Synergistic Red Fuse ...

Thanks, Nonoise!

Best regards,
-- Al
 

Al, you have the most gentlemanly way of refuting. It's not absolute and not insulting: a trait we call can benefit by.

All the best,
Nonoise

Nonoise 3-25-2017
I posted ’auxinput’s’ contribution from another thread earlier about how the signal is about 98% A/C voltage and no one has shot that down yet. Glossed over maybe, but not disputed.

Taking that into consideration (at the very least), doesn’t it leave open the ’weak link’ aspect of the fuse?

The salient paragraph of Auxinput’s post, which you quoted in this thread on 3-9-2017, was:

In a power amp circuit, the output transistors have to create massive gain (turning a 1V input into something like 15-100 watts or more). It has to use the A/C power coming in to create this voltage, so your signal is actually something like 98% A/C voltage.

Obviously just about all of the power that is put out by an amplifier (or any other AC-powered component) is **derived** from the AC power that is provided to the component. However, saying that does not provide any kind of meaningful explanation as to how an AC mains fuse may exert an audibly significant effect on the output signal of the component, given all of the intervening circuitry that is present, that is (or at least should be) designed to minimize the sensitivity of that output signal to differences in the incoming AC. And it certainly does not provide such an explanation that would stand up when analyzed quantitatively, or that can even be analyzed quantitatively. Or (as I’ve said in earlier posts) that would explain the high degree of consistency of the reported benefits, among components that are completely different in design, that perform completely different functions, that are used in very different systems, and that are powered by AC having very different voltage and noise characteristics.

Simply asserting that a fuse may be a weak link in some way is not an explanation that would be viewed as meaningful by the court of electrical engineering. Which is not to say that a ruling by that court is definitive. It is to say, however, that the proffered explanation is not definitive either, or even meaningful.

Best regards,
-- Al

I posted 'auxinput's' contribution from another thread earlier about how the signal is about 98% A/C voltage and no one has shot that down yet. Glossed over maybe, but not disputed. 

Taking that into consideration (at the very least), doesn't it leave open the 'weak link' aspect of the fuse? Just to consider it doesn't mean you've fallen prey to some devious aspect of marketing. Granted, there's a lot of hype that's right up there with the Amazing Randy but THAT'S the marketing side of things. I can see where everyone's BS meters go off when they read the 'science' behind it but that's a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. 

Like teo_audio points out: a solid copper bar will ruin you forever once you've heard what it can do and have to put that fuse back in. That tells me that a better made fuse should improve the sound. I could care less about the theories behind the marketing claims. I just know better made fuses work because I've heard them for myself. And  yes, they shouldn't cost as much as they do. I can see an argument for that, and I'd support it, but not the efficacy of better made fuses.

All the best,
Nonoise

Now all you cheap skeptics ain’t got no excuse. Deluxe Create Audio Nano fuses direct from China $9 each. Select your own rating. eBay to the rescue! Packet delivery from China $2. Cannot beat with stick. Tell all your friends. At that price even Wolfman will be able to hear them. Well, let’s not push it.

sidebar to Wolfie: it figures that the term sweeter treble is not in your vocabulary. What do they teach you at audio engineer school, anyway?

More noble sound? What the heck is that? Sweeter treble? Lower and more saturated bass? Unlikely, or more to the point, likely having zero to do with the fuse, but if these things did occur I want to know WHY the fuse made this possible. I'm reminding my fellow posters to consider the fact that a fuse is NOT an "active" component…it's a fuse…allowing electrons to pass to and fro until it melts due to an otherwise unforeseen emergency. Asking this "why" question is bullying only to the extremely insecure or those who've invested themselves emotionally (and financially) in this nonsense, and again, there's nothing negative involved is posing the question. Incidently, this STILL remains unanswered, which should be at least of some interest to anyone considering buying any expensive but relatively suspicious tweak. I hope this gentle and considerate post doesn't push anybody into emotional overload.

A retail dealer informed me that VAC audio only uses high quality ceramic fuses and does not recommend ordinary glass Bussman or Littlefuses.  Sure it's not black SR fuses, but VAC wants to make a profit and finds better quality, lower cost ceramic fuses are minimally adequate to protect their gear and sound good.  VAC amps are high end in build quality and sound quality.

Stock fuse in my VAC SigMKIIa SE is glass.  I've spoken to Kevin rolling fuses, he encourages me to experiment and report my results to him.

I think they would be worth a try if for no other reason, a comparison to the SR Black. 
;-) 

Excerpt from 6 Moons review of the Deluxe version of the Create Audio fuse.

