Tuner - FM over the air - suggestions

our cable company started somehow blocking FM from their signal, used to be great source.

@curtdr 

Sangean, I have it listed under my system. I live 40 miles out of Austin in the hill country and yet the supplied cable antenna works flawlessly for multiple stations. The sound on some digital stations is spectacular for radio, maybe 80% from streamer quality. Highly recommended for under $200.

most people are amazed how good over the air TV signals are. they assume cable is better.

another reason to use a TV antenna for FM.

We lost power/cable for 8 days during superstorm Sandy, no cable and I had removed the old antenna from the chimney, nada.

I put a new one on the chimney. Next time was IRENE, cable gone, me and my little generator and my OTA TV antenna got us amazingly clear TV for the 2 weeks without power.

Thank god somebody mentioned getting a good antenna, and putting it up in the attic. I am still kicking myself for not doing this until this year. Fiddled with a number of tuners and indoor antennas. If you don't have a good signal the rest is crap. But I live in the middle of now where.

 

 Also, OTA doesn't cost, in spite of the commercials. Streaming doesn't seem like much of a bargain to me. NPR is still free.

Bob Carver is a genius, unique FM patents.

Mine did not have remote, this model does

 

others of his probably exist with remotes. they are terrific

this one, preamp with tuner, read the small print https://www.ebay.com/itm/134230115648?hash=item1f40bd0540:g:BcYAAOSwmYFjH69s

has remote https://www.ebay.com/itm/275451163068?hash=item40222b31bc:g:VMYAAOSw1uljGRMN

start with a great antenna/strong signal. I put a large TV antenna in the attic just for FM (all FM is between channel 6 and 7 I think). Hung from strings from rafters. Aimed at WBGO's antenna which turns out to be in NYC I learned here.

 

 

I hope you like commercials!! Current over the air raiding ain’t what you remember it being 10 years ago. All the stations are owned by three corporate conglomerates. In the chicago are you can tune to four stations back and forth to hear the same artist or songs at the same time. Then a commercial break starts so you think you can go to another station to not hear them? Nope they all run commercials at the same time. Then like tv you are lucky to get 35 minutes of music per hour. 

@mahler123 "but prefer the digital feed, which is crisper and not prone to weather related dropouts" or when the basement of the Willis Tower gets flooded, and the 98.7 FM signal temporarily goes off the air (May 2020). 

@mahler123 Thank you for helping me prove my point. WFMT is a perfect example of comparing OTA real world FM tuner reception audio reproduction vs a station's webstream audio feed. In this equation are two different audio processors, and audio processor settings; in addition to FM reception electrical interference, the listener's FM tuner performance, and FM transmitter audio performance (just like all audio gear, an FM transmitter's exciter also has audio performance specifications, which also factors into what goes out over the air). Let's also not forget how a radio station's STL (Studio Transmitter Link - the method by which a radio station gets its audio to a remote transmitter site) can also affect OTA audio performance, as it relies on many pieces of digital equipment, and an internet connection, to get that signal to the Willis Tower transmitter site. My only beef with WFMT's webstream audio is that (IMO) it is rather dense (or thick), and bass heavy, with some limiting and compression, compared to the original source audio. This is easily noticeable for those of us with discerning ears.     

I'm in Chicago, I can get WFMT over the air with the tuner in my AVR (Anthem MX520) but prefer the digital feed, which is crisper and not prone to weather related dropouts

@yyzsantabarbara In 2019, KCRW moved into their new $38 million state-of-the-art radio broadcast and media headquarters. So their broadcasting signal is very impressive (noticable improvement) & the sound engineers are top notch. I tried streaming KCRW HD and I prefer listening to KCRW via my FM tuner...sounds 'natural'. Hope this answers your question.

@phish_tacos What do you think of the quality of the KCRW on air signal? I love it. Have you compared it to the KCRW stream, I dislike it. The KCRW HD stream is awful.

Mind you I am getting the signal from a re-transmitter from Santa Barbara and we have the ocean on 1 side and mountains on the other. Not too many LEDs in these parts.

 

I live in Los Angeles & enjoy listening to two FM public radio stations: KCRW 89.9 and KLON Jazz 88.1. The tuners I currently use are the Grundig Fine Arts T-903 and Parasound Ztuner V.2. They are both hooked up via coaxial cable split to a mini digital television antenna that I  installed in my basement and the signal is perfect.  They’re both great tuners and can be purchased at a low price in the used gear market. Hope this info helps.

dpop

FM reception these days can be very noisy. That's another reason why OTA audio processing is kept aggressive, to mask that noise. Another factor is FM stereo performance, which at best has a S/N ratio of -65 dB. If the same station has a decent high bandwidth stream, that S/N can be closer to -80 dB, or even -90 dB ...

