I have dedicated audio room 14.5x20.5x9 ft. Currently have Marantz Reference CD/Intergrated paired to Magnepan 1.7's with REL T-7 subs. For the vast majority of music I love this system. The only nit pick is that it is lacking/limited in covering say below 35 hz or so. For the first time actually buzzed the panel with an organ sacd. Bummer. Thought of upgrading subs to rythmicks but then I will need to high pass the 1.7's. Really don't want to deal with that approach.
Enter the Double Impacts. Many interesting things here. Would certainly have a different set of strengths here. Dynamics, claimed bottom octave coverage in one package, suspect a good match to current electronics.
I've read all the threads here so we do not need to rehash that. Just wondering if others out there have FIRST HAND experience with these or other Tekton speakers
HI David, Unfortunetly I had to delay shipping while I'm out of town and the amp won't arrive until late Tuesday. Aric says it sounds amazing and I'm looking forward to hearing it myself. I'll definitely be sharing my impressions later this week.
Hopefully our SE's will be shipping soon so I can put the final touch on my system.
Just loving my DI speakers so much. Listening to music, all kinds of music, and experiencing new levels of realism. I hear voice inflections, details, recording space nuances and lyrics with newfound levels of resolution and realism. What is most enjoyable to me is the fact that all this “new”information is served up in a natural and unforced manner.
I also must admit that at times I crank up the music much louder than I have in years to marvel at the bass and dynamic impact. I feel like a teenager at times cranking it up just for the sonic experience. Ha! The bass is remarkable really. The speaker’s ability to hold it all together when played very loudly is stunning. Just a fun and engaging speaker all at the same time.
They are also fully engaging at very low volume. My current rig does explosive dynamics and engaging, low level listening with equal proficiency.
I believe you are in for a real sonic "treat" with your customized SET 300b amplifier from Aric. We talked last week and after he told me what parts you guys put into it and what he was hearing doing testing/burn-in you wouldn't be disappointed!
Bill, I was listening last night until the late hours (gotta love having a dedicated room. My wife says that was the main reason we built this house 3 yrs ago!). In spite of my electrolytic caps, etc. I still had a big smile on my face. My enthusiasm for this speaker has not waned one bit. It does so much right and so little wrong it is tough to beat. I can only imagine how yours are sounding with all the upgrades. Really glad you are enjoying them so much. Thanks again for sharing your crossover upgrade. I do expect I will venture down that road after a long period of pondering the options (my norm). P.S. I chuckled when you admitted to cranking things up a bit. I can go one better (or worse)--I'll admit to hauling out some of my Telarc recordings not of music, but rather T. Rex invading my audio room. Holy crap. The DI's didn't flinch.
It is now about 3 weeks, 3 emails, 2 phone calls and I have not been able to make contact with Eric either via email or phone he is always too busy. The girl who answers the phone is polite but is unable to answer my questions. However, she would take my order...
Hi Ozzy, I can appreciate your mounting frustration with the communication issues you’ve been experiencing. I hope you hang in there . I’ve heard the DIs and am familiar with your Atma-sphere (M 60vmonocblocks). This would be a truly fine pairing in my opinion. Charles
Just wanted to restate and clarify my past experimenting with amplifiers driving the Double Impacts and Ulfberhts and add on a new amplifier which has become my new solid state reference in my system.
First, it all boils down to a combination of synergy and personal taste of what we want our systems to sound like. I have listened to three of the most highly regarded D amplifiers (Merrill/Mola-Mola/Devialent) and still am not impressed by what they have to offer. I find them to be great Hi-Fi that does a lot of things right, except make music. So, with respect to the many posters on this thread that love the sound of their DI's being driven with class D amplifiers, my amplifier list might not be your "cup of sonic tea".
All the amplifiers that I will list were driven with the LTA Micro-ZOTL preamplifier.
On the DI's, when I had them in for review, there is no doubt that my favorite amplifier was the Triode Lab SET 2A3 piece. It offered the most beautiful combination of tonality, 3D imaging, sweet top end, and excellent bass.
However, on the Ulfberht's, still don't really know why, the spatial aspects suffered when the Triode Lab amplifier was in the system. It was if the music was "stuck" on the front of the speaker. The DI's when driven by this amplifier completely disappeared in a giant sound-stage. The two best tube amplifiers driving the DI's very big brother are:
1) AricAudio's standard, with no upgrades, SET KT-88 amplifier is simply a superlative match with this speaker that does everything right across the sonic board.
