Wow... I haven't been on this thread for more than a year when I had the mini Ulfs on order. Anyone that bought a set have anything to say about them vs the DIs?
I just finally ended up buying a set of speakers and they are being built and can't wait to get them. |
Thanks teajay
I just bought some Tektons. I was very impressed by them. I absolutely can't wait to get them. It is a complete Home Theater system and should really sound special. At least I hope so! :-)
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kdude
I only heard the Tekton speakers with tube amplification. Raven Audio Amps to be specific and they sounded great. You commented that they sound best with tube amplification. I have solid state, so I hope you are wrong there. I guess I will find out.
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Hey Teajay
Have you heard any of the Tektons with digital amps or only tube amps? I bought some but the only place I could hear them only had tube amps. I am hoping they will sound just as good.
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David:
From what I know, they don’t even have a name yet. We just call them the mini Ulfberts.
It’s kind of a long story how we got to these. And apparently Eric already had them planned but he did not mention them to me til later in our conversations.
My primary focus was Home Theater. Me and my wife are getting older and some of the movie dialog is not too good and we get irritated when we can’t make it out. So I was shopping for speakers to replace my electrostats.
I heard a lot of different brands. I could not find anything that I thought could get the most detail out of movie dialog and still knock my socks off with music. I listened to SF, B&W, Wilson, etc. (a bunch more too). I came down to the Paradigm Persona speakers for the best clarity (movies) and the Wilsons for the best music, but I really wanted to find something that could do them both.
I had heard that Legacy Audio made some real giant slayers, so I wanted to hear them. My dealer is Raven Audio here in the Houston area. I spoke to Dave (owner --SUPER nice guy) and he also told me to listen to Tekton who he was also going to be bringing in. So I went there to listen to the Legacy Signatures which were about 7K and which I had heard great things about and the Tekton DI’s which were the speakers he was getting in.
In the meantime, with Daves blessing, I was speaking with Eric to try to nail down my requirements for what I wanted. I told him I wanted something with extreme clarity openess.
We specifically discussed the center speaker and I wanted to upgrade from the DI center because I really wanted the best i could get there, so I asked if we could double the 7 speaker cluster to be like the Ulfbert for the center. Eric told me he could do that. We discussed about the DI’s being larger than I would like but I would deal with it if the sound was as good as I heard about.
That was it. No mention of anything alse at that point. i was going with DI’s and a shortened sideways Ulfbert center type of a speaker. I wanted Atmos but was reluctant to give up my JL Audio subs. Eric told me his would sound better, so I looked at the Cinema subs, but they are just way too big for me plus I have 2 subs and would want two of them.
So I told Eric that I had an appointment set up with Dave to listen to the Di’s and we spoke some more about the DI’s and their size. Eric told me that he was hearing about some other $7500 speakers and he just wanted to blow everything at the $7500 price point out of the water. He told me that the Ulfbert was the best sounding speaker he had ever heard, but they were too big and too expensive for me since I was doing the whole system. Then he told me he had designed a smaller version that was even less wide and less deep than the DIs but taller (to keep the enclosure space) that he was going to sell at $7500 to blow everything away. It seemed like exactly what I wanted because it would match my center and he said it would sound better than the DIs. I really don’t know what the rest of the driver complement is. I know it has the some tweeter config as the Ulfbert, and I guess I’ll get surprised by the rest. (I actually texted him to ask him about it since you made me want to know). I trust him so if he says it will sound better, I’m not going to question him.
I went out and listened to the DI’s and decided that I wanted to buy them. He did some trick stuff for the subs also. I already have bored everyone to death with the length of this post, so I guess I’ll leave that for another post if anyone is even interested.
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Wow... Thanks Kenny. That is quite a list. I should be good to go once I get them then!
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TeaJay:
Thank You! I was starting to worry. I listened to but did not buy the DI's. Eric told me these would be much better than even the DI's, so I could not resist. I really thought a lot of the DI's so if these are really significantly better, I am going to be in heaven.
Thanks for the info on the amps. I spent WAY more than I wanted to on these, but I wanted to do the whole Home Theater at once so I bit the bullet. My next step will be amp upgrades, but it will be a while before I pay this stuff off. Could not find anything that sounded better at anything close to the price though.
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Thanks David.
I have to admit, I was starting to worry there :-)
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milpai
I understand that they do veneers for an extra cost.
