I have a decent digital front end with a Lumin U1 Mini (w/ external power supply) and a Border Patrol SE dac. Have some CDs, but no transport. Would a CD transport sound better than a streamer of similar quality/price?
I have not heard the Audiolab 6000 CDT but it receives consistent positive comments for sound quality at a very affordable price. @bkeske@mksuncongratulations! I hope at some point you all are able to hear the Pro-Ject RS2T and Jay’s Audio CD transports.
Granted they are both higher cost but I bet both of you would really enjoy them. Exquisite CD playback sound quality. I strongly suspect that the same can be applied to the Technics transport/network model owned @nonoise. It seems that Technics took a no nonsense approach.
1 Much attention addressing vibration/resonance of the spinning drive unit.
2 Fully discrete analog output stage circuit (They eschewed op-amps).
3 Serious focus on power supply quality. No doubt this device does justice to playing disc media.
@charles1dadThanks for the advice! I have long had my eye on the Jay’s Audio transport first the CDT Mk II and now the Mk 3 as my next upgrade. I had read that it pairs nicely with the Pontus and I would be able to use the I2S inputs for increased SQ. Now if I could only overcome the funding issues. 😀
@bkeske, congratulations on your Audiolab transport purchase. CD still has a lot going for it and it takes significant work to better CD quality from a streaming system. While I am getting excellent results from high resolution streaming, I have no intention of ditching my CDs - or ripping them - life is too short for that!
@charles1dad, as usual, you head the bullseye with your comment on the Technics SL-G700. Any company willing to do what is necessary can build a fantastic CD/SACD player, can do so.
I have been personally blessed to have owned and still own some of the very finest cd playback systems ever made. And I have never heard a streamer on a display that I was taken aback with or one that I could say kept up with the cd systems I had at home. That being said I have never bothered to ask about what they were running for the demonstration as I just wasn't interested. Now a few things to keep in mind there are not that many stores around here anymore so likely have not heard many different setups. Also I don't make the trip up to the big cities that often anymore the one city is a two hour drive the other is a six hour drive twenty years ago went almost every weekend and heard many systems that were on display. I can remember being blown away by a few systems and what cd playback system they had in them. I bought one of my favorite of the group and likely should have done what it took to buy the Linn cd12 at the time. Likely what I thought was the best redbook cd player I ever heard but I had the sonic frontier dac and transport three and it also is superlative. The one person commented on the thread about the connection boxes on either end of the streaming system likely not being optimized for audio might be what I have heard at cost no object HiFi stores that I don't like about streaming. Not sure what it is and as I said I was never interested enough to learn about them or buy one as I felt is was a step down. I have wondered they way fellows write about them if I have only listened to cheap junk and not a real good one. But at the present I am more than happy with the four top end cd playback systems I have and easily live with two of three three I had in the past. CD playback has always been important to me.
I appreciate your post and sentiments on importance of CD playback in your system.
As far as streaming goes, a decent streaming setup is far from plug n play. The biggest nemesis of any streaming playback system is the ‘noise’ emitted by your router. As you’ve probably read here, many here have gone above and beyond to reduce or eliminate the noise. I am going to go out on a limb to say that a good streaming setup is close second to a Vinyl setup in terms of complexity. Once you address the noise, streaming can be as satisfying as any other playback medium. And then there is this whole endless debate on “CD is better than Streaming” without much consideration given to provenance of a recording you are listening to on a CD and Streaming services which BTW, is the single most important differentiator as to why a CD may sound better than its Streaming counterpart and vice versa. Then there is level of commitment to electronics between CD and Streaming setups :-)
In my system (featured here in virtual systems) streaming has transcended both CD and Vinyl. I still buy CD’s and Vinyl but with clear emphasis on finding ultimate recordings. For me, it’s no longer about which medium is superior sounding.
