Well, I still have my tube amps but if I need a SS change of pace, I insert a McCormack DNA-1 into the system. It paired well with a pair of Vandersteen 3A's (since sold), a pair of Snell Type J II's and my Altec 846A Valencia's.
All great points Granny. I assume what Paravicini means is he can build a SS amp that sounds just like any of HIS tube amps. Including how it interacts with it's input (source), and it's output load (loudspeakers)? Given the output impedance of power tubes I don't know how, but I'm not Tim! He's a pretty clever fellow, and I have no reason to doubt him.
Grannyring, when I google "Western Electric 16 gauge NOS stranded and tinned" it comes up on eBay as "NOS Western Electric KS14GA RED Tinned copper stranded wire 6meter". Is this the wire you are buying? Thanks Jet
He also sells black cloth covered wire which is the same wire. Do not terminate and just use the bare wire for best sound. I used two runs per pole for best sound. One run is very good, but two gives more body and bass and is perfect! I used a slight twist every 2 or so inches.
The Belden 8402 IC cable referred to in the blog is also a must Jet. Combine the two for sonic magic. The tandem is sublime and easily bested any high dollar wire I have owned.
Here is where to purchase the Belden cable. They will make a set to the length you want and build them the exact way the famous amp builder from Japan builds them as referred to in Jeff Day's blog. They take about 30 hours to break in and are natural and beautiful sounding. I know this wire is all stranded and tinned, I usually run from both these attributes in wire. I cannot explain it, but this wire destroyed my past notions and experiences with stranded and tinned wire.
Mine are built with the shield connected on both ends as are Jeff Day's. The result will make you smile big. They start off just a tad bright, but quickly sound so natural and beautiful with the WE speaker wire.
http://btpa.com/IC8402-XX.html
One last point on the WE wire. Don't buy other WE wire thinking a thicker gauge, solid core, or whatever version of WE you think may be better. The 16ga stranded is the wire that has been confirmed as special. Folks seem to want to stray from proven performance and that is fine once you have experienced the 16ga wire. I had to fight the impulse to use some other WE 14ga etc....
I had $2000 speaker cables that I loved and were and are special sounding. It took me awhile to find them and they are very highly reviewed. The WE wire easily bested them at $1.49 foot. Same with the ICs.
Jeff Day used the solid core silver in silk Sablon wire and now uses the WE. My audio buddies have also sold off expensive cables for WE. I cannot recall an audio experience as surprising as these two wires/cables. I am still shaking my head wondering how the heck......
The thing is both of these wires are no longer made. Once these sellers are out that is it! The WE wire is from the 70s and 80s and I am not sure about the Belden.
The burn in time is not long, but they do need 25-30 hours to sound their best. I also find when used together you get the magic! The sum of the two is greater than the individual wire sonically.
I ordered 64 ft of the 16gauge Western electric black from the 70's. Will order the Belden soon. This will be fun to see if it can better my Audio Note 86 stand Lexus. Thanks Grannyring!
Thanks Grannyring. I just ordered 32' of the black WE cable and they only had 31' so I bought that and will make do. Also bought a pair of the IC's to try out. Love these prices! We'll see how it sounds in my system. 😎
So the tube amp lovers to ss thread ends up about wire? No offense Granny but why not start a thread about this wire at a buck 49 a foot? You've got me curious as well but I do believe that the thread has been officially hijacked. Your contribution in your first post is excellent but how does wire come into play to the original question? In respect to the OP I think it needs to get back on topic, or at least a bit closer.
I was asked a question on one of my comments that's all. I gave an answer. As an aside, I do not buy into the notion of "hijacking" here. Right and left turns are common and just fine with me. No crime here, just normal and acceptable meandering in these threads. All good.
No crime, plenty of turns, quite typical. Again, excellent post just that all subsequent posts since yours pertained to the wire, that all. YOU brought up the wire and its like having a conversation with someone about a topic and all of a sudden the subject is changed to something completely unrelated, certainly not unusual on this site. I get your excitement and think maybe you should start a thread. No foul no harm.
I guess you lost me. The point of my post was " things to ponder" as related to the poster's question. I mentioned the wire in the context of how it can make one smile with its tube like sound. How it, wire, plays a role in the resulting sound of an amp and a system. Wire can certainly help an SS amp sound more tube like. I suggest this wire can help a good SS amp sound as such. It is on point and not unrelated in the least.
