Tekton Double Impacts
@brotw , I have a very good idea for you based on my experience with your speaker cable. I used it in the past and know the sound. It can sound bright. The ICs from them can also sound bright. I owned both. Buy the Western Electric 10 gauge bulk wire below. It is sold by the foot as twisted sets! So if you need an 8 foot set on one side, then buy 8 feet per side from this seller. Do not terminate. Just strip and hook up the bare wire. Please start here. An 8 foot set will cost you $65 and drop your jaw after 100 hours of run in. You will indeed warm up your sound and hear more body and fullness through your wonderful DI speakers. Your sound will become more natural and unforced. I will eat one foot with salsa if I am wrong😊 Start here and know where to go from there based on what you hear. Also, I would be willing to make you one meter ICs using the Duelund 16ga wire with Switchcraft RCAs for the cost of the parts - about $65 also. These will also so improve your system. I can say this with absolute confidence. http://www.ebay.com/itm/per-foot-Western-Electric-AIW-10ga-STRANDED-cloth-covered-gray-PAIR-/2316636... |
@grannyringc Come to think of it, I am using blue jeans IC as well! It's been 8 years since the purchase, but you jogged my memory. Assembled the speaker cable myself. If your right, some new western electric 10 gauge might help. I'm not one for expensive cables but Cerious is getting alot of attention for their power cords and speaker cable,teo audio for their IC. I took your advise and moved the speakers closer, 6.5 apart and 8 feet from listening position, I also turned the Gallo Ref 3.1 speaker woofers outwards, yes, still haven't sold 'em for the DI's. Ran the Dirac cal and made several filters, some rolling the highs. The results are still impressive. When instruments and voices are crystal clear and feel like there in the room, the system is not far off. The sound is still sharp and nips at my ears. Turn Dirac off and some irritation goes away, veiled with the muddled images. Not too different from the viel of noise i got from a bad receiver preamp. A good power cord and tube preamp may be all I need, maybe some cable too. Thanks |
Yeah it is work to get the system where you want again when you make a speaker change. Are the speakers pointing straight ahead with no toe in at all? This is where you should start. All you know any toe in will increase he upper mids and highs energy to your ears. You mentioned some very good wire/cabling and this is a good place to look based on your current cabling. Before spending that kind of money the $69 option I gave you is competitive sound quality wise. It's hard to believe, but true, Right now another Agoner with over $2000 of used wire for sale is also learning how great the Duelund and WE10 wire is. |
Jeffrey, I don't have my Tektons yet, but my plan is to use the NAD M27 which I think is a class D amp ( don't have that either, unfortunately). I will be using a class A/B SS amp in the meantime. After listening to many amps, I honestly believe that you can have enough latitude with any amp design to where you can make it "lean" towards other types of amps. My personal belief is that almost any amp technology can be made to sound great. That great has to line up to each individuals "great" however. I think it is in the engineering and the components for any amp. You can have several amps all with super low distortion figures that all line up in that regard, but they will all sound different. I don't think it is a class D issue as much as the amp you choose, IMO. |
333Jeffrey i have been using a Calyx CTI for over a week now. Class d integrated 200 watts per channel into 4 ohms. Used and pre broken in. Sounds very good I must say. Awesome bass control and clean clean clean. Great dynamics and just a shade of warmth. Like it way better than the class d Rougue Sphinx I had for a while. Volume control goes from 0-92 and about 25 is about as high as I go and it's very loud. |
@333jeffery I did drive the Tekton Double Impacts with the NAD M27 for a short time. This was a few months ago, and I was evaluating the Oppo UDP 205 (rather than the M27s or the DIs). Driven by the 205 - M27s pairing the DIs sounded very clean with tons of detail. I’m breaking in a Pass XA30.8 now. If you need to make a decision quickly, I can swap in the M27; otherwise, I can put it in system a week from now. Let me know. +1 on what @vitop says in his above post. If you like the sound of good Class D, you should be ok with it. As you know, and as has been mentioned many times in the thread -- The DIs are honest and will reflect what you have in the chain ahead of them. FYI, The M27s are Hypex N-Core. |
@roxy1927 As you know, so much of our hobby is about personal preferences and personal choices based on any number of varying factors. The only way for you to truly know is to hear the Kef Blades and the upper level Tektons for yourself and decide. I don't believe there is a perfect speaker out there, but at the individual level there are probably some; and for you it might be the Kefs or Tekton or something else. The Tekton owners as well as some other active members on this thread are very helpful and if you are looking for specific guidance, do reach out. |
