As the OP mentioned, he’s got a 60-day return window. If he does look for advice on a DAC upgrade after keeping the N200, it would mean that he has not only found value in the improvement the N200 made, and it is eye-opening enough for him to be curious and explore the potential of what other DACs may bring to continue the path to improvement.
If the streamer is not worth keeping, he’ll send it back and maybe try something different (maybe not even another streamer). Either way, there will be first hand learning and experience gained in the works, which makes it worth the effort.
We often frown at the idea of continued investment, but these are the types of moments that can also make this hobby quite exciting and fun!
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We all hear differently and have different priorities. There is no absolute answer here just an expression of preferences. Having said that I am in agreement with those that find the source-DAC combination out of whack here.
I have no doubt that the system will sound excellent. If it’s the best allocation of resources is a secondary consideration and one that the OP professes not to be a consideration.
I suspect it won’t be long before the OP is requesting advice about a more upscale DAC to pair with the new streamer
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I have a N200. It's a great unit. I am using it with the excellent sounding Lab 12 DAC 1 Reference . I chose that DAC over several that were up to $2k more because I love the way it sounds. Plus, if I ever upgrade that DAC the N200 will not be the bottleneck
Enjoy
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So, what DAC do you all recommend with a $6300 streamer? Mola Mola, Holo May, PS Audio, Weiss? Obviously, down the road, the OP will "eventually'' upgrade his DAC to one more cost commensurate with the streamer. That might happen this year, or 5 years from now, but yep. He will likely do so.
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Five years, from 2017-18 when the B. DAC3 was reviewed and measured by Stereophile and ASR, to 2022-23, is a significant product cycle for DACs. The premium-priced DACs that received favorable reviews back then may not even stack up well against modern, lower-priced DACs.
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I use an older Auralic Aries G1 streamer with an outboard DAC. The lightning DS app, while it has it's learning curve works quite well but my only comparisons are too Bluesound Node and Aurender n100 w/Conductor, I prefer the Auralic Lightning DS app.
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The original DAC 3 was an excellent DAC for its price point. It is very resolving, and should be capable of rendering what the N200 brings to the table with no issues.
The only thing I would caution is that the DAC 3 is very, very linear, and the difference from going from the CXN V2 to the Aurender is that you may lose a tad bit of harmonics. As the CXN V2 is both warm and unresolving in comparison, the N200 is also very linear, but it is also much more revealing, and transparent. The space of the soundstage is so many levels higher than the CXN V2.
If you do need more harmonics or warmth after breaking in the N200, realize that it is the job of the source to render as clearly as possible, and for the rest of the system to shape the sonics to your preferences. If you instead seek a warmer or richer sounding streamer, try Innuos, but it won’t be as revealing as the N200, and the soundstage will shrink.
I congratulate the you on the N200. While it is a larger investment than many other things in your system, the quality of your source is something that should be worthy investing in, and it will open the pathways for other opportunities for your system to continue to flourish.
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Stereophile evaluation of Benchmark DAC3:
“Highly recommended for Class A+ in Stereophile’s Recommended Components.”
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Aurender N200 is a great streamer but is the value commensurate with the return?
Return meaning the most beneficial change in SQ. I was in the same boat, Node 2i into a Chord Hugo TT 2 into an M scaler. Everyone saying change the streamer.
My decision was up my DAC to a Chord Dave and the a DAC less streamer. After a serious deep dive these were the choices. Lumin U2, DCS network bridge, Aurender N10 (or 200), Inuous Zen MK III and Hifi Rose R130. All good with different pros and cons, options etc. Really can’t go wrong with any of these as a streamer but if you’re looking for an increase in sonic quality look to your DAC first.
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I have had a few streamers, the only one that has Stuck is the Magna HiFi Mano Ultra mkIII with separate Farad power supply…there is a bunch of software options, I use the Ropieee XL…for 1800$ It’s been flawless,
‘out of the Netherlands…
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Read this review and do some additional research; it will soon become apparent that his DAC is likely the next weak link, restraining N200 from revealing its full potential.
https://goldensound.audio/2022/04/06/benchmark-dac3-b-review-good-ish/
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@rvpiano
I don't think you can go wrong with a 60 day return policy. You probably know this, but you might experiment with different cables before you make a final judgment. I don't have real expensive cables, but I can hear differences. I might have misjudged my streamer with certain cables.
I'm using a $3649 retail streamer (Innuos Zen Mk3) and a $1650 Gustard R26 dac. I bought the streamer slightly used for $2000. Do I need a better dac? I don't know. The Gustard is pretty darn good for the price.
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@soix
Lol!!!!! Thank you so much for that clarification!
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@mdalton If the OP doesn’t hear a difference I’ll completely believe him as I said, but as he has good ears and a good system I highly doubt that will be the case. And yes, if someone can’t hear differences between streamers, like yourself, I do assume that either the system or listener’s hearing is compromised. In your case it appears to be the latter but whatever. Again, we’ll see.
