I have dedicated audio room 14.5x20.5x9 ft. Currently have Marantz Reference CD/Intergrated paired to Magnepan 1.7's with REL T-7 subs. For the vast majority of music I love this system. The only nit pick is that it is lacking/limited in covering say below 35 hz or so. For the first time actually buzzed the panel with an organ sacd. Bummer. Thought of upgrading subs to rythmicks but then I will need to high pass the 1.7's. Really don't want to deal with that approach.
Enter the Double Impacts. Many interesting things here. Would certainly have a different set of strengths here. Dynamics, claimed bottom octave coverage in one package, suspect a good match to current electronics.
I've read all the threads here so we do not need to rehash that. Just wondering if others out there have FIRST HAND experience with these or other Tekton speakers
Danoroo, not looking good for another visit this week. Life is getting in the way of fun, but I'll re-evaluate this weekend. Returned your PM. Sorry for the delay on that. My immediate advice is... buy them. Odds are very good you won't send them back. I'm even predicting evolvist isn't going to let me send the DIs I have now back to Eric. Jonesing LOL. My new/new DAC isn't here yet. I'm going to the next level on the Schitt I DAC I just got. Seems like I'm the upgrade king right now. Looks like delivery on Wednesday. THEN break-in, again. I sent Eric an email on Thursday asking for an update on the SEs. I was told 6 weeks and that was last week. Hoping to find out something today and intend to call toward the end of the day when Eric seems most available for phone conversations if he doesn't answer the email. I'm also going to rattle Klaus' cage on my Kismet amp status today. It isn't due yet, but maybe one of these manufactures will ship something ahead of schedule? Yes, I'm delusional. Sorry... It is nice Schitt seems to ship things the same day even with upgrade options. That's almost shocking.
This morning my article entitled, WHAT'S SO IRRESISTIBLE ABOUT A SINGLE-ENDED TRIODE (SET) AMP, went up on the hometheaterreview.com website. This all came about because of being able to drive the DI's easily with this type of amplifier. Hope you guys enjoy the piece, and it's being great fun "Amp Rolling" to do the research/auditioning for this article.
Interesting that Terry brings this up. I happen to be going over to Raven Audio tomorrow to check out their tube amps, as well as hearing their DIs. :-)
They are even letting me bring my AHB2 to compare their amp against mine, into the DIs. How's *that* for customer service?!
Yes, Dave and his wife are wonderful people, indeed. Say hello to Dave for me.
I have Dave's spectacular 300B integrated amplifier in-house for review and am enjoying the beauty its creating with the DI's. If one is looking for a 300B integrated amplifier, this Raven piece should be on their audition list for sure.
I can also personally vouch for Dave. He is one heck of a good guy. He knew I was trying to make a decision on the DIs and he worked through a thunderstorm to get them set up until the lightning took out most of his area. Then he cam in early to keep working in it over the weekend. They don't come any better than him.
As I listen tonight, I still have the Modwright Oppo going direct to the Benchmark AHB2 and can it be getting better? The sound now has bumped up a notch. Maybe these speakers continue to improve over the first few hundred hours but they sound unbelievable tonight. For those of you who are SS fans, I can highly recommend the AHB2 to take full command of the drivers in the DI's. I will eventually go back to the LTA amps for further comparison. I have no doubt about the ability of these speakers to out perform the 20K competition.
Very nice to read of the great sound you are hearing from your system,I would like to know how the sound your getting would differ if you put your MZ2S back in with the AHB2.
I went to the Raven Audio shop today, courtesy of Dave Thomson, the owner.
Raven is in Onalaska, Texas, about 80 miles north of Houston, where it was a trip well made.
Meeting Dave was a fantastic experience, as we waxed on about the intricacies of sound reproduction, SS vs. tubes, and of course the Double Impacts, as well as the Legacy Audio speakers he carries. Dave was even gracious enough to allow me to bring my Benchmark AHB2 amp to compare with his own amps.
The DIs that Dave has are not the upgraded model, and he maybe has 50-60 hours on them, still, they sounded rather good, yet I don't think sitting only 6ft away from speakers is for me. I think I have my own sweet spot where the sound pressure is pretty mild, even cranked to some hefty levels (don't we all?) Nevertheless, his DIs served as a fantastic conduit to compare the AHB2 along side his Osprey and Blackhawk amps.
To tell the truth, the AHB2 didn't give an inch of ground in its grip on the drivers, neither did it sound colored, nor did it have any peaks nor valleys. It performed great. Then again, the Osprey and the Blackhawks didn't have the aforementioned traits, either, that would get in the way of the music. Indeed, the amps sounded very much alike, which is a testament to Raven Audio tube amps in that there isn't a single hint of flubbyness, bloat or syrup from his tube gear. Dave's amps did, however, impart a sense of ease: a nebulous sparkle to the music, yet with no coloration, and they were as quick as can be. When I'm talking fast, I'm talking very fast!
I came close to opening my wallet.
