I have Elipsa SE paired with SET 845 tubes. Documented 55W per channel.
My amp Mastersound Evolution 845 drives Elipsa to concert hall levels without breaking a sweat. Solo instruments e.g Piano and Cello sounds better than Live! You can’t beat realism of a SET tube amp on reproduction of musical instruments.
I was told 50W tube amp will be inadequate for my hungry Elipsa's with demanding curves down to 2ohms. Don't believe the numbers and what people tell you here. They give opinions based on theory. Do your own test and you will be surprised what works. I have a 25W SET that also sounds amazing with Elipsa. Quality of transformers is often understated.
I listen to classical almost exclusively. Send me your phone number Ill send some videos of my system.
Whatever your decision, I think careful amp/speaker matching is a key. My Atma-sphere MA-1 amps sound good with many speakers, at 8 ohm or even below, but they sound great with 12 or more ohm and high efficiency speakers. Even my former Krell FPB600 was very sensitive to the speaker matching, although it was claimed to be able to drive just about any speaker in the business. And it did. But not always optimal. I had the huge Dynaudio Consequence floorstanders, their flagship at the time, and found out that they would need 2 x Krell 600 to do them justice (which was not possible). Even the massive 600 was not enough juice to make them sing and dance. No wonder: they had been tuned to an even more massive s-state in-house amp, at Dynaudio. The problem was increased by the ’smart’ A-B circuit on the Krell. At low level it played cool A-B, engaging the pure class A only on higher level. This did not work out with the speakers.
This is no detriment of the Krell amp or the Dynaudio speakers - both were excellent - just an illustration of the importance of amp / speaker matching. If you don’t get it right (optimal), it does not help if the components are excellent. You won’t get the full value of your investment.
I have a friend with Elipsas, they sound very good, so I understand the idea of looking for a new amp. If so, I would use some time, preferably listening to the amps at home. Maybe they need a lot of power to sound their best.
If you stay with the M60, I would go for speakers designed for this context, like Audiokinesis. They may not be as refined as the Elipsas and you might miss the Italian handiwork, but then again, the electrical match including the crossover would be great.
It was actually Ralph at Atma-Sphere that suggested Audiokinesis speakers, after I replaced the Krell with MA1 amps. I have been grateful ever since. There are limitations and problems, in this system as in any other, but the match is very good indeed, reducing the problems.
@atmasphereMark Levinson 532, balanced/differential amp 400W@8ohm and 800@4ohm, etc.... I have a 12dB Rothwell attenuator between pre and power amp so I´m not using the full output of the ML.
@atmasphereRoom is 26 x 14 ft ceiling is about 9 and I like the music in some how realistic volume level. I listen a lot to live music also , jazz and classical, so the "live" feeling at home is important to me. The Elipsas can play quite loud. The impedance curve drops down to around 2 ohms in the lower register so they are not easy to handle.
@fredagFor the M-60s I would use speakers that are at least 8 Ohms and 91 or higher efficiency.
With any amplifier, tube or solid state, its beneficial for the speaker to be easier to driver rather than harder; this will always result in less distortion! The higher impedance speakers will also be less critical of the speaker cables.
I would expect the class D to work fine with the Elipsas, depending on the size of your room and how lively it is.
The problem is that many can fix the amps but they do not have access to parts from Harman. Now: can I buy parts from YOU, IF needed? Living in the frozen north is a pain....specially without music ;)
@fredagI get that- we live in the frozen north too! Our amps are designed not only to be easy to service, but to also work with available parts. You can certainly get them from us! We stand behind our products even if they are decades old, although when we service our older products, they are likely to sound better than when new...
atmasphere: HARMAN Luxury Audio Group told me that too...but they forgot to tell me at what cost ;). The problem is that many can fix the amps but they do not have access to parts from Harman. Now: can I buy parts from YOU, IF needed? Living in the frozen north is a pain....specially without music ;)
@fredagSomehow we've managed to keep our products alive in Europe :) We've been exporting to Europe for the last 33 years. They about built to last and also to be easily serviced.
Thank you all! Many ideas... Elipsas and M60 won´t work. I don't think it´s worth the time trying that combination.
I drive the Elipsas today with a ML No.532, differential amp 2x400w, or 2x 800 at 4 ohms (like the Elipsas). Good dynamics and soundstage for symphonic music..
The Atma-Sphere D could be something to try, they are in Europe, 7.200 USD.
On the other hand there are plenty of used Tube-gear... A-S, ARC, etc. for that kind of money.
I´ll keep reading this post, so feel free to post more recommendations!
atmasphere: Thank you for your answer! Are there any service and repair options (or ways of getting spare parts) in Europe? Being in my second repair on the ML No.532, each for 3.000 USD, I am developing some kind of allergy against US-amps.
The SF is a 4 Ohm load, rated 91 dB Sensitivity. To convert to Efficiency, which is a more useful spec for tube amplifiers, you have to subtract 3dB on account of the fact that Sensitivity is a voltage measurement, while Efficiency is power. 2.83 Volts into 4 Ohms is 2 Watts and the Efficiency spec is 1 Watt/1 meter. Thus we arrive at 89 dB.
I don't think the M-60 can make enough power in a room of that size, even when using the ZERO autoformers to correct for the impedance (and also results in more power, about 80 W/channel).
IME, having used speakers of that efficiency in a room of similar size, I found 200 Watts to be more satisfying. You have several options; if you get the M-60s and keep the SF loudspeakers, you want a set of ZEROs and you'll be living with occasionally overloading the amps.
