I'm looking to install a subwoofer in my bedroom system, The room size is 13' x 13'. I'm looking at the SVS 1000 Pro, the REL 1205 or the Golden Ear Forcefield 3. or I can use one of these in my HT set-up and move my SVS 2000 into my 2 channel stereo set up. My bedroom set-up consist of a Micro Mega M-100 with AE-509's, just looking to add a little low-end. Any thoughts on which may be a good match?
Bass get’s directional because of the overtones. A single sub prevents the Imaging directional Bass creates.
Thus, my preference, IF subs, use a front facing stereo matched pair, located adjacent to your primary speakers. When a pair, smaller subs can be successful, easier to fit.
Subwoofer Ports: I am not a fan, if so, front facing.
A major reason to use sub-woofers is so you can use smaller primary speakers WITHOUT ports in them, (which exist always to get more bass from drivers that cannot do it by themselves). Adding a stereo pair of Subs, then the primaries do not need ports! You might try blocking primary ports when you add subs (another reason to use two). Better to plan the combo of primaries with no ports and subs together initially than to add subs later.
My main speakers, 15" woofers, when designing the new cabinets, with the help of Electro-Voice Engineering (they were still in NYC then, and extremely helpful), we calculated tuned rear ports, to eke out a speck more from the 15". A youthful and wrong headed experiment I realized. In prior space, no wall behind them, the ports were a slight asset. Moved here. rear wall too close, I blocked the ports.
IF anyone buys speakers or subs with rear ports, I advise at least trying them blocked, make a decision.
I use this 3 lp set to evaluate bass, adjusting my speakers, evaluating cartridges, ...
btw, a pair of self-powered subs, pre to sub/equalizer, bass to sub, upper bass/mid/highs ONLY back to amp is a very good method of trying tubes, because less power is needed from the amp, thus more affordable, lighter, less heat, increased location options.
And, the smaller drivers will sound cleaner because they are not trying to do what they really cannot do.
btw, square rooms can be problematic, perhaps others here can tell us how they solved square rooms.
and, for Video, Small Home Theater like mine, I use a single sub, just to get things like Jurassic Park Dinosaur Stomps, Black Hawk Down ,,,,, Room filling Impact, not directional unless you have a large Home Theater, then, a pair!
13 by 13 is a small room... After the king size bed, dresser and tv go in, you may barely have room for a microsub such as the KEF KC62. However, It is a more technologically advanced sub that’s better for small room music than your subs listed above (will integrate better, more extension, etc). It is twice the price, of course.
A subwoofer that can’t get down below 20hz is not a subwoofer, just a woofer. Higher standards is key!
Deep_333, I have a queen bed and no dresser. Bed against rear wall that is sound proof wood slats and stereo against front wall. I had a Paradigm sub I placed under the foot of my bed and it died recently. I'm only using for music, No TV in bedroom.
B-stock SVS SB-1000 Pro could be a way to get two. Or a single B-stock SB-2000Pro. These new Pro versions have an app that allows you to adjust the bass using a graphic equalizer
My bedroom is of similar dimensions and is where I have my 2.1 system mainly used for streaming Netflix and the like.
I use an Arendal sub 1961s with my Magnepan LRS+. The aesthetics and performance based on reviews is why I chose it. Check out the reviews on Audioholics, Nemo Propaganda and the like.
I've been using a pair of older (bought used) RELs for years...a Q150e (10" front firing 150 watts), and a Q108MK2 (8" down firing 100 watts). They work absolutely perfectly and cost around 200 bucks each. These RELs seem to have more adjustability than new ones. In any case they are extremely "musical" in the sense that they just disappear into the music, and help keep standing waves from mucking up the situation.
You can reach out to REL and they will give you a recommendation. Just be aware that any listening position that’s against a wall is going to be prone to standing waves where bass may sound elevated/bloated.
As someone has recommended a Kef Kc62, I'd add that I have recently added a Kef Kc62 to a small room (10 x 10ft), complementing Kef Ls50W speakers (on isoacoustic stands). I'm extremely pleased with them and use them mainly for 2 channel listening. The Kc62 disappears completely and adds significant depth and dimension to the Ls50's (which were quite good on their own). The small size of the Kef is a real plus in a small room. In a larger room (with larger speakers) I have a REL S510, with which I am also extremely pleased. That REL would be too much in size and sound for my small room. I had considered the T7i as well, but the Kef Kc 62/s exceeded my expectations. I would add that if you watch Best Buy's website, as well as Crutchfield's, they often have "scratch and dent" or open box models which make them more competitive price wise again SVS. In both my systems the subwoofers provided a huge upgrade. So go for it!!
