Synergistic Red Fuse ...
So got my speaker cables back yesterday and hooked them back up and also dropped in a second Cerious Graphene Extreme digital cable between my Sonos and W4S Remedy. The system is really singing now sounding better than I have ever heard it. The cumulative effect of a number of tweaks, new fuses included, has brought me to a very good place indeed. |
Charles I am using Graphene Extreme digital cables, analog interconnects, and speaker cables, but my power cables are all the previous generation Cerious Nano signatures. They were the very first power cables I truly thought made a difference and now have them on my DAC, preamp, and power conditioner. |
It could be the difference in the amp is due to 120 vs. 240 volt options. Most stereo equipment these days is built for use world-wide so it needs to accommodate both voltages. 120 volts with a 3.2 amp fuse will deliver about the same power as 240 volts at 1.6 amps. The board probably reflects the amperage setting for the country where it was designed or manufactured. |
Wow! Just in case any of my fellow SR Fuse lovers have missed this artist, I present Ms. Barbara Dennerlein: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60ut7yIuCEY |
OK I am going to bite. My Accustic Arts Power 1 integrated amp currently has a HiFi Tuning Gold fuse in it for the main fuse. I will buy the SR Black. If this does anything I will then move to the various internal ones which are 4 x F4L250V. I will report back. I've also been meaning to put some fuses in my Luxman cdp/dac as well. |
tzh21y: I would put a Black fuse in the amp next and then the preamp. tboooe: I believe you are going to like the sound of the Synergistic Research Black fuse. There will be an immediate change but then it will take up to 100 hours of playing time to fully settle in. During this time there may be a sense of the music being constricted but then it will open up and have a wonderful sense of effortless flow. If you like the change in sound I suggest putting a Black fuse in CD player/DAC next. finally replace the other internal fuses. The SR Black fuses come with a 30 day return policy. So take your time listening and enjoy. David Pritchard |
tzh21y ... Glad you like her. How about four times that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdJeCjIwGFk&list=RD60ut7yIuCEY&index=6 |
A little slow on checking the forum these days... but: Charles - PWD Direct-to-amp. I would like to add a Coincident LS, but need the remote version, can only afford to buy used, and have trouble committing to that cost when the DAC already handles all my inputs. I'm not currently buying anything, but vacillate pretty strongly between wanting to spend on the LS, a speaker upgrade to the Total Eclipses, or dealing with my power (probably by buying a regenerator like the PS audio P5 or P10, as my power browns out semi-regularly). Tough to figure out which is the best investment. OP - One of my fuses was used and the other was new. I never checked on hours though. The PWD has two fuses and replacing either with a Red (new or used) always hurt the cause. It's been a while so I don't remember the exact details, but I did run them in for at least three days (the DAC is always on). My comparisons to the stock fuses happened after that. |
"OP - One of my fuses was used and the other was new. I never checked on hours though. The PWD has two fuses and replacing either with a Red (new or used) always hurt the cause. It's been a while so I don't remember the exact details, but I did run them in for at least three days (the DAC is always on). My comparisons to the stock fuses happened after that." Al, now THAT is anecdotal. ;-) |
Hi Cal, As you probably know I am a very happy owner of the Coincident Line Stage and Total Eclipse II speakers. Both are terrific. However if I were you I'd address your AC power deficiency issues first. I've found that high quality AC power is crucial to maximizing the potential of an audio system. No matter how exceptional the components or speakers, they'll be compromised without good quality electrical power. Charles, |
Charles1dad: I second and third what Charles said about AC power. I do hope everyone reading this thread will try a high quality A/C wall outlet. My personal favorites are the Furutech GTX and the Synergistic Research Tesla SE outlets. The SR outlets are fun to try as they have a 30 return policy. I do think upgrading the main power fuses for each piece of equipment and upgrading the wall outlets should be done prior to auditioning various power cords and interconnects. This allows one to hear the maximum benefit of a cable change. Last night it was live music for 100 people at the season ending concert for El Paso Pro Musica. Beethoven piano sonatas x two plus Bach. No written music on the stand. Just straight ahead playing. The artistic director of the series is Zuil Bailey. His Cd 's showcase some of the best in cello playing. The SR Black fuses certainly do allow me to hear the fine details of Mr. Bailey's expressive playing. David Pritchard |
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jafant2,946 posts04-26-2016 2:05pmDoes SR junk-source their production to china? If not, hope so to lower the prices. |
Cal wrote, "geoffkait - Ha. Sorry for not being more rigorous, but I spend that currency at work. And to be fair, there’s precious little science (or even real EE knowledge, Al excepted) being communicated on these forums. Might as well be the anti-vaccine crowd with the way people regularly ---- on blind listening tests while extolling the virtues of their subjective experience." I know there's an Appeal to Authority in there somewhere. geoff kait machina dynamica we do artificial atoms right |