@charles1dad well my list of the best cd playback systems I have heard are as follows. A Linn cd12, DSC Elgar Purcell pair(yes not particularly fair as it upsamples), sonic frontier transport and DAC three, Wadia 270/27 separates, Naim CDS, Mark Levinson DAC 30.5 and driven by the Oracle transport. Of that group I bought a sonic frontier transport and DAC three. The other players I have and have had that I consider a small step below these are a Krell kps20i,wadia6, Theda universal transport and gen three DAC, enlightened audio design seperates.another step down was Roksan dp1 transport and DAC, the transport was very good the DAC I didn't care for I replaced the DAC with a chord 64 and that took it up comparably to the others In the one step down category. I was offered the Linn cd12 at at great prices the dealer was wanting rid of it and I should have done what it took to buy that one but I past on it back in the day.
@lalitk yes likely a very true statement I find that setup is the difference between good and great and part of the endless pursuit! In the main system I getting close to having the cd playback the way I want it. Building a different wall mount for my turn tables still think over if I should put them on one wall mount or two. New house so new room is what is going on at the moment. A friend of mine gave me an audio research reference phono stage and in just a quick listen I think that seems much better than the on board phono section in my Ayre k1xe. So it will take awhile to get that the way I want it but all good things come over time. Also I wonder if I should belly up and buy the cartridge I have always coveted ouch! Get it setup right first then go from there. The second table I am setting up for 78 playback. I was thinking I wanted to hear some of those one more time I listened to them as a kid. You might all laugh but as a young fellow I found an old tube radio that was my grand parents radio in a cupboard at the farm I hauled it out and plugged it in. It worked anyhow dad rewired it the powercord was falling apart due to age I loved that thing and in my mind it took many years to get anything that I found as entertaining as that old bakelite radio was it was a sad day when that died. My second system I went to a tube system lol I have the beauty of that old radio plus plus. Basically where I want to go is get my turn tables setup and enjoyable I also have an mr71 tuner to finish getting setup. I wondered about an SACD player and when one of my dealers told me they were only good for about two years of regular playback then the laser would only work on cd's I wasn't Interested any more and I decided to head along the route of 78 playback as stated before to listen to some old music I liked as a kid. I bought a used clear audio table and a rega78 cartridge so not too much into it to try and have some fun. It would be neat to hear a streamer that someone has well setup but I don't know anyone who does who has a reasonably good stereo. The problem with listening to demos in store is deciding what is wrong with the demo which piece of equipment is wrong or the setup is wrong. That is the big challenge to store demos. That's where spending many weekend all winter long in HiFi stores helped when I did that as I got to hear different pieces grouped with other items and you could more times than not the determine what each piece sounded like. Lol and then the lessons where money was involved helped very much you in fact learn more when you realize you bought the wrong thing! Lol. Funny how loonie I would have thought I am now thirty years ago this last weekend a friend was over and we were auditioning receptical s and different plugs on the power cords. I know what I like but he has a better ear than I do.
I do not disagree with a word you wrote. I do not stream but I have no doubt that it is capable of excellent sound quality. It just requires more work due to hunting and eliminating many noise entry points. CD transports are an older and now mature and sorted out medium. as @nonoisewrote above, engineers know how to get disc playback right if they are committed to putting forth the effort.
Much easier and simpler to get it right with CD transport relatively compared to digital streaming at this point in time. Routers/switches/ethernet/optical/optional LPS/ etc. Lots to consider with streaming, but if done right the listener is rewarded for his painstaking effort.
Thus my firm belief that either chosen route can sound superb if using high quality components and a clearcut plan of approach.
The Audiolab 6000 CDT has interesting specs ensuring excellent CD playback:
The master clock is controlled by a temperature-compensated crystal oscillator.
the coaxial output is fed from a differential line driver to ensure a flawless digital signal reaches the accompanying DAC.
The transport is housed in its own, electromagnetically shielded enclosure, and includes a dedicated power supply.
Not bad for the price ... but of course please note what Mojo Audio say about the Jay's Audio CDT. For any of you that have owned a Mojo Audio DAC you should know how reputable his equipment is so he should know what he's talking about!
I understand that the Jay's Audio CDT impressed him so much he stopped making computer based audio transports. Also be aware that Audio Note in the UK firmly believe the CDT is far better than computer audio streaming.
