I posted the first part of this earlier in the week. There are a few other threads running concurrently here about this same subject.This is my personal experience with this situation.Ive been using a Aurender A100 streamer/dac which is they’re entry level unit, the SQ wasn’t horrible but I was pretty sure I could get it better.In a attempt to do that I purchased a Denafrips Pontus two and a DhLabs Mirage Usb cable to use with the A100 utilizing its Usb out.The two local hi fi dealers here in SO Cal both told me this would not produce much of an result and in my opinion after trying it they were both correct. So… as I stated in the first post I was coming from a “bit is bits” perspective which was I was convinced adding a better Dac would accomplish my goals, I just couldn’t believe that the zeros and ones could possibly effect the quality of sound. But not being one to give up I decided in for penny in for a pound Id see for myself if there was anything to the other side of this conversation, I wanted a new toy for Xmas anyway.So I traded my A100 plus some cash to TMR ( nice people btw) for a shiny new Aurender N200 which arrived yesterday. Last night the moment of truth, I hooked up the new unit with the exact same everything as before in my system nothing different but the streamer.I let the tubes and everything else warm up for a few hours,picked a song I knew inside and out sat down and pressed play. Immediately within the first few notes of the Stones “ Wild Horses “ I knew I had made the right choice and that I was wrong believing bits are bits “. I really don’t have adequate language to describe the difference in sound quality other than to say I feel like Im in someone else’s home listening to they’re far superior system, its that drastic.I can with complete confidence say this has got to be one of if not the most significant upgrades Ive made in my system, scouts honor! PS. Grinin ear to ear here.
Charles, i share the point of view from your post, which not necessarily contradicts to what I said. I do not blame people buying these streamers, i only questioned if the price they are sold is justified and if we, buying them, are in fact pushing further rise of their public price.
@jerryg123, could you please be more moderate in your unproven statements and hypothesis?
@bikeboy52, one of the supplied tubes in my set amp was blown out and that is why I had to look for substitutes. And once you start this process it is difficult to stop until you find something ideal, which may never happen. Paying for a 60 years old nos tube pair 2-3 hundred dollars still seem to me more reasonable than 6k for a small computer.
@niodari Wait! What ? So your post of October 8 titled “Tubes , cheese, wine and congnac “where you brag about the five different and expensive boutique vacum tubes you tried in your amp are ok?? Lets see here “so far tried Mullard ,Gold Lion , and Tang Sol “its Tung Sol by the way, why did you waste money on those when the stock tubes Im sure are perfectly fine? How many could you have fed with that amount of wasted money I wonder? Tubes ,cheese wine and cognac, not bourgeois at all,nope.Please be so kind as to submit a list for me of things that you deem acceptable to purchase, thanks in advance.By the way Im warming up my stock Prima Luna tubes now, I’ll replace these when they’re dead.
“Charity comes from the heart not the wallet.” @jerryg123
I couldn’t agree with you more! There are many who have the means to give, but not the heart to shell out a dime. BTW, your reply to audiotroy was precious 🤣
Bet this guy has not spent an hour at the local church feeding the less fortunate. I do every Saturday evening and Sunday morning before church. He would rather chastise people here.
Charity comes from the heart not the wallet. My time is priceless. If I spend $15K on my Innuos Statement thats my business.
If you guys are so willing to spend your money in a magical improvement for a well-advertised product, go ahead. There are thousand people suffering because of the lack of meal, i would rather donate than contribute in making rich individuals richer. Do you really have an idea why N200 or whatever their product costs 6k, couldn't it cost 5,4, or 2k?
There are people who’d chastise you for foolishly spending 500.00 when you could purchase an audio streaming component for less than 100.00. Why would you spend five times as much just to stream?
This is why it is wise not to worry how other adults handle/spend their disposable income. It’s no one else’s business. Every individual has their own chosen range for spending, whatever the reason/factors may be.
People are better off if they manage their own lives and not worry what others are doing.
I would ask you a similar question, how much would you be willing to pay for Aurender V200? if it were 8k, would it be still ok, or say, 10k, or perhaps you would also admit 13k or more, still there will be some improvement in SQ? How you measure the limit in case you have one? This is what the marketing is about, if they see you eat it, they will further increase the price.
