leadcrew-
YOU win the internet.
The thread is about Ted's view on EVH and R&R, that's it.
I saw Ted in 76, at his peak (IMO)before his "Cat Scratch Fever" and later rubbish.
UGH...The tired, "BEST" Rock guitarist thread
Only because I found a REALLY good copy of terrible Ted's debut(his best IMO) yesterday, I'm sharing this one. Ted describing the electric guitar God hierarchy gets my vote. I tapped out after Dog Eat Dog(before Derek St Holmes was dropped.) Those 2 albums and early Amboy Dukes still sound great to me.
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"I can listen to all curated VH in random; Fire In The Hole" fuzztone- I tried to listen VH after their 2nd album, but quickly lost interest. VH was still a great band, but just wasn't my thing. I also found the Sammy Halen thing of no interest, while I dig his Montrose years. Larsman, you're reading way too much into my comments. I simply agree with Ted's assessment of EVH's gift of guitar, and what it stood for-nothing more. No social issues involved.
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@tablejockey - Why should we ignore somebody's opinion because they are in entertainment or the arts? Should we also ignore the opinions of computer programmers? Farmers? Uber drivers? Musicians and entertainers are human beings just like everybody else - some are smart, some are not; they are not machines that exist for the purpose of keeping people entertained, and their opinions are just as valid as anybody else's as long as they're kept as opinions and do not incite violence. Some opinions I agree with, some opinions I find contemptible, but there you go. If you propose ignoring certain people's opinions in order to make the world a little calmer (a fine ideal, of course), everybody should ignore everybody else's opinions except their own. Don't know how desirable that would be even if it was possible. |
@tablejockey I didn't want to drag your thread off topic into such things. I was prompted to respond as ignoring hate as merely opinion is a dangerous thing. It can be an opinion that someone thinks taxes should be spent a certain way, that some music is better than other types, tubes vs. solid state, etc.. But hatred and the rising violence and anger it breeds is not opinion. It's deep-seated mental illness at best, and outright evil at worst. As I said, normalizing it instead of treating it as the toxic disease on society it is will let it grow, rather than be eventually cured. We only need look to the (yet another) shooting in Buffalo to see the cost, the absolute agony those who's loved ones were murdered simply for being the wrong color are living through. |
@jet88 I agree that estimations of a musician's character can affect listener's estimation of their music and/or talent. Ted has put himself out there front and center, you'd have to be a hermit to not know his character. he became far more a political figure that artist at some point in his life. His talent or lack of same really doesn't matter to me anymore.
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@grannyring Anger? If you find calling an accomplished black man a subhuman mongrel and making threats to kill him(not that he would have, Ted is a coward like all his ilk) just a point of view, no, not anger but disgust and sadness. That man was Barack Obama, who had the audacity to become President. Good old Ted has made his angry hatred and racism quite a platform to remain relevant among the terrible people who hold the same 'views'. And that's just a part of his awfulness. Misogyny and more.... Of course, he is free to have his warped views but that doesn't mean people have to accept it. I imagine I'd get banned from here pretty quick were I to spout the vile garbage Ted does. This isn't about politics or different opinions, it's about being a good human being. Normalizing such things by saying it's ok is not something any decent person should support. |
@wolf_garcia + 1. You beat me to it! |
@fpbpbm - when I worked in a record store in the 70's, one of my friends there was a real big Les Dudek fan. He was a fine guitarist indeed.... |
Clearthinker must have spent an enormous amount of time interviewing 20-somethings to make such a blanket statement about ALL of them. And as far as I'm concerned, music coming from digital workstations is every bit as valid as coming from a gee-tar and requires a great deal of skill to do well. Whichever it is, if it doesn't serve the song/composition and is just there to impress about what a good musician you are, not interested. |
"All 20 somethings think all good musicians are irrelevant." Like many things, such a statement isn't true. It's just 20 something musicians and very few 20 something non musicians who do. "But I wouldn't put Nugent in the top 1000 guitarists." clearthinker-the screename and your replies don't seem to correlate. The video clearly defines the thread. It's about Ted opinion of who took post Classic Rock guitar to the next level, which was EVH.
Funny how the thread subject quickly turned into the ridiculous "best" it wasn't intended to be. |
@tablejockey - Marky was not in the original lineup. Tommy was the original drummer, and he's on 'Rocket to Russia', which is also my favorite of their's.... |
There's no questioning EvH's brilliance as a musician. He was the real deal, although he probably didn't produce music equivalent to his talent level. On the other hand Ted Nugent as a guitar player is a footnote. A fine entertainer, but his playing is run of the mill. Compare him to Rick Derringer, Steve Hunter, Angus Young, James Gurley, Eddie Hazel, Joe Walsh, Jim McCarty, Dick Wagner, Stephen Stills, Jeff Baxter, Leslie West, Michael Monarch, James Mankey or Jerry Miller. |
I got heat from my wannabe punk band members because I just could not do Johnny Ramone's all down-stroke guitar style for more than a few measures at a time. The band leader put me down for being a surf guitarist. The trouble was that I was the only member who could provide a regular place to practice. |
Well, the thread is totally off topic, but what the heck... "saw Joe Pass in the mid 70s" wolf_garcia-Yes! My guitar teach and I saw Joe at the local college in the late 70's. I wish I could have seen Barney Kessel- an original "wrecking crew" player before there was the "wrecking crew." "A good time was had by all at a Ramones gig" larsman- I was fortunate to catch the original lineup with Marky, and with Richie. I thought the Ramones were in "Jumped the Shark" territory with the R&R High School movie appearance. For me, they peaked at the Rocket to Russia album. Hardcore guitar guys would question Johnny's guitar ability, but playing the way he did consistently is tough. I can't play all downstrokes the way he did! Johnny Ramone- master of 2 minute- 1,2,3 4 count off songs!
