Speaker distance

Let me get this straight…Goldenear Triton Ones, 9' apart, 9' to the listening chair?

Goldenear Triton Ones. 9' apart. 9' to the listening chair.

Goldenear Triton Ones. 9' apart. 9' to the listening chair.

Thanks, alkaloid & sebrof. Very interesting guy.

I see your Isotek CD and raise you two XLO Test CDs. Get the original. Get the one the pros use. It doesn’t cost an arm and a leg, either.

Thanks Sebrof just discovered the insert link button.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXohzklfwPs



This might make it easier.
btw: Just click on the Insert URL icon

Edit - Here is the short version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itZGbEdGF_Y

I subscribed to this guys channel and don’t know who he is but he has a boatload of info thoroughly explaining tons of complicated stuff. Love the explaination on high res files.

You got the wrong CD, Geoff. The one I refer to is the IsoTek The Ultimate Sysytem Set-up Disc, which is something of a misnomer, since it ONLY deals with speaker setup. It has 10 tracks, not including introductions, devoted to speaker placement.

Where did you get your copy?

The Isotek CD does not (rpt not) contain a speaker placement track. Nice try.

I bet the IsoTek CD is better. ;^)

Participating in these forums; You begin to realize that some things need to be repeated.

People seem not to read the entire post, still want to hang onto their beliefs, some other mathematical formula ie: Cardas formula, are just plain lazy, keep surfing the forums for answers they want to hear.  Ears and Effort are key.

So, Yes Geoffkait; there is an echo here. Needs to be repeated for many.
 
Like voting in Chicago; Early and often.

Best

Is there an echo in here? I already said what’s required is a comprehensive program of the XLO Test CD, room treatments and tweaks. Obviously things change for speaker placement as things progress. At any point in time the track on the XLO CD, all things being equal, can determine the ABSOLUTE BEST locations, whereas other even very good methods can only find local maximums.

The XLO CD will get you very close. Room treatments, A mirror, laser and effort will make the final difference.

+1 @smer319 

@tomcarr, I believe that is the most common convention in manufacturers' documentation; but it surly is counter-intuitive. ;^) 

@2channel8, unfortunately it is confusing. I learned the wall you are facing, the wall behind the speakers is the FRONT wall. The rear wall is the one behind you. 

Tom

Every speaker manufacturer has a different design, Driver materials, toe in and raking requirements. One must consult the designer to really understand the strengths and the negatives of the particular model of speaker. Some things are simple fundamentals for all of us at Sunny's, they are that both speakers must have the same angle in raking. this insures that both left and right speakers have the drivers firing equally if it's a one box speaker. This is a good place to start. Then one must find the rooms zone of neutrality. Mark this zone. then start working carefully documenting the progress of what you hear. This allows you to go back and verify what you heard. this allows you to grade where your speaker sounds best in the said room with the exact gear you own. Figures , charts and numbers cannot be uniform as rooms are all different, flooring materials affect speakers too. Most of all make it fun, involve a group of friends and share your passion. It's all for the music. Keep listening.

I'm getting a little confused. It seems to me that some posters are referring to the wall behind the speakers as the back wall and some are referring to it as the front wall. 

Also, wouldn't rear ported speakers require a much different approach than front ported or unported? Canton recommends that their front ported towers be placed with the REAR of the speaker between 12" and 20" from the wall behind them.  

unreceievdeogma-  I have been playing with placement with my Altec Valencia 846's. I tried a basic 40/40/20.... speakers pulled out 40% of room length, listener 40% from speaker, with 20% remaining length behind listener. This didn't work at all for the Altec's, which I believe shine with plenty of distance between listener and speaker. That 40/40/20 had me way too close in my 23 + foot long room. I tried the Verity formula noted earlier in this thread, and liked the result from the room width divided by 3.6, which situated my speakers 41" from the side walls. That was using my 148" width of course. Now I'm going to play with the rest of that formula which uses the ceiling height to determine how far speakers are pulled out from rear wall. In my case my 8 ft ceiling dictates they be pulled out 4.96 ft from rear wall. Currently in my (23+ ft) room, I'm not too far removed from the suggested 4.96... Should be interesting, but so far very positive going to the 41" from side wall....I had them 44" from side wall before I began playing with the Verity formula. Thanks for posting that. I always enjoyed the Parsifal, and never noticed the Verity formula. Perhaps it wasn't available way back then.

Heh-heh

Speakers on ends of long hallway 37 feet apart with listening  position on a Viennese Hassock between them in what basically is a tunnel covered with animal trophy heads with hissing gaslights and locked shoji doors. Great for those shoe gaze parties featuring people claiming to be your cousins.

Magnepan 1.7i's-7' apart, 40" from back wall, 72" from each side wall, 12' from listening position, tweeter on outside, slight toe in.
MMG's as side surround (for multi channel music and movies)-24" from side walls, 10' from listening position. 
9 foot ceilings , no "commercial" room treatments

Quad ESL 57.
6’6" apart from panel centers.
Toed in so centers point at ears.
(36" inside from front wall.
47" outside from front wall.)
>36" from side walls.
7’2" to ears from speaker centers.
18" custom stands. Center of speaker panels level with ears.

Heh-heh

Vandersteen Treo CTs, 50" from the left and right walls, 36" from the front wall, per the odd-number-multiple computation in Vandersteen's literature. No toe-in. My ears are 8' from the speakers. The room is 15' long and 12'6" wide, with a pitched ceiling averaging 12' high.

