I installed a SR RED Quantum fuse in my ARC REF-3 preamp a few days ago, replacing an older high end fuse. Uhh ... for a hundred bucks, this little baby is well worth the cost. There was an immediate improvement upon installation, but now that its broken in (yes, no kidding), its quite remarkable. A tightening of the focus, a more solid image, and most important of all for my tastes, a deeper appreciation for the organic sound of the instruments. Damn! ... cellos sound great! Much improved attack on pianos. More humanistic on vocals. Bowed bass goes down forever. Next move? .... I'm doing the entire system with these fuses. One at a time though just to gauge the improvement in each piece of equipment. The REF-75se comes next. I'll report the results as the progression takes place. Stay tuned ...
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
My ARC Ref250 uses a 7A Slo-Blo and been using SR RED 6.3A without any issues. According to owners manual, each mono can draw up to 10A instantaneously so I don't recommend using a fast flow.
I have a full loom of SR BLACKs waiting in the bullpen. After pre is broken in when returns from VAC on SE upgrade, will replace all SR REDs in one shot. It should be interesting.
From my experience, ARC benefits most from fuse rolling so I encourage ARC owners to experiment.
I haven't tried the WA chips on the SR Black fuses. I only tried them on the SR Red fuses. According to SR, the Black fuses have a coating on the exterior of the fuse and if the WA chips are used on them they will degrade the sound of the fuses.
Red quantum fuse just arrived. Nice looking fuse, nicely packaged in original box. Seems to have some weight to it compared to most fuses as I remember. Thanks!
I will take it home with me today and see what happens. Might get to try it out tonight in my Audio Research sp16 pre-amp if all goes well.
Oh by the way- for those of you really want to take the fuses to the next level- if you are using them in a barrel type connector with a spring loaded mechanism, you will notice that there is play inside the connector. Wrap the fuse in Teflon plumbers tape to make it snug (not too snug to keep the spring from compressing). Don't cover the black dot on the black fuse. Reinsert and behold even greater clarity and focus. This tweak works on any fuse. Try it and report back. You should like what you hear!!! IEC's respond well too to this. Minimizing vibrations goes a long way.
Hmm, Ok issue # 1 for me with this fuse may be a show stopper in that it appears to not match my ARC pre-amp fuse specs.
ARC sp 16 manual indicates it takes a 3A, 230V slo blow fuse.
Syn. Red fuse is T 3.15A, 500V.
T indicates slo blow I believe (check), 3.15 A is close enough, but 500V rating means this fuse will take slightly more than twice as many amps/power to blow as it should with properly rated 230V equivalent fuse.
Unless I'm missing something I cannot put this into my ARC sp16 without risking damage.
Are you saying the 500V rating is safe even though it is twice what the vendor specifies because such an event /surge can never happen?
Also I’m wondering if the 500V rating alone compared to most fuses rated for US standard voltage at 120 volts might alone account for some sound difference in some cases. I don’t see many other commonly used fuses rated for 500 volts when countries in fact go no more than 230 volts or so. What would be the rational for a 500V rating in this case?
Here is a list of voltage standards per country I found. Nothing near 500 V.
Are you saying the 500V rating is safe even though it is twice what the vendor specifies because such an event /surge can never happen?
Hi Mapman,
Yes, I’m saying that the 500V rating is safe. As you will realize, a fuse does not protect against voltage surges, per se. It protects against excessive current flow. And as I explained in my post earlier today, the voltage rating defines how much voltage the fuse is rated to be able to withstand when it blows. And the only time a fuse will "see" the actual line voltage, or any other significant voltage, is if and when it blows.
If the line voltage exceeds the fuse’s voltage rating, the fuse may not be able to maintain an "open" state when it blows, and current may therefore be able to flow through it. Or, conceivably, it may explode.
So as I indicated in the earlier post, the higher that rating is the better, provided that everything else is equal. Because a higher voltage rating means more margin relative to a given line voltage, which would be in the direction of being beneficial if it makes any difference at all.
You can bet that there are those of us who are waiting with baited breath for your assessment of the fuse. I had it in my REF-3 with really good results over the HiFi Tuning fuse that preceded it. Keep in mind that the SR Black fuse blows (no pun intended) what I sent you away. :-)
I won’t even ask if anyone knows why the black sounds better than the red or how to decide reliably between the two. :^) Are the blacks also rated to 500V?