Yes, digital has the s/n advantage, but it's of little value when the signal is lo-res lossy digital, which most radio streams are. (Yes, there are some exceptions, as you note. For example, Radio Paradise has great SQ, although it has no OTA signal.))

FM stereo reception and performance is not really as "high quality" as it is sometimes portrayed. It may be convenient, but it is rarely a high quality medium these days. 

That's true - most FM audio is w-a-y over processed, and the HD signal can create noise in the analog signal. But there are notable exceptions.

@cleeds You'll have no argument from me regarding HD radio. 

>>>The truth is that the stream of most radio stations is very lossy mp3 quality.<<<

With all due respect, in some (not all) cases, you are correct, but in many cases, you are not. One of the bigger problems plaguing radio reception these days (AM more than FM) is electrical interference. If you want an extremely clean FM signal, you now have to jump though hoops to capture it. Most LED lighting these days emits RFI that extends into the FM band. Now, for us audiophiles, begin to weigh that factor into the equation. I know I have, when critically listening to the stations I engineer (or have engineered). FM reception these days can be very noisy. That's another reason why OTA audio processing is kept aggressive, to mask that noise. Another factor is FM stereo performance, which at best has a S/N ratio of -65 dB. If the same station has a decent high bandwidth stream, that S/N can be closer to -80 dB, or even -90 dB (if the audio signal path is kept clean). FM stereo reception and performance is not really as "high quality" as it is sometimes portrayed. It may be convenient, but it is rarely a high quality medium these days. 

The truth is that the stream of most radio stations is very lossy mp3 quality. So even if the stream has less processing than OTA, the sound suffers. Same with so-called "HD" radio. It's not high definition at all, but lossy digital. And that's why FM still has some appeal.

@dpop I understood the issue you brought up previously since I have always been a fan of FM radio and had been very disappointed in the last 2 decades with the state of radio.

When I moved down to Southern Cal and discovered KCRW my faith in radio and new music was restored. I bought a FM HD radio to hear what that stream sounded like on the Sony XDR tuner I mentioned previously (it is both HD and FM). The over the air HD stream of the broadcast was awful and the over the air FM great.

So maybe my listening experience is reflective of the KCRW HD stream quality that could be also what is sent via the internet.

In the past when streaming was first starting up I jumped all over internet radio but I thought it sounded awful. Today, I am all in again on radio, with 4 tuners, because I have 2 stations that sound great on the tuners.

Since I had not listened to the KCRW stream for ages. I added the stream to my ROON client just now and played it from my Musetec 005 DAC. I A/B with my tuner. The DAC is connected by XLR to my preamp and the tuner is by RCA, so the advantage is to the DAC (the way I hear RCA vs XLR).

The stream sounds a little dead and flat to me. The top end is MIA on the stream compared to the on air FM. You maybe correct about the sound volume boost on the on air FM, since my RCA source (tuner) is louder than the streamed to DAC XLR source. However, the sound coming out of the speakers when adjusted for volume favors the on air FM to my ears.

Anyways, this is just one station and maybe others are different, but this station is the only one that matters to me. I have 4 tuners to give me great music from this station. So the story ends well for me.

 

 

 

 

@dpop  thank you for your insights, and I think I can trust your Teac suggestion which I appreciate.  I can't wait to try it out when I get back to Pasadena.

@yyzsantabarbara Audio reproduction is very subjective. What you may think sounds right to you, may not sound right to me, and so on. Audio processing on radio is the same. Some listeners think balls to the wall processing sounds better to them, than a lightly processed radio station (lightly meaning you're hearing more dynamic range, and audio that's closer to the original source). Having been (and still kind of am) a Radio Broadcast Engineer, I could talk your ears off on this subject. The truth of the matter is that 99% of radio stations use separate audio processors for their webstream audio, and OTA (over the air) audio. The OTA processor is usually cranked full tilt to compensate for road noise, and achieving ratings; so that audio will be highly processed, and considered by most to be consistently loud (and not very close to the original source). Since most radio stations don't want to spend $10,000 on a webstream audio processor (like they do for their OTA audio processor), because radio stations do not make any money (95% of the time) off of their stream audio, you'll find that most radio station stream's audio is closer to the source, and not as highly processed as the OTA audio. Now, which do you prefer? This gets down to the individual taste of the listener. Many are not looking for audio quality (I will guarantee you that) - they just want to *hear* their radio station. The weak link in radio station webstreams is the amount of bandwidth they are willing to pay for. If you have a high quality system, try listening to high bit rate webstream audio from: BBC Radio 3 (which uses no audio processing), WCPE, KCSM, WMSE, and even WECK (these are just a few examples). When I was working for commercial radio stations, I always processed my/our radio station's webstream audio channels more lightly and uniquely, as compared to our OTA audio, so that if listeners were looking for higher audio quality, they had an alternative choice. Radio station webstream audio, and OTA audio, will rarely ever sound exactly the same.   

