Talk me out of buying Monoblocks and into a stereo amp instead

@jeffreyw how do you feel about a c 12000 preamp sound compared to the system you are switching to? 

@jsalerno277 

started with McIntosh 1.25’s

went to ARC 160S

ended at Burmester 218

Good Luck @dman777 

@dman777 

The C12000 sounded beautiful in the system I listened to. However, my MAC system cannot compete with the Solution 331. It is not even close. The Soulution was paired with Magico A5s. I love McIntosh, but they are not in the same league. What came out of the Magicos was an eerily present performance. I read one review where the reviewer stated that the "331 produced sounds that made him turn his head and thought it was an artifact in the room." He eloquently stated what I heard, but I could not put this into my own words. 

Solution is more analytical and less warm than MacIntosh. This sound may not be to your liking, but it has made me rethink what I find important in musical presentation. 

Again, some context here.  

If you have 90db sensitivity speakers in a medium sized room, a robust 200 WPC stereo amp is more than enough.  

If you have 84db 2 ohm min load large tower speakers in an extra large room, mono blocks are a practical way to get more power.  

@jeffreyw In your transition to the new Solution system, have you sold your monoblocks yet? I was curious how difficult or easy it is for you to sell them?

Again, some context here.  

If you have 90db sensitivity speakers in a medium sized room, a robust 200 WPC stereo amp is more than enough.  

If you have 84db 2 ohm min load large tower speakers in an extra large room, mono blocks are a practical way to get more power.  

I am pretty sure that there are high powered stereo amps out there, as well as low powered monoblocks.  

@dman777 

Have not tried to sell yet. Still working things out. 

All things being equal, mono blocks should have an advantage. But it’s more about the quality of the amp(s). A better designed and built stereo amp will outperform mono amps of the same output. And it’s rare that you could compare mono and stereo amps of the same power rating from the same manufacturer.

@immatthewj

of course there are exceptions. in general a parasound JC1 monoblock (for example)  offers 850 watts at 4-ohms in a 107 lb chassis while the same power in a two channel amp would have prohibitive weight and size. It is a way to support the needs of more demanding power requirements while not requiring a hoist to get it into your room.

I tried dual mono block amps and while a high quality design the overall tone and transparency was not what I was after.

As long as the amp has adequate power and capabilities at lower impedances depending on speakers I prefer the sound based on how they sound and not whether they offer an advantage on paper because they have an extra power supply and power cord.

Comparison is only valid in cases when the same amplifier is offered in monoblock and stereo versions by the manufacturer.

Of those, I can't recall a single instance of a stereo version's sound quality being preferred over the monoblocks'.

@jeffreyw I was going to ask, please....

1) For the system you are upgrading to that will have more fine detail. Doesn’t that mean bad recordings will sound worse on your new system versus the McIntosh (w c-12000) which helps with bad recordings since it is softer with less detail?

2) Won’t it always be the case that there will be something you will eventually like better and someday you may sell the Solution system for something else?

3) Could it be that McIntosh would be the compromise between fine detail but not to harsh on music with bad recordings? For instance, I like Dinosaur Jr.... it sounds awful on my Luxman because it sounds so harsh. But on McIntosh at the store it sounds less harsh.

@dman777 

You have some valid points. Being an audiophile is a disease, and we are never satisfied. I love the McIntosh products; they are probably the best value/performance in the industry. Yes, there will always be better. I have been in this game for over 30 years and have not heard a component make such an impression. The sounds I heard coming out of the Soulution was a WTF moment. I do believe because of the Soulution's accuracy, bad recordings will sound really bad! I was always one who enjoyed a warm presentation, but maybe my sound preferences are changing. I hope to do more auditioning of that integrated since it was not fully broken in yet. 

One last thought. The weak point of my system is the C2700; some have characterized it as sounding muddy. I would love to hear what the MC611s would sound like being driven by an EMM Labs DV2i!

I vote for monoblocks. I run a 'vintage' system and I run (2) MC2100s as monoblocks, fed from a Dynaco tube preamp. Very nice sound (at least to my ears) that combines a bit of tube 'color' along with 210 wpc of clean Macintosh SS power.

Plus, as a few others have said - if you go with a stereo amplifier (again), you will always be wondering what the monoblocks would have brought to the table.

Don't wonder - find out!

Whether stereo or monoblock, it’s the best amp I could afford first, then monoblocks second.  

@jeffreyw I was going to ask in a private message but I don’t see a way to send a private message on this site.

Doing research on McIntosh, I came across this post by you

https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2558077

I was going to ask... it was only about 2 years ago. You mentioned that you prefer a warm sound at the cost of some detail.
1) Do you feel that your tastes have changed that much since then where now you would take the more detailed at the cost of warmth?
2) How do I know if my tastes won’t change like that later? I ask because it looks like we are on similar paths. I was trying figure out ahead of time to try and save money. But to be honest, I need to listen to a system for a few months to really get to know if I like it at my house which is not feasible in real life.
3) Do you think with the C 12000 preamp there would be enough detail where I would not wish I had a system with more detail? For instance, my current system is Yamaha AS-3200 and Luxman 595 class A that I switch between with when I get tired of the same sound. Both are used on Focal Sopra N1s.

@dman777 

I believe my tastes have changed in regard to how music is presented. In my audiophile journey, I always preferred warmth. I loved tubes, but they have limitations. McIntosh was the closest solid state, sounding like tubes but with tremendous balls. The only other amp I have heard to provide bass similar to the MC 611s was a Gryphon Diablo 300. 

I did have a Luxman 590 AXII, which was a disaster in my system. My current McIntosh system is far superior. 

I believe the C12000 is a great preamp, and my recent audition presented as 'cleaner and more detailed than my C2700' albeit at a $16K cost. However, I did audition the Luxman M10X which sounded glorious. I believe the Luxman presents as the middle-ground between a McIntosh system and Soulution. Still, from what I recall, the Luxman did not provide the magic that the Solution did.

I would spend a lot of time auditioning different components to do it right the first time!

+1 for all of the above who voted for monoblocks. I love mine.

@dman777 'Warmth' and detail do not have to be a tradeoff. 

@mike4597 

Loves me some Odyssey!!

I have owned both. And I cannot rationalize the M462 over 611s if the cost is irrelevant based on performance alone. 

There are other implications including space, logistics of set-up and connectivity that could favor a stereo versus monoblocks. 
 

There are outstanding stereo amplifiers and McIntosh’s product line has many more monoblocks designs at its higher end lines.