To Fuse or Not to Fuse... That is the question!

Synchatrom? Quantum? You’re beautiful! 🤡

Ok.. I think I understand that no fuse is better than a cheap fuse. And a good fuse is better than a cheap fuse. But is no fuse better than the best fuse?

One person on Audiogon said that he achieved better sound by using a Blue fuse over no fuse. I guess my question is... Do these new, high dollar fuses just allow the current to flow better with solid protection or do they actually due to quantum physics or something, actually improve upon the signal by eliminating errant bad electrons and thereby actually improving the music over no fuse at all?

I gots to know!

band gaps and electrons are a given state no mater what their emprisoned matter-copper,lead,nicrome etc. this is told in the mobility of carriers/hple well known by ant semiconductor engineer. its not a guess what will cause an electron to jump the band gap. you know mosfets,igbts etc work on that principal. just being near a pure neturon doped semiconductor will turn on the "jump" with its induced capacirave charge just like a touch screen reacts to the finger charge being near it " one of my patents" of the 80s
so the effeft of solid mechanical fuses and such is so riducakky insuffiginant its pathetlic.
you have more change from the daily air pressure atmospheric transmittance of the sound wave to your ear than a space man in a pressurized capusul.
and ps my dad did the apollo programs human interaction with sensors with Grumman and rayethon.

@uberwaltz
He can only afford the crack heads! 😂

sorry geo is the animal guy

my 95 yr old mamma is still here laffing at u non science guys replys

Is hemi code for half-man?

Thought it would be difficult for this thread to sink any deeper than it already had but just proves I know Jack!
Now wallowing in the primordial ooze!

How did sex trade and bestiality make it into an audio forum?
There goes the neighborhood.

If you disturb the flock they do get sheepish.

lol, that's why I just buy the equipment which sounds right to my ears, and don't need (or want) to think (or worry) about all of the above. Nevertheless, this thread has a certain entertainment value... (well, at least to me...)

Fuses.... it works like this:

I hear chatter about fuses. I check my equipment, and find out I need eight fuses. Too much money. More than for my entire vintage system. So I get pissed, upset. Then I go online in revenge to all audiophile groups I can find denouncing fuses as snake oil

Tweaking at the tweaker's ball.................

All I feel is sympathy.

Blue fuses soak up all the errant Blu Ray radiation.  This collection of rays ionizes the discrete electrons (Think about that!) forming analog signals, which allows the fuse to turn the alternating current into a collection of waves rather than electrons.  After receiving the Nobel prize for his work on the photoelectric effect, Einstein posted  a YouTube video about it.   

Oh, brother! They’re coming out of the woodwork!

Really Geoff!! he could be your twin.🤢  Can’t see the forest for the trees???

George, George of the jungle, watch out for that tree! Go back and finish school, Georgie!

I smoke some good Grapefruit Kush and it sounds amazing even when I take the fuse out!

Have you tried smoking banana peels? You will see Diana Krall in the room.

Just noticed, my moniker was mentioned. Referring back to my first post: while subatomic particles(pick one) have been detected, their paths traced, their mass determined and even some created, "no one has ever been able to actually observe(as in seen, viewed or watched) the ways electrons function." That’s WHY the study of such is called, ’Particle/Quantum/Atomic/etc Theory’. Any scientist should recognize the foolishness, of making(attempted) categorical statements based on theories(ie: Band Gap Theory/QED/Electrical/etc).   I've never met a scientist, that I've found dissuading others from experimenting/learning for themselves.

Tried smoking banana peels, in the 60's(per Donovan's recommendation).   Doesn't work.   Had to experiment, though!

That’s actually not really true. We know exactly how free electrons move in a conductor and what their function is. It’s not really quantum mechanical. It’s plain old everyday physics. Free electrons are charge carriers and they move back and forth along with the current 🔛 but at a snail’s pace. 🐌 We even know exactly their velocity. It’s about a meter an hour. It’s not rocket science. 🚀 If you want to talk about something quantum mechanical you need look 👀 no further than the CD laser. It all comes back to the single and double slit experiments.

Some should stick with giving nutrition advice.

Good comeback! 🙄

I have been eating more fish(thanks)!

Tried smoking banana peels, in the 60's(per Donovan's recommendation).

Electrical Banana was a vibrator!!!

I wouldn’t know. 

• Tried smoking banana peels, in the 60's(per Donovan's recommendation).  Doesn't work.  Had to experiment, though!

Humph! You most likely didn't realize that bananas are directional. Had you taken the time to reverse the direction, you would have seen God.

Frank

I used to buy fancy Synergistics Red and Black fuses..
My new gear is a Pair of PS Audio Stellar M700’s with a Schiit Freya Preamp..
I’m happy to say that both companies make the Fuses inaccessible to the consumer..
Thank goodness..

