Triangle Delta or Alphas.
Speakers for low-level listening
My listening area is in an open family room (not ideal, I know, but no other option at present). This means much of my late evening listening in at low levels.
I am presently running B&W 804d4 speakers with a McIntosh MA352 hybrid integrated amp. I like the combination of these components, but the B&Ws seem to lose some detail and sparkle at low listening levels. What comparable floor standing speakers would offer superior low level listening SQ?
I am considering Focal Sopra 2 or perhaps even AK6 Klipschorns (I previously had Klipsch Cornwalls and found them very enjoyable for low level listening). I am especially interested in insights from anyone who has paired McIntosh amplification with either of these speakers or others that performed exceptionally well at low listening levels.
22 responses Add your response
JBL 4367 is as detailed as the 804D4 in the mids and highs and more detailed in the bass. I find them very enjoyable at whisper volume to rock concert levels. They almost seem immune to volume change. It is a much more refined speakers than the Klispch Cornwall. The box is better, the drivers are MUCH better, the horn is more damped, the frequency response is smooth off axis. If you want more highs at at low volume you can add a bit with the switched in the front. I am using a Mac MC462. Demoed the whole Klispch line and B&W D4 line on Mac gear. I am also a former owner of B&W, Focal, and Klispch. A friend of mine has corner horns and I would not recommend them to anyone for serious listing. They are more of a novelty speaker imo. |
The headphone suggestion is the best one. I work very late at night (1-2AM) and my headphones keep me going and motivated to stay up. I usually start the phones around 9PM. I can recommend 3 headphones that are top if the heap. A few days ago, I bought the RAAL SR1a for the second time. This phone is the most 2-channel like of the 3 and maybe of all headphones. It is called an earphone and not a headphone due to the way it is placed on your head.
Your MAC integrated amp will drive the CA-1a and the SR1a well. The Immanis may not be a good match if the amp is too powerful. RAAL has the TI-1b adapter that will interface with the MAC integrated. |
the fletcher munson low level listening curves document that you (all humans, even at young ages) will lose low level and sparkle, from ANY speaker or live sound at low volumes, exactly what you are experiencing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour IF a speaker sounds good at low volume, it is far from flat, it will not sound good at normal listening levels, thus you need to learn how to get the low level and sparkle back. You need to boost bass some, perhaps boost highs a bit, and, the best way is a properly implemented automatically and progressively engaged Fletcher Munson Curve. Your modern McIntosh does not have a 'loudness' circuit like the old ones do. You have a 4 band equalizer, default is OFF, you just need to tell your 'too smart' amp to turn the equalizer on (separate settings for each input I think), then then you need to find adjustments that work for you at your typical listening levels, with your existing or any speakers. Then, turn volume down, adjust your tone controls and listen. Next, return the eq to flat or off when you go back to normal listening volume. You can also pre-adjust the levels of your various inputs, so the volume of your CD Player, TT, Streamer .... are similar as you switch them. Tricky, menu, electronic settings, actually harder than the old methods IMO. A Chase RLC-1 Remote Line Controller has built-in automatic and progressively implemented 'Loudness/Low Volume' adjustment. None at normal or louder than normal, some or more progressive bass boost as you further lower the volume. Your unit does not have a processor or tape loop, which makes using separate processors easy and optional, however, you can plug 1 to 4 line level sources into a Chase Remote Line Controller, plug it into your amps default input, have optional use of other McIntosh inputs .... I even use my Chase to power my Furman P-1800, so I get remote system power, remote balance, mute, volume, and if I lower the volume, it maintains involvement by boosting the bass progressively. I like how my shop system's Yamaha CR-1040 Receiver handles it. Two Rotary Volume Controls: one Volume, one Loudness. Set Loudness to Zero, raise Volume to normal. Now, use Loudness to lower the volume, it progressively lowers/implements fletcher munson curve. Loud: Loudness back to Zero, Volume Further Up, no adjustments occur, just 'Pump Up The Volume'. I use it thru the processor loop, one of the ways to determine you cannot tell if it is in line or not. You must have a remote, there are no controls on the unit.