I think that the Node is fairly priced, it does it's elementary job to transmit the data. In fact, do you realize that the difference in SQ from one badly recorded composition to another fairly recorded one would be much more than in your 6k upgrade?
I will tell you a secret that, in fact, am very keen to compare the Node with these steamers, but there are no such dealers close by here where I live. And it is against my principles to pay 6k for a simple computer (i would, if it were day 2k, which is already five times more, since obviously it will not be worse than the Node). Honestly, i don't like these big screens in streamers, they attract your attention on non important things when you wish to concentrate just on music. And I guess these screens are half from the total price.
“For me, this is just a dirty business and I would not like to contribute despite that SQ is so important for me.”
@niodari
Pardon me, I don’t mean to be rude but please give us one good reason why any of us waste our time explaining the advantages of upgrading streamer if your mind is already made up?
And please STOP insinuating how anyone here should spend their hard earned money or savings!
Now Santa Claus may have some problem in deciding whether to put Node 2i in the case of an Aurender or in the case of some other "respectable " streamer to do his magic, including the magic of returning money back.
Given that Santa Claus may already be in a deep meditation and rest after hard Christmas work, it only remains to trust yourself. This thread, intensively or non-intensively is an implicit advertisement for the label and one particular product which costs a lot of money. If you guys are so willing to spend your money in a magical improvement for a well-advertised product, go ahead. There are thousand people suffering because of the lack of meal, i would rather donate than contribute in making rich individuals richer. Do you really have an idea why N200 or whatever their product costs 6k, couldn't it cost 5,4, or 2k?
Music and audio is as important for me as my work. I am willing to pay for something that can be justified, 6k for a streamer, a simple computer with an incorporated monitor, for me, is just unjustified, it is not a technology that takes that much money to produce it. For me, this is just a dirty business and I would not like to contribute despite that SQ is so important for me. In fact, i sometimes think that i am fine with a little disturbed reproduction during streaming because it somehow makes digital sound more analog.
Can somebody explain clearly what particular advantages in SQ they have upgrading streamers?
If your system has a bottleneck south of the streamer, you will never reach the streamer’s full potential.
I only will recommend something if I have used it first hand, own it, demo’d it or used it in some capacity
I can recommend the N200 if the rest of your system is of the same caliber it is worth a demo.
Like I have said numerous times, the Node / Vault is a great streamer The N200 is better in every metric, especially the most important aspect …. Support.
He could do the same magic if you have been ordered Node 2i instead and, he would in addition gift you in addition $5500 :-)
This is true if you compared them directly in your audio system and heard no sound quality improvement. Then of course you would buy the less expensive Node 2i and be happy.
If on the other hand an Aurender N200 is significantly better sounding then you have a decision to make. Am I willing to pay more to get unquestionably better sound performance streaming my music. I suspect that most listeners/music lovers will opt for the improvement they clearly hear.
It seems that quite a few people are questioning the wisdom of spending time and money building or improving systems for streaming music.Aside from the fact that I have the ability to hear virtually any song that pops into my head,its the first upgrade path I’ve taken in this hobby that actually pays for its self, vinyl records are what ? Thirty dollars a pop , Cd,s what? the same? I saved every penny of the cost of my latest hardware purchase by not buying any physical media for the last year.Sure the subscription to the streaming service is a small cost but also what I would consider a steal to have that kind of access. Its the future and its here now.
It’s always refreshing to hear that an upgrade profoundly works.
In the expanding world of gear for streaming music, stepping up and getting real results is really doable (as with upgrading the components in one’s system).
For less than the cost of an upper mid level turntable and cartridge (not to mention that phono stage) you are in business for not nearly as much. This could include ethernet clean up too and better PSU’s (than wall warts).
Alas those who must bludgeon on about bit are bits or ethernet is ethernet or wire is wire, will never know or experience the thrill of better sounding music via streaming. It’s like the opposite of the old Tarrington commercial with the tag line “I’d rather fight than switch.” I’d rather switch than fight.
Ironically to you nay sayers we are only trying to help make you aware of the possibilities. Remember the old song refrain?
"We're parting, you go your way I'll go mine
It's best that we do
Here's a kiss I hope that this brings lots of luck to you
Oh makes no difference how I carry on
Remember, please don't talk about me when I'm gone"
@ianrmackI too will be getting an Airlens. Going to compare that to Sonore. I have my network isolated with Melco switch on Plixir LPS. Right now on optical. Will be putting on Ethernet for test. Just remember it’s only got I2S output. No usb.