Perhaps you think I gave to much detail on this original post and that I can understand.
To help get us back on track I will post on this wire in a new thread. I am finding the Lector VM200 hybrid amp to be very tube like. I know it has two signal tubes, but it does sound like a full-on tube output amp.
"07-20-15: Mikey8811 "07-19-15: Zd542 I use Ayre in my system and and think it sounds different than what your friends say"
What is your system? I tried searching your posts but couldn't work it out."
Sorry. I just saw your question. The point I was trying make was that even though your friends and I have different opinions on the same component, doesn't make either one of us right or wrong. Its just the nature of audio, especially when you are dealing with revealing components.
As for my system, I actually have 2. My main one is an Ayre Vandersteen combo, and my other I put together with some gear I had that wasn't in use. Its a Wilson/VAC combo. I can see why, if you were reading some of my other posts, it would be confusing to try figure out my system.
The OP didn't specify if his question was restricted to those switching from a tubed power amp, preamp or both. I previously owned a tube preamp which I ran with a ss power amp as I do like a little tube magic. The amp which struck the right balance for me between tube and ss virtues is my current amp; a Vitus SIA-025. Vitus class A amps sound quite unique as they are so pure and mellifluous, yet at the same time controlled and resolving. I have a sensitive ear, and Vitus is one of the few amps I can listen to for hours without fatigue.
Tubegroover, Grannyring brought up an important point about differences in wire affecting SS and Tube sound. No harm, no foul. A question was asked and answered appropriately by Grannyring.
Do yourself a favor, buy this combo of wire. I bet you'll be selling your high priced speaker/interconnect just as I did. You should read the Day Blog thoroughly whether a SS or Tubegroover as I am.
Shirokazu Yazaki-san, the designer of a SS integrated (SPEC), reviewed by Day at Positive Feedback is the gentleman who let everyone know about this wire combination through Day's blog. Yazaki-san is also a major 300B Maven in Japan, both as designer and builder; he has a unique point of view that just might get you closer to "real sound."
Grannyring, please start that other thread. Best all, Rob
I still listen to my unison 845 integrated,but when it comes to solid state I listen to my YBA 600 power amp and my YBA 100 passion integrated very tube like sound.
Spectral does it for me. However it must be a complete system. I have enjoyed full tube system for decades until I finally broke down and did the whole Spectral/ MIT system. Really enjoy it, especially with analog.
I never had the pleasure of hearing an all-Spectral system. However, I did once own a Spectral preamp and my memory of it was anything but "tube like."
Thanks for your input and emphasizing that it needs to be a Spectral system, throughout.
Audio Research VTM120 monoblocks to Mark Levinson 23.5 amps. The 23.5s are wonderful amps that to this day will still beat most new ss amps out there. Still repairable (believe it or not) and are really nice.
But, I recently lost my mind and purchased two Audio Research REF 250 amps. I've been listening to these amps for about two years at my favorite store and without a doubt, they are the best amps I've ever heard. This is not a solid state vs tube debate. I've not heard for the money tube amps that beat the Mark Levinson 23.5. Still to this day, one of the best Mark levinson amps.
However, I just consider the REF 250 amps to be the best I've heard. Just great sound and design. And like I said, I lost my mind.
But, I am smiling.
For my speakers, I need lots of power and dynamic head room. Martin Logan Monolith III even with the Krell KBX balanced crossovers, this speaker needs power.
So, the AR REF 250 on the upper panels of the speakers and my second 23.5 on the bass drivers. Wow!!!!
Right now I am using a pair of Quicksilver Mid Mono amps and they are great, however I do regret selling my McCormack DNA 125.....that was a great solid state amp....I've owned a number of amps both tube and solid state and that 125 was one of my favorites. One of the best values in used amps out there.
The Quicksilvers have been rock solid reliable and sound excellent but you should always have a solid state amp as a back up....honestly the McCormack was too nice to let sit in a closet and I know it went to a good home where someone else is enjoying it as much as I did....I have a B&K 2140 in case I need it as a back up...
Oddiofyl, you and a couple of others here have mentioned how much you like McCormack amps so I gotta add that, if you liked the stock amps, you really should hear the upgraded versions by Steve McCormack at SMc Audio. In the past five years, I have owned the latest model Clayton M300 Class A monos, Lamm M1.1 hybrid monos, Ncore NC1200 Class D monos, Cary's 500.1 monos, Herron's M1 monos and others but none of those sounded better than my McCormack DNA-2 LAE stereo amp that Steve upgraded to his Signature Edition.