I've been reading this thread since it began and would like thank oregonpapa for starting a very informative and useful topic. It's wonderful that so many enthusiasts are involved and encouraging other members to be open minded concerning fuses. Who would have thought such a "none essential" component could affect sound quality. Most of us have tried different tweaks over the years with little or no changes. Some would call these tweaks "snake oil" but isn't it part our hobby to experiment and get the most out of our systems? I understand some are reluctant to spend over $100 for a fuse but would spend thousands on cables. But as oregonpapa and others have stated numerous times, SR's 30 day return policy is a no brainer! But I'm really amazed what these black fuses have done to my system. The soundstage opened up, I could hear more detail and greater dynamics. Music can be played at a lower volume and it still sounds great. I'm actually writing this while listening to my system and pause occasionally to enjoy the music like I have a new system. I was wondering if anyone tweaked their speaker placement due to these fuses. I reduced the toe-in since the speakers throw a wider soundstage. I spoke to Ted Denney many years ago while considering to upgrade to his Tesla series cables. He stated the cables will allow my then Focal speakers to throw a wider soundstage thus reducing the toe-in and he was correct. I guess the fuses are doing the same. |
ronragsg ... This thread has found a life of its own at almost 70,000 views. Who knew? Interesting idea of reducing the toe-in of the speakers. I think I may try your suggestion this weekend. Its kind of a hassle for me as I have Mapleshade platforms spiked through the carpet and then the speakers spiked to the platforms. It wouldn't normally be a problem, but the speakers weigh 145 pounds apiece. You didn't mention what cables you're currently using, but some members are getting really good results from SR's new Black power cords. There's a thread on the subject in the cable forum. Hang in there ... |
ronrags: Thank you for the reminder to experiment with speaker toe- in after putting in better performing fuses such as the Synergistic Research Black fuses. Also experiment with small changes in the position of the footers under the equipment. The speaker and footer changes can sometimes really improve the system's sound. Even after a "small" change like a fuse. David Pritchard |
oregonpapa: I'm currently using SR Tesla Accelerator interconnects and speaker cables. For power cables I'm using SR Copper Element for my tube integrated amp and PS Audio cables for my DAC, music server and universal player. I plan to purchase the Black cables since the Black fuses are now broken-in. |
^^^ ronrags ... Nice! SR has some really innovative new products. I'm looking forward to the upcoming Newport show where I hope to meet several Agon members in person. Anyone besides Bob and David going? If so, we could set a specific time to meet in the SR room sometime on Saturday afternoon. It would be interesting to observe SR's entire presentation. OP |
"actually think it makes a lot of sense that the fuse is important as it is. The best way would be no fuse at all but can’t do that. So considering all power comes through that fuse, before i spend 1000 dollars on a power cord, I should probably take a look at the power fuse.." Not to be repetitive but some reasons why the fuse is actually critical include but are not limited to it’s exposed to RFI, it’s exposed to vibration, it’s exposed to magnetic fields, it’s a conductor, thus purer and/or better metal conductors and end caps are audible. For starters I would specify 5 nines silver or 7 nines copper for the fuse wire, end caps and the fuse holder. It's not rocket science, folks. |
Not to be repetitive but some reasons why the fuse is actually critical include but are not limited to it’s exposed to RFI, it’s exposed to vibration, it’s exposed to magnetic fields, it’s a conductor, thus purer and/or better metal conductors and end caps are audible. For starters I would specify 5 nines silver or 7 nines copper for the fuse wire, end caps and the fuse holder. It's not rocket science, folks.Bingo. From my own personal experience, it took a couple of days for the new fuses to break in while playing 24/7, just like any new cable or component. Now before anyone counters with how can something so small need to be broken in, think about all the discussion about capacitors, connectors, cables and the like needing some time to break in. This is generally agreed upon. The act of removing and inserting terminations which removes motes of oxidation has been made to discount just what actually is responsible, as has extremely small matters as turn on and warm up time needing to be exactly the same, time of day, weather conditions, seating position, frame of mind, etc and yet some other thing as small as a fuse is to be discounted? Gentlemen, you are arguing against yourselves. All the best, Nonoise |
I suspect there are many others out there either sitting on the fence or waiting to be convinced who would appreciate a balanced discussion. But nothing wrong with a good old fashioned rah rah thread either if that’s what one is looking for. Hey Fox News and CNN each get to put their own spin on things uninhibited for teh most part and draw good ratings so why not fuse threads. |
Hello Mapman, I think you miss my point. It isn't a case of rah rah (not sure why you'd characterize it this way). I definitely have no issue with open discussion and have said so several times. After awhile redundancy sets in. That's why the alternative thread concerning the fuses is an effective outlet for those such as you. You have plenty of company there and that's good as far as I am concerned. Many people here have reported sucessful and very gratifying outcomes and certainly that includes my experience with the SR Black fuses. We all understand and appreciate your impression and commentary but why the need to repeatedly state it on this particular thread? We clearly get your point. So IMO the availability of the two opposing fuse threads each address the different perspectives. I don't post repeatedly on the other thread extolling the benefits of the Black fuses, what would be the point in doing so? Minds are made up over there regarding their virtues and that's fine with me. I see no need for endless squabbling and the inevitable name calling. Two separate but interesting threads is the better route. Charles, |