Could it be Arizona University's KUAT (90.5

That's Tucson and comes in strong. The Green Valley station must have changed. 

Over the air FM sounds so much better where I live than streaming. I am currently listening to a classic rock station on a refurbished Accuphase T-101 tuner and I am just blown away at how good it sounds. I was thinking that is is almost as good as CD.

At 9AM - 12PM I switch to the incredible KCRW(,com) on my Magnum Dynalab 108T tuner. That is also incredible and KILLS the same steam of that stations broadcast. This station likes to play albums when available. One time a DJ on KCRW stopped a song half way and apologized to say he was playing a bad version and he had a better vinyl pressing to play instead. These guys love music.

FM streaming is awful compared to what I hear over the airways.

I have 2 cheaper tuners (not really used at the moment) that are not too expensive. A modified $500 Sony XDR tuner (Welcome - About - Contact (xdrguy.com)). You need a very good RCA interconnect to really bring this to life.

The other tuner is a Sansui 9090 tuner I got for $750. It was refurbished and sounds really good. Not as good as the Accuphase and MD 108T but damn fine for the price.

 

Magnum Dynalab.

Used mine every day for the past 30 years.

Very musical component.

And get one of their ST-2 antennas, regardless of which tuner you get.

Enjoy!

 

Great suggestions!  You folks really have a lot of good ideas.  

In addition to the freebie Pioneer (thanks again!), I really like the looks of the refurbed Dynalab, the Galaxy, and the Teac...  The Dynalab is probably the most "upscale" but they all would do the job I'm looking for in my prospective environments.  

@dpop  I did find the teac 670 on ebay new old stock NOS w all the trimmings: remote, manual, antennae, unit.  Looks mint and fits the aesthetic and intent:  $107 incl taxes and shipping,... so I snagged one, I mean why not, it's under my budget, it's a brand I like, and between it and the Pioneer I think I'll be all set until the whole world goes digital which will be a few years away here in U.S. anyway.

Thank you again, all of you.

Ocean Digital WR10 internet radio tuner, wifi enabled, local stations as well as many radio stations oversea's. 

@curtdr I noticed that you're looking for a tuner with a remote control. One such tuner would be the Teac model TR-670. You can always find them used for under $100 on ebay - just make sure the particular one you're looking at has the remote control that goes with it (you might have to message the seller to make 100% sure about this).

Another option may be the Galaxy Audio RM-RDSTNR AM/FM Tuner with Radio Data System.

Galaxy Audio RM-RDSTNR AM/FM Tuner with Radio Data System

@curtdr Could it be Arizona University's KUAT (90.5 & 89.7)?

having been reading this thread, just hooked up my recently serviced Yamaha T-2 and having a great time...it's simply fun, and I love vintage tuners...

@russ69 

Good tip on the Green Valley station... do you know the station #?  

GV is just south of Tusc, and I'll be, if I move there, north in Oro Valley, but it's not that far so I bet a half-decent tuner, like that Pioneer I've been offered, will pull it in.

@ghdprentice

It’s getting hot all over the SW, though... and Tucson is better off than PHX or Vegas for water, as T gets more rain and still has enough aquifers to last my lifetime, anyway, and it’s substantially cooler than PHX too. I might consider Reno area, Oregon is out (can’t stand the rain nor the culture). Pasadena good... sort of... but it does have grid problems and many other L.A. problems... plus my Pasadena house is crazy valuable and will set me up for life if/when I sell it so if it’s too hot in Tucson (Oro Valley, north of T, is my prospective destination... misnomer though, not really a valley and is actually higher elev than T) for a couple months I’ll be able to rent a cabin up top of Catalina Mtns or just enjoy my Minn lake place. As for the grid, it’s also an issue all over the SW, and I’ll be going big-time solar system if I move to OV, including getting a couple storage batteries in a few years after this next exponential leap in battery tech kicks in, and a car charger in the garage for a plug-in hybrid, get myself substantially independent and selling power back to the grid. Most of the year, Oro Valley has paradisical weather, lots to do (amenities and clubs in the Sun City neighborhood), and easy living. If I miss CA, I’ll have enough $$ to hop on a plane, fly into Burbank or San Diego, and kick it for a few days.

