Suspended cables
Is this better than using cable risers?It's BS. I have my cables going through the floor from the amp/s and are suspended under the floor in air all the way to the speakers, they sounded the same this way as they did laid out across the room on the floor to the speakers. Don't get caught up in this voodoo BS. Cheers George |
The "reasoning" involved is irrelevant. Literally does not matter. If the cables are off the floor like you say then it matters even less. No cable that short is gonna be damaged just by running like that. Now if you trip over it, different story. But get real. Almost can’t even believe you seriously would ask. Only thing that matters is does it sound better. Only way to find out is do like I did and support the cables on a riser. Check it out. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 They are like this for one reason and one reason only. And I’ll give you a hint, it has nothing to do with reasoning. Give up? Okay. They’re like that because I tried different things and these were heard to be better. Don’t waste your time here looking for reasons. All you’ll get is deaf bats never tried a thing but love to tell everyone who will listen all the made up "theories" and "reasons" they "believe" without ever having bothered to do the work to find out. Sad. Pathetic even. But there it is. |
Since you asked, I am assuming you maybe slightly bothered by the cable arc suspended in the air without any support. As miller pointed out it can be a tip over hazard if you’re not careful. If you must, then I suggest to use Cardas Multi-Blocks to keep cables off floor, especially carpeted flooring. They are inexpensive and aesthetically pleasing. |
I feel it’s only proper to point out for the benefit of those savvy enough to isolate their components what frequently happens is the speaker cables and or power cords exert sideways ➡️ or downward ⬇️ forces on the iso device, thus ruining the isolation effectiveness. In such cases the forces acting on the iso device should be *zeroed out* by suspending the offending cable or cord. The best isolation is obtained when the component is free to move in all directions. |
tweak1 My suspicion is that if the cable jacketing is susceptible to static electricity (and the carpeting is too), then yes, risers are important. That said, WireWorld jacketing accounts for this, consequently, it does not need risers >>>>>How do they account for vibration? |
-1969 we put man on the moon -1989 first B-2 stealth bomber flight -M.R.I, CT scan, Ultrasound, and now "wire risers" Why not some believe one size fits all... Definition of ignorance..Lack of knowledge or information. If our ignorance is infinite the only possible course of action is to muddle through and/or waste your money on pseudoscience. |
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Oddly enough, I'm testing the Mundorf AMT 25CS2.1-R tweeter as we speak. My listening room/testing area is in the basement. Concrete floor covered with hardwood and than an area rug. This morning I tested the tweeter with; microphone cable on the floor (snaked), cable on the floor (coiled), and finally elevated. I haven't looked at the results, I had to go to work. Tomorrow morning I will post my measurements at www.diyaudio.com 'multiway', Mundorf AMT ..... |
The audio system of most people, unbeknownst to them, are too noisy to conduct subtle listening experiments most of the times, and they are not trained by the experimental exercise that is implicated in the 4 embeddings processes... Changing a piece of gear in an upgrade does not count as an experience in listening, because the perception of changes is too biased by the purchase and sometimes too big and cannot be compared to another small past increasing changes like in various continuous experiments with the same pieces of audio system.... I learned that only correcting and controlling the 4 modalities of embeddings of an audio system make us able to discern what does what in an audio system...Upgrading a piece without knowing its real peak potential sound quality is foolish, and if we want to work with a piece of gear at his top potential we must correct and controls the 4 modalities of the piece’s embeddings... Then lifting cables will not makes a difference for most people most of the times, because their audio system is not even prepared , and they are not trained themselves with a rightly prepared audio system able to make them self trained listener in their own audio history... By the way I know that cable location and position makes a difference....And for the OP question, I myself will let them loose in this delicate arc by themselves because of their short lenghts ....If they were of a longer length I will be inspired to look for something like in millercarbon virtual system photos.... |
@Mahgister - I was just thinking the same thing. Will likely not bother with monofilaments. @Millercarbon - Yes, very cool setup! Lots of it still way over my head but very cool! Been taking your advice in some of my setup. Not complete yet. Yeah, I know it never will be. Guess I meant awaiting remaining "core" components because,... Still waiting on Swarm delivery! Will provide updates on this unusually small listening room setup. Swapped in 3 different subs. Did the crawl method with each. Results were satisfactory at best with one of the subs and in just ONE tiny listening location in the room. Thanks again everyone for responding! Reading these threads are always educational and entertaining (certainly never dull!). Hoping to be able to contribute soon. Soon as I know what the heck I'm talking about! |
Auditory hallucinations -Drugs,sleep deprivation,migraines,mental illness can often trigger the illusion of sounds that are not there. We're OK on that front,and have a well appointed acoustically prepped sound area. Now fitted with personal audio equipment approaching 100 K...If there was a mechanic in the can we've tried it.Knowing people in the recording industry did help beat down a few snake oil theories.If it sounds silly...it is, if there's no science that's the red flag. It's an incredible hobby and with due diligence richly rewarding. |