Yes, good thing Al is out there. I suspected that the higher voltage rating was OK but needed to do some research to confirm. I read a few misinformed blog threads on other sites that gave me pause. Never encountered a fuse rated 500V before for anything having to do with audio. So chalk one up for Synergistic research there regardless of the outcome.
See specs and facts DO matter and usually only help.
Please don't take this the wrong way --- no offense is intended. I just find personality types to be very interesting ...and understanding each personality type and the combination of personality types is crucial to my success in business. After all, I am in the people business.
As a person who has earned his living as a 100% commissioned salesman for over 50 years, I've always found the personality type of the engineer, and others of that mindset, to be interesting to say the least. The analysis paralysis syndrome suffered by most of engineering mentality must be hell.
Not dissing engineers here at all. Those who measure 100 times before cutting once are the folks who keep our water running clean, the electro-power plants running ... and airplanes from crashing.
Mapman ... Just stick the new fuse into the fuse holder and enjoy the damned thing already. *lol*
"The analysis paralysis syndrome suffered by most of engineering mentality must be hell. "
Good engineers in industry learn to always be on the lookout for analysis paralysis and deal with it effectively as needed to accomplish the task at hand.
Just part of the job. Not hell at all for those who fit the mold.
My wife is the opposite. My engineering mentality for lack of a better term is likely hell for her from time to time but she knows it usually pays off when properly and reasonably applied. She knows for example in the end it pays our bills nicely :^)
"Just because" is not a reason most good engineers will easily default to though.
Heading home soon. I'm planning to get to it later this evening. Stay tuned.....
I'm come from the (also lucrative) creative, why not outside the box? and why does it have to be a box anyway? side of business world. So I'm really going to just be a fly on the wall and enjoy this one...
I love what I do. In order to do it successfully, one needs the personality traits of a salesman. Compared to engineers ... we are totally nutz!! And you are absolutely correct in that its hell for the wife of an engineer at times .. BUT, every person with an engineering mindset that I've done business with has provided very well for their retirement future and that of their spouses as well through meticulous planning. Salesmen? .... "Hey ... we'll cross that bridge when we get to it." *lol*
I sincerely hope the new fuse works out for you mapman.
Ok ok My fellow Agoners have convinced me to try the SR Blacks in my Ref 40 and Ref 150. Thanks for the push. Thanks I will order a 6.3A sloblo for the pre and a 8.0A sloblo for the 7. (Thanks Almarg) They are 6.3 x 32mm in size.
Ozzy: For me the Black fuse in the QOL unit sounded best inserted with the "S" towards the rear of the unit and the printed "R" towards the front of the unit. Not as big of a change as other locations in most ways, but important in ways difficult to describe but easy to experience.
Remember there is a breakin.Big Time. I leave the QOL unit on 24/7. It takes a week to stabilize.
I posted yesterday eve and it was apparently deleted within the hour.
I spent a fair amount of time last night carefully comparing and writing the results just to have it deleted.
The fuse was fine but I can't say I heard any clear difference either way.
After a deleted post sharing honest results. I'm not very inclined to invest more time with this at this point. Makes me wonder what's going on with censorship of these forums.
OK, my original post was found on another thread. I'll put it back here where it belongs.
Thanks once again to Al once again for locating my missing post. Not sure how it landed there. its possible I updated the wrong Synergistic Thread. I was in a bit of a rush yesterday eve.
I spent about an hour swapping fuses in the arc sp16 and comparing. Also changing fuse direction. I left the quantum sticker thingy off.
So look, the red fuse sounded good. So did the stock fuse that came in the arc sp16 new. If there was a difference it did not jump out at me. Both sounded similarly good with great dynamics big soundstage excellent detail and the whole nine yards. I cannot really attribute anything unique to the red fuse so far.
I listened to 3 very good quality recordings, all lossless flac files ripped to my music server using dbpoweramp: The Mariners Revenge Song by The Decemberists, The William Walton Crown Imperial Coronation March on Mercury Living Presence,. And The Grand Duel by Luis Bacalov from the Kill Bill Pt 1 soundtrack.
System used was Squeezebox Touch to mhdt Constantine DAC to ARC sp16 pre-amp to BelCanto Ref1000m amps to Dynaudio Contour 1.3 mkII speakers. IC from DAC to pre and pre to amp both DNM Reson. Audioquest CV-6 speaker cables to Dynaudios.
So even though I am not hearing a difference so far that's two scores now for Synergistic Research in any case 1) 500V rating would appear to denote an unusually rugged and durable product and 2) good customer service.