How long is it going to take for the makers of streamers/servers to realize that all their hard work is being undone by a noisy signal and build a streamer/server that cleans up that signal? It would be easier for them to do it once rather than have all the end users trying to reinvent the wheel by attaching all kinds of power supplies, cables, switches, etc. Is any manufacturer working on this?
Good point and I think this is precisely what all out efforts like Taiko Audio with their Extreme music server is an example of addressing the noise and power supply issues. By all accounts its sound quality is sublime.It seems to eliminate the need for multiple digital streaming component/parts signal path add ons.
It would be really interesting to see your systems. There is a place under your user ID to place photos and identify your components.
Up until recently vinyl ruled at all price categories… CDplayers have slowly gained ground (simply a transport + DAC). But in the last few years good quality streamers have made tremendous advancements and now can perform better than CD players (equal on red book CDs and better on high resolution files). This is possible at different price categories. So, I currently have a system where vinyl, CD player, files, and streaming have equally outstanding audiophile sound. Putting together such a system can be done at different cost levels… although I think it is still a bit more challenging at low investment levels.
Achieving truly high end sound quality remains challenging. But for those up to the challenge, the effort is most worthwhile by investing in streaming. CD players certainly can sound fantastic, but they do not categorically sound better and they limit you to the physical disks you have in hand. While streaming is available in equal or better sound quality with a nearly infinite library for nearly no cost $14.99 / month… like one CD per month or 1/2 vinyl album.
@ghdprentice hit the wrong thing and have to start again. The front end has the sonic frontier transport and DAC three with reflector 6922s wired with furutech 55 powercord s and there top of the line plugs and IEC ends. A furutech evolution balanced interconnects. A Linn lp12 with a xlo reference ten powercord wire into it and a Linn kylde cartridge Linn interconnect a itok Valhalla table. The clear audio base table that is going to be the 78 playback system with a rega78 cartridge. That is balanced and will hook up to the Ayre k1xe phono stage and the Linn will hook up to the audio research reference one phono stage AP's with a set of reflector 6922 tubes. An Mr 71 McIntosh Turner With a st2 antenna. The Ayre k1xe has a transparent super power cord second generation with the three boxes the top of the line in that series cut the plugs off and installed furutech gold 48 plugs and IEC ends on it there are three dedicated 20amp circuit s that the front end plugs into. There are two with the top of the line furutech receptacle rodium plated and the other one is the top gold plated receptical. The Ayre is hooked via second generation transparent reference xl balanced interconnects to a pair of mark Levinson 33h mono blocks that have been recapped. Those amps have the top of the line furutech plugs wires on to them three more dedicated 20 amp circuit s on that wall one for each amp and one other the dedicated circuits are all on the same leg of the box they are all the same length the room is 16x23x7.5. the monoblocks are hooked up to the harbeth slh5 speakers via transparent generation three speaker wire. The speaker wire and s raised off the floor on powerline insulators. The speakers are on foundation stands. And all equipment is on thick blocks of dense hardwood purple heart and rosewood. They have brass points under them each has its own board. All are two inches thick or more.
System two is am Canary audio system. A pair of ca160 mono blocks with a ca 801 two box preamplifier and the Krell 20i cd player. Wired with a set of first generation transparent reference speaker wire. Furutech RCA interconnects and furutech 55 powercord and two more transparent super three box interconnect s with the furutech gold plated plugs. The Krell has a xlo reference power cord with the best furutech plugs and there furutech receptacles one gold two rodium the ones. The speakers are a set of equation 25 s.
The bedroom system has the Wadia 6 cd player with a melody h88 integrated amplifier that has been modified with oilers and it is an early made in Australia one with RCA tubes and a pair poison two dome phase speakers. Speaker wires are transparent ultra xl second generation. That also has transparent super interconnects and two box transparent plus powercords. Stock ends thinking I should sell them and buy some furutech powercords. Also a McIntosh mr73 tuner.
Home theater system four speakers is all neat stand mounts as rear surround and small front towers MIT terminator 2 speaker wires furutech HDMI cables and a Sony es blue ray player and a nad receiver. Same two box transparent power cords including the TV. A cheap 75 inch sharp tv lol the furutech HDMI cables were more money than the TV.