2) Canary Audio's M-80 SET 300b mono-blocks are another beautiful match with the Ulf's, driving them on all parameters to a reference level.
The very big difference between these two amplifiers is the price. Aric's amplifier, retails for around $2,300.00 and the Canary Audio's pair, retails for $9,000.00. That's way I consider Aric's amplifier, very much like the DI's themselves, one of the great bargains in high-end audio. When you figure in build quality, performance vs cost ratio it's a terrific purchase.
Finally, I have had the great pleasure of auditioning for reviewing proposes, what I now consider the best solid state amplifier I have ever heard, driving the Ulfberht's the last two weeks. The Pass Labs XA-25 is an amazing piece! I would still swear that I'm listening to a great SET tube based amplifier based on how it renders timbres/tonality, the amount of air/space/3D-imaging it produces, and a sweet airy top end, but it's the quietest amplifier I have ever had in my system and is extremely fast and dynamic with great bass control. My reference solid state amplifiers for the last four years has been the wonderful Pass Labs XA-60.8 mono-blocks. However, for my tastes these great amps were out performed by the XA-25, which uses a very different design compared to the .8 series amplifiers. Extrapolating from the Ulf's to the DI's this could be an amplifier you might want to hear in your system. The brilliant Nelson Pass figured out how to use a type of transistor that had never before been used for audio proposes and the XA-25 delivers 50 Watts Class A into 4 ohms and it can drop 200 Watts Class A/B into 2 ohms. The amp only uses two transistors per channel. It retails for $4,900.00. My formal reviews on the Pass Labs XA-25 and the AricAudio SET KT-88 will be published on hometheatereview.com, hopefully before the end of the year.
@teajay - Pass Labs now has a designer named Jam Somasundram who designed the extremely well regarded HPA-1 and has been working on various "new" designs for Pass. I knew Jam when he lived in Charlotte, NC and worked for Cary Audio. He is a great guy and obviously very talented. Just a little FYI.
Cannot classify all Class D amps as sounding a certain way anymore than you can say all tube, class A or Class A/B amps sound the same. Listening to 4 Class D amps, or even 10, and then suggesting no Class D amp is your cup of tea is not logical or correct.
The Lyngdorf 2170 is not a Class D amp. It is much more than that. It is a system and not designed at all like the other pieces you mentioned. Again, great big system world out there with possibilities you have not experienced. I have heard many Class D amps and digital systems including one in your group of three and they do not, cannot possibly, represent the complete population of digital system offerings.
I am fine with with you saying those three amps don’t float your boat. That is as far as you can or should go. The Lyngdorf is as far from Hifi sounding as I can imagine. The synergy with the DI speaker is amazing and while not perfect, no system is, it certainly makes music with the DI speaker in a magical way. Yes, I know an audiophile who sold the very Pass Labs amp you love Plus a preamp and dac for the Lyngdorf. Most who have experienced this won’t post here as they don’t want to deal with the Class D/digital system discrimation and fall out that ensues.
I am sure there are other powered dac solutions with room correction that are also very special with the DI. I just need to experience them.
As a tube amp lover, tube system lover, I simply cannot let over generalizations about digital system solutuions go unchecked. Why? Because there are options out there, like the 2170, that actually please tube lovers more than many tube systems. We owe it to the community to not close the door on digital system possibilities with the DI speaker that are sublime.
Lyngdorf 2170 owners I have experienced an upgrade/modification that any good local tech can accomplish for you. The upgrade is not cheap, $350 in parts, but the result is stunning. I was so overwhelmed by it that I told the manufacturer. I would be happy to share with owners, but it will void your warranty.
It improves the resolution and all important “inner glow” of the piece.
The unit uses two .47uf caps at the output to filter out noise. These caps are not in series with the output, but parallel. However, they influence the resulting sound tremendously. Lyngdorf uses two Wima or similar quality caps in this key position. Replace with two .47 uf Jupiter copper foil caps and two .01 Duelund silver foil bypass capacitors. By bypass I mean just paralleling the two caps together. That’s it. Space is tight so some skill is needed to execute well.