mapman said: "I suspect there are many others out there either sitting on the fence or waiting to be convinced who would appreciate a balanced discussion." I agree with you mapman. I have all my components in place and am now looking at the various add-ons like cables, interconnects, etc., and would look forward to the more balanced discussion as well. Maybe we could start an independent third party thread for those who are open to either possibility. |
Abnerjack, If you've been following this thread you must be aware that this forum has been open to all viewpoints. Granted the vast majority of posts here are very positive but that's due to the users satisfying results. There's has been no arm twisting for conformity. Almarg, Mapman and others have freely expressed their opinions here without being attacked. The proposition for these fuses is really simple if someone is interested. Buy them with the knowledge they can be returned if you are underwhelmed by their contributions. |
I really like a balanced discussions, but when certain posters (not you mapman) start insulting members by suggesting that there's something nefarious going on with the tons of positive reviews, its time to call their BS out. I won't stand for being called a "shill," or anything else that might be crooked. Everything positive I've said about the SR fuses is nothing but the truth. I've heard the positive results in my system, other folk's systems and my friends have heard the results in my system as well. Rah-Rah on lads, Rah-Rah on ... :-) |
I am open to either possibility. In fact its on record several times in this thread alone I believe where I’ve said I have no doubt a fuse CAN make a difference. Its the rah rah mentality and attempts to silence dissenters that I disapprove of. Especially since the most trusted technical people on this site are at a loss to explain what people hear. That does not discount what people hear. It just means that the book is still open in terms of understanding things. Directionality is another issue. So rah rah is fine by those who have realized value but it is clearly not a lock that others will. Especially if a long burn in is truly required and return period is 30 days. That’s a losing combination for sure that many could face. i think it was a skeptic who pointed that out earlier. Shunning dissenters is a sure way to skew the results that others might look to for guidance. |
tzh21y: Excellent initial description of a Synergistic Research Black fuse sonic change. The fuse needs about 100 to 200 hours to fully settle in. However in My Marantz I heard positive trends at 24 hours of playing time. Then a gradual more relaxed and open sound. I was very happy at the end of two weeks. We are fortunate that the Marantz SA11-S2 SACD player has a replaceable power fuse. The SA11-S1 has a non replaceable fuse. Congratulations on getting the player's lid off - it is a challenge to remove. David Pritchard |
Mapman, In my experience I'd recommend a range of 70-100 hours for sufficient burn in time to judge their worth. With the exception of a tube power amplifier just about everything else can be left on 24/7 so that range can achieved in only 3 or 4 days. I guess I don't understand why something so simple is being made complicated. Audition the fuses with adequate burn in and then you make a decision. Keep them or return them. As this thread has demonstrated most users have found that the fuses were indeed an asset to their audio systems. A few had alternative results as would be expected with any product. It's wonderful to find a reasonably priced audio tweak that's generated such an overwhelming % of happy listeners and shared on audiogon. Charles, |
It is worth noting that leaving tube gear in general on has a downside compared to SS. Although some SS amps do consume considerable power when idle. The class d amps I use do not so I leave them on however the manual also has warnings to users about replacing fuses voiding warranties and such. These things do matter and are worth pointing out don't you think? |
All of my amplifiers are tube amps. I found the "downside" that mapman stated was surpassed with "upside benefits" when each tube amplifier had 150 hours of on time with a Synergistic Research Black fuse in place. Yes the sonic improvement was worth putting 150 hours on the KR PX-25 tubes , the Elrog 845 tubes, and the now unobtainium Valvo 6SL7gt Hamburg 1959 tube! tzh21z Listen closely to your system at 6:00 pm this Sunday. I believe you will have a most enjoyable listening session. To all reading this. If you wonder is there any possible way I can enhance the enjoyment of listening to the music I love- audition a Synergistic Research Black fuse. If you know there is no possible way to improve the listening enjoyment of your music- turn off the computer and turn on the music! Tonight Mozart chamber music. This past Monday, Beethoven piano sonatas live in a room that holds a maximum of 100 people. I would say a pretty good reference point. David Pritchard |
This was included in last night's listening session. If you like soulful Mexican music, and if you have a turntable, get this. Its magic: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Noche-Los-Tres-12-Vinyl-LP-/131779146640?hash=item1eaea63390:g:oncAAOSw3xJVe... Okay not ... who's going to be the first one to try the new SR Black wall outlet? I vote for lak. :-) |