Bathroom system lol a set of kef in wall speakers and an aa001 integrated amplifier with a cheap Sony blue ray. More two box transparent power cords.a 32 in h sharp tv mounted on the wall I can watch a movie while relaxing in the jet tub.
Lol the garage system I have to get in from the farm a pair of beat klipsh Cornwall speakers and an old Kenwood integrated with a tube Sherwood tuner. That was a second hand store buy less than a hundred dollars on that one! Took about five years to find the pieces for it. Lol.
I will see if I can post a few pictures for you. Regards
As an individual, who has a short history with using a CD Source in my System, and have been very impressed with using the method as a Source. I have been positively influenced through the use of Digital Stored Information a Hard Medium being used for musical replays.
The good impression made on myself, has also been instrumental in my developing an interest in learning about other Sources 'used' or 'shortlisted to be used' for Digital Replays, at present, it is quite a broad interest in devices, CDT's, DAC's Streaming via Laptop or Dedicated Streaming Devices.
A Thread with such content as this does present Source Equipment, with user assessment to back up the suggestions, that enables a shortlist of devices to be produced and investigated further.
Thanks for taking the time to post your multiple systems components. Would love to see the pics whenever you get around to posting your system in 'virtual systems'.
When I was replacing my damaged speakers and cd player that stopped working, I auditioned them at the time with a streamer and a sacd/cd player, both from Esoteric Audio. My experience with streamers was limited at the time and upon hearing the first music out of it was surprised just how good it was; the dealer (I know these guys well) even attached a Rubidium ( basically an atomic clock) based clock component, the size and impressively priced I might add to the rest of the components they make. That took Mahler's Eighth to another level. But the problems quickly showed their evil head. Maybe two or three other bits of music were as good as the Mahler and even other symphonies from the same Mahler series were sonically different like sourced from a lesser quality source. The sacd/cd player on the other hand made everything sound fun and I mean everything. When I came back on another day to get the speakers I brought cd's that I love, not audiophile stuff but things that I had purchased since the eighties and just love to listen to. I guess I show my age but I have no problems preferring cd's, Lp's, sacd's, and even the occasional cassettes I made back in the eighties and nineties. And with some of what I have read about some of the newer digital recording technology being suspect, buying a new transport is a safe investment. For me streaming would be more of a background listening thing and I like radio for that. I hear enough new or unknown music to keep me engaged.
And as a side note, I recently acquired a Magnavox( Philips) 560 cd player, about the earliest Philips TDA5141 chip based player, built-in august 1986 and made in Belgium. This looks like my first machine; a modified version that was made by "The Mod Squad", at Music By The Sea, a former Steve McCormack company. This though looks like it was sealed in a time capsule and in perfect or is as near mint condition that I have seen in the last few decades. Even has the remote that looks unused and some original literature that came with it in near flawless shape. I always loved that/this machine from the Mod Squad until it stopped working twenty-five years ago. The possibilities to improve it; discrete opamps, output caps, passive and active power supplies, etc., are endless but I'm keeping it stock. I'll cleanup all the contacts and conectors and replace the (C7?) power cord with something better. When I make some room on my equipment racks, I will place it with the rest of my main system, giving it the respect that I think it deserves. I still can't get over just how clean it is.
My project rs2 sounds better than tidal masters or the same cd ripped to server... Makes no sense... But so for me I stream and if I really like album I buy it.... Also seeing the music better for memory
Just for some balance, there are quite a few audio enthusiasts whom understand IP networking who believe that audiophile routers and switches and signal reclocking dongles have no positive effect.
there may be something to upgrade at the streamer end. But the network before it should have no audio quality aspect except if you literally have dropouts.