Totally ignorant statement, sounds like some hostility towards Asian products here. The individuals here using the better/best streamers are those with the most experience.
By the way, wonderful streaming and audio products come from all over this world, my system is equal opportunity, and I'm certainly experiencing the results of artisan's expertise from all over the globe!
they are the first streamer/ dac recommended by 99% of people here and most of this guys are dealers and so on
Totally disagree. I would personally never use Aurender, until they decide to do Roon, so no horse on this race, but, people who use it, like it a lot. And they are users, not dealers. Can you prove your baseless claim whoever recommended Aurender here is a dealer?
they are the first streamer/ dac recommended by 99% of people here and most of this guys are dealers and so on
I disagree, the vast majority of posters providing their listening experiences are not “dealers” but rather regular folks who are happy to share positive outcomes with audio products. What is wrong about that ?
For those who believe that dedicated music servers/streamers are overpriced and overrated then avoid them. Why question the motives snd listening impressions of others? This makes absolutely no sense.
In all the time I've been on various audiophile forums don't recall a single instance of audiophile subjectivist going over to the dark side. Can't even begin to tell you how many moved in opposite direction.
I'd like to see a single documented case of someone going from audiophile streamer to general service computer used as streamer and preferring it. And if its all one and zeros why even use anything other than any old laptop, can't imagine anything more convenient.
I couldn’t agree with you more! I believe it’s the mindset that if I use Node as a transport to transmit bits then a more expensive streamer won’t matter 😊
@ianrmack+1w Ketchup. Im a building contractor.we’ve got a whole area in our shop w equipment to chip/drill masonry,bits up to 48 inches long.The 21st century is a great time to be alive we’ve got all sorts of technology available to us to make our lives better and easier.but you know, you gotta be open to it.
Good points. There are numerous testimonials from posters on this and other audio forums citing improvement when moving from entry level to higher quality servers/streamers. It isn’t a new revelation. Confirmation bias works in two directions. People can convince themselves that something can’t possibly work or make a positive difference, mind completely made up in that regard.
When listeners report hearing improved sound quality why the skepticism and suspicion? Why do their claims require “objective “ tests for verification and legitimacy? Where is the logic?
“I am happy to try an Aurender and am not afraid of spending $ for value” @ianrmack
If that’s the case, why not borrow N200 or N150 from your local dealer and listen, compare in your own system. Wouldn’t an audition in your system be easier way to settle this matter rather than few of us trying to convince you. You’ve already read few posters reporting their direct experience with N200 over Node. How many more posters will it take to convince you, do you have a number in mind?
I certainly WOULD give it a try but I need WiFi connection and have a perfect 800mb connection. Lumin, aurender, auralic all require direct Ethernet and that would be a pain as I have a 120 yo home with thick brick walls.
can aurender do wifi?
You sound scared to try something that might trounce your Node. You have two options.
1) Mesh Router
2) Break out the hammer drill. It is not hard to run cables. I just ran one from my router to my new streamer because it was worth it.
Also, your argument about justifying expensive purchases is silly. I bought an Aurender used for a very good price. I can easily sell it for a profit, but I will never go back to the Node. It's just that much better. I do not mean to talk bad about the Node. It's a great way to get into streaming and the software, I thought, was great. There is just so much more out there in the streaming world to be had, though.
And you don't have to spend 6K to beat the Node. A second hand Aurender under 2K will do the job just fine. I'm sure there are other options, too, but since I don't have experience with them, I can only speak of Aurender.
I'm just looking for objecticity and your resposnse only confirms my main objection: You cant describe the sonic benefits and instead collapse under the weight of your own convictions in your more expensive choice.
So you expect other people to convince you? Breaking news!!! They owe you nothing. Figure it out for yourself.
There are literally hundreds of threads here on streamers. But you fail to read or search for them. Why? Confirmation bias. You only seek information that confirms your preconceived beliefs, and ignore those who don’t. The very definition of confirmation bias.
Or you can try for yourself. Oh wait! You can’t! Due to the lack of Ethernet. Then you choose to agonize in the internet about why people who do try are likely hallucinating, and these things do nothing. All evidence points you are firmly entrenched in your bunker. Me thinks. Trying to reason with you by showing you “objective evidence “ is a complete utter waste of time.