@333jeffery, two things: 1.) How are your Ulfs doing? Have they they settled in yet? You think they’re still that much of a difference between the DIs, say, the DIs are about 70% of the Ulfs? 2.) It might sound like I’m biased, but I swear I’m not. The D-Sonic amps from Houston, Texas kick the hell out of the NAD gear, for a much lower price. Even if, let’s say, both amps were sonically on par, you’re still looking at a much lower cost with an incredible build from the D-Sonics, to boot. I matched up my AHB2 with the D-Sonic amp, and there wasn’t much of a difference in instrument separation, bass-grip, and headroom up to about 100 watts. The only supposed knock on Class D amps, to me, is that they are switching amps, and they just don’t switch fast enough to not futz with the incoming signal. That is to say, if one buys into the science of upsampling to reconstruct the original wav, like I do, then you’re defeating a little bit of the sonic purpose. I liken it to not quite letting the full flow of a water out of your garden hose, though that’s what you require to water the lawn. On the other hand, it’s highly suspect that the human ear can hear the difference with a switching amp disallowing small trickles of water at a time. Then again, if water was missing but one molecule, it would no longer be water, and the same could be said for accurate reproduction of sound. You have a Schitt Yggy, right? |
Okay, so...I made another trip over to Bullitt's house to hear his new Schitt DAC, as well as his new speaker placement. His system is really starting to come into its own for two-channel. When I put my ABH2 in again, the sound just bloomed once more. This will be a good indicator of what his rig will sound like when he gets his new tube-pre and amp in. What's more, he's also getting the Double Impact Special Editions (SE), so I would expect big things from his system. It was at Bullitt's house that I realized that I had never been unconvinced of the DI's sound, only that with the thought of the mini-Ulfs floating around my gourd. So,do I go for broke with a $7500 slightly ugly pair of speakers that I've never heard, or do I get some DIs and possibly always wonder what I'm missing? Not only that, but I wonder how much of a compromise the mini-Ulfs will be against their bigger brother. I just don't have the space for the full-sized Ulfs. I'm thinking, there's no way Eric gets the 12" woofers into the minis. From my understanding, the mini-Ulfs will be 5'3" tall, depth 15" and a width of...damn, I forgot the number and it's written on a piece of paper somewhere. I'm tempted to say that Eric said 10.5". That would be the width of the Electrons. At any rate, if I don't make up my damn mind soon, that will be even more time without speakers, as these assuredly take a long time to come in. Lord know I would have to order the mini-Ulfs with grills. :-) |
@david_ten , well, I hope I don’t raise any hackles here. :-) Heh. But Merrill can put all of the fancy wire they want in their amps, all of the bling, hyperbole and superlatives into their amps, but it’s still a switching amp no matter how you slice it. It’s still a gate of sorts to the signal you’re sending it. To be fair, though (as if there is really such a concept), I’m over here thinking about tube amps for the first time in my life which obviously adds distortion to the signal that I’ve spent so many dollars to protect. Even beyond that, in the probably futile search of "a wire with gain," my current AHB2, even with a distortion profile way below human hearing, still uses tons of negative feedback to get it done, thus it doesn’t have an optimal dampening factor. We can go even further and say that many, of not most, SS amps adds crazy even order harmonics that is simply not natural to most instruments. So, yeah, there are trade-offs everywhere. Nobody has a bead on perfection. That said, can I hear a gated effect in a Class D amp? The answer is no, I cannot. It's all academic. :-) |
My decision was always going to be a SS amp, but my decision to go with a clad D amp, did not come easily. Truth be told, I am (was) a class D bigot. And I don't mean a bigot for class D. I didn't want anything to do with it. As I mentioned, my primary use will be HT. I am working with a person that has professionally worked making commercials, so he knows about the HT sound and how the sound steering should work. Quite interesting actually. He is the one that steered me to the Anthem processor because he said he thought it did the best job of moving the sound around seamlessly between where it was supposed to go. He also recommended the M27 to me. I respect what he told me, but I thought to myself "you can't be serious, with all that is out there." I started reading as much about class D amps as I could and the M27 specifically. I could not find anything bad on the M27, and some comparisons were to some pretty expensive amps. I also did speak to Dennis at D-Sonic since he is local. His amps put out much more power. Most of the people I spoke to about his amps had good things to say. In the end, with myself finally convinced that I could not only live with but like a good class D amp, my friend promised me that the dynamics of HT would be superb and that the musicality of the M27 was excellent. So that is going to be my amp. I just googled M27 review and this came up http://www.soundstagexperience.com/index.php/equipment-menu/636-nad-masters-series-m27-seven-channel... I've actually read better, but this review is pretty typical. Yeah.... it surprises me too... |