Its to be expected that some will hear differences and some not with many more esoteric products.
So given all that I would say the Red fuses are a sound product possibly worth the investment for some but probably not all. That's not so bad, is it?
Myself, I would probably only buy a fuse from an audio specialty company for a premium only if I hear a clear difference I like. Otherwise, were I to need a fuse, I would probably go with a quality product for much lower cost from a commercial electronics supply house, just like I often end up going to products from companies that deal with pro audio rather than home/high end for effective tweaks at reasonable cost.
To circle back with listening impressions on the Blacks in my DAC/pre: I returned to stock fuses for a few days to re-set my ears and expectations, then last night re-installed the Blacks (in this case with the R side of the fuse meeting incoming current.)
Compared to stock, bass was indeed fuller. Tone density was thicker, but ultimately I do think it came at the cost of detail resolution. With stocks my soundstage was pristine and slightly concave, as in it invited me to listen in. With the Blacks, the stage was wider, and pushed in a convex fashion toward me. But there was less depth, and indeed though I felt closer in space to the instruments in the soundstage, I perceived a little less definition and detail.
I’ll flip direction once more before making a final judgment on these guys. And I’ll repeat that this is all in good fun, and I question none of the great results that so many people are hearing. Just callin’ ’em like I hear ’em.
Also I will comment that I think I heard similar aspects to the sound that you originally identified when you started the thread in that I was trying to listen for taht and other things as well. At times I thought it might be somewhat associated uniquely with the red fuse, other times not. At the end of my session I was not sure I could identify a consistent advantage for either fuse.. So the contest was a wash for me in the end.
When done, I left my original fuse in in that it came with the unit and I could not identify a reason to change. The ARC sp16 has easy rear panel access for changing fuses, which helped greatly. I probably changed fuses up to a dozen times for comparison while listening. Other units may involve more work, removing covers, panels etc. If that were the case, and I had actually purchased the red fuse rather than using a free loaner to eval, I think I would have been more inclined to just leave the red fuse in and move on.
One thing interesting to me at this point is I can’t say conclusively that both fuses sounded the same. I definitely think I heard different things at different times, not unlike what Cymbop indicated, sometimes with the same fuse, but the differences were subtle and could easily have just been due to what I was specifically listening for at any particular time. So I definitely did not hear anything that indicated to me that the two fuses always sounded exactly the same. The differences were just very subtle and hard to attribute alone to just one fuse or the other. Just enough to cast some doubt. I started a thread recently asking people to rate the magnitude of various tweaks they’ve tried. For me the magnitude of this one was very low compared to some others I have used for similar cost where the differences were apparent immediately and consistently from there..
We both use ARC gear and yet we've gotten two different results. Could it be that the fuse I sent you was out of the system for weeks before I sent it ... and perhaps it needs to "settle in" further??
The difference for me was huge right from the first fuse that went into the REF-3. So much so that it prompted me to start this entire thread.
I ended up re-fusing the entire system with the SR Red fuses and the result was a very significant overall improvement in every way. Then, as I convert each piece of equipment over to the SR Black fuses, each fuse blew away the previous Red fuse. Go figure.
Why not leave the fuse in place for awhile. Maybe it needs to be re-broken in???
I’m thinking towards the weekend when I typically have more time to listen I will pop it back in and give it a more extended listen, probably using my much larger OHMs where I spend most of my preferred listening time, then maybe compare again.
I guess its the mystery of a lot of high end audio that helps keep things interesting. How often does everyone ever arrive at a consensus with anything when it comes to this stuff.
I'm happy that you've gotten your problem resolved. With that said, I'd like to address your last post.
1. "
The odds that a $10,000 amp is flaky (one of your statements) are pretty low but it’s a base I covered."
If you reread my post, I did not refer to your amp as being "flaky." I used the term "noncompliant."
2. I didn't "lecture" you about anything. My response wasn't directed to you at all. It was in response to another poster who accused me of being associated with SR.
3. Reread the post you alluded to. You will find that I never called you a troll.
4. Its true that I didn't think this was the proper place/thread to file a complaint about a supplier. I felt the proper action was to complain to SR directly. I did that for you via SR's Facebook page. The result was an offer from SR to make your fuse dilemma right for you. I reported that back here so that you could take the proper action. Evidently it worked out for you. Perhaps doing you a favor somehow offended you??