@1extreme“Last night the moment of truth” Yes what Im trying to get across here is that its instantly apparent that sound quality has improved. The concern here seems to be my six grand ( paid five btw), the notion that I rushed to judgment or that Im not qualified to know what Im hearing. So to that ,been listening to it for four hours a day since it,s been in my system,the money, not a problem, as a life long musician and music fan I feel pretty confident of what I hear also. But nothing I can say will convince you ,I posted my experience here because I felt that it was an honestly conducted experiment that I myself wanted to know the answer to, but you gotta be open to that and your minds already made up.Why would I lie? Aurender,s not a publicly traded company I dont have any interest in it. Audio is just a hobby of mine I’ve got a few , Enjoy!
@thyname: No, not at all. I'm just looking for objecticity and your resposnse only confirms my main objection: You cant describe the sonic benefits and instead collapse under the weight of your own convictions in your more expensive choice.
THAT, thyname, happens all the time and I have been guilty of it for sure. Plus, instead of adopting some sort of confrontational tone, please expand your opinions into digestable and usable info. I am happy to try an Aurender and am not afraid of spending $ for value. I kjust did that on my LTA Z40+ amp.THAT was a mind-bending experince that can be immediately quatified!!!
DACS...? Yup, i get that.
Streamer heads...?...just like CD transports 10 years ago, the law of diminishing returns may well have been written to address this issue....!...;-)
certainly WOULD give it a try but I need WiFi connection and have a perfect 800mb connection. Lumin, aurender, auralic all require direct Ethernet and that would be a pain as I have a 120 yo home with thick brick walls.
Bingo! Now you have a good reason why you cannot do anything else. It sounds to me you are convincing yourself that there is no benefit of using anything more expensive than a Bluesound Node as a streamer. Confirmation bias works both ways. You are not immune.
I certainly WOULD give it a try but I need WiFi connection and have a perfect 800mb connection. Lumin, aurender, auralic all require direct Ethernet and that would be a pain as I have a 120 yo home with thick brick walls.
I know you can’t imagine what you have not experienced…..but, I’m waiting for any professional, reviewer, hobbyist or other to objectively define just how and why a $6k streamer only can yield better results other than other the mantra: Trust us, we are better.
two many side by side tests with Nodes and others vs. Lumin and others where groups of listeners can’t tell the difference.
tons of experiences of customers with extra $ to burn on a gorgeous streamer who justify their emotional purchases with reviews exactly like the OPs. Aurender admits on tHeir web site that the power supply is the key. That makes sense.
but to think that for an additional $5k they can make Tidal Connect sound better is just not sound logic u less they offer a tangible defense other than consumer enth
"Last night the moment of truth, I hooked up the new unit ..."
Seems like you spent more time writing your review than listening. Can we all atleast agree that these first impressions would carry more weight after a few days of listening, maybe. It's kind of like a new groom in his honeymoon suite writing about his impressions of married life. Happy you're blown away.
I upgraded my TP modified Node to the Aurender N150 (one step down from the N200 that I also own) into my Pontus II. Teddy Pardo is a nice improvement to the Node but the Aurender eats it for lunch. Haven't tried the N200 with the Pontus yet, but imagine it will be better yet.
@ianrmack$6K for just a streamer head? You effing kidding me?
FWIW, I took a 5V Teddy Pardo LPS into a Bluesound Node and then went USB into a Pontus II and it is about $1,000 and can’t imagine a much cleaner result
I can believe this is a nice sounding and cost effective choice. I’d find it hard to imagine that it approaches the sound quality of an Aurender N200 model.Two different tiers of performance it seems.
Ahem….the OP has had his new toy for 24 hrs….the infatuation phase. Y’all are lapping up a giddy reaction like it was some new Stereophile Class A Recommended product.
$6K for just a streamer head? You effing kidding me?
FWIW, I took a 5V Teddy Pardo LPS into a Bluesound Node and then went USB into a Pontus II and it is about $1,000 and can’t imagine a much cleaner result.
then it goes to a new Linear Tube Audio Z40 int amp and some Dynaudio Heritage Specials and I am in heaven.
ok. I admit I "KIND OF" skimmed the responses. Isnt the N200 a network player??? what DAC are you using? (again I admit it might be noted there and I missed it)
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