No server or streamer is ‘completely’ immune to noise being transmitted through your mass produced routers. A server like Taiko at $30K may do a better job than others at rejecting incoming noise but nonetheless still susceptible to incoming noise. Every streamer or server out there regardless of price simply benefits from noise filters placed in between server or streamer and your router. To what degree, that comes down to your components and overall system transparency. Read up on updated review of Taiko with JCAT network card, upgraded Router and Etherregen Ethernet switch. Interesting feedback indeed as how each of these components impacts the overall sound of Taiko Server.
Hi,, Again no disagreement with your comments. My point is that Taiko Audio is an example of a company with a very committed and focused approach to tackling the inherent noise issues associated with streaming. I didn’t intend to suggest that they have completely solved the problem and that “all” noise has vanished. Some manufacturers are further along this path than are others.
No doubt! Taiko remains the standard bearer in this category. I came so close to head to head comparison between Taiko and Aurender N30SA but end up going in a different direction. No regrets :-)
Every streamer or server out there regardless of price simply benefits from noise filters placed in between server or streamer and your router.
Yes, I have one myself. I believe the manufacturers should be able to do this better if it’s part of the design of their server/streamer, though. Maybe no one has done it yet, maybe they’re just becoming aware of the problem, like jitter in the early years of cd players?
Maybe it will take a purpose-designed router, cable and streamer system? I think someone will get it right before too long.
When I watch football match on tv, I use to listen streaming music from tidal or from my NAS. But when I want to LISTEN music, then only vinyl or cd (44,1khz from cec transport)!
You comment on audio packets being streamed over TCP/IP perfectly is correct - the IP packets will arrive at their destination in correct order using checksum calculations, it's all part of the robustness of this comms technology.
Noise is not at all relevant during the IP packet sending stage (unless you are getting obvious dropouts), because as I said earlier the IP packets will be in the correct order on arrival to the receiving device.
Noise can only enter the end device (streamer) by physical contact, for example over an Ethernet lead - so maybe a good quality Ethernet lead at the very end is all you need.
If you have an excellent wireless connection - then the only issue is how well the wireless receiver in the streamer is being shielded from the rest of the electronics. If there are no dropouts over Wi-Fi then all the IP packets will be received in the correct order and therefore there is certainly no need for audiophile switches and leads for obvious reasons.
In summary - IP packets in a good network will always get to their destination in the correct order (i.e. the streamer) - so from a binary perspective connectivity will always be perfect. It's the physical connection only which could introduce noise that you may have to deal with.
No server or streamer is ‘completely’ immune to noise being transmitted through your mass produced routers. A server like Taiko at $30K may do a better job than others at rejecting incoming noise but nonetheless still susceptible to incoming noise. Every streamer or server out there regardless of price simply benefits from noise filters placed in between server or streamer and your router.
the inherent noise issues associated with streaming.
Just to add balance, there are many network knowledgeable people who do not believe there is an "inherent noise" associated with streaming. Keep in mind these types of beliefs sell products, just like dietary supplements and copper bracelets.
Not saying none of it has any effect. But caveat emptor just like everything else. Audiogon isn't immune to mythology.
I couldn’t agree with you anymore. I have a long ‘wishlist’ of things that manufacturers should be addressing with their components. I’m not expecting components built with price considerations to have all the bells and whistles but like anyone else, have high expectations from components that command top dollars. I guess that’s what makes this hobby so much fun that we get to try and tweak the sound of our systems to one’s own likings.
I don’t think there is a ‘audio’ purposed router available yet (wouldn’t that be something) but market is now flooded with Ethernet switches and USB re-clockers designed for streaming audio.
Seems we are onto something here. I wish these external boxes, filters, reclockers, switches, LPS’s etc.. we’re not needed. For the money we pay for our high end servers one would think these external boxes would not bring so much sound quality improvement. However, they do.
The Network Acoustics passive Muon ethernet filter certainly improves the engagement factor of my system by reducing noise. I can only imagine how wonderful the JCAT product is.
Just to add balance, there are many network knowledgeable people who do not believe there is an "inherent noise" associated with streaming. Keep in mind these types of beliefs sell products, just like dietary supplements and copper bracelets.
Not saying none of it has any effect. But caveat emptor just like everything else. Audiogon isn’t immune to mythology.