"I’d never previously accorded much weight to tweakers who celebrated after-market fuses because these parts with their two contacts and 15mm of wire seemed too small to warrant anything much audible. I was wrong. But it is important to put changes into perspective. These aren’t fundamental changes as when we swap a component or cabling. Their effect operates on a more subtle level as a finishing touch to our general perception and becomes appreciable during longer listening sessions easiest when we return to the original fuses. With the LAR the sound became nobler. The treble grew sweeter to eliminate any of my subliminal suspicions. Most surprising was the bass. It extended lower with more saturation. These weren’t big changes but in terms of quality (rather than quantity) truly surprising. The bass on the Laurie Anderson disc didn’t gain in weight but had better timbre and more articulated dynamics.

I thought all this was attributable to improved resolution. These changes were not heard on their own but because everything became better organized and the connective tissue between individual sounds was strengthened. It wasn’t bad before but with the Create Audio fuses separate sonic islands were connected into one cohesive archipelago."

If it weren’t for backsliders, mossbacks, anti-audiophiles, tweakaphobes and those with learning disorders and/or reading comprehension issues this thread would almost certainly have ended long ago. But getting back to the topic just for a sec, has anyone tried the aftermarket fuse from Parts Connection? It’s got a ceramic body fuse with nano material wire and gold and rhodium plated end caps. Mmmmmmm. And It’s only $19.95. Hel-loo! 

http://www.partsconnexion.com/fuse_create_dlux_sml.html

Warning, Off topic alert,
For those following the NCAA basketball tournament North Carolina is looking very dominant.  They'll play the UCLA/Kentucky winner, this could be potentially one excellent match up. OK back to the fuses. 
Charles 

Got it George,   I hadn't considered that possibility before 😊
Charles 

We get it already
foolish and delusional folks who appreciate overpriced silly fuses.

And future "gullible" purchasers, deserve to hear both side of the fence, not just the voodoo side, every time they are bought up to be the saviour of good audio sound.

And if some here want to turn this "fuse thread" into a "music review thread" can I suggest the "Music Thread" instead of just bumping this one for the hope of more potential fuse sales.

https://forum.audiogon.com/topics/music

Cheers George

Frank,
The jazz Christmas music recording is exceptionally good, every track is beautiful music.  Here’s my question,  track #16, is that Dexter Gordon? The tenor saxophone texture, tone and emotion has Dexter's  signature written all over it.  Just very curious. 
Charles 

Hi Jond and nonoise,
Actually I share the sentiment you both have expressed.  Overwhelming the music loving upgrade fuse users here are a happy and content group. It's honestly a very small number of people who seem to relish the role spoiling the open and quite friendly tone of this thread. Thus jmcgroganmc'-s post earlier today regarding choice A or choice B.

Okay, we're just gullible,  foolish and delusional folks who appreciate   overpriced silly fuses.  We get it already,  but we're very happy with our plight 😀😀
Charles 

The point is to accentuate the positive, not to keep harping.
C'mon folks!
How apropos that in an audio thread, there's a skipping record.

All the best,
Nonoise

So why don't we find some music that makes us happy, put it on, and if its your thing pour yourself a drink or light one up.

 Yeah, and put your fuse in the other way around, and have an epiphany, aided by the above.

Cheers George

@jond - straight up. We're all seeming to be a bit more sensitive these days

I think everyone needs to perhaps take a deep breath and relax. abnerjack I agree with Charles Frank is a super nice helpful generous friendly guy who used a  poor choice of words. It happens. Snowflake in fact was a somewhat poor choice of words. So why don't we find some music that makes us happy, put it on, and if its your thing pour yourself a drink or light one up. Enjoy the music cause isn't that why we're here?

Did this thread take a wrong turn?

A retail dealer informed me that VAC audio only uses high quality ceramic fuses and does not recommend ordinary glass Bussman or Littlefuses.  Sure it's not black SR fuses, but VAC wants to make a profit and finds better quality, lower cost ceramic fuses are minimally adequate to protect their gear and sound good.  VAC amps are high end in build quality and sound quality.  

Abnerjack,
Just an example, I received a package from Frank recently containing 9 CDs. He took the time to record these from his fabulous vinyl record collection. This is the 2nd time he’s done this for me. Did he have to do this? Of course not, he did it because he’s a good person who knew that I would sincerely appreciate it, and I do. The music is beautiful and a joy to listen to. This goes far beyond a discussion concerning fuses. Either one likes them or they do not,  end of story.
Charles

Hi Abner jack,
Thank you for your kind comments.  You have a  point "if'" you were to only focus on that single post from Frank.  If you consider Frank's total body of posts in the context of this enormous thread I'd say absolutely not.  He's no snowflake by any definition.  Actually he's graciously taken a fair amount of verbal insults from wolf who has been strikingly personal in posts aimed at Frank.  

