Ok.. I think I understand that no fuse is better than a cheap fuse. And a good fuse is better than a cheap fuse. But is no fuse better than the best fuse?
One person on Audiogon said that he achieved better sound by using a Blue fuse over no fuse. I guess my question is... Do these new, high dollar fuses just allow the current to flow better with solid protection or do they actually due to quantum physics or something, actually improve upon the signal by eliminating errant bad electrons and thereby actually improving the music over no fuse at all?
One person on Audiogon said that he achieved better sound by using a Blue fuse over no fuse.
>>>>>>That doesn’t sound right. Are you sure that’s what he said? He would have to use something in there, maybe a copper plug, but something. In my case I have no need for fuses of any kind since I’m using a low powered lithium battery powered portable player. Now, am I the only one who’s got experience with fancy fuses and no fuses at all? Probably. 🤡
No one will be able to categorically answer your questions because no one has ever been able to actually observe the ways electrons function. There are theories/theorums, however. None of which would discount the possibility, that any or all of the phenomena that we observe/hear, in whatever fuse/cable/etc changes we might make, aren’t real. Best theory, of late(20th/21st Centuries), holds that electrons exist as a kind of cloudy/indistinct wave, with possibilities of location, anywhere in that wave and don’t appear as a particle, until measured/detected/observed(much simplified). As Bohr(a fellow Physicist, with whom Einstein had conversations/issues, regarding entanglement/nonlocality/etc) once said, "Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood it." btw: Bohr’s been proven correct. https://www.khanacademy.org/science/physics/quantum-physics/quantum-numbers-and-orbitals/a/the-quantum-mechanical-model-of-the-atom and: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ypw5pw/how-could-quantum-physics-get-weirder-shattered-wavefunctions
To Fuse or Not to Fuse... That is the question!...Might be better titled to use a stock fuse or upgrade?. No fuse means no sound. Don’t stick in a 22 round either.
All I can say is that I noticed a difference. And (drum roll please) so did my wife who could generally care less.
I read all the literature before getting a Synergistic blue. Now there’s Orange! O R A N G E...cryogenically frozen by Tapist Monks.
Did I drink the kookaid? Maybe. Synergistic strives to keep it clean so there’s that too. They give you a thirty day money back guarantee.
Ok, what I meant by No Fuse, was bypassing the fuse with copper or silver wire. Is the Blue or now the Orange fuse doing something other than just making a great connection? Is it actually enhancing the sound somehow making the sound even better than a direct connection?
I also need 7 fuses in each of my amps, two in my preamp and at least one in my CD player. This totals 17 fuses. $2700.00 This is more than my original system cost back in the day.
I am frantically searching a previous post in hopes to find what I think I read, that someone bypassed the fuses and then tried a Blue fuse. He found that he liked the sound of the Blue fuse over bypassing. So, hence the question.... What did the fuse do other than be a great fuse?
I am frantically searching a previous post in hopes to find what I think I read, that someone bypassed the fuses and then tried a Blue fuse. He found that he liked the sound of the Blue fuse over bypassing. So, hence the question.... What did the fuse do other than be a great fuse?
I would speculate that the fuse simply resulted in sonic changes that happened to be subjectively preferable in the particular system to the particular listener. While more likely than not being less true to the source material than the bypass he tried.
If only one person said it you can dismiss him as an outlier. A copper plug will have a lot less electrical resistance than a teeny tiny fuse wire. Of course, it’s possibly that a copper plug in the wrong direction could sound worse than a fancy fuse in the right direction. 🤡
Nobody, including snarky old Kaitty, has ever addressed the simple fact that the wires and circuit board traces in any component are NOT installed with any regard to their directionality, thus obviating any sonic advantages provided by a half inch tiny diameter fuse wire's alleged directional benefits. Some claim to hear these inexplicable direction differences as readily as witnessing deities displayed in their breakfast toast, but a $2 Littelfuse does the same job as any boutique Magic fuse albeit without expectation bias encouraged by shameless hyperbole.
NOT AGAIN!!! please mods shift this toxic subject to the MISC Audio forum where it belongs and take GK with it, before he start saying he can hear the inserted direction of mains fuses
Lots of comments, but no answers! Does Hot wiring/bypassing/direct-connecting/ or using a copper or silver wire Instead of a fuse, make the sound better?
