This is very timely...

I don't consider Brent Butterworth an authority on hi-fi. He's mid-fi to the bone.

If everything I’ve heard about them is true, Lyric Audio killed Lyric Audio. And not a moment too soon.........

Oz

I agree with @bdp24 , Brent Butterworth outlived his usefulness in the 90s heyday of home theater when it was in its infancy. And it’s no surprise that Soundstage poo poos high sens. speakers and low watt tube amps. Look at some of the overpriced speakers needing arc welders to drive them that they constantly review.

Nothing to see here.

@ozzy62: I don’t know if everything you’ve heard about Lyric is true, but I was shocked at how I was treated by them when I lived in NYC in 1982. I had been been a customer of a number of high end shops in California before moving East, and had a complete Thorens-SME-Supex / ARC / Magneplanar Tympani system. Having seen Lyric’s name mentioned numerous times in TAS, I wanted to see what they had to offer.

Rather than being welcomed into the store, I was stopped at the doorway and informed that if I wasn’t there to buy something specific, entry would not be forthcoming. No browsing. The "salesman" who informed me of that fact was dripping with smug arrogance. If I was less civilized man I woulda punched him in his disgusting face. Utter pretentiousness!

bdp24 ...

• "The "salesman" who informed me of that fact was dripping with smug arrogance."

This attitude filters down from the top. From what I experienced from various audio shows I've worked at and attended over the years, this was certainly true of Lyric Audio. Nuff said,

Frank

edgewound
Thank you for the link. Does Ken Pohlmann still write ?

Happy Listening!

Jay Jay from Twisted Sister has an article in the latest Stereophile about Lyric from the time he worked there.

If audio writers who praise these products asked mainstream speaker designers why they don’t make super-efficient speakers, they’d learn that with efficiency comes compromises—in frequency-response linearity, dispersion, distortion, and power handling. Few highly efficient speakers achieve a respectably flat frequency response and broad dispersion. And many of the primitive tube amps that are typically used to drive them have very high output impedance, which will interact with a speaker’s impedance to change the sound in ways the speaker’s designer didn’t anticipate and likely wouldn’t condone.

OK I started reading the article but the BS started to stink too much. Sure, there is plenty of snake oil in this and every other hobby too. But that doesn't mean that it's ALL snake oil. And just because someone doesn't understand HOW it works does not negate the fact that it may work.

 I see a lot of newbies talking up their 400 wpc PA amp as if its the absolute best for hifi because they have mammoth power. I have an older Crown MT 1200 which came from a studio that I would not consider using  to replace my 60wpc or 35wpc tube amp in my system. But it will fill up a good size parking lot in its proper application... Live sound. of course with those high efficiency speakers.

The writer talks about high efficiency speaker compromises as if they were the only ones to compromise. That is BS to the max. Everything in life is a compromise for mere mortals with a budget. Products without compromise are the very things that I suspect the writer also doesn't like. You know, those $ 200K speakers. I know I've seen the very people who criticize these ultra expensive components then expect perfection for $200. Its time to get real. You can't have it both ways

Quite right. Lyric killed Lyric. However, Mr Butterworth's opinion is quite valid. The lay instinct problem is ever present particularly in the press. Another problem is press bias due to financial pressures and personal bias. Have you ever noticed that many manufacturers will only let writers who are already fond of their equipment do review's? This says nothing of the scheisters that sell BS tweaks with marketing that is patently ridiculous. 
I find it refreshing that Butterworth mentions Room control and subwoofers two technologies that I am extremely fond of. They do make dramatic improvements in sound quality but it is so hard getting people to understand this, or want to understand this. 

lyric was its own enemy, they deserve what they got

good shops in good areas with wealth that respect customers still do fine, as tough as conditions have been

covid has certainly given the industry a revival of sorts, which is good for all of us who are enthusiasts - businesses by and for enthusiasts always struggle more compared to other business run just to make a buck or please the shareholders

this being said, media churn, media bias, all driven by structural fragmentation and its own self serving financial incentives, is a real problem, and is a major contributor of many of the big problems in our world today, reaching far beyond hi fi

From  ozzy62,
"And it’s no surprise that Soundstage poo poos high sens. speakers and low watt tube amps. Look at some of the overpriced speakers needing arc welders to drive them that they constantly review." 

• Nothing to see here

Agree 100%
Charles 

Nothing to see here

I can't look. Now THAT'S timely.