I have a similar sized room, good amp, (ATI) and Fritz carbon 7SE speakers, I use a SVS SB 3000 sub, and it is great. (loud Rock and Roll) Nice feature that is to die for, You can make all adjustments using Bluetooth from your chair, thus eliminating getting up and down constantly, worth the extra money, and one sub is plenty!!!
Thanks for all the input, it's appreciated. I ended up ordering an open box SVS 3000 Micro. Waiting for it to come in. I checked out the Arendal ( little big for my space ) and the KEF KC62, I like the KEF but with the SVS app I can easily make adjustments if the subwoofer is under the foot of the bed like my last one. ( can't access control panel ) and having the side woofer configuration it will work for my set-up.
For a room that size you could not do better than an REL T/7x, Even the T/5x would perform spectacularly for virtually any type of music you like to listen to. You will also discover there is no concern regarding matching with virtually any brand of satellite. speakers you own
If you are not familiar with these spectacular subs, I suggest checking out their website and even discuss you needs with a factory specialist. This is one audio product you would not likely trade for anything else. REL is also a wonderful company to help with optimizing your setup, which is surprisingly simple. The price/performance ratio is pretty much off the charts
@elliottbnewcombjr- Can you explain more about bass becoming directional due to overtones as it relates to subwoofers? I'm sure that there's some disagreement over the frequency where sound is no longer directional, but for the sake of discussion let's say that it's 80 hz. If the low pass filter is set to 80 hz, then any overtones that are above that frequency would only be heard through the main speakers maintaining the directional aspect of the sound. This is why it's so important for a subwoofer to blend seamlessly into the main speakers.
@mceljoPerceptively, a single sub is localizable even at 80 hz. Typically, you won't localize anything up to 120ish hz with 2 subs on the front stage. You may not localize anything with 4 subs probably even up to 150ish hz( 2 on front stage, 2 along side walls, etc depending on room layout).... Perceptively (you may need to experiment with it)...the more the number of subs, the higher up in crossover you could 'get away' with.....
@rbull11 "but with the SVS app I can easily make adjustments if the subwoofer is under the foot of the bed like my last one. ( can't access control panel ) and having the side woofer configuration it will work for my set-up."
No experience with SVS. Folks have mentioned good phone, warrantee, and satisfaction support. Seems like a smart choice.
Included affordable remote functional or application access has been available on subwoofer for almost two decades. Maybe just a bit to controversial or complicated for todays off the shelf designers. All the best with it
I use two SVS SB2000 Pros in my theater and they sound fantastic when I listen to music 2-channel. Keep in mind that the room acoustics are everything when it comes to subwoofers. There are a lot of great options in those price ranges, but none will sound right if you don’t place them properly in the room…
overtones emanate from the primary note, thus they are from the driver that makes the primary/fundamental note, (not another driver).
doesn’t matter what your crossover is set at, whatever primary note a sub (or any driver) makes will have it’s own overtones. (from that driver, from that location)
Say sub makes a 30 hz ’wide wave’ room filling mono bass note. there will be overtones: 60hz; 90hz; 120hz .... that become directional, enhancing imaging.
By the overtones you perceive the location of that sub making the primary mono 30 hz, You/your brain deduces where the fundamental comes from.
that’s why you want a stereo pair of subs, front facing, adjacent to your primaries.
no ports, if so, only front facing, not letting sound from the rear ports muddying the primary, in any way, even very slightly.
there is a ratio of decreasing volume as it relates to the overtones, perhaps someone can clarify that.
Got the SVS 3000 Micro in today and hooked it up. Sounds great. I placed it under the foot of my bed, Its located right in the middle of the main speakers about 3ft away. With the side firing subs it works out good and the app is easy to use. Now I just need to play with it a little. Thanks for all the input.
glad OP’s sub sounds good, most of my yap is about larger spaces, not partially filled with a bed.
rear surround, Sub(s) for Video is a different matter.
earlier I wrote "Black Hawk Down ,,,,, Room filling Impact, not directional unless you have a large Home Theater, then, a pair!".
