I have been doing a demo with Merrill Audio Element 116's. Excellent amps on several levels. After around a week I went back to my Classe' CA M600s. They were off for about 7 days, the longest they have been off for aprox. 4 years. I played 5 tracks with the 116's and then hooked up the Classe's and played the same 5 tracks. The Classe' sounded lifeless! Also take into consideration Class D and Class AB. I was stunned. I hooked the 116's back up. Well it finally dawned on me last night! The amps were stone cold! No wonder they sounded lifeless! Been playing in the Audio world for a long time! And I make a bone headed blunder like that! Needless to say got up at 4:30am switched some things around and warmed up the Classe' Amps. Now my evaluation may be more accurate! Still shaking my head...
Interesting how these little accidents prove so many things a lot of so-called audiophiles claim are impossible. In the first place its impossible to remember what anything sounds like for more than a millisecond. Since you didn't swap amps at the push of a button no way. Yet you heard it. Amazing. There's no such thing as warm-up, and certainly nothing needs to be left on all the time. Yet you heard it. Amazing. These amps all measure near perfect, so they must all sound the same. Yet they don't. Amazing. Why its almost like those people don't know what they are talking about. Yet they keep right on talking the same nonsense. Amazing.
I've done a bunch of stuff just like this. Brought home a phono stage for demo one time, thought not worth the hassle to put it on the Shelf and Cones, we'll just use the factory power cord, should be good enough. Sounds like pure crap. Well they usually do. Very few make the cut. Then later before boxing up to return it thought why not I have time, moved everything around and now with the good power cord etc (and having been on overnight) dang this thing sounds pretty good! Not quite good enough to keep, but at least now its close. These things really do make a difference.
Another time, once again rushed for time, came home new interconnect on the porch can't wait to hear this! In a big rush I hook it up and sit down and what the??! Absolute crap! Okay well its cold. While later, now listening to warmed up crap. About the only difference now I can hear more clearly the crap. By crap I mean it was like my system was broken. It was a used IC, thought who knows....? But that can't be. Really bugged me.
Finally next day at work occurs to me, did you check which way it went? No, you did not.
Get home, sure enough, flip it around, all is well. Rookie error, yet more proof we can hear these things, stuff like warm-up and directionality is real.
Some just deny, deny, deny. Some of us learn from it and are able to figure things out. Congratulations. Welcome to the club.
Well said Millercarbon! All these small to large nuances form an accumulative balance of sound within ones system. From my components, dedicated circuits, outlets, to cabling. All though I did stop at the carbon Furutech cover plate! The strange thing (and you picked up on it) Its very difficult for the brain to cultivate sound, especially component to component! I listen to my system a lot!. Yet because I was so focused on the 116's (which are great amps) and my ears/brain became so in tune with the 116 amps I basically forgot what my Classe' sounded like! Until I had my delayed brain storm and remembered I never warmed the amps up! 3 days later! It was almost as if my brain couldn't digest what happened! As far as the naysayers go, I don't pay much attention to them. I've come to the realization most don't know how to evaluate what they are hearing. I'm actually happy this occurred! It gives one pause to pay attention to what they are doing. Still disappointed in making such a basic blunder!
Back in the day when l was a bouncer at a hometown bar in Canada. I went to work one (1973) night and the and the place was packed when l showed up. All the waiters said to me don't let anyone else in!!! I said what hell is going on?? They said some new band called Rush is playing tonight. My reply was, who the hell is Rush???
It could also be psycho-acoustics. The 116s sounded different to what your ears are used to. You liked that new sound, assigning positive words to the characteristics you liked. Switch back to the 600s and those characteristics were gone. But after a few hours the old patterns you always did like came back to you. Like trying out a new chair in the furniture store. Feels great! Get home, your old chair feels soggy. But an hour into your evening tv and that old friend feels great again. Maybe it needed to warm up a bit too.
There are those who claim there is no such thing as audio memory, that we cannot exactly recall some song or album we heard for comparison purposes when auditioning components. I disagree - how many of us seniors have played certain albums back in the day so many times we recall every bit of them right down to the symbol splashes and vocalist’s moans?
For me, there are at least a dozen or two classic albums that fit this category but it was brought to the forefront by a recent Japanese boot release of needledrops of 1st US pressings of the first 4 Led Zeppelin albums. Their sound immediately brought back memories of those original US pressings, long gone from my collection, but unequivocally sounding "right" through my Oppo/Hafler/Maggie system. If I were auditioning cables or even components, I doubt I'd have a problem comparing those sounds with these cds choosing between them.
Am I the only one that realized the MC just contradicted himself from one of his posts I read three minutes ago that appeared in my inbox about "Amplifier Warm UP"?
@andrewkelley
"I had a cycle cross bike called Jake the snake"
I've got a bike. You can ride it if you like It's got a basket, a bell that rings and Things to make it look good I'd give it to you if I could, but I borrowed it
Hello, I was thought this by a man selling Really high end SS amps. They were the size of carry on suit cases. I wanted to listen to another set of amps. With his permission to touch the components I unplugged the amps and used the cables on something else. He went ballistic due to he had a customer bringing a set of 2ohm speakers to the store to audition the amps. When we plugged them back in just an hour later that sounded completely different than before. He said it takes three days before they are fully warmed up. I definitely heard the difference! Thank god for balanced cables. It impossible to mess up the direction as long as the manufacturing built them correctly.
I definately remember the differences I hear. That does not mean I cannot adapt and enjoy my second best preamp ot my third, a Bryston, but I do recognize and can describe the differences.
@millercarbon is slinging his baloney around again. Of course there is warm up. Tubes take time to warm up, at least 15-20 minutes and and hour is most ideal. SS takes longer. That's why leaving on SS equipment is good. And differences are easily discernible, maybe not for him, but for most people. He speaks like his is the only way and the only knowledge. There is a guy like that in the bible born 2000 years ago. Chuck Miller is a know-it-all that knows very little. He is a troll.
man I am jealous having never seen Rush the band live in person and certainly not in some arena....
my other comment, obtuse as it may have been was really about such a deep understanding of the sonic impacts of temperature and therefore bias requirements in tube and SS devices that the music loving designer would see fit to implement liquid cooling...
Only time I every turn off my integrated amp is when the cleaning lady comes - just out of paranoia....and it is solid state and always warm. Phono stage is always on - there is no switch. When I forget to turn it back on after they leave and do it right before I play a record, it takes a while to sound normal.
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