A couple of years ago, not more than four or five, I entered Lyric Audio as I have done with virtually every other similar store I have passed by in the world.

I did have to ring the bell. The man who opened asked if I needed help and I said I just wanted to see what they had and was surely not buying anything. He told me "Enjoy" or something to that effect. He left me alone to go around. I played music by myself. I went room by room, each one increasing in price of the components on display. After, I believe, four rooms, I thought I had seen it all and was leaving. That salesman told me that I had forgotten the last room with the best equipment they had and that I should check it. So I did. Some huge speakers, dCS stack and then some, etc. It sounded good, I admit.

Based on my experience that day, a place to recommend for no-pressure shopping.

They are because they are not telling the truth about new audio gear at all and how overpriced and low in value and sound quality that it is and has become.

@glubson, how were you dressed, like a Wall St. banker?
😁

Ouch.
You got a point there judge! I agree. There is plenty of craziness and dogma that goes around that is used to try and make the high end seem more special than perhaps it really is? Also a fair share of total nonsense. Things fit for a cult but nothing ever really big or earth shattering enough for many to ever really care.

FWIW I went to Lyric only once late in the day on a weekend (or was it Christmas Eve perhaps) several years back. My experience was similar to glupson. I was the only one there at the time but the guy let me look around in peace then offered a listen to the stuff in the big room in the back. Just one visit but nice enough. I was dressed casually but decent by upper east side standards most likely that day. Did a lot of walking around the city that day.

lowrider57,

Knowing myself, I probably wore shoes with visible holes, t-shirt, shorts. Maybe some non-descript jacket and jeans. I know others might have had different experiences, but mine was just fine. At the same time, I do not think they had too many people walking in all the time.

Now, it is probably better that I do not mention Sound by Singer.

"...are willing to take on the challenging but rewarding task of learning how these products really work. We need writers who’ve maybe dug into such authoritative books as Vance Dickason’s Loudspeaker Design Cookbook, Floyd Toole’s Sound Reproduction: The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms, Ken Pohlmann’s Principles of Digital Audio, and Bob Cordell’s Designing Audio Power Amplifiers..."

No we need entertaining writers with good ears and that can share their experience. 

It would seem that Goodwin's High End (near me) is doing fine...nice guys (recently repaired and tuned up my Linn table for relatively very little money). Is Goodwin's killing audio? Somehow I doubt it.

...from all the trash talk about Lyric, I'm surprised some driven soul didn't 'enhance' their sign into Livid Adiots...but I'm like that....*g*

No, never had that particular displeasure....but did and have had the same sort occur elsewhere.  Guess they only liked clientele that can dish back the dis' and then some...*shrug*

A few years ago I read in the "Letters" section of The Absolute Sound about a guy who was asked to leave an unnamed,  hi-end shop in NYC because he was listening to an iPod with little earphones  while browsing through the store. I wonder if that was Lyric Audio.

Thanks, @edgewound for the link. Trying to keep a spirit of decorum, Butterworth’s first paragraph seems to betray his entire article? He seems to be saying that only he and perhaps we’d conclude brick-and-mortar high end audio stores know anything. Yes, a lot of YouTube / podcast opinions & reviews may not be the best. Yet I have learned a lot from John Darko, Hans Beekhuyzen, Joshua Valour, Currawong, and the infamous Zeos, et. al. I enjoyed a YouTube Hans recently put together, " Audio myths & dogmas #2: comparing audio sources"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqBYB6kEKec

OP -- thanks for sharing. The piece raised a lot of issues.

@jjss49 

"media churn, media bias, all driven by structural fragmentation and its own self serving financial incentives, is a real problem, and is a major contributor of many of the big problems in our world today, reaching far beyond hi fi"

You super duper nailed it. Churn is the word. Where's Thoreau when you need him? He stuck in the 18th tab of a browser, maybe...

Never had a problem at Lyric; and this is going back to the 80s and 90s.  Wouldn’t say that they were warm and fuzzy, but I was always allowed to listen to what I wanted including the mighty IRS, Quad/Jadis and what would be my next speaker purchase, MGIIIA’s.  One of the few places where I came across a salesman who was a truly knowledgeable music lover.  Maybe I got lucky....maybe I approached them the right way (for them).