My amp manufacturer heard his/my amps with the SR Blue fuses (a huge skeptic about fuses until comparing bussman to SR Blues) and said he would do one better. He replaced his amp fuses with circuit breakers (5 amp). However, they were NOS 40 years old and untested so he is gambling but knows how to repair his equipment (I don’t). His amps sounded terrific. At least as good as my Blue fused amps. I will now try the SR Orange fuses particularly because they reportedly sound better than broken in SR Blues right out of the box.
My pre-amp and phono pre do not use fuses at all.  Nothing's blown in over 15 years and they use sub-miniature, 100,000 hour rated tubes. Yeah!

Wyred4Sound's STI-v2 integrated employs a circuit breaker on the back panel in lieu of a fuse. Hopefully, more manufacturers will catch on.

All the best,
Nonoise

How long do we have to wait before there are audiophile circuit breakers? 

@ millercarbon

" no one could possibly be bone dense enough to build an amp with SEVEN fuses "

Adcom did.  The GFA7707 uses one on each channel board.

Just saying...

@geoffkait no time at all

here you go - a selection of breakers from Kemp

https://www.kempelektroniksshop.nl/accessories/audio-grade-fuses.html

i has SR give my breaker their Tesla treatment which is something they offer if you send it to them

And some more

http://www.gigawatt.eu/produkt/g-c16a-power-grid-overcurrent-protection-switch/

https://audio-hifi-shop.de/AHP-Klangmodul-4-G-fuer-Sicherung-14x51mm

Clearly a thing in Europe. I’ll install one of these when I get my system up and running here in the UK 

The following is so laughably incorrect, I don't know whether the poster was honestly communicating what they believe or if they were trolling. 

This is wrong. It is not open to debate (unless you have no clue how electricity works). Of course energy is transferred in both directions. That is why power supply ripple is NOT at 60Hz, it is at 120Hz (or 100Hz). Again, not remotely open to debate and easily confirmed. If there is 60Hz noise that is being injected directly into the signal, not from power supply ripple. 

Signed,  "Someone who actually does this for a living."


"You can ignore the current traveling in the direction away from the speakers, I.e., toward the wall, since that direction of current flow is not (rpt not) audible. The only direction that’s audible for any wire is the one toward the speakers. It is the speakers that ultimately produce the sound you hear. So, it’s the “quality” of the current traveling toward the speakers that is the issue. That’s why fuses sound better in one direction, worse in the other direction in AC circuits and DC circuits. As Old Blue Eyes sez, that’s life. "

This is really only partially true and from a certifications standpoint not usually true. The main purpose of an AC mains fuse is to protect the AC wire leading to the equipment so that it does not heat up and cause a fire. In theory any overheating inside an piece of equipment will be suitably contained by the enclosure. Where the case is metal and grounded, it can also provide protection from a live wire contacting the grounded case, which is neutral connected at the panel and will hence blow.


Almarg 9-26-2019
I just want to state a point of information: Posts that have been made by at least three different members appear to imply that the purpose of an AC mains fuse in a component is to provide protection against surges in the incoming AC. While it is possible that an AC mains fuse might do that under some circumstances, that is not its intended purpose. Its intended purpose is to blow if a fault within the component causes it to draw excessive AC current. Thereby preventing **additional** damage to the component that may otherwise occur, as well as preventing the possibility of the component overheating or even bursting into flames as a result of the excessive current being drawn. 

The other reason for a fuse is if the equipment has MOV based surge protection which will typically fail short, but technically that is covered by the my first case ... to protect the wire connected to the equipment.

roberttcan"The following is so laughably incorrect, I don't know whether the poster was honestly communicating what they believe or if they were trolling. This is wrong. It is not open to debate (unless you have no clue how electricity works). Of course energy is transferred in both directions."

No has has claimed, asserted, or argued otherwise perhaps you are confused, disoriented, or lack proper reading comprehension.

Excuse me?  That is EXACTLY what someone claimed. This is a direct quote from this thread. geoffkait specifically. Don't shoot me, I am just the messenger, not the comedian. It seems it is you that lacks reading comprehension or just wanted to look like the big man on the block, but were too lazy to do due diligence or perhaps you just don't understand the topic at hand similar to how goeffkait does not understand it.

The FUSE, no matter the direction of the current flow, impedes (or doesn't impede) the flow of electrons which impacts the flow of every electron at a macro level in the circuit. It doesn't matter whether the electrons are flowing into the left or right side of the fuse. The effect is the same with an AC signal ... it is a 2 port device.

If you truly believe the fuses are directional, then you should open up your electronics and start playing around with the direction of every resistor and non polarized capacitor too .... let me know how that goes.