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@soix
That’s awesome, and really ballsy! Then which of your many personalities said this, in response to a member not even named MDAlton, just 7 days ago:
Streamers don’t have a sound and I agree software would be the focus.
Well that’s just completely untrue, poor advice, and the words of someone with little/no experience comparing streamers and/or has a system or ears incapable of revealing the differences. Both sound and software are vitally important, and discount either at your peril.
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The N200 was on my short list. Ended up with the Innuos Pulse due to the preferred user app. I purchased used for $2500 and added the Innuos Phoenix USB for $2000 which essentially upgrade my DAC (PS Audio Direct Stream mk 1) and and the Streamer. Lots of great used deals available.
I couldn't be happier with the result.
Started out with the same Cambridge unit. Returned it. Node N130 upgrade with LPS. In 2nd system. Then Eversolo DMP-A6. Decent with a great app, but wanted more. Selling it. Tried a HiFi Rose RS130. Returned it. Too much base boost after 100 hours burn in. Tried the Pulse and loved it. The itch is scratched.
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and if you don’t hear a difference, you’ll be accused of having inadequate hearing, an insufficiently resolving system, or both.
@mdalton Absolutely not, at least not by me. If the OP doesn’t hear an improvement I’d be pretty shocked but I’ll believe him 100%. Hey, he has a 60-day return period so we’ll see, but I’d bet big $$$ that N200 goes nowhere.
And as far as his Benchmark DAC being a mismatch, perhaps that may be so at some level, but it’s sure as hell good and resolving enough to tell him if the new streamer sounds better to him or not, and if it does he reaps those benefits and can upgrade the DAC later if he chooses to get even more. And maybe his DAC just sounds “right” to him, and if that’s the case and sounds even better with the Aurender then who cares how much the DAC costs? I prefer my $3k speakers to plenty of others that cost more than three times as much, so cost is not an end all, be all indicator. And I applaud the OP for choosing his gear by using his ears as the final arbiter. Oh the horror!
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OP, I absolutely agree, but that cuts both ways. Just because a streamer is cheaper doesn’t necessarily mean it doesn’t sound as good as an expensive one. That’s been my consistent point on this and many other threads. And I’ve pulled data and measurements - yes, science - in support of this proposition.
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Caphill.
Again, rating equipment solely by relative cost isn’t a foolproof method.
‘There are so many exceptions.
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m…yup. You’ve done that aplenty.
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Good choice! I also have an N200. I was tired of the constant upgrade game and wanted to get more of an end game streamer. I didn't care about the OCXO of the N20 since it wouldn't benefit me. I only stream USB.
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Agreed with mdalton. A $6300 streamer paired with $1900 DAC won’t make any sense and is disproportionate. The OP will have to upgrade his DAC as well. And of course we don’t know the rest of the OP’s equipments : speakers, amp, preamp, cablings, etc.
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@audphile1
Whoa!!!! But I’m ok if the administrators don’t take that down. To quote Maya Angelou: “When someone shows you who they are, believe them.”
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Despite all this hullabaloo, I have a 60 days return privilege to reach a decision on whether it’s worth the expense
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Unless you just want to be a dick all the time.
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Mdalton I do not look for validation. I chose the N200 based on the research, feedback, design philosophy and Aurender’s reputation for quality of their products and customer support. Hearing the improvements it brought to my system was really shocking.
I would be perfectly fine if rvpiano went with a WiiM Pro. I provided my opinion and that’s the only thing I can do.
No one here knows what the next step in the upgrade path for the OP may be. You’re judging someone else’s choices based purely on your perception at that given moment.
I honestly don’t get what your problem is.
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Go for it. I get it. Sometimes we just want to spend money to make ourselves feel better. But keep in mind that even a dealer has advised you against that purchase! One of my favorite aphorisms: “The human psyche has an infinite capacity for self delusion.” In other words, we can, and often do, talk ourselves into almost anything. My intent was not to upset you; you did ask for others’ thoughts in a public forum after all. And so I’ve offered mine. It goes without saying that you can take or ignore anyone’s advice.
Regardless, as I indicated previously, I think you have a cool system.
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@rvpiano, the Moon (Simaudio) MiND 2 I simply a steamer (no DAC etc). I'd recommend it very highly indeed.
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The proposition that you judge something solely by its cost is questionable at best. Probably by that logic I should have bought the N150. I’m assured by someone whose opinion I respect, that I will hear a significant difference between the streamers, even on my meager set.
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@audphile1
Surprise! Am gonna have to disagree with respect to the soundness of the decision. You - and others - are applauding the OP for spending more on his streamer than he has spent on any other component in his system, indeed more than the total of his DAC, amp and preamp combined. I know you personally feel validated because he chose the same piece of gear that you own, but in what alternate universe, given his system, is that a sound decision?
Don't get me wrong, I love his stuff, it’s a cool system. But even if I believe a $10k speaker cable sounded better than a $1000 cable, I would never advise another member to make that purchase if he had a $10k (or $20k or $30k) system. That would not be a sound decision. And I certainly wouldn’t applaud him if he went ahead and did it anyway. Your help is appreciated. But all you’re doing is providing an opinion.