The result is just wonderful 2170 owners. This upgrade impacts your sonic enjoyment more than a cable or even piece of gear upgrade. Very substantial.
I have done more to my unit, but this one is by far the most important.
It involves desolding/removing the Wima caps from the circuit board and then soldering in the new caps. It takes some time to disassemble the board from the chassis to access the bottom of the board. In fact, this step and reassembly represents the majority of the time and effort in this upgrade. Not that difficult at all however.
The unit sounds tremendous in every way without this upgrade, but reality dictates the builder must control costs to sell this unit through dealers at its reasonable price point. Adding $350 in parts cost would most likely increase the price of the unit well over $1000.
It's been my observation that the Lyngdorf 2170 has been well received on this thread. It has been praised and certainly generated quite favorable responses and interest. Where's the hostility toward it or its owners Bill? Just haven't seen this type of response here. I haven't heard it but on several threads have suggested that others look into the Lyngdorf based solely on the very positive feedback it has gotten form people whose opinion I respect. You seem very sensitive in defending this product. Again the talk about the Lyngdorf has been exceedingly positive IMO. Charles
Good question Charles. No hostility on this thread, but yes here on the Gon. My comments are actual quotes from several 2170 owners/members and not my own “sense” only. Hope this helps.
Teajay, i have high hopes for Aric's 300B and will get my first listen to it tomorrow. Can't wait.
I love my tube DAC, pre and amp but have a very open mind towards the Lyngdorf and will give it a try in the next year. I'm not saying I'll switch to it but I just have to give it a listen to hear what all of the buzz is about. I believe besides being a class D amp it incorporates a few other technologies that together make it something very different. Very intriguing to say the least.
I would welcome all Lyngdorf users to share their experiences with the DI's with it. As Charles stated I find this thread very accepting and cordial regarding alternate amplification. There's never a right or wrong in my book.....only what's right for your personal enjoyment. So please share your Lyngdorf/DI experiences with us.
@aniwolfe you like a Lyngdorf 2170 system. Your pleasure is not with a class of amps, but with a particular brand and design of a powered dac. I don’t like broad brush generalizations, but rather think we should share on individual pieces. Agreed?
Hi Bill, Yes, I was referencing this large thread, no negativity toward the Lyngdorf 2170. I spoke with Kenny awhile ago and he’s as happy with the 2170 asv you are. I’ve yet to read of someone who has heard it and wasn’t impressed. Charles
Really don't know why you need to defend class D amplifiers, in that I did not attack them in the first place. I clearly stated they do not produce sonicly what I'm looking for in my system based on my personal taste, not yours. I also did not , "classify all D amps" I mentioned the ones I have personal experience with, which are highly regarded, and still found them highly lacking in their performance for my ears.
Notice I'm not married to one technology, I use both SS and tube gear, but in either case there is an overall musicality I'm looking for that so far I don't get with D based amplifiers. Is there some D amplifier out there that might float my sonic boat, possibly, but I have not heard it yet. My list of other D amps is pretty extensive ( Rowland, Karma, Wired for Sound, Audio Research, Red Dragon) and yes I have heard the Lyngdorf that you rave about.
So, when you conclude my statement regarding my general dissatisfaction regarding D amplifiers is not a logical conclusion, I believe that your criticism is not valid. I don't error either in an all or nothing position or rule out in a rigid/fixed way that there is no D amplifier that exists that would ever satisfy my personal tastes. However, at this point I have not heard one that I would like to own or listen to compared to the other amplifiers I mentioned.
Your conclusion that some how I'm promoting, "class D system discrimation" on this thread is way off base and not grounded in the facts that I have shared in my posts. I have always shared my opinions bluntly, but have never attacked anyone on a personal basis or dogmatically stated that my tastes are right and others are wrong.
I don't know, maybe you own stock in the Lyngdorf company, that contributes to your strong passion in the support of their product. I'm not "invested" either for/against D amplification, just find other types of amplification much more what real music sounds like to me.
Maybe teajay hasn't read some of the posts from tube admirer's that love the Lyngdorf enough?. I know I have heard Solid State/Tube amps that sound much more mechanical and less involving compared to the Lyngdorf
We disagree it seems Terry. I read your post several times and as a reviewer your posts have meaning and impact on many. I stand by my response as a Reasonable understanding of yours and more importantly a reasonable understanding of how others will take your post. Just giving balance here and both of our comments are great for the community when taken together.