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I would suggest adjusting your five band equalizer to see if you can get the sound you want at low level with your current speakers before purchasing anything new. I have an MA8900 and due to my neighbors (I live in a townhome) my late night listening is often somewhere between upper 40s to mid 50s db. It’s around midnight right now and I’m around 50db but I have tweaked the equalizer to accentuate the higher frequencies. I’ve got a couple of subs so I actually have to turn those down a bit even at low levels. I find it very enjoyable to listen late night. I still get a very good soundstage and imaging and it’s so quiet everywhere else it feels louder than it is. |
I have to second or third the headphone idea. I have a separate headphone system myself and in many respects rivals my main system… while different it is inspiring and compelling each time I listen to it. I will say it was as much effort assembling as my main system. My systems are shown under my userID. |
To expound on my advice to try headphones.. |
This has been covered many times before. Using what equates to little more than a loudness button is antiquated thinking. Ultra-sensitive loudspeakers, often horn-loaded, are more dynamic. Dynamic range at all volume levels, including at low levels, is higher. The human brain perceives increased dynamic range as more satisfying at low listening levels. You yourself already wrote;
So, I have to ask, haven't you already answered your own question? |
@fsonicsmith wrote:
I definitely agree with regard to high sensitivity speakers usually coming better to life at lower SPL's vs. low sensitivity, passively configured and direct radiating speakers with dynamic, i.e.: voice coil- and cone-fitted drivers. What accounts for and are the mechanisms behind low SPL acuity is less clear to me however. A more or less educated guess could be that the actual horn-loading with its gradual diaphragm/cone to air coupling from high to low impedance is part of the explanation, as is the higher ratio of direct vs. reflected sound meeting the listener. Added to that is less inertia build-up in the cone or diaphragm with more (effective) displacement area and less movement for a given SPL, which reduces smear and, at least as an outset, leads to a gain in clarity. Connected to this can be better rise/stop time and transient abilities/micro dynamics (perhaps that's what you alluded to with your mention of "dynamic range"?). Sitting in front of a large displacement area and high sensitivity, tall speaker system, certainly as heard from my own setup, clearly gives way to a more "attentive" feel for the music at lower SPL's vs. a low sensitivity and smaller speaker system, and that's despite of my main speakers being ever so slightly rolled off in the upper octave (soon to be alleviated with a pair of JBL 2405 Alnico supertweeters), which is due to large format and 2" exit compression drivers that are naturally bandwidth restricted in the upper octave. To the OP: I'd definitely consider and even strongly prefer the suggested AK6 Klipschhorns given your stated preferences. |
I use Focal Utopia headphones for late night listening at realistic levels. They are incredible. I regularly listen to two systems (one on the house main level and one on my walk out basement level). The upstairs system is a BAT VK-33 preamp with a BAT VK-76SE power amp and Focal Electra 1037 Be speakers with matching Focal SW 1000 Be subwoofer. The downstairs system is a BAT VK-31 preamp with a BAT VK-600SE power amp and Legacy Focus SE speakers. The Utopia headphones are a great alternative for late night listening when I want to keep my wife happy! |
Borresen speakers are designed to compensate for our ear’s lack of sensitivity at lower volumes. They measure poorly by textbook standards but they sound dynamic and satisfying at the loudness levels most listeners prefer. The primary complaint I have with B&W’s 800 series is they lack the bass drive and fullness you’d expect from a speaker of their respective size and woofer complements, which is especially true of the 804s and 803s, much less so the big 800s. I have never found the 800 series to lack any “sparkle” or detail in the highs. Their diamond tweeter is one of the best in existence. Alternatively, perhaps a better and cheaper option vs new speakers would be to invest in expertly designed room treatments, especially with regard to the high frequencies. |