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Thanks David. No, I don't. I am going to let him figure it out. I don't even know the final driver configuration yet but I think the bass drivers probably have to be 8" drivers to fit the new width.
These won't fit into my system... they WILL BE my new system. I am even going out on a limb and ordering new subs to replace my JL Audio Fanthoms. Surrounds and rears will be the shelf version of the DI's but thinner so it really should be something.
I had originally decided on Paradigm Personna speakers. The Beryllium drivers sounded super clean to me (they still do), but musically the DI's are better (IMO) and they might even be better for clarity also. I spent some time listening to the DI's and they really sounded good.
I've got an Anthem Processor that uses ARC so it should optimize the speakers pretty well. I hope so anyway!
When are you going down there to listen to them?
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mac:
I'll tell you what... I have gained so much respect for Eric. The first time I called him was an evening. It might have been a weekend even. I don't remember. I expected to leave a message but I wanted to do that so I didn't forget to call during business hours and I would already be in the call back queue. Eric answers the phone and we spoke for a while. I could tell he had a lot going on but he spent the time necessary with me on the phone and never seemed short. Whenever I call he is always in the middle of doing many things. He really does need help and he recently hired an assistant that I have spoken to a few times. Obviously she does not have his knowledge but she is very friendly and extremely willing to help. She seems sharp and I think she will get there knowledge-wise sooner than later.
And, yes, Eric thinks outside the box big time. He came up with a crazy good subwoofer solution for me that I hope he patents.
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Jeffrey:
I had not read your previous post about the Ulfberhts. I REALLY want to hear what you think of them. I hope the mini versions sound almost as good.
How long did it take from the time you ordered until they shipped?
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Mac:
I heard the Focus SE’s when I went to hear the DI’s. I like them. I didn’t read the whole thread, and I’m sure you mentioned it, but do you also have some Tektons? If so, are you keeping both and which do you like more?
EDIT: I went back and read some pages back and see you have the DI's. Are you also keeping the Focus speakers? Just curious. |
Thanks Jeffrey. I am guessing mine might take longer but 2 weeks to make them is really very reasonable. I will be looking forward to your impressions.
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iamasif
I agree. I had actually asked Eric about this very thing. At this point in time he is not supplying any sort of brackets and is not making the speakers with any type of mounting capabilities. Any threaded inserts would need to be done for a particular mounting pattern.
So it really is an issue. The two rears will be sitting right above our seating area pointing down on top of us, so I am concerned about it also. Eric said to get some brackets, screw them into the speakers and use catch cables.
Once I get them, I am going to do a review of the different bracket types and may in fact put inserts into the speakers myself.
So I guess what I am saying is I am not really sure either. I need to get it solved. I was thinking about a different brand of wall mounted speaker, but I would like to keep it the same.
If anyone on this forum has dealt with and solved this issue, it would be great to hear about it.
One thing that will help me is that the rears will only be about 4" deep, so that will keep the mass down, but it is still an issue to solve.
Right now my leading candidate of an idea is a mount (a mini one) like that is used to mount a flat screen TV to a wall and allow it to tilt down. I would need one that would allow a 90 degree of tilt down so I had the ability to tilt it down as much as I need. I do not think a bracket like that would be that hard to find. then I would put screw inserts into the back of the speaker and screw the other part onto the wall. The fact that the speakers would have little clearance to the back side of the cabinet makes me nervous about drilling holes. I wish there was an actual Tekton solution but at this point in time, there is none.
Then I have to figure out how to attach a catch cable to the speaker. An internet search for speaker catch cable did not get me anywhere. |
Hey Kenny:
The color I chose was also metallic black. Do you think that the metallic black looks better than the standard piano black?
I think that the speakers are a super buy and part of it has to do with the savings in finish. I really think the gloss finish is needed to help dress them up, but that’s just my opinion.
I was going for the Legacy Audio look -- they have a metallic that has larger flakes and more spread out -- it looks like black granite which is a nice look IMO.
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David:
Your system is going to be very close to mine. I have an AVM60 and will probably go with the NAD M27. I have the Oppo 203.
I agree -- I am going out on a limb with the JL Audio subs. They are really excellent. No complaints whatsoever. I think some of the best subs made. Eric told me his would be faster and better matched to the speakers. Yes, I will have both for a short while and I am definitely going to compare. |
As far as the center, that is where the majority of the dialogue comes from and I focused on that during my listening session.