"Mythology" ? There are always differing opinions and experiences especially with regard to High End audio. It appears to me reading comments from very credible and experienced members on this forum and say WBF that these additional parts/accessories used in streaming are in fact beneficial and improve sound quality.
I suppose it is easy for some to write this off as "mythology" expectation bias, delusion and all the usual fallback dismissive/mocking terms for those who do hear results with these products.
What makes those who claim streaming signal noise is not a problem (Non existent) and the noise addressing products (Switches/filters/cables etc.) aren’t necessary anymore credit with their contentions?
I have both an Audiolab 6000CDT and a Sonore ultraDigital/opticalRendu streaming stack connected to the same DAC. The transport is coax connected and the streamer i2s
The transport was $500 and the streaming kit approx 2k
If the file formats are the same, the playback is very close in SQ
Most of my CDs are 16 bit/44.1kHz
Tidal and Qobuz offer many additional file formats with less compression and higher bit rates, up to 24-bit/192kHz
For example, when playing the same song at 16 bit/44.1kHz from the transport and streaming it at 24-bit/192kHz, it's not even close - I'll stream the high bit rate file every time
That tells me the question is less about CDs, transports and streaming and more about file formats
Thus IMO the beauty of the streaming services is all of their remastered material in file formats that exceed 16bit/44.1kHz
Secondarily I do not have to repurchase my favorite CDs at the higher bit rate, if they were available, it comes with the streaming service
If in the future an old CD is remastered, again you don't have to go buy it. It's just added to the streaming library and you'll see it the next time you search for that song or album
If a new and improved format is adopted, you'll be able to stream it without any additional cost, where in the case of the transport you may need a new one that's capable of playback in the new format
What I do not see as a streaming option is SACD or DSD file formats
Which again takes be back to the differences in file formats, not the difference in transport vs streaming
Lastly the convenience of streaming better suits my lazy nature
The amount of music and the number of artists I can enjoy in an hour streaming, far exceeds what I can accomplish in an hour searching for and swapping out CDs
Uneven playing field. Try a CDT(maybe borrow?) around the same price as your streamer that has i2s outputs, using the same brand and type cable, and then tell us what you hear.
Uneven playing field. Try a CDT(maybe borrow?) around the same price as your streamer that has i2s outputs, using the same brand and type cable, and then tell us what you hear.
That would be a more valid comparison.
All the best,
Nonoise
My thoughts exactly. The Audiolab 6000 CDT is very nice for 500.00 USD. But to be perfectly candid, you can go substantially above and beyond with upper tier CD transports. Far higher CD playback sound quality via transport is easily achievable.
"Mythology" ? There are always differing opinions and experiences especially with regard to High End audio. It appears to me reading comments from very credible and experienced members on this forum and say WBF that these additional parts/accessories used in streaming are in fact beneficial and improve sound quality.
There are very credible minds on both sides of this debate.
I don't want to turn this thread into that same old debate. However, I do believe that mentioning "the inherent noise in streaming" as though that is an incontrovertible fact and that these devices are necessary to correct them does a disservice to the less experienced wanting to get into streaming/digital music.
So I just think it's fair to note that there are other credible, non-fringe viewpoints, especially given the prices of some of this gear relative to more fundamental items that could be addressed with that budget.
I don’t want to turn this thread into that same old debate. However, I do believe that mentioning "the inherent noise in streaming" as though that is an incontrovertible fact and that these devices are necessary to correct them does a disservice to the less experienced wanting to get into streaming/digital music.
Great point, and one that I’ve used a few time when people would denigrate CD playback due to all the "inherent" drawbacks that were stated as factually occurring all the time when, in fact, that was never true.
That was at or around the time when streaming first started taking off and everyone was rushing to it like moths to a flame. Factor in the numbers game (high rez sampling rates!) and it was practically a blood fest with CD users feeling like they were on someone else’s menu if they spoke up.
Now here we are with a mature technology that’s getting even better and one just past it’s nascent stage that has quite a journey ahead of itself.
@jji666So I just think it's fair to note that there are other credible, non-fringe viewpoints, especially given the prices of some of this gear relative to more fundamental items that could be addressed with that budget.