Bye



geoffkait17,586 posts10-13-2019 7:51amibmjunkman
OK, I am totally confused. You guys saying you use these fuses in AC circuits?

From their web site:
A: Yes, fuses are directional. Electricity should flow from the left to the right when you view the fuse. If you do not know the direction of flow you should listen to the fuse inserted in both directions. One direction will sound more detailed. This is the correct way.

I thought AC changed directions 60 times a second? 

>>>>>Thanks for bringing that up. Actually most audio fuses happen to be in AC circuits. It’s true current changes direction on the wire according to where the fuse is located. If the fuse is located where power comes into the CD player, preamp or amp or whatever it changes 60 times per second. But if the fuse is located in the speaker the current changes according to frequencies of the audio waveform. Thus the current at the fuse in the speaker changes 20 to 20,000 times per second - or more or less. If the fuse is in a DC circuit obviously current is unidirectional.

You can ignore the current traveling in the direction away from the speakers, I.e., toward the wall, since that direction of current flow is not (rpt not) audible. The only direction that’s audible for any wire is the one toward the speakers. It is the speakers that ultimately produce the sound you hear. So, it’s the “quality” of the current traveling toward the speakers that is the issue. That’s why fuses sound better in one direction, worse in the other direction in AC circuits and DC circuits. As Old Blue Eyes sez, that’s life. 

No fuse sounds better until a power surge fries your gear

from Littlefuse 3AG Slo-Blo 313/315 Series

% of Amp Rating          Amp Rating         Opening Time
----------------------          --------------------         -------------------
100%                           10mA – 30A              4 hours, Minimum
135%                           10mA – 30A              1 hour, Maximum
200%                           10mA – 15A              5 sec. Min., 30 sec. Max
                                     20A – 30A                5 sec. Min., 60 sec. Max

The average time / current curves for a 5A Slo-Blow requires ≈20A to open in 1 second, typ. A 5A fuse would typically be fit for a 2.5A load. To get 20A into the unit would require a surge of about 1000V. By the time the fuse blows, it's all over but the crying.

There is an old saw "Speaker/Transistor protected fuses" that has more than a little truth to it.

Energy does not travel to and fro in an AC circuit. Energy is a scalar quantity. It has no direction. It doesn’t make sense, anyway, since IF energy changed direction along with the current the net energy would be zero. 

Note to Mr. Eels - the name is Littelfuse, not Littlefuse. 

You remind me of those Charlie Brown cartoons ... "Wa wa wa wa, wa wa wa wa".  Yes, electrons do move "to and fro" and they impart/transfer energy ... in both directions. The fuse is a simple element in a circuit, a circuit that works both directions ... being a simple 2 port element, it will work the same in both directions. The fuse "impedes" electron flow in the circuit whether the electrons enter from the left or the right. 

You repeating the same stuff over and over again shows you don't understand, not that you do, i.e. "energy is scaler quantity" ... and yes, energy is transferred in BOTH DIRECTIONs. Whether it is scaler or not really matters not. Energy is transferred in both directions. Period.

You do know that a lightbulb "receives" energy in both directions of the current flow right? Do you know the frequency of flicker of a light bulb .. it's not 60Hz, it is 120Hz. (or 100Hz)

DO YOU know why power supplies in audio equipment have ripple at 120/100Hz? ... that is because energy is transferred in each direction.



geoffkait17,587 posts10-21-2019 2:50pmEnergy does not travel to and fro in an AC circuit. Energy is a scalar quantity. It has no direction. It doesn’t make sense, anyway, since IF energy changed direction along with the current the net energy would be zero.

Note to Mr. Eels - the name is Littelfuse, not Littlefuse.

roberttcan"Excuse me?  That is EXACTLY what someone claimed. This is a direct quote from this thread."


Youhave not provided the quote to which you so strongly object, protest, and dispute.

"It seems it is you that lacks reading comprehension or just wanted to look like the big man on the block, but were too lazy to do due diligence or perhaps you just don't understand the topic at hand"

Insults! Insults! Insults! Is that the New American Way to develop, pursue, and prosecute an argument, reason, or belief it is beginnin g to look that way! "you should open up your electronics and start playing around with the direction of every resistor and non polarized capacitor too .... let me know how that goes."

You are free to design, specify, and perform you're own tests, studies, and analysis and let us know how that goes but you can not insist, demand, and require others to perform you're testing for you on your behalf at you're insistence, demand, and order.

 
roberttcan "If you are going to keep this up, please stop. "

It is not for you to limit, restrict, or discourage posters and contributors to this forum from sharing, expressing, or explaining they’re thoughts, observations, or opinions and regardless of you're cherished, revered, and holy convictions you should not seek to silence those with who you disagree or who may have offended, insulted, or embarassed you by applying superior reasoning, knowledge or experience.