First, I LOVE ribbons and electrostats. I am getting older and am going to have to move to something smaller and so I am getting rid of my 2 channel setup which I never use since it sits upstairs and want to just go to a HT that also plays music excellent.
My two channel speakers are Apogee Stage speakers which just sit there. I thought about making them my left and right for HT, but they are too wide and I don't know what I would do for the center. But that's the kind of open sound I like.
I made it a point to listen to some badly recorded movie dialogue and wanted to hear the Legacy speakers both because they have an excellent reputation and they have that super ribbon tweeter.
I listened to the Signatures and the DI's. It took literally 10 seconds to determine (at least to my ears) that the Signatures were not in the same league as the DI even though they cost around $7000.
So then I moved to the Focus speakers which I want to say are about $11000. I really liked their sound and they are finished very nicely. This was more of a fair fight. I thought they were very close even though the DI speakers were not broken in. The Legacys supposedly get compared to speakers twice their cost and here a set of $3000 speakers was right there with them.
I used the Legacy Silhouette Center with the Legacy Audio Signatures. The sound was great. I put in the movie soundtrack and it sounded very good to me. As good as my memory told me that the Paradigm Persona sounded on them (wish they were there for a head to head).
Dave did not have a Tekton center so we had to move one of the DI speakers over to do the center duty and the Focus speakers were the sides. Not the best, but my real priority was to see how the dialogue sounded through that tweeter array versus a really good ribbon.
I thought the DI did an even better job than the Focus did, but I have to admit that it was close. The Focus speakers are no joke. But they are about 3X the cost and I still think the DI speakers are just a little better. You can't go wrong with either, but with the cost difference, I just don't think there was a real comparison. You can make the argument that the Focus are better looking - and they are, but too big a difference in cost.
Plus, in a HT, when you think that you have to buy the surrounds and the centers, all of the cost difference really adds up. The surrounds that sounded as good as the Focus for me were the Calibre and they are $5500 a pair and large. They sound great. but you take a look at what a HT with Legacy will cost and what a Tekton will cost for the same or better sound, and it made it easy. Plus, I am sure the double tweeter array will be even better. |
Honestly, I think that you can have tube components that sound bad as well as sound good. The very same with solid state components. You can have good and bad.
You can find stuff that finds great with both types. Some people may have a preference for one or another (hence sounds better to them), but I think you can have someone that would like just the opposite. I think once you hit a certain level, you start to split hairs, but that's just my opinion.
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Lance:
I am actually going to be replacing a set of Final Sound Electrostats in my surround and a set of Apogee Ribbons with mine. Let me know what you think when you get them. I think you will get yours first.
I feel like an old fuddy duddy having ordered black metallic when everyone else is ordering orange! |
Kenny,
Orange flames.....
hmmmm.
I'll call Eric in the morning. I wonder how long that will add to my lead time? :-)
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Bob:
I am really glad to hear that. My primary use will be HT. I did a lot of listening and the DI's just had the clarity and presence I wanted in my HT. I can't wait to get mine. I also ordered 4 ATMOS ceiling speakers with matched drivers. I really can not wait to hear it.
I have a question. The speakers I really liked that I heard were the Paradigm Persona, The Wilsons and the Legacy Aeris.
Did you hear any of them?
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oh wow. I’m in Spring. Maybe I’ll do that. I heard the 803 diamond series also. I liked them a lot. Very forward sound, but to me at least pleasing. They were a different sound than others I heard but I liked them enough to get on my short list. Good speakers. The 805 would make for incredible surrounds except for the price.
BTW, this is a big upgrade for me. I've been listening to 5.2 in my home theater so this will the first time I get past speakers and subs. Is there much difference in the immersion factor between 5 and 7 speakers? Some say yes, and some say it is not worth it.
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Bob:
Same thing with the Atmos. Some people say meh.... and some people say it is a real eye opener if done right. I have no idea myself. As I say. I've just only had 5 speakers.
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Jeffrey -- That is great to hear. Have you heard the DI? I am curious as to the difference between the two if you have.
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Jeffrey:
Thanks. This is super interesting to me. How is the clarity and detail comparison? The human voice.
I would suspect that the bass would be better because of the size of the bass drivers so that does not surprise me. You have 2 12" vs 2 10" bass drivers. There are double the number of mid-bass drivers (4 vs 2).
