I got 2 of these from Amazon...careful that free returns are applicable. I charged them up, turned them on and holy moly.....they do help with my system. What I hear is clarity....space between instruments, a definite difference in upright and electric bass, wider soundstage...you know...all the good stuff. At first I thought it might be increased brightness, but no....it is still the same in that regard. I still can't believe it, and will listen again tomorrow (saved the packaging for the return)...but today, I'm about to keep them.
Yes, there are some people who believe in science and physics and not voodoo.
Myself i trust science but i dont "believe" in science to begins with...It is not necessary to believe in something that is repeatable, i trust that it will be possible to repeat the experiment...It is not always the case, because of the indefinite numbers of factors at play, then believing here is the most sure way to be deceived by "science"... I will not go further...Scientists dont believe first and last in scientific law they prefer to test them daily and use them or trespass them ....There are limits to their test also and they try to go further....It is called history of science...
And like said someone more wise than you and me: «History of science is science» Goethe
The difference is i dont use my take on science for an alibi to my laziness or my curiosity in audio....I try to think without narrow mind with science but also with an open mind out of my limited understanding.... Most phenomena are anyway unexplained by science at all....Are you even conscious of that?
By the way before insulting me, learn how to read my COMPLETE post before interpreting it... There are 3 citations and only one from Groucho... Then put the 3 citations in your head and process the three together to understand what is the meaning intended by me about science...3 things simultaneously in your head are too much? Quit thinking about science and try sport... 😁😊
Interesting. I thought the SR devices do not affect the sound or the listening environment, they only relax the listener
Before answering a post it is better to read the context of the thread and the other posts of the poster you anwered to...
I even suggest a precise EXPERIMENT of my own, with repeatable results, demonstrating the opposite of what you think about this only "subjective relaxing" effect +a placebo effect....
And we are all happy to know that you are not like us a gullible one....You spare 20 dollars congratulations!
There are people who are not gullible or naive and can realize when they are being conned.
I have no noise in ANY system when I route everything correctly.. I don’t have inherent noise. If I did I would fix the piece of equipment.. Pretty simple for me.. My equipment doesn’t make NOISE it makes music... I quit having that problem 45 years ago..
Proper ROUTING, goes a long ways.. Be careful with cables... I move cables I pay.. simple.. 15-45 minutes. A warm up time always fixes mine.. A cable swap that's new, 24 hours, used a hour or two.. BUT the first 15 minutes more so than anything.. Pretty subtle after the first 24. TT cable use to drive me nuts.. The new din 5s.. RCAs are so much easier..
I was hoping you could provide more of an argument than just a bunch of double talk and mysticism cloaked in bad grammar an improper English, but such is not the case. Schumann Resonance is well defined phenomenon and easily understood, but unfortunately, these devices can't possibly produce what they portend to, all evidence is against that argument. You can try to make the diluted assertions that you don't understand (or care) how they produce an affect, but the most you can come up with is your personal experience which is subjective, unverifiable, and open to suspicion. I would call it a pseudo-science (that which cannot be disproved) but it doesn't even rise to that level, it is just the rantings of a highly disorganized mind. Throw in a few irrelevant quotes a bunch of disclaimers and some pious indignation and that pretty much covers your position. My intention was not to insult you, just point out where you erred in your analysis or judgement. It goes beyond hypocrisy to insult and attack the messenger while not adding anything to the coherent conversation. To borrow one of your tactics: "Never argue with a sick mind" .....Joe Walsh I wish you good luck and good mental health.
I was hoping you could provide more of an argument
FIRST- the effect of the S.G. in an audio system IS OR IS NOT related to the precise set of frequencies called Schumann resonance; i dont know, i doubt that a 10 bucks chinese S.G. is very precise and anything i read was not clear about that effect of Schuman resonance in audio save the publicity to sells costly models... I dont bought costly "tweaks" at all anyway...I prefer homemade one of my own creation or modified cheap devices...
SECOND- you insult me already in your first post about gullible people and con man, when i only speak about a 20 bucks fun and interesting experiment..
THIRD- i already precisely described, in the post preceding your first here, the precise audible acoustic effect of the S.G. in my room for my ears in relation to a very precise acoustical experience and objective concept: the " listener envelopment" sound experience... I even proposed already a simple set of experiments repeatable with precise effects to verify the existence of an objective effect by the S.G. Is it not better than argument for or against?