I may be in the near future buying copper tubing and installing it in place of a fuse, just to hear the differences. And, just for fun I might just flip a few to hear if there are any sound differences.... with proper burn-in of course!
Years ago Shunyata offered a solid copper slug to use in place of a fuse. I wonder how that compares? BTW, I have all the SR blue fuses, before that blacks, before that reds, before that others.
@captaindidactic- Read almarg’s response. "Better" will always be in the eyes/ears of the beholder/listener. Subjectivity/individual taste reigns! You won’t know what you’ll like, "better", until you try it for yourself. But, DO experiment(and have fun)!
Lots of comments, but no answers! Does Hot wiring/bypassing/direct-connecting/ or using a copper or silver wire Instead of a fuse, make the sound better?
Two answers.
One: depends. Depends on the wire. Depends on the fuse. Having compared, I can say for sure you will have a very hard time finding a wire or slug or anything else to sound as good as a Blue Quantum Fuse. Let alone Orange, which is a lot better.
Second answer: Depends. Depends, mostly, on your ears.
Some like the above georgehifi, apparently have really poor hearing. Or maybe never even tried? Because its pretty damn obvious one way sounds better than the other. To me, anyway. I am not in any way getting into an argument with anyone about how awful their listening "skills" are. If they say they can't hear, I take them at their word.
A fuse is a protective device. Bypassing opens you to damaging your equipment-perhaps completely. I would only use a fuse that has UL certification, regardless of how positively it changes the sound characteristics.
How would a manufacturer reply if you said: 'I bypassed the fuse and fried my equipment' Or, ' I used the new Purple fuse, but it didn't protect my equipment' Would you expect them to repair the damage? Bob
Hey George, so far there hasn't been much toxicity. It will be over soon enough. I am asking an honest question. For the amount of $$$ it would take to install Blue or Orange Fuses, I could replace both of my old amps. I have been running them trouble free for 30 years and am not really overly concerned if I fry one.
Even though it would only be my set of ears against the world, I just may try using solid copper wire and then trying out the Blue's.
Fortunately, the smoke detector is only a few feet away!
Nobody should be suggesting anyone bypass the fuse. Even if it sounded better, which it almost certainly does. If you wanna bump in sound cheap get an inexpensive audiophile fuse, they abound. Or, if you’re really cheap try reversing your current piece of crap fuse. You might be surprised. Especially if you have a lot of them. Don’t pay any mind to George, he’s our friendly Toxic Avenger. 🤡
captaindidactic Oh, the irony. If you get the meaning. Of didactic, I mean.
Forget the wire. When I said you will have a hard time I was being generous. You will in no way ever find a wire that will sound even anywhere near as good as a Blue Quantum Fuse. Let alone Orange. As whacky unlikely as it seems, they are only expensive compared to the ten cent fuse. For the improvement in sound you get compared to other components they are a bargain.
Maybe- "maybe" - you will find a wire that sounds better than your stock crappy factory fuse. Problem then, what's the value? Me personally, could hardly care less. But then I understand enough about components and electricity to know fuses don't work the way the fraidy cats imagine. Rather than explain, a lot easier to just say any time you see the writer using "UL" as justification you can safely disregard whatever comes after. They are worse than clueless.
And the $2700? This is what we call a "straw man" ie fake argument, ie nonsense. No one requires you buy one for everything all at once. Of course if you do, you will be amazed. It will be like putting new high end power cords on everything. Or if not no worries, money back guarantee.
But you don't have to do 16 all at once. I would start with just two. Orange. I would look at all my component fuse requirements, pick the highest value, double it, and order that. Then when they come I would try them in every position. Two in the preamp. One in each amp. Move the one in each amp to each location. Almost at this point want to think you're trolling, that no one could possibly be bone dense enough to build an amp with SEVEN fuses, but then again there's a lot of nutty design theories and even more gullible audiophiles out there seem to think the more Rube Goldberg the better. Whatever. Beside the point: Try em and see.
Until you do you will never know just how amazing they are.
Like what was said, a standard, ceramic bodied fuse with filler and decent end caps will stand heads and shoulders above any glass bodied, throw away fuse. They're know as high rupturing fuses and have been around since time immemorial (not really, but long enough).