The reason I ask about clarity is because I have heard others say that the Brilliance has more clarity than the DI. The brilliance has a 3 cluster tweeter array whereas the Di has the 7 cluster array.
If adding more drivers muddies the clarity, then the Ulf would in theory be even less clear than the DI.
The mini Ulfs I have on order have the double 7 speaker array like you do and so that was concerning me. I'd love to hear what you have to say on that.
Have you ever heard the Legacy Audio Aeris? |
mac --
Actually I remember that article from Terry. I know that the center is the only true tweeter, but I guess I still call it a tweeter array. The gist of what I was wondering is that if the 3 array configuration has more clarity than the DI 7 tweeter array, then would the Ulf 15 tweeter array have even less clarity?
It surprises me that Brilliance has more clarity than the DI. I thought the Di has excellent clarity. |
I wish I knew. I have not heard the brilliance. I thought the DIs were exceptionally clear so when people said the Brilliance were clearer than the DIs, that just started me thinking.
Eric has not told me what drivers he is using in the Ulfberht Minis. I believe he was toying with 4 8" bass drivers, but I do not know the quality of them (or the other drivers) and if he considers the Mini to be in the PMD line or regular line. I know Eric wanted to make a statement with the minis in the $7500 space so I am assuming he is putting in the good stuff but I honestly do not know. |
Aol:
I am guessing that maybe I am the one you might have thought was upset, but Mac is right on. I am not upset at all. Just throwing ideas around as he says. I completely trust Eric. The man knows what he is doing and I feel like he is taking care of me. I guess I could just pick up the phone and ask him about the 3 speaker array vs the 7 speaker array in terms of differences, dynamics and clarity but hell.... I have questions all the time and if I call him every time I wonder about something I’d never leave him alone.
The end of this week will be the two week mark out of the four weeks he said it would take so I was going to call him and see if he was still on schedule and I’ll probably ask him. But I’m not worried about it. |
By the way....
I did speak to Eric briefly last week about something interesting. I honestly almost pulled the trigger, but I am downsizing and selling off my stereo stuff and only going to use my HT setup for both TV and music.
I was looking at his complete speaker line and came across the OB Sigma speaker. Read the stuff Eric was saying on this page. He brought the price down from $3000 a pair to $1750 because he is upset that he is not selling more of such a fine speaker. So I went off and read a review on them. Surprise..... another Tekton speaker with a great review.
I thought it was a hell of a deal and asked Eric about it. He told me it was pretty much a class A amplifier music speaker rather than a HT speaker. I actually thought about keeping a 2 channel system just because of these speakers, but between how much money the HT system is costing me and the fact that I am getting closer to retirement and will be downsizing, having room for both a HT system and a 2 channel system in a smaller house just was not going to work.
But honestly guys, this is something that I hope someone will jump on so I can live vicariously through you!
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Wow... Good stuff Jeffrey. Eric really spoke highly of the Ulfs. Good to hear your comments. |
Terry:
I have a question but it concerns multi-channel SS amps. I know you do some of that but a lot of what you do is 2 channel. I was going to go with a NAD M27 amp for my HT. Have you run across any multi-channel amps that fall into the category of the Tektons in the sense of comparing to much higher priced equipment for a lower price?
Any other recommendations other than the M27?
Thanks |
Thanks Terry. I appreciate that.
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Jeffrey -
So other than the bass (more and better), midrange and treble (more detailed) all sounding better than the DI, I guess there is not much to talk about :-)
Seriously though, can you go into the "forward" nature of the Ulf. I can take that to be either a positive or a negative. The DI is also pretty forward, so do you mean the Ulf is too forward? Or maybe describe forward in what way?
Thanks.
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Jeffrey:
I am assuming the detail is not in the bass? So you have the difference in the bass as well as the detail in the mids and highs?
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David:
I am having the same issue I am struggling to visualize (audiolize? :-)
what Jeffrey is trying to explain. I was taking forward to mean bright? kind of like a B&W, but still not sure. |
I heard three or four of the SF line of speakers before I went with the Tektons. Everyones taste is different. I thought the lower end Sonus were ok, but the higher end speakers I thought were very good. I liked them a lot. For me, they did not leave me thinking that they were worth that kind of money and I had to have them like some other expensive speakers did. Personally, I do not think they did anything that the DIs could not, but that is just to my ears. I do have to say that the higher end ones look great. Would definitely dress up a room. |
Thanks Jeffrey
I'm not sure how I feel about that. My first thought is that it might not be "natural", but without hearing it I am just making conclusions that I have no business making. But in general, I don't like being right on top of a band. The soundstage does not open up. Not sure if that is the case with the "in your face" presentation you are describing. |
David:
So I take it that you had to drill out the bottoms of your speakers an used some brass threaded inserts? Did you elect to drill all the way through the wood? It seems with the 1" stud, you would have had to do that.