You don't necessarily want the lows from the front for video, IF the content wants the fundamental impact coming from the rear or side.
Black Hawk helicopters, Dinosaur: coming from behind, over there ... are a great way to demonstrate the advantage of 5.1 surround’s REAR speakers. And, where's the sub, i.e. where does the director want the fundamentals of that Dinosaur Stomp to come from?
I don't know anything about large Home Theaters,
I have only 1 sub in my small home theater, and it is adjacent to me, under the end table, facing forward. It takes some diddling with to get the crossover and volume 'right'. It, combines with the directionality produced by the rear surround speakers. My fronts have 12", so I only want 'big' stuff from my sub, otherwise, don't want much out of it.
Many people set their rear speaker’s (and sub(s) volume too high. Normally, you should not be aware of them, but if you turn them off, the sound/image collapses to the front.
Happily existing without calling themselves out, until they perform their real purpose which is rear/side directionality and big impact.
Pseudo Surround can be worse than front 2 channel Stereo. i.e. watching "The Voice" singing contest. Donna and I often say to ourselves "they must be hearing things we are not" because that was not superior in any way. Change your AVR to Direct, or 2 Channel, it is surprising how much better it sounds. Try this for other content, often, if the original is not recorded in surround, it sounds far better in 2 channel.
When it’s good it’s good! A terrific sounding (and visuals) DVD, one of the very first:
"Thus, my preference, IF subs, use a front facing stereo matched pair, located adjacent to your primary speakers. "
I would stay away from this type of installation, unless your value aesthetics over getting the best sound quality.
We position our main speakers to provide the best best overall sound, but their ultimate position does not guarantee that the woofers are in the optimum position for low end accuracy. Adding a pair of subwoofers will only address room deficiencies if they are placed with that in mind.
Keep in mind that whatever problems with the woofer positioning, will only be exacerbated by adding more low frequency energy to that same location.
For purposes of 2.0 stereo, you cannot do better than REL. GO TO THEIR WEBSITE AND THEY HAVE A TOOL THAT WILL HELP YOU SELECT THE PERFECT SUB FOR YOUR ROOM BASED ON YOUR ROOM SIZE AND SPEAKERS
Whatever you choose, try to avoid convention and go nearfield. By dumping all the energy into your listening seat, you avoid problems with room boundaries. You owe it to yourself to try this.
How do you posture yourself to listen to music? Do you sit on a chair between the speakers? Do you sit at a desk? Do you lie on the bed?
For the best listening experience in a small room like that I would first get rid of the bed. If that is not possible, then you could probably sit on the edge of the bed, pull your speakers several feet from the wall, and move your sub around until it sounds good. If you have two subs it will be easier.
I use a single REL T/5x in 16' x 22' room and it sounds great with a pair of Harbeth P3 ESR speakers. Plenty of bass for me. If you are a huge bass hound and play a lot of EDM and hip-hop at high volume, I'd shoot for a T/7x in that tiny room. There are other subs, but for my room, speakers, and listening habits the REL t/5x is perfect. YMMV.
Will your wife be in the bed with you? She could adversely affect the listening experience, or possible enhance it depending on the resonance of the room.
You are in a small cluttered box. You cannot produce sound waves that can expand much and therefore all that owned is unfulfilled and distorted. You actually degrade your sound as you get lower in a room like yours, so if you’re going with a sub because you buy into this,set your blend at 120hz. The point is to ease the requirements of your woofers. You’re much better with a good set of stereo speakers that get good extension. The main point of a subwoofer is low end support not extension. Do you really need your room to shake when the tyranausorous rex walks across your tiny screen in your bedroom? It’s pure distortion. Lastly, watching tv or reading in bed is flat out disruptive to sleep. That’s a well-documented fact based on numerous studies.
The SVS SB1000 Pro would be the ticket, assuming it's sealed/acoustic suspension, like my SB1000. That's the type of sub you need in a 13' x 13' room (same dimensions as my home office).
The SVS is appropriate to head to a land fill if you are listening to music and prefer not to have a one note thud.
Can’t go wrong with REL. I have 2 in my audio system and very nuanced and musical in the low end. Can make the subtleties of drums and bass guitar come alive and give a sense of the air and ambiance of the recording venue.
golden ear also has good high-end reputation but have not heard them.
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