This is not perhaps "arguments" like arguments in pitch sale for S.G. costly model, this is only precise acoustic concept and precise experiments i propose to the reader...I dont have "argument", no, we dont argue here, we try experimenting and perhaps ,after that, we try to describe the acoustical experience with the precise acoustical concept you seems to not knows anyway, the"listener envelopment"...
It is not enough? You wanted a tested scientific theory written for you before buying 20 bucks toy for an experiment? Or you call the police to arrest the con men you already insulted? Are you a standing comic?
My intention was not to insult you, just point out where you erred in your analysis or judgement.
FOUR- i erred in " analysis" and "judgement" in proposing a fun and simple experiment? i repeat, are you a standing comic?
It goes beyond hypocrisy to insult and attack the messenger while not adding anything to the coherent conversation. To borrow one of your tactics: "Never argue with a sick mind" .....Joe Walsh I wish you good luck and good mental health.
This is the end of your last post with insults.... And here your first post... Then WHO INSULT WHOM?
Yes, there are some people who believe in science and physics and not voodoo. There are people who are not gullible or naive and can realize when they are being conned. Some people don’t fall for the logical fallacy of "the appeal to authority", especially when the authority on science you are appealing to is Groucho Marx.
FIVE-English is not my first language and i apologize for my bad use of syntax etc...
By the wayhere is no mysticism in the way i speak of science in my last posts save for a very narrow mind sorry... And i an not here in this thread to propose argument for a theory of Schuman resonance in audio or for selling S.G.... we speak about a simple, possibly rewarding, anyway funny EXPERIMENT...No argument could never replace an experiment... you boast about science and you dont know that? or science is only a belief for you perhaps?
And note when you speak about my "cunning" of people that i sell nothing and only recommend to buy peanuts cost devices...I repeat i know but it is an important fact ....
I was hoping you could provide more of an argument than just a bunch of double talk and mysticism cloaked in bad grammar an improper English, but such is not the case.
I was hoping you could provide more of an argument
I forget to say that if you want an argument i only have one...
Probably because these chinese device are cheap and not very precise the audible effect linked to what is the "listener envelopment" experience in acoustic is not related to the precise Schuman resonance anyway...
It is probably a result of the coupling of this device and his own low frequency impulse with our audio system in the same electrical grid which produce an audible effect through the electrical noise floor...
It is easy to verify with my experiment number 2:
Put a shungite piece over the capacitor of the device: compression of the sound..
Put an herkimer diamond only : the sound is more airy and perhaps too much...
Put the shungite add copper tape on his external face+ an herkimer diamond: the audible effect is more balanced and more musical...
Then before calling the police against a conman , try something easy to verify and better than only a "spoken argument" that will never convince any "skeptic club member" anyway and which is useless to those who have tried it successfully or not...
and refrain to insult in beginning or in ending post and even all along the post....
There is no argument in your 2 posts, in mine, there is a first experiment , then a precise acoustic concept description experience, and after that a second experiment with verifiable effects and finally an argument for the reason of the possible S.G. effect assuming no link with the Schumann resonance phenomena...
If i am "sick" i am coherently articulated even with my bad English....
Anyway my best to you without any backmind toughts, life is short.....
Took the OP’s challenge. Ordered a 16.97 device which arrived on 3/15.I’ve also been working with 10 HFT’s for a few weeks. They are amazing and worth every penny. As some Brits would say, I'm gobsmacked by the HFT's.
Over the last 3 days, I have tried the SG in 4 different locations and the results have been exactly the same. An intense pressure right between my eyes coupled with general anxiety and tension. Just the opposite of relaxation. The effect goes away as soon as the device is turned off. Regarding sound, there is absolutely no change that I can hear. I have considered that my physical discomfort may be affecting how I hear but I would think if that were the case, things would sound worse, not exactly the same.
I have tried the SG in 4 different locations and the results have been exactly the same. An intense pressure right between my eyes coupled with general anxiety and tension.
Sorry for your discomfort.... electro sensibility is scientific fact linked to some device around the house for some people and it seems that S.G. can induce some unwishes one...
Thanks for your interesting report and useful one indeed....
Fascinating. Somewhere in some of my comments I made note of this. Immediately upon plugging the first one in I felt something like a slight tension in my head. It wasn’t a lot and I was kind of hyper-vigilant trying to notice any little thing and so I thought the feeling in my head was, you know, all in my head. There was no doubt about the sound improvement, and the feeling of unease hung around all night. But it wasn’t bad and I will put up with it for the sound improvement. After a couple nights it went away. Never felt it again.