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@edcyn - Joey, Johnny, and DeeDee were there the whole time; Tommy was the original drummer, than Marky.... A good time was had by all at a Ramones gig! |
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My favorite quote about shredding guitar players was Zappa, "It's not a pushup contest." I met Hendrix, opened for Zep, blah blah...most moving guitar playing I've ever heard? Jesse Ed Davis was in town (Honolulu) for a while (I actually loaned him a Fender Vibroverb for some recording thing he was doing) and he sat in with a band I knew for a simple blues jam...I'll never forget it. For me the jazz world has the most interesting players...Julian Lage, John Scofield...like that...saw Joe Pass in the mid 70s...man... |
A truly prime selection of fret flyers. But I'm also partial toward the punk/new-wave generation. The Ramones (I'll never remember their individual first names) remain underappreciated and unsurpassed for their unanimity and sheer enthusiasm & passion. No band ever sounded happier to be playing what they were playing. |
"I don't generally go along with the concept of 'best': larsman- I agree. Musicianship isn't the same as the fastest sprinter or athletic endeavor. It is however, interesting to hear an opinion from a polarizing guy as Ted, who does have cred to make such a statement. The non relevant straying is....TIRED, as the title says. |
Every band can have off night. One of the WORST concerts I ever saw, Moody Blues, mid 70's last show of long tour. I thought they'd go out with big bang, instead went out with a snooze. I can imagine Mahavishnu would also greatly benefit from a sympathetic sound system, John's studio albums display a pretty 'crunchy' sound from his guitar, very biting at times. So, the best concerts ally good sound quality with performance intensity, involvement, this was far too rare in my big concert going days.
Speaking of live concerts and previous mention of Zappa, saw him three times in George Duke era, Frank was way underrated guitarist. Funniest thing, Frank was big chain smoker at the time, could swear he had cigarette going on all concert long non-stop, when it came time for solos, lit cig stashed up in headstock.
Since OP meant this for uncool leads, how bout another round of Free Bird. My recollection of that era was the constant rotation of the same songs on FM, that made even cool songs into uncool songs for me. Stairway to Heaven another example, could think of far more. I bet they continue to play the same overplayed songs on today's classic rock stations. |
I'll keep the thread off topic since the mentions are cool artists. This is just breakfast time filler anyway. John Mclaughlin IS one of the original guitar "shredders" before the term "shred." As a guitar wanker, always hypnotized listening /watching someone play a million notes with the space of 1. There are plenty of players that can do that, but Mclaughlin is one of the few to get away with it. I especially like his world/Indian CD release. Great live album. Maybe a good audiophool showoff for those into that sort of thing.
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@crustycoot Mahavishnu John McLaughlin did have it all. Carlo and John together, just wow! Larry Coryell another great in the Fusion genre. In more straight rock genre, I also very much enjoy dual leads such as Allman Bros., Wishbone Ash, Quicksilver Messenger Service. Rodney Stewart had a fair share of very nice leads, Jeff Beck and Ronnie Wood to name a couple. My fav Stones lead, Mick Taylor, saw him live after splitting with band, very very nice.
The other thing I'd add about leads in general, is while we often think of solos when thinking about leads, its the small gestures and flourishes when in background that make a great lead as much or more than the solos.
Funny thing about leads, I notice much of today's youth don't care for guitars in the manner spoken of here. Very few guitar solos and guitars way down in mix. Synths dominate. Rock only a very small genre today, best guitar players have long been migrating to other genres. OP original post reflects this present state, mentioning "tired", which is apt due to what will likely be the same old rehashing of mostly long gone bands and leads. |
Mastery, passion, intelligence, creative genius, humility, and modesty...Mahavishnu John McLaughlin had it all. With Miles and then with MO...transcendent. But maybe you don't count him as "Rock". IMO Hendrix was the greatest in Rock history in that case. Beck, Page, Clapton, FZ (and Dweezil), SRV, EVH, Larry Carleton, you name it...none contributed as much to the development of "Rock" as Jimi did in his too short life on the scene. |
The title implies one of those silly, chest pounding, insert the name threads, BUT is clarified with Theodore talking about Eddie. Since Whitefish1175 decided to jack the thread with something completely UNRELATED, I'll pile on to it. Along with my Teddy LP, I got this-: Jean Luc Ponty Play the music of Frank Zappa-excellent!
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@russ69 +1
Think the focus was on EVH ... not the Nuge...
He will burn your house down though ... sayin |