Fair point and observation, I readily acknowledge there are conflicting perspectives. Referring to those with alternative views or outcomes as "mythology" is smug and pejorative in my opinion.
My main point is that the really upper echelon streamer/server manufacturers seem to have identified signal path noise and power supply quality as the glaring weak links. Most say products from companies such as Taiko, Antipodes, Grimm, Pink Faun and so on have achieved superb sound via this focused approach.
So if they are mistakenly attributing fault to the wrong "focused" on factors, what explains their high level of sound quality as a result of their efforts? For those who say noise is not an issue, what do they believe accounts for obvious different tiers of sound quality amongst various servers/streamers? Or is there denial that sound quality differences even exist?
It wasn't intended to be smug but apologies for any insult. In reference to this quote, I don't feel too bad about calling it out. It's an extreme statement:
Every streamer or server out there regardless of price simply benefits from noise filters placed in between server or streamer and your router.
In the name of adding balance and credibility to your beliefs, would you please care to tell us your streaming setup and what have you tried so far? BTW, here is the my original post.
“Every streamer or server out there regardless of price simply benefits from noise filters placed in between server or streamer and your router. To what degree, that comes down to your components and overall system transparency.”
I have zero issue with your intention to add as you put it balance to this discussion. I suspect that most following this thread feel the same. I've inquired several time out of genuine curiosity for you to cite or describe these credible people who dismiss digital streaming path noise as a factor affecting sound quality.
I have listed previously the names of highly esteemed manufacturers who do believe that noise is a real and present issue. They have produced and offer ultra quality streamers/servers based on this concept. I'm simply asking you who are the designers/developers/builders (Credible as you put it) of these type of components who believe noise is a non factor? What have they produced?
In the name of adding balance and credibility to your beliefs, would you please care to tell us your streaming setup and what have you tried so far? BTW, here is the my original post.
Sure, although any attempt at thoroughness would seriously hijack this thread. I had no intention of doing that.
I have 3 streamers at the moment - 2 that I custom built based on The Computer Audiophile specs for their CAPS streamers -- fanless ATOM boards with SOTM USB cards and SOTM ATA filters (which didn't affect sound in my tests) -- and an Auralic Aries, each outputting to different DACs via USB, AES/EBU, Coax, presently I am rotating between a W4S DAC2, a Mytek Liberty II and a Schiit Gumby.
I'm on my 5th generation (yeah I wanted to get these right) of home-built Roon core servers (2 locations) which I found have to be seriously overbuilt to mitigate Roon's various bugs and resource leaks. Network is 10Gb ethernet all wired.
Listening through either a Levinson, BAT or Bryston preamp and typically through rebuilt Magnepan 3.-series actively biamped (Marchand crossover) through Krell, Classe, or Levinson amps and REL subs. Stream Tidal/Qobuz although I have a local library of about 4000 titles; many of them my own DVDA and SACD rips.
I've moved houses and replaced all network gear through multiple generations; changed out network gear dozens of times to no impact. Experimented with all kinds and standards of wi-fi as well. Assuming standard network gear up to spec and protocol, there's no difference in swapping out that gear. I find that you don't get much or any difference in these tweaks (meaning specifically data transport) until you get to the DAC - I've rotated through 8 or 10 of those.
But look, this isn't even about my particular opinion. When I see an absolutist statement that ALL streamers/servers benefit from network noise filters, I am simply saying there are lots of educated folks who disagree.
After carefully reading your post, I am standing by my statement in its entirety. This is a open discussion forum and you are certainly entitled to your opinion and beliefs like anyone else. And I do appreciate your participation.
“Every streamer or server out there regardless of price simply benefits from noise filters placed in between server or streamer and your router. To what degree, that comes down to your components and overall system transparency.”
entitled to your opinion and beliefs like anyone else. I
Fair enough. So are you! My post wasn't intended as a request for you to retract your statement anyway...but I thought it called for a response, which I too stand behind!
Enjoy your gear. It sounds like you have a lot to play with...that's really the fun to me.
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