Until I added 2 more. Then sure enough, same exact feeling. Only this time went away faster. This has since repeated every time more were added. My wife never noticed anything like this. The one I sent Krissy, identical to mine, she was gushing how it made her feel so good. Her cat finds it, curls up and sleeps right next to it.
These things definitely have an effect. What exactly varies a lot. If you can’t hear a difference you can’t hear a difference. But it would be interesting to know if that feeling goes away in a day or so like it did with me, and if then when you are relaxed you might notice the sound is better too.
Hope you got PHT Black and Green. Black is more neutral, dynamic. Green is more dreamy liquid. Try moving them around to find where they work the best. Together they are the bomb!
Thanks maghister and millercarbon. MC, you brought up some interesting things to consider. I'm tabling the experiment for now but might revisit it after I finish with the PHT. Yes, I'm getting the green and black. I'll initially try the green on top of my Dynavector 20X2 and go from there. Really looking forward to it!
my bad for not refreshing after a day. the offered opinion:
"Interesting. I thought the SR devices do not affect the sound or the
listening environment, they only relax the listener so the music becomes
more enjoyable. Are you that easily affected that a change in mood can
be turned on-off like a switch with immediate results?"
Perhaps you thought wrong about the SR devices. It's possible from your
limited understanding of what's been published. It's bliss, I'm sure.
Interesting. I thought the SR devices do not affect the sound or the
listening environment, they only relax the listener so the music becomes
more enjoyable.
Don't know about others but somewhere in my comments I made clear this is not the case. If they were somehow affecting me then everything- not just the stereo but voices, people talking, every sound in the room- would sound better. That is not the case. All the other acoustical treatments do affect all the sound in the room. Not just the sound coming from the speakers. All of it.
This is a good example of how to think a problem through and solve a puzzle logically. If it is an acoustic effect then it will affect all the acoustics, not just what is coming from the speakers. This is not the case. Everything else sounds the same. So it can't be that.
If it is a psychological effect then again it would affect every experience of sound. So again everything should sound better. But it does not. So it cannot be psychological.
The device does emit electromagnetic radiation. This is the whole purpose. All the wires in the system are functional antennas receiving radio waves. This is not news, RFI is real, so no new information there.
Dither is a noise that when added to a signal actually improves the perceived quality of the signal. If this sounds unlikely please take a moment, pause, do a search. Dither is used in video, has been for decades.
The most likely explanation I know that fits all the facts is a Schumann generator adds dither, and this improves our aural perception of sound the same as it improves our visual perception of images.
The most likely explanation I know that fits all the facts is a Schumann generator adds dither, and this improves our aural perception of sound the same as it improves our visual perception of images.
i was thinking so in a way analogous to a kind of mechanical dithering effect but in the electromagnetic dimensions where the fine line imposed by the ratio signals/noise emerged audibly ...
The reason why i was thinking so it that the S. G. without modification add acoustically something to the listener envelopment experience and to the relation between imaging and soundstage...
But when i was experimenting with shungite i was really surprized to observe the compression of the sound when i put the shungite only on the capacitors... When i tried with only herkimer diamond the effect was opposite: a decompression... In the 2 cases it was not always ideal musically but when i added the 2 together there is a balancing very optimal musical effect... Especially when i transformed the shungite with copper tape in what i called a "golden plate"...
Then the S.G. act on the electrical grid itself of the room and gear not only like a dithering effect...But i am not a scientist for sure...
Then the S.G. act on the electrical grid itself of the room and gear not only like a dithering effect.
I will correct my formulation: the dithering effect come from the action of the S.G. directly through the electrical grid noise floor, like my experiment suggested to me with the shungite and H.D.
The radio waves put out by the SG are picked up by the wires in the AC grid equally as well as the wires in the components in the system. I don't even distinguish between them. The grid is the system as much as anything else.
If not how in the world my shungite and H.D. can modify , compress or decompress the sound?
That is my point...
It is the reason also why my "golden plates" work all along the electrical grid...Decreasing the noise floor .....
One thing acoustically interesting is that the S.G. seems to act increasing the "Listener envelopment factor "...I add more than 2 one year ago because of this perceptive fact, easy to confirm by an experiment where i was gradually decreasing the number Of S.G. being "on" in my grid of 12.....
For the reader is this internet definition:
«Listener envelopment LEV is the degree to which the reverberant sound seems to surround the listener—to come from all directions. In the best halls, sound waves are free to travel around the overhead spaces, front, sides and rear of the upper sidewalls giving to the listener the feeling of being immersed in the sound.»