Then came the Legacy speakers. Well, really only one floated my boat, the Focus SE, but I believe it would be too much for my 13x12x8 room. The DIs, on the other hand, required no room treatment. Indeed, they were situated only 10" from the front wall, with the side walls being unequal, in pretty much an open space. So, hey, the DIs held their own. They are certainly easy to place.
So, yeah, I might just open my wallet yet at a Raven Audio piece. Good stuff!
As for the DIs? Right now I'm weighing my options since there is no shortage of time. I'm studying and still getting the lay of the land, leaning heavy toward Tekton, even the full blown DIs for my small room, because they're so easy to place and dial in.
@kdude66 , I put the MZ2 back into the chain. The MZ2 is almost completely transparent as preamps go and pairing it with a relatively noiseless amp shows no added noise or lack of anything. There is a slightly softer tone but beautiful, still fast, dynamic and crisp. Plenty of detail still. It sounds like the sound stage has grown some.
In this comparison I can find no deficiencies with either set up. I would be happy listening either way with or without the preamp. I think perhaps if I didn't have tubes in the output section of my source then the preamp might be more of a necessity.
I've had prior experience with other adapters of this sort, and I didn't like them, yet although these Benchmark cables are light, they sure do the trick for my ears...and my ears are anal (which sounds really weird when I write that out).
Here is the main reasons to use the Benchmark brand Xlr to Rca adapters,
SPECIAL WIRING TO REDUCE HUM AND INTERFERENCE:
Back-referenced audio ground - for common-mode rejection Star-quad conductors - for magnetic immunity Dedicated shield connection - for immunity to ground loop problems RCA center pin to star-quad + to XLR pin 2 RCA ring to star-quad - to XLR pin 3 RCA ring to shield braid to XLR pin 1
These are also the most cost effective product on the market that I have seen and used.
Nice Schitt! Sorry, couldn't help it. I just added the Mani and a Bifrost Multibit to my front end. As with the tektons, the Schitt products perform well above their price range. I need my SEs and my Odyssey stuff to get here! ARRG.
Yeah, the Schiit stuff aren't the best components out there, but they are the best value I could find in the price range I was comfortable with. The same goes for the DI speakers. Which, by the way, are now sounding incredible. I installed a new amp, new speaker wire (Mogami 3103), and new speakers all at the same time so I am not sure which needed to burn in or if all did. But with 100 hours or so on the new stuff, I am getting the sound I hoped I could get!
So I bring home Led Zep 4 Vinyl today and discover it has two side twos and no side ones. And it isn't just the label. That's a first for me. Maybe that's what they mean by "remastered".
@porscheracer Thanks for sharing the photographs of your speakers and setup. It's nice to get perspective on how things look in one's room. I see you have the bike set up to serve as a diffuser! : )
Yeah, there are actually 3 bikes over by that wall right now. Those will be moving soon...as will all the boxes and crap in the room behind the speakers.
I've really enjoyed reading all the insight from tube audio folks. So much so, I've placed all my SS gear up for sale, hoping to remake a system with the DI mains and a tube integrated.
I am going to miss my anthony gallo Ref 3.1's as the truly disappear and have incredible stereo sub bass with the SA amp. When calibrated with Live Dirac and class D amp, the detail and imaging is off the charts, hyper detailed and etched, but physically feels and sounds like each note has fangs on it. My ears grow weary.
I'd like to retain my W4S dac-2 and wonder if there is any value in using it or an upgraded dac as a preamp. Since a remote is a requirement, I'd have to use the W4S dac gain stage with the potential Decware Tori Jr.(no remote). Does the ss gain stage from the dac ruin the sound or flatten it? Or would I be better off with a full tube integrated with remote (dac fixed output) like the LM 218ia or the Raven Nighthawk/Blackhawk? The room is large 16x20x8 and figure less than 20wpc could leave me wanting, especially when watching movie sound effects or listening to rock/ Exodus thrash if I'm really low on vitamin M. Most listening is jazz, blue grass and vocals.
Are DI's sensitive enough for a Triode Lab SET (2A3S-III) @3.5wpc to provide reasonable spl levels in my large room. The Triode amp appears similiar to the Decware amps minus the volume knob where both amps still require the use of my dac's ss preamp funcionality. Ideally a seperate quality tube preamp would be used but that pushes me out of my budget. I'm thinking a more resolving DAC upgrade would pay more dividends. Line Magnetic 218ia is also a SET design, but few other manufacturers reach the 20+wpc range, not sure why.
Maybe I should just keep what I've got and insert a tube pre to take the edge off this setup w4s dac-2>tube pre>(ST-500mkii/SA amp)>Gallo Ref 3.1 I'm guessing starting over with the DI's and a full tube signal path is the better way.
Interesting. The gallos are in no way bad, just missing a bit of midrange sweetness, bass response is near 20hz on the Dirac results and tight as hell. Maybe a tube pre will go far enough to fix the ss/digital edge. Thanks twoch
Great looking system, and room, porscheracer. I bet your system sounds great now but it will get even better with time.