IMO, tubed and SS amps are like apples and oranges, you can like either or both but they don't taste the same.
They aren't the same at all but each are good in their own right. Solid state is much more reliable and needs virtually zero maintenance. Tubes can be a pain but at the volume I listen to in my medium size room 40 watts is plenty. I like how my amps can take a number of different type output tubes, all of which are often available locally . In my modest system those amps blow away anyone who has heard them whether they are into audio or not. I like solid state too but I haven't had one that sounds better than any tube amp I've had. These Quicksilvers are a little over two years old and have been rock solid.....
This is a pretty old amp, and of limited suitability for a lot of loudspeakers, but the little Bedini 25/25 was a favorite for use with the original Quad speakers for those who didn't want tubes. There was also a 10/10, both it and the 25/25 running in Pure Class A operation, if you care about that. The model numbers refer to the RMS watts/ch.
I have to remind myself that 'tube like' is a truncated expression that is missing the words 'but NOT tubes'.
You can't have your cake and eat it, it's either tube or it isn't tube...lol.
I just sold my Ampzilla 2000 monoblocks and Ambrosia preamp combo and regretted it the moment the deal was finalized.
That pairing gave me the most musical pleasure outside of listening to a good tube setup.
It's going to take a special amp to replace that pairing, probably a tubed integrated or perhaps a hybrid.
Another consideration for 'tube-like' that I could live with in the long haul is the CJ200 control amplifier which I owned for a while, or maybe something from Odyssey.
Whatever internal mind games we play to trick ourselves into believing that some piece of solid state gear can do what a tube amp does, is basically folly.
Tube-like but not tubes. Analog-like but not analog.
I still think although clearly SS amps can sound fabulous…tubey or not…tubes allow an easy path to amp tone manipulation that can simply be more fun than otherwise…otherwise being the fact that most tone freaks are unlikely to try dropping various tone bending replacement parts in a SS amp. It might be true that Western Electric vintage cable helps SS amps, but you can also simply put tubes around your SS amp (get 'em to glow somehow if you can…LEDs maybe?) and you might "feel" more tubey. A tube hat also can help. Earrings? One more thing about tubes…as a nearly 5 decade pro guitar player, I've tried various SS amps and although I use a Class D amp for bass (gigantic power in a little head…and everybody needs a little head), I've never been able to cop the vibe of a great tube amp with any modern "modeling" or whatever SS amp…I currently prefer a 15 watt push pull 6V6 and a class A single ended EL84 17 watter. Grease with glimmer...or something.
I searched for several months for a new set of speakers and found that the McIntosh C50 pre amp and MC452 power amp combination was one that seemed to make even the most "unforgiving" speakers sound great!
I was fortunate to find on Audiogon that pair, about 4-5 months old at the time, for a reasonable price.
I recently received my new Focal Sopra No2 speakers, with that beryllium tweeter, the McIntosh electronics sound smooth, like tubes. I'm very happy with this setup.
Spectral 30ss series 2. I Still like many tube preamps but not as my main system. once I went to the all Spectral system I couldn't go back. I tried a couple times but preferred the Spectral over my ARC Ref 5SE, TRL Dude, Cat SL-1 ultimate, Shindo, CJ ART, and many others. The Spectral is so clean with the best Midrange I've ever heard. Instruments have more weight and realism.. Voices are captivating.. This preamp gave everything I liked about tubes without the drawbacks.. The downside is that the initial investment is significant.. Spectral is the one for me.
As time goes on, top of the line electronics are abandoning their colored sound in favor of neutrality. Today's best electronics are meeting in the middle ground where perfection lies. I too have Ayre electronics and you really can't tell from which camp it was born.
The opinions here are great, but the prices are all over the map.
I have a Parasound A21 which sounds great and is what I can afford. I heard a Musical Fidelity M6 500I integrated amp a few years back and it sounded glorious for around $5K. I might want to get a get a pair of Pass XS 300 amps and XP 10 preamp, but I would have to sell my house, cars and wife.
I am a tube amp guy but a few months back I found a pair of Marantz MA932 monoblocks and sent them to Jena Labs for mods. Wow, these amps really sound great. Very close to tube sound
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