5. Please point out where I have "condemned" and/or "undermined your integrity."
6. I am 77 years old. I started selling when I was 8 years old. But then I don't doubt for one second that I am "no more experienced in the business world than you" *lol*
Look, my intent in this post isn't to start a pissing contest with you. This is all about fun for me. I love the audio hobby. I love the end result, and that is to get us closer to the live event. But with that said, you have completely blown what I said way out of proportion and taken offense where none was intended. What do I do now ... just say "I'm sorry" for going to bat for you with SR? You tell me.
The good thing about this thread is that all responses have been welcome. This includes those who have had neutral or a negative outcome with the SR fuses. Overall this group has been very small yet their voices are heard just as they should be. Everyone who has used these fuses and posted their impressions has called it as they heard it. What more can we ask for?
I have no explanation as to why a few listeners had less success and improved sound quality than the vast majority of posters here. I do obviously accept their contrary results, that's how it goes with "any" audio product. . All we can offer is our honest listening experiences with these SR fuses. I have gotten significant sonic and musical improvement with these wonderful Black fuses and am very grateful for them. Charles,
Let's just agree to attempt to get the most out of our audio systems by helping each other, along with the other members here, to get closer to that which we love ... music reproduced in our home that is as close to the live performance as we can ... depending upon the depths of our pockets of course, and our willingness to remain open minded to various tweaks, lotions, Voodoo and other weird stuff.
Looking forward to your assessments of the topic at hand ... the SR fuses.
At the suggestion of a few here I called SR and they were - as predicted - helpful and willing to work with the distributor on my behalf. Replacement fuses have been sent. SR lived up to their reputation.
Thanks to SR for helping to make this right. Their unhesitatingly friendly, supportive attitude and customer-focused service were on point. And I get that given the nature of the product/situation, although I believe it was the right thing to do, their response wasn’t something to take for granted.
Have the last few fuses needed for my system on order, and will post thoughts once fully installed. Given my experience with other SR products and previous experience upgrading fuses in another Ayre amp, I expect good things.
One thing I wonder is how many people actually take the time to a/b the sound with 2 fuses repeatedly. That is what I tasked myself to do. Gotta admit I feel pretty silly now having spent time doing it and not hearing much of consequence. If I had bought the fuse instead of just testing a loaner for free, I would probably pop it in and just leave it there no matter what since I made the investment and the thing seems to sound fine. Once I did that, as time passed, it would become even harder to clearly associate any changes I hear to just the fuse. Heck I change nothing for months sometimes and things never sound exactly the same to me. Is it me? the system? The fuse? The humidity and barometric pressure? Who knows. As long as it sounds good in general day in and day out, and it makes me want to listen more, I am happy and will not sweat those details.
Al, I have a question, if I may---you recently suggested a fuse experiment whereby a garden-variety fuse could be temporarily replaced with the same fuse, but with a much higher amperage value so as to reduce resistance as the variable in sound quality. Can you explain just what is used in fuses to create the different amperage ratings that then influence failure at the indicated rating? From pictures, I have always thought that the filament sizes/widths are increased to achieve the higher ratings in otherwise same-type fuses, and this would to my thinking also indicate a reduction in resistance or, as you stated, more of a straight wire approach. I ask because I have pushed all of the amperage ratings in my boutique fuses, especially in my Maggie 3.6Rs, in an attempt to move toward a straight wire without having to tear the fuse bank out as some Maggie users do, i.e. the stock ratings for the Maggie tweeter and midrange are 2.5A and 5A, whereas I am using 8A and 16A fuses. This nullifies any protective function of the fuses, but I have not had any problems so far because I am careful with volumes and believe I have a stable power supply. Am I reducing resistance in the final signal path by inserting higher ratings/larger filaments? Thanks for your evaluation, and are you thinking of accepting the SR fuse challenge in one of your own components?
One rather mundane thing I just thought off with the red fuse. Every fuse I have ever used is glass. When the fuse is suspected of blowing, you easily examine the filament inside through the glass for a gap to confirm the fuse is gone and replace.
Can't see inside the red fuse. If no sound in device, you either have to take a meter to the fuse and measure resistance or just have a known good backup available to swap in and try. But you can't tell if the red fuse is good or not by just examining it.
I know that's not very exciting compared to sound of fuses but still worth noting. Always a good idea to keep a spare good fuse or two around. You might suffer with a normal fuse for a short time for that then order and replace that with a new red or black fuse eventually.
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