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So I have a stupid question. I am getting rid of my stereo setup to consolidate. I am not going to have room for two setups. I am still not convinced of the need for both a stereo and HT setup.
However, just for arguments sake, lets say that you would want different equipment for 2 channel. I know I am not going to have room for two setups any more.
Is there a way to keep the Tekton HT speaker setup but have two setups for equipment driving the front L & R speakers? You turn on the 2 channel amp for music and turn on the multichannel amp for HT?
Also seems like there is a margin for error in case both amps are left on. I guess the first step would be to get the front speakers with 2 sets of binding posts?
BTW, I have not done any real tube amp critical listening. The only ones I heard were from Raven Audio -- I have not heard them mentioned here. They sounded very good to me, but not really sure how they would sound against good SS or other tube amps.
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Well, hell.... that tears that idea. That was the best Idea I had so far today too.
Wait... I just had another.... I'm going to need a toothbrush, some bailing wire, duct tape, some toothpicks and a turkey baster. I'll be right back.....
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bullitt
I am going the Atmos route. I have had people tell me that there is not a big difference and others that swear it is astounding. The common thread is that it has to be dome right. And obviously the material has to be encoded for it to be at it’s best, but more and more of it is coming out.
Where I heard it, I could not tell a big difference from just good surround, but I spoke to one of the other sales people from the facility and they told me that he spoke to the guy that gave me the demo and it was not done right. Not sure exactly why, but he invited me to go back when he was there and he would set it up for Atmos listening for me. I never got back there, but am going to try to get there before I get my speakers.
I am looking forward to trying it. |
Wow...
Good stuff. Thanks Terry. |
Just my opinion, but the site is really not bad. It could be more polished, but whos couldn't? Again, just my opinion but the real deficiency is the lack of description/differences between the speakers. Professional designers can't help there.
IMO (yet again), only Eric can do that, but taking the time to do that may be perceived as of lower importance to trying to get all of the orders out and the time designing new products.
I agree that he probably needs to take a really critical eye to his product line and see if he needs all of them and then to help any potential buys discriminate between the speakers while providing information as to recommended room sizes, types of amps, music types, etc.
Whatever might help discriminate one from another. I think he needs to do that and he will get more orders and have to be on the phone less. I think he still will need to deal with infrastructure also. I am not sure he can handle all the growth he has going on now and even more growth may cause further delay in shipping speakers.
I hope he does get to it though. I think it would help him.
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Soundermn:
Actually Eric has a tool on his site that I have not seen elsewhere and I personally found it useful. It is a graphic of a man standing next to the various speakers and shows them in relation to a man. That helped me. Not sure it is what you are looking for, but if you have not seen it, it is worth a look. |
Bullitt:
That right there is the graphic I was talking about on Erics site. I thought it was useful when I was deciding. |
Wow Jeffrey, that is awesome. I really liked the DI's so I can't wait to get mine. As a matter of fact, I think you should send me yours so I can confirm your findings :-)
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Craig,
Hopefully you had a Dachshound and not a Great Dane. |
fidobite:
I have a set of Apogee Stages that I am going to be selling because I am going down to just a HT system and removing the 2 channel setup. I have been really slow to sell the Stages since they have almost no use on them and I LOVE the openness. I know the Stages are different than the Duetta, but did you feel the Sigmas sounded better than the Apogees?
I spoke to Eric on the SIgmas because I wanted a pair at the price he is selling them at but since I am going to just HT did not have a place to put them. I got the Impression from Eric that the Sigma sound was different than the DI/Hulfberht sound.
If you move to the DI you'll have to let us know how different the sound really is. Eric characterized the Sigma to be a 2 channel class A type speaker. Not 100% sure what that meant, but I took it to mean less dynamic (movie soundtracks) and more musical, but much music also requires dynamic attacks, so really not sure what to make of the sound difference. |