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Mdalton - a sound decision is made by an individual based on feedback from others who have experience with the item in question, research conducted and the available budget. Your help is appreciated. But all you’re providing is simply an opinion. No one is obligated to follow your direction.
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lol! and if you don’t hear a difference, you’ll be accused of having inadequate hearing, an insufficiently resolving system, or both. Good luck!
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Congrats on your excellent new streamer! Please report back with your impressions that I suspect will ruffle the feathers here among those who think streamers don’t make much difference or can’t make a difference with your DAC. Of course they’ll just say it’s you fooling yourself into thinking the Aurender sounds better if that’s your conclusion, but your thoughts will be interesting either way.
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@mdalton I cannot speak for anyone who has disposable income to procure 'expensive' gear for hobby or entertainment. However, compared to the Aurender N30, which costs $25k, the N200 is more affordable for those who can afford it. Perhaps sometime soon, the Op will jump on the stage here and talk about upgrading his DAC. Wait and see.
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@lanx0003
I don’t know man. Many of my posts on this forum are intended to help others make sound decisions when they purchase gear, regardless of how much they can spend. I will admit, it does upset me when I see someone convinced to spend a lot more money than I think they need to, particularly when the component is on essentially only an accessory, just because a couple of other members convince him that it will change his life. A $6300 streamer with a $1900 DAC? Maybe you’re wired differently than I am.
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@mdalton Over the course of 3 hours, you went from the N200 being over your budget to ordering one?
Hey, the key phrase is "I can afford it." Life is short, and what is money for if not to enjoy it? You weren't born with it, and you can't take it to the grave.
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Rvpiano - congrats! You won’t be disappointed. Should be a very nice match with your DAC and a nice upgrade over the Cambridge!
Keep us posted.
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@rvpiano
I’m speechless. Over the course of 3 hours, you went from the N200 being over your budget to ordering one? To quote Chief Brody: “You’re gonna need a bigger boat.” (As in, better spend a lot more on a DAC, lol!)
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Based on hicamore’s experience, I’ve ordered the N200.
I didn’t want to pay that much, but since I can afford it, I think I’m better off with the more expensive unit. I think my system is good enough to profit from it.
btw, I already own an excellent Benchmark DAC to pair with it.
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Metrum Acoustics Ambre is also a dedicated streamer only for around $1k
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@rvpiano
i would also suggest auditioning the Lumin U1 mini or U2 mini (ideally with linear PS). Excellent SQ and build quality.
if you’re on Tidal, then it works with Tidal Connect. With Qobuz, you have to use Lumin app, which isn’t great, but it’s not bad either.
Best, JAMES
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oh dear. You have a $1900 DAC - not a criticism, btw, that’s still a lot of $; 3 of my 4 DACs cost less, two of them considerably so. So I wouldn’t think you’d want to spend $6300 or even $3500 on a streamer. And btw, Benchmark is on record as saying that, with their DACs, streamers will not make a difference (due to their filtering and other technology).
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Two I am considering that stream only (no dac) are the Auralic S1 and the Rose RS130.
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+1, @blisshifi…best recommendation so far, but and that’s a big BUT. Is @rvpiano open to learning a new App user interface and more importantly, is he able to discern differences between streamers given a very neutral and equally sterile sounding Benchmark DAC?
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@rvpiano Looking at the level of your system components, I think the Aurender N150 is more fitting a streamer than the N200. While the N200 is a considerable step forward, the N150 is also a considerable step forward over the CXN V2. I’m both a Cambridge and Aurender dealer and speak from experience.
Also, while the N150 can accommodate storage, it doesn’t come with any, so you’re not paying for it.
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PS Audio Air Lens or Musica Pristina A Capella 3. Both are great stand alone streamers
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Not wanting to whip a dead horse, but regardless of what streamer you buy, consider that in most cases, you need to connect it to an external DAC via an asynchronous connection (USB, I2S) in order for the likely better clock in the external DAC to do its thing instead of relying on whatever clock chip architecture is in the streamer. I agree to a large extent with @mdalton above. Streamers can and do make a difference, but that difference pales compared to what DAC you choose, its power supply, its analog output section, and then the rest of your system.
Also look to how good any software is in a streamer. If it isn’t easy or even fun to use, you will hate it. Does it integrate well with whatever streaming service you use? Does it offer say Tidal Connect so you can control it directly out of Tidal’s app to pass the stream directly to the streamer and not have it go through your phone? I keep hearing that Qobuz will have a "connect app" soon.
Some upper tier streamers might have superb hardware and engineering but be hampered by a lousy app. Makes me think that they should partner with low cost WiiM and license a fork of their app instead.
Good luck.
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Reasonably priced options:
iFi Zen Streamer, Pro-Ject S2 Ultra Streambox, Primare NP5 Prisma, Volumio Rivo.
Am big proponent of putting money where it matters most, which is DAC, not streamer. Here’s a link to a recent thread where competing perspectives on this issue are discussed:
recent streamer thread
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Some great suggestions ... let us know what you come up with!
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