This is a wonderful thread and I am confident it will stay that way.
This is my final and respectful last response to this silly "concern" if I like or dislike D amplifiers or not.
Yes, in any type of amplification regardless if its SS, tube, hybrid, D, etc. there is the good, the bad, and the ugly. I have in ever post on this thread regarding amplifiers to use to drive the DI's/Ulf's shared up front my PERSONAL TASTE preferences in what I'm looking for in my system with these speakers. So far, in my experience I have not heard a D amplifier that gives me the timbres/tonality/color, overall liquidity, and the type of spatial dimensions that gives me the illusion of live music in my listening room. I find D amplifiers to be analytical and "Hi-Fi ish" like other gear that many listeners enjoy very much. It's just my personal taste and how I experience how different amplifiers present the sound of music. So, please just take my opinion with a grain of salt and use your own ear's to come to a conclusion that gives you what you are looking for in your system.
Yes this is a wonderful thread and there have been many meaningful discussions concerning amplifiers with commentary from quite knowledgeable people. Disagreement and alternative perspectives are expected. It isn't possible for everyone to have the same taste and listening experiences.
Teajay has heard numerous class D including the Lyngdorf and simply prefers a different sound presentation, makes sense to me. I didn't infer that he wrote off "all" class D amplifiers, just those he has personally beard.
Bill and teajay are distinct individuals and thus that they may prefer different audio components should not be surprising or unexpected. Subjectivity is alive and well. Charles
I personally have not read any posts in regards to you trying the Lyngdorf or any D Class amp with the Double Impact speakers. Can you lead me to that post or page? I am just curious as I don't have the luxury of experiencing as many amps as you. Thanks
I find it quite encouraging that many differant amps are being enjoyed driving the DI's......and other speakers. Initially I favored high powered SS amps and have gravitated to small tube amps with my first SET amp arriving tomorrow. I still appreciate what my SS amps brought to the table but prefer what tubes offer. Not sure if I'll enjoy the Lyngdorf more than my beloved tubes but I look forward to giving it a try. No matter what amp I'm employing I enjoy reading what others are using and hope everyone continues to share their experiences. If not for such dialogue I doubt my system would sound nearly as good.
On a side note. After spending the last four days in New Orleans my appreciation of live acoustical music is greater than ever. So much talent and wonderful performances everywhere you go here. Amazing! My goal with my system has been to recreate a live performance but after hearing so many great performances this weekend I just don't think I'll ever be able to recreate the lifelike dynamics and sounds I've experienced here.......but I'll still enjoy my music listening at home as much as ever.
In my role as a professional reviewer I have had in-house for review numerous D amplifiers, way before/after the DI's/Ulf's that I returned to the company because I would have written less then a positive review on their product. It is my position that if my review is going to be negative that I inform the company and give them the choice to go forward or withdraw their product for review. Yes, I have had reviews that are less then stellar regarding the performance of certain pieces of gear, but if I can't even give one star in the rating system, I think its unkind/damaging to the designer/builder not to have a chance to withdraw their product.
Almost all the D amplifiers that I have had in-house for review were not solicited by me to begin with, but I was asked by the company if I was interested in reviewing their piece. So, the only public statements that I have made about D amplifiers has been on this thread in general terms, not being highly critical of any specific brand or model.
To me, push-pull amps suck in general, Class D are less sucky than most push-pull, and certain SET amps are better than everything. It’s really quite simple too me based on my own bias and what I want to hear.
I’m not afraid to admit that I’m very curious about the Lyngdorf as I like to employ room/speaker correction in the form of various DAW software and vst plugins currently. Does anyone else here like ambiophonics or have messed with it? I’ve been using Electrovoice’s Ambiophonics vst plug-in through Reaper DAW software, along with several other vst plugins to digitally eq the sound, and having a load of fun listening to my recordings without stereo crosstalk. It brings so much more enjoyment listening to my recordings now and it’s more of an upgrade than anything else I could have wasted $10k on.