I have only ever had one interaction with Lyric Audio and that was just a few months ago. Being confined away from home due to recovery from open heart surgery, I needed a CD player to while away the time. I found an NAD - CD568 on Audiogon at an excellent price, new and in the box ! Much to my surprise, the seller was Lyric Audio !  Long story short --- the player was sent to my home address, not to my distant location. When I called to try to have them re-direct the delivery I was told to call a certain number and ask for "Lenny".  I thought I was being referred to the shipping clerk, but "Lenny" turned out to be Lenny Bellezza,  the owner of Lyric.  Despite the fact that my purchase was an absolute "steal", Lenny sent numerous EMails back and forth to try to correct the error of the mis-directed package.  All turned out well and I was impressed at how diligently Lenny tried to gain my satisfaction.  He commented at one point that he had quite a number of older clients that he accommodated with extra attention, of which my experience was proof.  Definitely the end of an era -------

It sounds like Lyric finally got “religion” only recently.
When I saw the name “Lyric” in the article I cringed at the thought of the place due to my experience with them many years ago.
‘Not dissimilar to others here, I was met with total disdain by the salesman, who, when I mentioned I was a musician, foolishly trying to impress him, he just raised his eyebrows, but still couldn’t wait til I left the store.

First off, Jay Jay French is a pompous you know what. 

First off, Jay Jay French is a pompous you know what. I find his writings to reek of self aggrandizement and narcissism.

Unfortunately, the audio industry has always had too many stores that were staffed by pretentious arrogant fools. Too bad because no customer deserves to be treated poorly. But I suppose with the demise of most brick and mortar audio stores the arrogance problem is solved.

I really enjoyed the article.  I hadn’t seen Butterworth in print lately, and it appears he has moved to headphone world, which just isn’t for me.
  I agree with most of what he says.  I have no opinion on the high sensitivity speaker issue.  I am however a big fan of Room Correction and Subwoofers, and their dismissal by most of the Hi End community is for me just one of the curious traits of this hobby. Other difficult to understand issues for me have been the (initial) abject praise for MQA and the use of exotic materials in speakers.
  He doesn’t touch on the main reason for decline of the Audio Industry, which is that people just don’t care.  In the seventies my contemporaries were greatly concerned with having a decent system, and most of us couldn’t afford bupkes.  My friends now have much more disposable income and now use Apple buds, cheap Bluetooth devices, or perhaps cheap AVRs.  Television speakers satisfy them, or if they upgrade it is a soundbar.  The lack of interest amongst the millennials and Gen Xers  is well documented .  In response the High End manufacturers chase the declining number of senior audiophiles or else listeners in the far east.  It isn’t a healthy trend

The high end market actually has more potential customers in the far east than they ever had in the west at any time. It's a status symbol in parts of Asia.

If audio writers who praise these products asked mainstream speaker designers why they don’t make super-efficient speakers, they’d learn that with efficiency comes compromises—in frequency-response linearity, dispersion, distortion, and power handling. Few highly efficient speakers achieve a respectably flat frequency response and broad dispersion. And many of the primitive tube amps that are typically used to drive them have very high output impedance, which will interact with a speaker’s impedance to change the sound in ways the speaker’s designer didn’t anticipate and likely wouldn’t condone.

This author doesn’t have idea what does he talk about. His technical knowledge is zero. High efficient speakers don’t have the thermal distortions. These distortions cause compression, significant frequency response changes on different loudness. High efficient speakers don’t need power more then a single watt.
SET amplifiers has the lowest distortion on low power (first watt). SET have the lowest distortions, no high order distortions and transistors thermal distortions.
Bottom line, a proper built highly efficient speakers with SET amplifier system sound most close to the real classical or jazz music performance.

Yeah, that is the dumbest thing I ever heard in audio. I've had people tell me the midrange is perfect and seamless- and this is with tubes.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6xMt6Wj9JE   Sure there are probably some highly efficient speakers out there that have problems. There are also some poorly built tube amps that give tubes a bad rep. But that in no way justifies any of this blanket condemnation that tries to say these things cannot sound good at all. If you want to take that approach then everything everywhere is crap so why bother at all? Just about as wrong a wrong can be. 

I want to add that extremely flat frequency response and extremely low distortions don't have correlation to the real listening. The religious belief in measurements shows the incompetence of the author.

More comedy writing.

"...hi-end shop in NYC because he was listening to an iPod with little earphones while browsing through the store. I wonder if that was Lyric Audio."

I doubt it. They even sold cheap things.