The only way to deal with cables is to interview EACH electron personally and have them give their point of view. Remember, electrons are NOT all alike. Some are white, some black, some Asian, some Latino, and some are mixed. You have to understand their relationship to each other to understand WHERE they want the cable when and for what specific songs. For example, for Eagles songs, they prefer to be ABOVE things, and for AC/DC songs...well, you see the issue there, of course. I suggest 6 years of college and a couple of PhD degrees in physics and psychoacoustics before deciding something as important as dealing with cables. OR, you could just realize that ALL the stuff about cabels is bull. If you bought them from an audio shop and they cost more than a few bucks, well, you will have to figure that out yourself, I guess. Cheers! |
I likely won't be spending thousands on cabling, but to say there are no differences, no improvements to be had is in my opinion not very open minded. I can A-B compare a set of power cables with another that I have on hand and tell 100% of the time which of my three sets of power cords has been inserted in my system when they are connected to my amps. Differences are in transient attacks and decay times. Risers? I'm open minded enough to allow that they perhaps improve things, but can't hear the difference. If someone wants to play around with them what's the harm? |
Instead of spending money on something that really is "pseudo-science", "black magic" and the rest of bs.... and spending huge amounts to no effect... Here is something that one CAN DO. Use batteries for power with decent true sine DC/AC inverter with double the power of your amp, or better, all of the components electrical consumption. Chemical power is very stable and clean and batteries can provide huge amount of amps in very short time interval. If you buy, say 5KW inverter, that costs 400-500 USD these days, you should be able to enjoy music finally.... Total isolation from the grid. And even if you use cheap cable, you will be surprised! And just remember... Your power supply does not start with you wall socket, regardless how much money you spent on it.... Try looking behind the wall and down the street... and then add a few hundred or thousands of miles or kilometers, it wont make that much difference, of the grid length... and try to imagine all kind of step-up and step-down transformers along the way to your wall socket...and your super, hipper expensive, super clean piece of cable... and tell me what it's worth then. I love music and HI-FI...just as crazy like a lot of people out there... But I prefer to spend money and brain power where it really counts and actually makes the difference... |
...And add about 5 meters of pure lead over and below the house to protect from solar radiation, neutrino, gamma rays from deep space, and of course, throw away your latest I-phone and wireless router and laptop as possible sources of RF interference... Then check the purity of the solder used inside your equipment. If not pure enough, replace with 24 carat gold. Then check the purity of all the capacitors... Maybe some of them not strictly produced to specification. Make sure they are properly insulated against vibrations, because vibrations can make liquid separate from the PURE foil and electrolyte, and therefore it can change capacity of the given capacitors in certain range of pure frequencies being reproduced.. While at it, check the purity of the wire in the speaker drivers... If the crystalline structure of the copper wire is not perfect, maybe you have too much resistance at given frequency, which may induce non-linearity in frequency response...And also, one should check magnetic properties of the speaker drivers...because they are most important part of the sound repro chain... magnets can be finicky... Their magnetic field can get out of shape for many reasons... Purity of crystalline structure of the metal used as a base for the body of the driver ... Proximity of magnetic sources... that in turn can produce non-linearity in maximum excursion range of the speaker membrane... That would be catastrophic...Total loss of linearity in the carefully setup system... I wonder how many of you can hear that? When all done, it should be nearly perfect.. except for neutrinos.. which can travel trough parsecs of lead. So, alas, no perfection is possible.. It is a non-zero mathematical possibility that one of them decides to react with a perfect setup of the cables in a most critical moment and ruin the perfect sound.. But, keep listening to experts...There is always hope... |
Don, if you are worried about noise pick up from power cords just cross them at 90 degree angles. Induction will not occur at 90 degrees. I make my own power cords using 14 gauge 3 conductor and foil shield cable. I have a 100 foot roll of the stuff. All my cables, line level, digital, speaker and power are made to exact length. There is no extra cable anywhere. With the power cords the shield is connected to the house side only preventing ground loops. You can run line level cable parallel and touching without any noise. |
How gentle, how wise, how curious some are, branding others, rejecting them in the deluded crowd, without experience or without being conscious that what we experience in an audio system is directly proportional to some accessible level of the potential of this same audio system and proportional also to our trained or most of the times untrained ears.... Training the ears implicate a continuous stream of experiments with the same audio system without any upgrade... After that the mind is being opened to the range of possibilities given by an audio system, where the 4 embeddings are completely controlled or not completely or half way between the two...After that an opinion has some value... :) "The door open only if you knock " - anonymus |
@hleeid I tried it for myself and while I could not hear a difference, that doesn't mean you won't. I like the orderly arrangement the cables are in now. This makes it much easier to keep everything separated. Not only that but it does keep that dusty funk from building up on the cables and makes cleaning around the area much easier. I tried paper cups and egg cartons before pulling the trigger on something permanent but they were too fragile. I was about to chuck the whole idea until I saw plastic rebar chairs on a site one day. They have semicircular notches that the bigger cables perfectly snap into. They are stable and you can get them for about $0.43 each. Google "plastic rebar chairs" |
Been discussed ad nauseam... https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/does-raising-speaker-cables-off-the-floor-really-make-a-big-difference |