I've tried four different brands and the aftermarket ones were demonstrably better than the bog standard fuses in my Marantz Reference integrated and SACD player.
They all had their own flavor, their own pluses and minuses, but no two fuses sounded alike.
The kicker is, the standard, ceramic bodied, high rupturing fuse that came with my Kinki Studio EX-M1 integrated bested all the aftermarket fuses I had on hand, and that one cost under $2.00.
That could be a testament to the design of the Kinki product or some perfect storm of variables but it just goes to show that you won't know until you try.
Millercarbon, One can only be didactic when one knows what they are talking about!
Yes, 7 in each amp. One ceramic and the rest cheapies. I just had all of them replaced with ceramic. NAD 2600's if you care. I also had the old 16 gauge power cords replaced with receptacles so I can get real power cords. Thinking Audioquest Monsoons.
Also doing the Schroeder Method, with combo AQ earths and waters from the Cambridge 851c into the NAD1700. AQ Oak speaker wires, Bi-wire, Bi-amp to Acoustic Research AR 910's completes the picture. Each addition sweetens the sound. So, no trolling here.
Power cords, maybe a AQ 1200 soon to come.
My highest value fuses are 10 amp. Are you saying I should order 20 amp??
I have used solid silver wire in my fuse holders. Then used the red and black fuses. The red and black to me were noticeably better that the audio magic solid silver wire. I am very glad I got the fuses. I will not get the orange but get other items first. If you are going to get some fuses and need to watch the budget I would put them in you power amp and source component first.
Thanks Marqmike! I knew there was someone who tried silver wire. I thought you meant that you had bypassed the fuse but I think what you just said is that you used fuses with a silver wire.
You are welcome captaindidactic. What I did was use just silver wire in my fuse holder, not in my fuses. When you buy a fuse you push it into it's holder. I did not use a fuse in it's holder when I used a sold silver wire, from one end of the fuse holder to the other end. After I took out the silver wire I put in a synergistic red or black fuse, depending on the component. I liked that noticeably better. Maybe that is easier to understand. And by the way, I find a lot of benefit when using judicious tweeks. have fun!
No fuse is always better one less bottle neck ,but doing so you take away fault protection from possibly saving a circuit. just buy a premium fuse slightly bigger ,for a stock fuse can vary up to 15%.
OK, I am totally confused. You guys saying you use these fuses in AC circuits?
From their web site: A: Yes, fuses are directional. Electricity should flow from the left to the right when you view the fuse. If you do not know the direction of flow you should listen to the fuse inserted in both directions. One direction will sound more detailed. This is the correct way.
I thought AC changed directions 60 times a second?
WOW. This subject has been tossed around these forums and, every once in a while, it resurfaces. So many opinions about fuses, wire, and everything else. My neighbor builds a deck exactly like mine. But, he stains it differently. Same deck. He likes his and I like mine. Nobody can convince you that what he does is better than what you have done as long as you've convinced yourself you have done better. So many "scientists" on these forums. Take note of the response just before mine! If I pleaded with my wife to agree to the expense of an audio upgrade, whether beneficial or not, she would agree that it was a good choice to make me happy with my decision. There's no end to this discussion.
I just want to weigh in. Clearly, everything - totally everything -- degrades sound It starts at X and goes downhill Maybe a little, maybe a lot. Fact. Now, i avoided fuses for ages. They were a needless distortion. And by definition a poor wire (just look at most of them, i have no idea about blue fuses). but here's what i have learned over the past several years, when i NEEDED fuses,a a designer who put dicey prototype equipment in very expensive and revealing system. They are a pretty modest distortion. Hate to say it, but ditto the wires that i run from my in-series fuse box ( that can portably protect anything). Is no fuse better? Probably. definitely in theory. But does it matter nearly as much as 100 things I can do to improve sound from cleaning contacts to tightening connections to providing cleaner AC power? Not eve close. So worry about the big stuff, and dont fret the small stuff. And fuses just might save you from doing $1000s of damage. really - its vastly smaller than you may think. I will consider ceramic fuses (good suggestions whoever made it) which are known to be better in most ways. But then, i cant get 5 more at the home depot.... Juts for the record, if i cannot repeatably hear it and have another listener corroborate it, i dismiss any result. G
Well, just for the record, I have replaced all of my fuses to ceramic. Out of the 7 in each of my amps only one in each amp was originally ceramic. The manufacturer, NAD chose as the first fuse inline to be ceramic. All the rest were the even cheaper fuses. One has to ask themselves Why would NAD do this? My conclusion is that upgrading this one fuse made a significant difference in the sound, at a very low cost. Why wouldn't a manufacturer upgrade every single component to make it sound as good as it possibly could? It had to meet a price point.