This is both unnecessary and IMO  childish.  Criticize the fuses to your heart is thoroughly content,  that's fine.  Frank has done not a single thing to warrant this. Abnerjack I don’t know how much of this thread you've followed but Frank has been nothing but generous, welcoming and very informative and has happily opened this thread to the joy of sharing the love of listening to music. There are many grateful music lovers on this thread who appreciate it and you can begin this long list with me.
Charles  

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but WORDS in Open Forum will never hurt me!

oregonpapa is right, there is big difference between expressing disagreement and being a bully. I don’t think any of us are traumatized by anything said here; we face much worse in our real lives. That doesn’t mean bullying shouldn’t be called out for what it is, though.

charles1dad,

You said:

"Hi Abner jack,
I don’t see the college campus intolerance analogy here."

charles1dad,

You seem to always post very well-balanced and even-handed thoughts here. Wouldn't you agree that when the conversation turns to claims of bullying and emotional abuse, and alcoholic-like acts of non-self awareness, someone is crying out for a safe place, much like the snowflakes are doing on campus.  

shadorne ...

Of course its over the top. Intentionally so. Call it poetic licence if you will.

Could it be that this " inadequate gear" you refer to is actually superior in refinement to gear where one cannot hear improvements brought about by certain tweaks?  There's a lot of very expensive, positively reviewed and well thought of gear being transformed in this thread because of the fuses and other tweaks mentioned here. 

Frank

"For myself I can only be saddened that some people put up with such poorly maintained or designed equipment that they have resorted to flipping fuses and even worse - a different fuse actually sounds different on their inadequate gear !"

That's right, Audio Research is well known for making poorly designed, inadequate gear 🙄

Add Wolf + Jitter, whadya get? One wit. I was a math major.

🤓

@oregonpapa   

Quote 

"
In addition, for your consideration, I would like to add category "C."

C) These are the ones who carry negative feelings throughout their entire narrow darkened little lives toward anyone who is more successful, more intelligent or better looking than they are.

There is a high probability of domestic violence perpetrated by them upon family members and/or friends either verbally, physically, or both somewhere in their history.  

Frank
"

I think that is a bit OTT. It is even worse than saying "if you can't see the emperors beautiful new raiment then you must be stupid."

For myself I can only be saddened that some people put up with such poorly maintained or designed equipment that they have resorted to flipping fuses and even worse - a different fuse actually sounds different on their inadequate gear ! All this when a fuse is not even remotely in the signal path!! So sad that boutique gear can be that unreliable. I admit to having a preamp that was improved by a mains conditioner but from that day on I was looking to replace this inadequate preamp. A power supply is inadequate if it cannot filter out noise from the mains and tragically lacking if it is sensitive to a mere fuse.

Wofie-Garcia sez:

" Oregonpapa…are you implying that people disagreeing with what they feel are ridiculous claims by audio mythologists are likely to be involved in domestic violence?"

Not at all, Wofie.  Disagree all you want. 

What I'm saying is, the constant referring to those here in this thread (the vast majority) who find that their after market fuses have afforded a significant improvement in their audio systems as "fools," "shills," and other such derogatory terms is nothing more than a form of verbal abuse and violence, unrecognized as such by the person doing the violence.

Its not unlike the alcoholic, deep into his/her disease, being unable to recognize the hurt and damage his/her domestic violence causes the family structure. They don't identify it with violence at all. After all ... they are just a happy drunk who blacks out and can't remember a thing about the family they just killed, the house they burned down, or the Thanksgiving turkey with all the trimmings they threw through the living room window. 

If one's verbal violence is on display here with such abandon in a public forum, what must it be like at home or with people at work? My consensus is ... a bully is a bully is a bully is a bully. Get it? 

Check your intentions, buddy. 

Frank

You meet all kinds in this line of work. - Private Investigation, Dire Straits


😛

"I find amateur psychological analysis a welcome breath of fresh air."
Do tell....

Also, some things, stated as fact in the public arena, are way overblown.
The whole college campus brouhaha is just one example. How many times is it going to come up in a fuse discussion? Some doth protest too much.

