) right below the platter which does open the possibility for EMI to affect the audio signal. The Esoteric drive system moves the source of EMI a bit further away from the platter, probably preventing any sort of EMI from interfering with the signal. Same for the Transrotor TTs with TMD. The trade-off for that immunity might be less rigid control of the platter, or more compliance in the drive system, compared to a DD. Of that, I do not know. I do know there is no free lunch. No criticism of the Esoteric is intended; I drooled over it when I saw it in Tokyo mostly for its beautiful construction and the typical Esoteric craftsmanship.
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Mike, I saw the Esoteric on display at various hi-fi emporia in Tokyo, last spring. Very beautifully made, as one might expect. I wonder why you describe it as a "magnetic drive idler", since according to the Fremer review there is no conventional idler wheel, and the platter is driven by magnetic induction, such that the drive force is applied at a distance from the platter. (In other words, this is a direct drive turntable by another name, differing from true conventional direct drive only in the fact that the rotating magnetic field is not directly under the platter, which I suppose does eliminate the chance for EMI to affect the signal at the cartridge.) Doesn't Transrotor offer something like this? I think they call it "TMD" or some other 3-letter acronym.
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