Should Amps be plugged into a power conditioner?

@bluorion 

Since integrated amplifiers include a power amplifier, then this discussion would be relevant, but I never had hum of any sort prior to using a conditioner.  A conditioner can change/improve the musical presentation and further quiet the background…but it isn’t an overt hum that most of us are concerned with..

no

My system is much improved running all of it, including ARC Classic 60, through a PS Audio PowerPlant 12. Bass, soundstage, detail all better, no question. And it's all protected from surge. 

@jsalerno277 Most power conditioners do not provide surge protection - make sure what you have is truly protecting your equipment.

Remember that it's very important to have the power amp plugged in someplace or it simply won't work at all. 

Just also mention, in Oz we are 240V, so compared say with the US, gear doesn’t draw as much current. I feel that this is factor that is rarely taken into consideration in these discussions. Like it or not, we have better “power” at 240V.

@immatthewj Not really. 

Power conditioners need to be rated so they will deliver enough power to the amplifier. They are usually rated in Watts. In any case, they need to deliver enough power for the dynamic peaks an amp will draw as well as the constant power needed. That being said, I have used a cheaper solution in a Tripplite power conditioner that regulates to 115v if the incoming line power is 85v to 145v. It also has Radio frequency filters. I currently use a Furman power strip ahead of the condioner.   I have used this product for decades with no sound degridation. I replace the condtioner afer 10 years. Anyone saying power conditioning is not helpful does not know how dirty power coming into your home is. Appliances kick in momentarily dipping the voltage. High and low frequency noise is distributed though the grid. This noise wears on power supply components. An oscilloscope will reveal all of the dirty signals propagating in the power. My last amp was 45yrs old before it was retired.

I use a ZeroSurge on my Pass XA60 mono blocks.  ASR demonstrated that signal in was no different from signal out. I take this to mean no harm, just safe power.  I like safe power.

"As with all the other power tweaks, filters and cables, no fidelity improvement is to be had with 2R15W. It doesn't "clean" the AC in any way that I can measure. And as a result, real-life testing with an amplifier shows the same performance with and without. On the other hand, it is a major sigh of relief that despite pulling some 700+ watts out of the box, it had essentially no impact on the amplifier performance. 

Where this leaves us is that if you like its flavor of surge protection, you can proceed to use it for that purpose and not worry about power loss.

I can't recommend the ZeroSurge 2R15W as a fidelity improvement device. As a surge protector, going by what they say it does, it seems like a better bet than many cheap solutions.

I think one of the most beneficial aspects of a Power conditioner is that it protects the hardware. I can highly recommend what I have used. A relatively cheap Tripp Lite Power conditioner. After a thunderstorm I see the low  voltage light turned on the device or the high voltage light turned on depending on the situation.  It is compensating for the incorrect voltage which is a good thing.  Also, I would expect noise on the line under those conditions. With either light indicating a problem with the line, and the device compensating, I have not heard any sonic degradation. Thank you.

I plug my amps into Monster power conditioners that help with power outages, which is commonplace where I live. No hum. And thankfully I’ve never had gear affected by power surges. 

Shunyata Denali 6000S-V2 all Shunyata Apha V2 power cords, amp is a Aestheix Mimas, no issues with dynamics. 

Just curious regarding 'headroom' (and potentially limiting it using a power conditioner): can someone link to articles where they measured the actual draw of (high power) amps? I would assume the outpout power demand peaks are very short and should be 'covered' by large capacitors, with the resulting input power demand (draw) peaks being in a range that a power conditioner should NOT limit. 

I need to read up on the limitation of my simple and cheap conditioner, but envision a real world test: my air compressor (rated at 3.7 kW or 32A at 115V) draws a LOT (i.e. needs a LOT of head room), and its headroom IS noticeably limited (light bulbs dim when in DRAWS). When connecting it my conditioner, any 'headroom limiting' would be evident by the lights bulbs dimming a lot more and longer. 

Reverse test: my ICE design sub amp has a 1.325kVA rating for the transformer. Transformer power output is supplemented by a capacitor rated for 10000 mF at 160 VDC. The rated power consumption listed on the back plate for the amplifier is 1200W at 115V. That amp driven hard does NOT result in 'dimming' (my visual sign for 'headroom limiting'). Maybe a bit more of this helps with headroom?

But again, someone surely has measured such 'headroom limiting' from the power source. Sounds to me more like an issue of the power supply of the amp not having sufficient power STORAGE to cover the peak demand?  Reference the car guys with their gigantic power storage to overcome 'headroom limitation from power source'. 