Evolvist, You are most certainly right, all amplifiers regardless of topology present some degree of tradeoffs, this is unavoidable. Super low distortion as a result of utilizing NFB then introduces the unwanted higher odd order distortion (5th,7th and 9th) that Ralph (Atmasphere) has described often on this forum. It’s always going to be some form of compromise/tradeoff to content with. Best solution is to choose what sounds right/better to your ears and accept the fact that it is not perfect in every sonic parameter, nothing is. Charles |
@evolvist and @bullitt5094 Great to hear Bullitt's system is coming together. Looking forward to hearing more about the SEs once they are fully run-in. @vitop I'm pleased with the NAD M27. And it is frustrating that it is sitting idle while I wait for my HT system to take shape. Like you, I've been impressed with it's reviews and performance in my system. And like you, I will probably have the Anthem AVM 60 in front of it. But I wouldn't choose it as my go to amp for 2ch, as long as I had choices. For that, I have a very clear lean towards Class A/B and now finally a Class A amp in the Pass XA30.8. Your response to 333Jeffery made me think it would be good to get it back in system and see how it does, now that my system is more 'mature' and better dialed in than it was when I had just received the Double Impacts. |
Evolvist, the Ulfs now have over 100 hours on them, and they are still breaking-in. If I had to call it right now, I would say the DI's get you 75% of the way to the Ulfberhts. But this can change as I put more hours on them. I am using the Yggy dac, and it seems to pair well with the Tektons. One thing I can say for sure about the Ulfs is that they respond very enthusiastically to power, much more so than the DIs. My dad put this to the test by playing some of his classical piano cds through them, and cranking up the volume to thunderous levels. I'm talking heavy metal concert levels! The Ulfs didn't once strain/distort/compromise the sound quality. The piano sounded amazing, almost like having a concert grand in the room with us. |
David: What is the difference that you can hear between the M27 and the class A/B or even class A? Quieter background, more sound spectrum, dynamics or exactly what? Clean sound should be clean sound no matter what it is playing. If the M27 does not sound as well on music as the class A/B or class A, then I can't believe that it would sound as good on HT either. I plan on running music through mine also. |
@vitop It's a very good question. And I plan to find out much more specifically, when I bring the M27 back in. It will be a good test for me. These things / differences are about preferences and experiences. And they uniquely become more about us than uniquely about the electronic component. I also come from having a tube based system and bias when I was seriously into 2ch audio circa 2006 to 2012. Since then, until this April, I have had a major holiday from 2ch. In this now current iteration I've decided to go solid state. For now. : ) I'll try to answer your question, but I apologize in advance if what I share is not satisfactory. First off, I'll say that each of these amps has a 'signature' to its sound re-production via the DIs that my ears differentiate over longer listening periods with each amp. These are not serious nor negative differences, but differences nonetheless. If I only had a single amp, I'd be happy accepting any one of them. They are all good enough for my needs. BUT, AND THIS IS IMPORTANT, I also accept that there are better amps (to my ears) available than what I have. I spent more time comparing the Moon Neo 330A and the SST SoA mk2, which are both class A/B (and not the M27 since it's multi-channel and is planned for HT) when I first got the DIs. I realized that the SST was ultimately preferable (and this was after initially preferring the Moon) and it was mainly because it was 'warmer,' with more body than the Moon Neo and I liked how the musical 'energy' was portrayed by the SST. As I've tweaked and upgraded my system, the SST has been able to keep up and showcase the changes along with the DIs and the rest of the chain. In terms of the M27, I'm going from memory from about 4 months ago, when my system was just being re-built. I'd say that it boils down to my musical and emotional response, with the other amps delivering more of the connection to the music and artists that's important to me. If it was the only amp I had, despite the extra channels, I'd be happy listening to 2ch or to a hybrid 2ch/HT system via this amp. Once you get your Tektons in, play with different amps...perhaps some local audio buddies can bring their amps over...I understand @evolvist loves to travel with his! : ) I'd also be happy to send the SST to you, when you have your system setup and dialed in for you to compare with your M27, driving the main L/R channels. |