I have just started playing my system with 16 new ceramic fuses and so far it sounded better before. I will play it non stop for the next few days. I am currently playing The CD recommended by the book Get Better Sound. I think the CD is called Effacious. Spelled incorrectly I'm sure. I will post back once it all has a chance to burn in.
Who knows? Maybe George is right! But at least I am trying to find out for myself.
I switched out the standard cheap fuse and steel plate jumpers from my Magnepan 1.7i speakers for the Mike Powell silver jumpers and the silver tubes in lieu of fuses and have heard obvious improvements in SQ from lows to highs. I did careful before and after comparisons and took notes using the same playlists in an effort to fight conformation or expectation bias. So I think in at least some instances switching out fuses can make a change in SQ.
captaindidactic “I have just started playing my system with 16 new ceramic fuses and so far it sounded better before.”
>>>>>Hey, Capt, since all fuses are directional and all fuses require breaking in it will be somewhat of a challenge to get all 16 fuses in the correct direction. Better put on your Mr. Spock ears. 🤡
itsjustme Not eve(n) close. So worry about the big stuff, and dont fret the small stuff. And fuses just might save you from doing $1000s of damage. really - its vastly smaller than you may think.
>>>>>I tend to disagree. It’s vastly bigger than you may think. Especially if one has many fuses.
Maybe we should have a thread, How Small Can Something and Still Make a Big Difference?
The Devil is in the details. - Old audiophile axiom 😈
ibmjunkman OK, I am totally confused. You guys saying you use these fuses in AC circuits?
From their web site: A: Yes, fuses are directional. Electricity should flow from the left to the right when you view the fuse. If you do not know the direction of flow you should listen to the fuse inserted in both directions. One direction will sound more detailed. This is the correct way.
I thought AC changed directions 60 times a second?
>>>>>Thanks for bringing that up. Actually most audio fuses happen to be in AC circuits. It’s true current changes direction on the wire according to where the fuse is located. If the fuse is located where power comes into the CD player, preamp or amp or whatever it changes 60 times per second. But if the fuse is located in the speaker the current changes according to frequencies of the audio waveform. Thus the current at the fuse in the speaker changes 20 to 20,000 times per second - or more or less. If the fuse is in a DC circuit obviously current is unidirectional.
You can ignore the current traveling in the direction away from the speakers, I.e., toward the wall, since that direction of current flow is not (rpt not) audible. The only direction that’s audible for any wire is the one toward the speakers. It is the speakers that ultimately produce the sound you hear. So, it’s the “quality” of the current traveling toward the speakers that is the issue. That’s why fuses sound better in one direction, worse in the other direction in AC circuits and DC circuits. As Old Blue Eyes sez, that’s life.
Just for the record, 60 Hz AC changes polarity and consequently direction 120 times per second. During each 60 Hz cycle the waveform goes from negative to positive and also from positive to negative.
However energy is conveyed in only one direction, from source to load, putting aside reflection effects that occur mainly at RF frequencies.
"as readily as witnessing deities displayed in their breakfast toast".
you made my morning. sadly, being gluten sensitive, my chances of discovery are lessened.
Let's remember to clean the fuses. Contact cleaner (what brand?), Spit Shine? What to eat or how long to fast prior to spit shine? Dry with what cloth? Circular wipe? Direction, relative to the equator!
almarg Just for the record, 60 Hz AC changes polarity and consequently direction 120 times per second. During each 60 Hz cycle the waveform goes from negative to positive and also from positive to negative.
However energy is conveyed in only one direction, from source to load, putting aside reflection effects that occur mainly at RF frequencies.
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