Just like the Double Impacts the Lyngdorf is not going to appeal to everyone. Heck I bought mine used from a Reviewer that used it with the Pendragons. He sold it because he thought it sounded harsh at high volumes. I am glad he did :)
This is, truly, an exceptional thread and it is buoyed by the quality of the regular contributors and the revolutionary nature of the DI. This is addressed to Grannyring and any others with exposure to both class A and class D amps. Have recently had the experience of trying out a Nord Stereo UP Class D amp on the recommendation of several on this and other threads. This was my experience. Initially, the Nord amp sounded just like a Yamaha receiver I have -- somewhat accurate but sterile and uninteresting. As it broke in, it became better in reproducing acoustical ensembles but still not of a very high quality. After shifting over to another OpAmp, the Nord did sound OK on orchestral feeds and I was planning on keeping the component. Then, the left channel died and the unit was returned to Colin -- who did the professional thing and refunded the entire purchase amount. So, after a week of listening to the DIs solely with a Class D amp, went back to my Emotive mono blocks that have 35 watts of class A that does, of course, cover most of the volume levels with the DIs. Was shocked at how much better the Class A amp was in two particular areas: 1. Tone weight and 2. vocal soundstage and accuracy. Tone weight was seen in particular with instruments such as the cello where the body and feel of the instrument came across in class A but not in D. Vocals were more prominently actually there and the accuracy of the singer was significantly improved. With the class D amp, I felt there was a lack of volume and sometimes raised the level very high without achieving the sense of visceral presence. SO, my question is this: Does the Lyngdorf 2170 accomplish the visceral sense of power lacking in the Nord description above? AND, Grannyring, had the same experience in May of this year listening to the DIs at very high volume levels with the same sense of delight. Eric mentioned to me the potential danger of ear damage with very high levels and have adjusted my levels accordingly.
Just my 2 cents since I have experience with both. You won't find any improvement (at least to my ears) over the Nord One Up with the Lyngdorf 2170 minus the room correction. It should be mentioned there were some speakers that sounded better without room perfect. The effortless power of the Nord amp gives it an iron grip with most speakers. I did find the 2170 to be easier on the ears at lower volumes though. Pairing the Nord with a quality tube preamp can eliminate many undesireable issues. I have a friend using one with an EAR 868. Devialet does a great job of making a Class D hybrid amp that retains the qualities you mention with your monos. I went from the Lyngdorf to a Devialet D-Premier and the difference in sound quality was not subtle. I personally preferred Pass Labs and ModWright with the Double Impacts but that's just me.
As a total system. I did on occasion use it as a DAC if I was in between gear swaps or just playing around. All I learned from that exercise was keep it as a complete package. One speaker I really loved pairing it with was PSB T3's. After room correction it provided such a perfectly balanced presentation from top to bottom.
I own Atma-Shere M-60 mono block amps. They are 60 watt class A but are said to perform there best with an 8 ohm load that does not have deep impedance dips.
1. I see you have an 8 ohm version can you provide the impedance curve? 2. Why is the 8 ohm version $400 more than the 4 ohm? 3. Does the 8 ohm come with the upgraded internal wiring? 4. Can the crossover components be identified in advance instead of " what is available at the time"? 5. Can the crossover be provided external to the cabinet?
To be fair after my 3rd email and 2nd phone call the young lady (I forget her name) did send an email that sort of answered questions 2, 3, and 5. The balance she stated had to be answered by Eric and that he would call me.
James, You’re the first person I know of who has heard both the Lyngdorf 2170 and Devialet and preferred the latter. There’s so much interesting input provided on this thread. One of the very best I’ve participated in on Audiogon. Simply excellent information on this thread concerning amplifiers (multiple points of view) from informed members. Charles
Are you using the M-60's with the Tekton speakers?
I'm sure Ralph would agree that without a demo using the M-60's or a stated impedance curve it would be impossible to really know how they would play together.
I think that is why Eric is ducking my questions. I bet his speakers impedance dips severely at certain frequencies.
Ozzy, When talking to Eric while ordering my speakers he mentioned that the DI's tested extremely flat which made them very easy to drive. I've found that to be very true having driven them with the one watt LTA MZ2 for months. Not sure if that's any help to you or not and hopefully Eric will respond to you soon.
Ozzy, As Tom (Mac48025) pointed out there many posts here of success with low power amplifiers which wouldn't be likely with a difficult speaker load. The 4 ohm Double Impacts simply sang with my 8 watt SET using the 8 ohm tap! I strongly believe that your amplifier would do at least as well. Plus as I recall you have step up transformers if heeded. Charles
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