Interesting. My 1974 Accuphase M-60 monoblocs specifically state "pug directly into a wall outlet". The Accuphase hardware has built in surge protection and power conditioning. Power surges, which have occurred here, and are likely more often with the Shakey California power grid, I would hope most if not all new high-end hardware has built in surge protection.

The issue I do have is RT speaker hum from my 1968 Sansui 3000A. This unit has been rebuilt and initially did not have any hum, but at first it was not into a battery backup surge protector as it is now. I have not read in the Sansui manual where the Sansui is similarly protected as is the Accuphase hardware. Later today the Sansui goes directly into a wall outlet, the other stuff will remain attached to the battery backup, will see what happens... or is it a bad resistor?

With a correctly designed power conditioner like a transformer based unit, which actually takes you off the grid, you are much better off plugging your amplifiers into the power conditioner.. This type of power conditioner does not limit dynamics at all, as long as you get the proper size transformer for your system. As a dealer, we have tried many power conditioners, but the ones that we sell are very effective.

That being said, if you live in the middle of nowhere, and have no electrical noise on your line, you can get very nice sound by plugging your amplifiers directly into the wall.

Of course you can and should use a power conditioner but it does depend on which one. I can recommend the Audience power conditioners or at a less expensive price the Puritan PSM156. Which does DC removal as well.

The main reason I don't think amps should ever be plugged into a power conditioner is that I enjoy having them repaired after lightning strikes.

Packing up my 60 to 150 lb. beast, putting in the car, paying for shipping, waiting on the techs to diagnose and get me a repair estimate is something I really look forward to.

I especially look forward to getting a temporary amp, hauling it into my rack or it's place on the floor and then removing it and replacing it with the repaired unit.

Putting the repaired unit back into my rack makes me feel like I just got a brand new amplifier, and yet I only paid half that in repair and shipping bills!!

A total win in terms of money and effort for me.

The main reason I don't think amps should ever be plugged into a power conditioner is that I enjoy having them repaired after lightning strikes.

@erik_squires  , are you making a case for surge protection or for power conditioners?

I use a PS Audio P-12 PowerPlant on a dedicated circuit for my Pass Labs 150.8. There is a noticeable improvement in soundstage depth when in use. I tried a number of “conditioners” and all had a detrimental effect as compared to the PowerPlant and direct connection to the wall. 

It depends… it depends on the “conditioner” it depends on real world needs. I live in Colorado where lightning is very real, even in winter at times… (thunder snow) all of my gear is plugged into some sort of protected system. The big stuff a Shinyata Hydra AV and the rest into a Furman unit. Unlike @erik_squires  I don’t particularly enjoy cooked electronics! ;-)

I’ve done direct wall to power box comparisons and find zero SQ difference between the two. In a perfect world I create a dedicated circuit with whole house protection. That is on the list of things to do this summer. Even then though, I’d probably still use the Shunyata just to have the backup.

Hey @geof3 - I’ve researched and written on the subject of whole-house vs. point of use surge protectors.

TL;DR - Keep your point of use protectors even after getting a whole house unit, the main reason is the high (~ 600V) let-through voltages most whole house units have. Whole house makers and the NEC do not recommend substituting the whole house units for surge protectors for sensitive electronics, but in fact recommend you use both.

Whole house units are recommended in large part to protect things that can’t be protected otherwise like fire alarms, house automation, GFCI outlets, and major appliances but also the internal house wiring.

Living in South Carolina I have lost 1 laptop I left charging overnight without a surge strip. 

I wouldn't put a conditioner in front of my amps.

Though I do have dedicated lines, as well as a whole house surge protector at the box, and I own my house, so YMMV.

Bob

Even though I did not find reduced dynamics with my Everest, I just put together a battery inverter system, and the dynamics, energetics and bass control are on a much different level than when the Everest was plugged into the wall. I still plug everything into the Everest, but the Everest is now plugged into the inverter. A major improvement to my system.. everything about the sound presentation has been improved and I didn’t know that it needed improving.

This was a really illuminating discussion.  I have always had a McIntosh power amp (currently a MC 312) plugged into a Furman Elite 15 power conditioner and never thought much about it.  After reading this discussion, I tried plugging the amp into the wall and it does indeed seem much happier -- and as a result, so am I. Thank you everyone who participated in this discussion.  (Now, I just have to keep an eye out for errant thunderstorms like we had in the Northeast last week).

@bigboypete 

Congratulations.
 

remember when I did exactly as you. Same result.

Then I put in a direct line and an even bigger improvement. 

If it's a good conditioner then why not? Mine is...and it sounds great.