Thus my current line of thinking... and another reason to be reasonably frugal with my stereo hobby -- I’d rather invest an extra 10k into my solar system, like getting the batteries for example, than straight up spending it on high price stereo gear since what I’m getting at "budget audiophile" prices is exciting, excellent and satisfactory... sure, a $20k amp or speakers is nice, but not MORE nice enough for me to go "beyond" (if that) what I’m currently rocking. I'd rather bolster the solar and/or my Vanguard mutual funds stash...

Thus, a modest tuner to go w my Marantz Ruby - Klipsch Heresy IV - Epi system, plus another $3k maybe to experiment with Q Acoustics Concept 50 or the Polk r700... that’ll be all done then. After that, it’s just enjoy it all for many years.

OP,

I lived in Tucson for 25 years. I loved it.

You do know it is ground zero for climate change? Water problems as they are mining irreplaceable ground water… etc. We reached the tipping point for climate change a few years ago and the heat is getting worse and much longer. I don’t know how the electrical grid is holding up.

There are lots of forecast maps published showing the expected increasing heat and other effects. These are probably underestimated.

 

Something to consider.

 

 

@curtdr Might be moving to Tucson, AZ

Green Valley has a really good classical station. I'm not a huge classical fan but my tuner is on more than any other source. Local, good quality, ease of use. 

@tablejockey

thank you for the Sony receiver suggestion, it’s a good one, amazing for the money really... I actually have that exact model of Sony receiver up at my Minnesota lake cabin, playing a Pandora shuffle over an old iphone and cds via a legacy JVC cd changer through updated Epi m50 "The Mite" speakers that sit on my fireplace mantle reinforced modestly through a judiciously placed compact Pinnacle sub down in the corner where I store the firewood, and that Sony does an admirable job in that setting.

The tuner is for my setup back in Pasadena, which has a Marantz Ruby as the heart amp. I could hook up the excellent Marantz nr1200 to the Ruby and use that as my tuner (and streamer for that matter), but the nr1200 is designated for office duties.

@jl35

I’ll look into that! I’m into refurbished gear and other such bargains.  And the MD tuners look amazing, even their oldest one which is aprox $300 refurbished and would probably be all I'd need.  

I'm going to start with that free Pioneer that's been offered, and that'll take the edge off the hunt and will mitigate for my purposes for now... that said, that MD suggestion is very interesting and I'm still looking for more suggestions based on my budget and purposes.  The Pioneer will work in my circumstances, but eventually radio, like TV is likely to go all digital... however, in the meantime, over the air on the Pioneer, here I come!

I’m appreciating all the suggestions I’m getting here! Thank you!

 

Based on what you've mentioned, just get one of these, hook it up and push on "on" button

Sony STR-DH190 Stereo Receiver STRDH190 B&H Photo Video (bhphotovideo.com)

if you don't want vintage, Magnum Dynalab sells their excellent refurbished tuners with warranty...

paradisecom

Why not just stream any station you like?  Why be restricted to the 1 or 2 that might be available where you live?

The fidelity of OTA audio is almost always better than streamed radio. Once set up, you can't beat the convenience of a good tuner.

There are many available over the air where I live, and streaming is an option but as I state I'd like to have the option to tune in over the air as well.  When I had a tuner I found myself frequently just hitting "on" and enjoying it all day long.  I'd like to be free of internet necessity and sometimes prefer old school radio, like I often enjoy over the air TV and don't even have cable tv nor netflix... 

Why not just stream any station you like?  Why be restricted to the 1 or 2 that might be available where you live?

If I had $500 to spend I'd look for a McIntosh MR74 or MR77.

@curiousjim

Heck yeah, why not? It’d get me started at the very least...!  OK, I think I sent you a message about it.  Thank you very much!  

@curtdr 

I have an older Pioneer TX-950 tuner you can have, you pay shipping.

JD

I’m in an urban area, currently Pasadena, CA. KUSC over the air would be nice.

Might be moving to Tucson, AZ area within a couple years, so still relatively urban/suburban and I imagine Univ of AZ has a decent classical station...

I think I'm leaning towards newer or even new instead of vintage, and I think the HD option is nice but not crucial.  I understand there are a lot of internet options out there and could just use my new Bluesound node for that, but I'm just looking for the simple idea of an over the air fm tuner that does the job casually and easily and with it's own rca input on amp to easily select it rather than needing to mess with anything else other than power on, input select (ease of use for other non-audiophile folks in the household too).

Head on over to fmtunerinfo.com and take the time to peruse the reviews and recommendations. Then, you can hone your search by hitting the internet for deals.

All the best,
Nonoise

Do you live in an urban area with many strong signals? Or, perhaps a rural area where you'll need a highly sensitive tuner?

This Linn looks nice.