The second meeting of the NW Houston Audio society was a smashing success. Evolvist, thanks for coming over for you dose of Tekton while making up your mind. Your input on the system sound has been very helpful in my efforts to improve it. I'm also glad you enjoyed your Vinyl exposure even-though my cartridge and phono pre cost less than most analog folks pay for a stylus replacement. And we certainly listened to a wide range of music. Elvis to Bleachers? :-) |
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James, welcome to the thread. And thanks for telling us about your system and what worked for you with the amps you have had on hand. Love the pics on your Canuck Audiomart site. The DIs look sweet...what colour? Mine are soft grey. You've got quite a collection of speakers and components. Seeing the Totem Winds brought back memories. Good ones. |
James - truly impressive line-up of speakers and amps you own/owned. I'm with Charles - you would really take the DIs over the ML ESL15A is that what you are saying? If so, that's a very impressive endorsement. I realize your comments may be coming from "sound memory" but I'm particularly interested in how the DIs would generally compare to the Totem Acoustics and Marten Heritage. I currently have Von Schweikert VR-7 HSE and I just can't pull the trigger on the DIs because I can't believe they would out perform my VR-7. Any input you may have would be much appreciated. Thanks! |
Hello Gentlemen, Eric will be shipping out tomorrow to me a pair of Ulfs for reviewing purposes. I will have the great luxury of still having the review pair of DI's to compare the Ulfs to, and numerous (seven amplifiers) to get a very comprehensive take on them. I'll post here as soon as I get a cursory take on them and look forward to writing the formal review in the next six to eight weeks for hometheatereview.com. |
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@James_w514, yeah, you know, that 8" driver is probably not optimal for large rooms. Mine is small, at 13x12x8, so I figured I would go for it, especially since bass is so hard to control and also difficult to articulate right with a sub. There are usually big tradeoffs somewhere in the design. Rationally, I ciphered that with my room size I'll get the bass articulation of the DI's dual 10", but perhaps without some of the struggles. Meh, if worse comes to worse and I fall crazy in love with the mini-Ulfs, yet I find bass to be lacking, I have this JL F110 sitting here collecting dust that I could really dial in to dip pretty low. The JL has room correction so it shod dial in nicely, and though it's a 10", itself, it sounds much deeper and goes much deeper, with great authority. Perfect for a smaller room. At least that's what I imagine at the moment...or we'll see. |
Evolvist, I wish that that the mini Ulf was out so we could in fact get impressions on the bass, but I trust Eric to make it sound right. I don't know anything about speaker design but I do know that if he uses a driver with a larger incursion he can move just as much air as a 12" driver out of the 8". I've been reading about it more and apparently if the drivers are close together will sound as if coming from one source. I suspect that on the minis the drivers will be on opposite ends of the cabinet. As seen on this very forum, some people will immediately walk away because of the 8" drivers, but I have heard vertical arrays that lack nothing in bass. Eric may have a little bit of an upward grind selling them until he can get a valid reviewer to bless the bass (assuming it really is there), but the physical size has benefits and many people will buy it if it has the goods. As of now, we don't know what drivers he is putting into them. I would like to see 3 high quality bass drivers, but I tend to think now that it might be only 2. Everything is speculation at this point but it will be resolved and Eric really wants to take the $7500 market with this speaker. I think he will make sure it sounds right. He is not stupid. Many $7500 speakers have larger bass drivers (heck, even the DI has 10"). He knows what he is up against when he is designing these. Can't wait to find out what the end result is. |
Evolvist, if you want to come over and play with sub integration with my DIs, let me know. I actually think you’ll like it. I take the sub in and out depending on the what genre I’m playing. And I always have it on to handle the LFE during movies. Just a thought. And when yours arrive we can certainly put them in the same room with mine for low end analysis and everything else analysis for that matter. |