Or you could get a more efficient loudspeaker. Some good suggestions are on this thread (I don't think the older Quads would be good since they are not all that efficient).
Or you could get an amp with more power for the SFs. If you go this route, FWIW our class D amplifier sounds a lot like our M-60s and has no problem driving 4 Ohms with considerably more power.
I’ll reiterate some variations of similar speakers here, having owned a few Atma-Sphere amps myself. The Quad ESL 2805 electrostats would sound sublime in that size of a room since they won’t reflect too much off the side walls, and you should be able to easily give them 48-60 inches of breathing room from the front wall.
For Devore, I’d suggest you look at the O/93 as well. They are just simply lively, dynamic, and transparent.
OP: FYI, I have a LSA Voyager GaN 350 (solid state) that has exceptional sound and is very affordable. Ric Schultz modifies them to take them to another level.
I have Emerald Physics 3.4s which are Open Baffle with 12" concentric drivers and one inch polyester tweeters. Super easy load. If you’re patient you can get a great deal on this brand (there are a number of similar models- a couple which incorporate 15" woofers) all of which are no longer made. See my Virtual System for pic
A friend runs his M60s with 93db, easily loading Silverline LaFolias and they sound great together. As others have said, a friendly impedance curve is quite important. Any >90db efficiency speaker that is mostly 8ohms or close will pair well.
IMHE, the Spletz Zeros add an audible whitish haze that detracts. I think that approach is like shoe-horning size 11 feet into size 10 shoes. After a while, it don't feel right! Cheers,
I drive Coincident Super Victory II speakers in a similar sized room with the M-60 and they do not break a sweat. The most important thing with the M-60s is a high impedance speaker that presents a benign load. My speakers are really 12 Ohm that drop down to a minimum of 8, and are 91.5 dB efficient. I think you could easily drive a speaker that is 89-90 db efficient IF the impedance curve is favorable. AudioKinesis speakers are built with Atma-Sphere amps in mind, so they are ideal. But there are lot of other good choices mentioned above. Just watch that impedance!
Sounds like you're from Sweden like me. I might miss the HEM audio show in Stockholm next week but if you live nearby and can go that might be a good time to listen to some different speakers and hear what the dealers recommend.
I think Orangutan O/96 could be a great pairing. Or one of the better Fyne speakers. I heard Lindström open baffle speakers driven by a tube amp and that made great sound also.
Elipsas are very good. Sashas are also quite good, but you need to listen to them on the Atma-Spheres. I have only heard the Sashas on solid state amps and don't know how the impedances match the Wilsons.
It is very likely if you like the sound of your speakers now , then a high quality tube amp will really make them sound even better. At least to me Mark Levinson is accurate and very polite… but doesn’t communicate the emotion of the music. It has been a long time since I have heard an AtmaSphere amp. But, since I moved to an all tube amp my life has never been the same. I am drawn in to the music.
If you like the Maggie sound (planar-magnetic drivers), but know that their 4 ohm-and-below impedance characteristic and very low sensitivity rules out the mighty-fine M60, there is an alternative: the Eminent Technolgy LFT-8b. 8 ohms full range, 11 ohms for the m-p drivers themselves (the 8b includes a sealed box 8" dynamic woofer) if bi-amped (two pair of binding posts are provided). Under $3,000/pr, another grand or so for the LFT-8c, which uses dipole woofers in place of the -8b's standard monopoles (as well as a different crossover and DSP bass management.
Very well reviewed in the UK mags, as well as by Robert E. Greene in TAS. VPI's Harry Weisfeld described the 8b as possessing the best midrange of any loudspeaker he has ever heard. Yet the ET LFT-8b continues to be ignored by the vast majority of audiophiles. ???!!!
Just about any speaker that has a flat impedance of at least 8 ohms or preferably 10-12 ohms to work best. Not many speakers have that type of impedance curve but look for a speaker that uses the PHY driver.
I tried the MA1s (bigger brother of M60) with 4 ohm speakers, including the top of the line (at the time) Dynaudio Consequence. No good.
8 ohm - yes quite good. Varying.
Spelz autoformers - I tried and was not convinced. Veils the image a bit and contradicts the OTL idea.
My current speakers have Impedance: 16 ohms nominal, stays between 13 and 17 ohms above the bass impedance peaks, and Efficiency: 92 dB/1 watt.
This is clearly health food for my Atma amps. Their sonic performance rises to new heights. But results could be suprising. If you can try with the Elipsas, great.
I currently use my M60s with Quad ESL 57 and 63 speakers. Previous to that I used AudioKinesis Jazz Modules. In fact someone is selling a pair on AC right now. It's a great match with the M60s, 92 dB, and impedance stays above 8 ohms. As for driving a 4 ohm speaker you can use a set of the Speltz autoformers between the speaker and the amp. Depending on how you configure them the amp will see a 2x, 3x, or 4x the speakers impedance.
Hi ghdprentice! Thanks.... I love the Elipsas SE. Today I have a Mark Levinson 532 with great dynamics (2 x 400 W) and that's why I am curious about the M60s ability to drive such a speaker....and they are only 4 ohms.
Typically most folks build their system around the sound of their speakers. Sonus Faber speakers have a unique, natural, and musical sound. They sound particularly good driven with tubes. Do you like the sound of the speakers?
I have Sonus Faber Amati Traditional… I am driving them with Audio Research Reference 160s operated in triode mode, so 60 watts per channel. They will play MUCH louder (without loosing dynamics) than I can stand it.
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