Moving these 65-pounders on their three-each spikes isn't simple by yourself, but I've found that inserting a couple of 2x2 skids under each one makes it much safer.

I started with my Canton Ergo 1002DCs 8' apart, 20" off the front wall. The Left was about 5' from a sidewall with an upright piano against it. The right is about 20' from it's sidewall (actually closer to the left wall and piano) with other irregularities in the room including an unfinished basement "ceiling". My seat, a rolling chair, moves along a mid-line I've drawn on the concrete floor; between 8' (96") and 81" back from a line connecting the speaker faces. very slight toe-in.  It sounded very good to me.

Then I got a CD that guides you in placing your speakers with voice and castanet sound effects. The results were surprising and made a huge difference in balancing the sound stage and other SQ facets. I won't go into all the details, because I doubt anyone is in a space like mine, but both my speakers are now toed towards the left wall and everything sounds fantastic. Shortly before I got the CD I had upgraded from a Denon DL-301 mkII to a Hana SL. Re-positioning the speakers a difference much, much larger than the new cartridge did! Best $20 I ever spent on my systems! 

Khorns 16 feet, but I want 30. Looking for a home with or where I can build an auditorium sized room. That will solve the majority of audio issues creating considerably less.

Legacy Audio Focus HD speakers 9.5 feet center to center apart and 11 feet from the listening couch. Speakers are toed in to center of listening couch. Listening room dimensions are: 22'x12'. Speakers are out 3' from the wall behind them. 

7 feet apart, 10 ft to listening position

@dr-john What about the toe in of the Sophias? I tied many positions, and the best sounding one appeared to be not the recommended (by wilson) heavy toe in. What is your experience? 

I would say “it depends...” but as a general rule, I divide the distance between the two walls on either side by three, mark the two spots, stick the speakers there and then move them back ‘n forth until I got the spots.

For example, a 21 ft wide room would have the speakers start at 7 ft apart, then go to maybe 8 ft, maybe (likely) 9 ft, maybe 6.5 ft.

Too far far apart and you end up with a hole in the center.

Also at least 4 to 5 ft from the rear walls.

Talkin’ ‘bout my Altec 604Cs.

My two cents.

alkaloid
Geoffkait, is the signal both in and out of phase pink noise?

No

Where can I buy this test disc?

ebay

Dynaudio C1 Confidence Platinum 
6 1/2 F center to center .
2 1/2 F away back wall 
Room treatment as well .

Geoffkait, is the signal both in and out of phase pink noise? Where can I buy this test disc? I am using multichannel 5.1 and have 4 ceiling speakers for Atmos. My preamp has a room correction software built in and has a test where you can see the plots pre and post and can move the speakers in real time. I wish there was a way to find the best location in home theater usage. I have always thought of remote controlled speaker bases that can move the speakers while you sit in your listening position. Also it could be integrated with the room correction so the software could move the speakers while sending the test signal. I am using Anthem AVM 60 and the correction is called ARC. I agree with your idea that there is only one correct position just wish it could get done by the equipment with built in software. Very interesting DIY room treatments on You Tube.

Spendor sp100s, 6 feet apart, my ears around 3 feet in front, strong toe in so I can just see the inside plane of the speakers. The Spendor’s are way out in the room, with about 8 feet behind them to the back wall. REL G1 sub in the right back corner. I have been listening near field like this for the past 15 years, and it’s great. On good recordings, they disappear and project sound all around me, even behind me. 

Audiophile nearfield desktop....  about 38 inches apart.   Audience 1+1V2's. What I hear does not sound small...  Just to scale. 

Dedicated room: use the 1/3 methodology, 1/3 length of room for distance of speaker to back wall; 1/3 length of room for distance of chair to wall. Then I used cardas calculations for distance from side walls. Fine tune toe in.
room tuning devices applied as well as bass traps in corners 

It seems to me that the ideal distance between the speakers varies from one recording to another depending on the mix and the instrumentation. I notice with solo piano and with string quartets that no one setup satisfies every recording. So I try to find a position that works most of the time. Maybe we need moving sidewalks with remote controls that would allow us to easily place the speakers close together for say, a solo guitar and far apart for an orchestra or big band.  

I agree. My listening chair is on wheels and I can easily move a little forwards/backwards (whilst seated) to achieve the best position. 

Wilson Sophia 3's -- positioned according to the 'Golden Triangle'  - an equilateral triangle between speakers and listening position. Magic.

About 7.5' between the speakers and 11' from listener to speakers..

Another system is set up for about 6' apart and 8' distance.

Six Feet apart center to center 
and 8 Feet listening position 

The Denon CD does not explain (verbally or documentation) how to use the out of phase track. So your point is well taken. 

The BIG advantage to the XLO Test CD OUT OF PHASE TRACK is that it’s specifically for locating the speaker positions and is explained as you go along by the guy on the track as well in the booklet. It’s not obvious how to use the OUT OF PHASE TRACK so I can’t recommend a generic out of phase track unless that particular CD also EXPLAINS how to use the track for setting up speakers. If it does, I’m down. On the other hand I just explained how to use an OUT OF PHASE TRACK so you might be good to go. The IN PHASE Track is used to determine if the system is actually in correct phase/polarity only. The OUT OF PHASE track is for speaker placement.

Re the OPs addendum, Jim Smith's book Get Better Sound might prove invaluable...
And the XLO test CD...