All the best,
Nonoise

Oregonpapa…are you implying that people disagreeing with what they feel are ridiculous claims by audio mythologists are likely to be involved in domestic violence?...it looks like you are, and the lack of mirth among the proponents of overpriced pseudo tweaks remains disconcerting. My previous post was supposed to be humorous, but substantial chips seem to remain on the shoulders of the Faithful who still can't explain why Magic Fuses work, so stretching out there to condemn objectors seems rational among the irrational... Again, there's nothing "negative" about reasonable objections, it's generally simply expressing a point of view based on experience and I'm happy to explain that to anybody.   

I don’t see the college campus intolerance analogy here. Otherwise there would have been appeals to the moderator to ban posters with contrary views. There’s no censorship here just opposing viewpoints freely expressed with the typical back and forth banter.

No crying to the moderator that I'm aware of but just request to refrain from commentary on specific subjects.

For the record, I'm NOT advocating adding a political section.

I can vouch for Frank's recommendation,  this recording  is vintage top form Milt Jackson playing . Frank on the  ebay link that Herbie Mann "Be Bop Synthesis" is very intriguing.  I'm going to buy it if available on CD. 
Charles 

Nice find on Ebay ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MILT-JACKSON-Second-Nature-The-Savoy-Sessions-2-LP-Savoy-1976-EX-vinyl-/2823...

For those of you who still play vinyl and who love great jazz ... jump on this one. Its a two album set recorded in mono with sound and music to die for. Jackson’s vibes are in the room.

Frank

geoffkait sez:

"I find amateur psychological analysis a welcome breath of fresh air."

Hey ... after 50+ years of making a living in 100% commissioned sales, I have the equivalent of a PHD in psychoanalysis. I usually keep this information carefully under my hat though and only share it with friends ... so please don't tell anyone. :-)

Frank

Hi Abner jack,
I don’t see the college campus intolerance analogy here. Otherwise there would have been appeals to the moderator to ban posters with contrary views. There’s no censorship here just opposing viewpoints freely expressed with the typical back and forth banter. Readers of this thread are capable of forming their own conclusions. I’ve posted numerous times that the anti fuse proponents have a place here. It doesn’t mean you can’t respond to them as you deem appropriate. With many college campuses these days there is a very aggressive effort to abolish "any" opposing view or belief. No one is doing that here. 

Charles

I enjoy the smell of beeswax in the morning.

I find amateur psychological analysis a welcome breath of fresh air.

😄

I have no opinion regarding fuse feasibility, but I do enjoy the banter.  I am however, beginning to see a growing lack of tolerance on both sides of this seemingly divisive issue.  These last few posts remind of what has happened recently on college campuses.  You are free to say and think whatever you want, as long as we agree with it.  Otherwise get off our campus.  I don't mean to bring politics into the discussion, but I do think that today's political climate is a reflection of us as a country and world - so very divisive.  Maybe this thread is a microcosm of the same unrest.

As Rodney King once famously said, "Can't we all just get along" ?

^^^ John and Charles ...  I too opt for "B." 

In addition, for your consideration, I would like to add category "C."

C) These are the ones who carry negative feelings throughout their entire narrow darkened little lives toward anyone who is more successful, more intelligent or better looking than they are.

There is a high probability of domestic violence perpetrated by them upon family members and/or friends either verbally, physically, or both somewhere in their history.

This is a person who bears watching very closely as one of the ways in which their "disease" manifests itself is in sneaky, underhanded subversions as they attempt to undermine those who they secretly hate.

In the business world we know them as "back stabbers." 

Frank
 

Jmcgrogan2 (John),
As usual an astute observation.  Choice B  sums it up succinctly. 
There's a certain sad/pathetic quality  witnessing people who must repeatedly pat themselves on the back proclaiming how "smart" they happen to be.  

The genuinely smart  don't have to constantly remind others of this attribute,  the proof is self evident..  Perhaps the saviors perched on their soapbox should take note.
Charles   

Wolfie, who are these "fools" that you keep referencing?

A) The ones blissfully happy enjoying the music of their audio systems?

B) The ones angry and upset at those who are blissfully happy for enjoying the music on their audio systems (because they should not be so happy according to laws of physics)?

It’s hard enough budgeting for one family. You must have the weight of the world on your shoulders trying to budget the whole world on your shoulders.

There's nothing "negative" about exposing the silliness of some tweaks…it's more like a clear and clarifying wind of truth that gently blows the smoke of mysticism out of the minds of fools to help them see clearly…or something. 

I just read the recent posts and Morini on Brahms is a favorite.   Other favorites of mine are Szyerng on Mercury, Kogan on EMI and Milstein on Capitol.  I probably have a 18 performances but those four stand out in front of the Heifetz.  However, none have recorded the Sibelius concerto sounding like his RCA or many other works.  Heifetz 50's recordings were especially fine/outstanding.

To all the naysayers.