Brotw,
Terry London is using the Triode Labs 2A3S III and the Linear Tube Audio MZ2 as a pre with the DI's in his reference system and loves it. I drive my DI's with the 1watt MZ2 and it sounds amazingly good. The DI's are very efficient and sound great with small tube amps.....with any quality amp for that matter. I have the Decware Torii mk IV and haven't used it since getting the MZ2 about three months ago. I much prefer the sound from the MZ2.....,.and the Torii is a good sounding amp. I had the Raven Blackhawk prior to the Decware and while I liked it it had noise issues with the high effiency DI's. I use the remote volume control on my PS Audio DAC but could add a remote volume control to the MZ2. The Triode Labs 2A3 FFX SET amp or a LTA ZOTL amp will be added to my system later this year.
@Mac48025, interesting about noise with the Blackhawk. Did you let Dave know what you were hearing and did he happen to say anything about it?
I'm curious, because I don't want to go down the Blackhawk path if I'm going to have problems that can't be remedied under warranty. When I heard the Blackhawk they cranked with no noise at all.
Brotw, Here’s my 2 cents worth based on what you’re seeking and music listening habits. Get the Double Impacts and drive them with The Triode Labs 2A3 SET (I definitely trust Teajay’s review and amplifier comparisons he has shared). It you feel that you want or need more power then get the Line Magnetic 845 or 805 SET.
I believe that you’ll have truly marvellous sound quality and there will be no looking back. Follow your instincts as I believe they’re guiding you in the right direction. You will have a very organic, realistic flesh on the bone presentation and high emotional involvement with your music. You’ll replace "weary" ears with happy satisfied ears. 😊, good luck. Charles
I’m pretty sure Dave has the noise issues resolved now. At the time he was at a loss as to why I and another Blackhawk owner were experiencing noise issues with the DI’s and could only surmise it was due to their high efficiency accentuating the noise. With the Legacy SE’s I could only hear the noise at a distance of about 2’ from the speaker, with the DI’s it could be heard 10’ away. The music sounded great with the Blackhawk until coming to a silent passage. The LTA amp is the best sound I’ve had yet......but I haven’t heard SET amp yet.
Brotw, Charles’ suggestion is right on IMO. Please let us know what you decide upon and how it works out for you.
@Mac48025
Good reminder. The narrowband RF transformer explained in the TAS review of the MZ2 makes sense for power bandwidth and high turns. As an RF EE, technical explanations are interesting. I take it no -s configuration needed for the tube and ps upgrade.
Charles, I've been watching Teajay's reviews closely. The magic seems to be with purchasing the MZ2 as a pre. I may have to buy a non-integrated used $1.5-2.5k amp to remain in the $4k budget and the Triode Labs seem rare. A more common used Rogue or Primaluna amp may have to hold me over for a bit and has easy resale. A Tori Jr. might also work.
I love the fact you are using very good value wire that sounds very nice indeed. I like two bulk DIY wires that represent wonderful value also.
The Western Electric NOS 10ga stranded and tinned copper wire and the new Duelund 16ga stranded copper, tinned and in oil impregnated cotton.
I ended up using the WE10 as it is warmer and full bodied sounding than the Duelund 16ga. The Duelund is more lively and open. It really depends on your system and what you are looking to accomplish.
Both easily had me selling off $2000 worth of high end cabling. Others are also finding this out. Both Jeff .Day and Jim Smith speak to this on their sites. Good stuff and priced so right. The WE10 gauge wire is only $2 foot!
No termination at all on the speaker cable for best sound. Very easy to make a set of cables for little cost.
I happened to sell off MG Audio speaker cables selling for over $2000 new.
@grannyring These are the same Gallos. I guess the class d amp, while smoother than my Parasound HCA1200ii in the midrange and definitly stronger in the bass, has some sort of irritation associated with it. I wouldn't be the first to complain.
The Dirac improvement is amazing, so much so I'm suprised more 2 ch people don't use some sort of RC (maybe their room treatments are that good). My unfiltered sound is mud, so panels and trap time maybe.
My cables are 10 gauge blue jeans cable with gold plated bananas. IC are something cheap but not the real thin garbage. I do us an MIT-Z deluxe outlet for filtering (did lower the noise floor) but no special power cords or fuses. Mains are 10ft apart and with listening position 9ft back. I could try getting closer to a rule of thirds 7/7/7 for the 20' room and pull the speakers closer together.
The Parasound should go back in to test for relief. Gallo 3.1's are known to be a bit thin in the midrange (MZ2 the rescue?), I guess that's why I'm after a different sound with the DI's and tubes. Trouble is I've heard PSB T3 ported speakers and while the midrange was glorious, the bass was lacking definition. Would have liked to plug up the ports in back but the covers were missing. Kind of goes along with sealed subs are faster and more musical or am I wrong?
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