"listener envelopment" acoustical factor was an experience not often described in audio thread but perfectly acoustically precise...
With the introduction of my mechanical equalizer, my room being more in controls, i perceived it very clearly, especially with musical files where the recording engineer use many microphones on the theater scenes....Some voices were coming from behind my head....In a 2 speakers stereo system i had never experimented that before because my room was not acoustically enough under controls...
The Helmholtz mechanical equalizer controls the response of the room to the speakers with the ears acting like the main tool, reacting not to a test frequency for a very precise location in millimeter sended to a mic like in electronic equalization but to the first wavefront coming from the timing of early and late reflection with the direct sound of the speakers for the human ears than for all locations in the room and not only a "sweet spot" .....
I myself have been underwater with 2 chn.surround sound for many years..First with my modified Dunlavy SC4's and for the last many years with the 3rd revision of the Caravelle speaker..soon to be the 4th relife. A constant over that time has been the mechanical grounding inside and out of every component, Argent Room Lens (Mr.Helmholtz) acoustic angles on ceiling and floor, acoustic paint, active laminar flow enhancement device..and treatment of incoming AC with enhancement coating.. That's all for now..until tomorrow. Tom
Oh and the Schumann Resonator it enhances detail within the soundstage. More to land tomorrow and will first place those in the music directors I have on the floor and ontop of the stacked stereo subs. Tom
Those grounding dealie-bobbers, they look like a loop? But that would just be a longer version of a grounding plug? Or is something akin to Fight Club magic matter involved?
The e loops work as do several versions of them . Look on line for Bud Purvine and see what he is about. He lives up in your corner..
Dilberts here laughed at his invention of the EnABL process. There are hundreds of pages and thousands of posts about his application..for over 15 years and still running. He realized his patent was very easy to copy so he gave it up to the public. And yes it is about dissipating a polarity of a shear wave . Bud asked me to go on the diyAudio forum and open an extended thread that would address the issues of shear and Raleigh waves in audio components and in any audio room. Surfaces..boundaries and enclosures all qualify. I never did post on the site and probably never will nor will my fellow traveler Debbie. She is even more happily retired than me.
Bud probably gained much good will and rapport for his transformer business when he cut loose the patent on the EnAbL process. His transformers are said to be some of the best on the planet. He also came up with the original e- loop..There again Dilberts here laughed at those devices..They are just ignorant and you know the two I am reflecting on. Just like a polarity of shear they travel in 2 different directions and 2 different velocities. Butt unlike a shear wave neither polarity has a good use..Tom
Do not worry, that is what parents are for. We check what our youngsters do and try to put them back on the right course, once they start hanging out with the wrong crowd.
The only plausible and rational explanation ever offered as to why Schumann resonators affect audio signals is the assertion made by Coherence Systems. Check it out.
I haven’t gone through the entire thread here, just a few pages. I’ll read the whole thing when I have the time. I have two of these devices. I got mine from Nobsound/Douk Audio because they are a reliable retailer of Chi-fi that actually quality controls and ensures the products are built to spec (unlike the chances you take on Amazon etc). Costs a bit more.
Yes, they definitely work, the improvement is quite evident to me. I suspect they work really well in systems that are setup properly with good grounding, power filtration etc.
I know someone that works in the power industry, solving big problems and designing power delivery systems. They are not just an engineer, but someone that understands the actual physics behind AC electricity, electric circuits etc. they referred me to the resonator and told me to try it. Their explanation is quite a bit different than others I’ve heard. It goes as follows (if I can represent this well):
The resonator creates an active ground plane around the resonant point. In these boxes it more or less expands about 4 feet in every direction. This ground plane couples with your electrical ground or anything nearby that might act as a ground, and shunts all excess RF energy to that ground. The frequency range it covers is from lower Hz frequencies (30hz and up) up into gigahertz ranges. So excess noise in electrical circuits can be pulled to ground, interference etc. They say that the ground plane takes a while to setup, interacting with magnetic, electrostatics and power fields around it until it reaches equilibrium which can take a number of days to become truly stable and sound its best.
I’ve found one of the best places to put a box is on top of my power conditioning stack, seeming to supercharge the ability to clean up the power before it gets to my gear. I love it on the top of my DAC too which is almost 5 feet high with other components below it. I have another I will be putting in my system shortly to see if it further improves things.
One other thing I have found is that if you are putting right on top of a component, where it sits can dramatically shift tonal balances. An inch or two can make it bright and hard vs softer and liquid. This goes away when its further from the component. And if on a component it should be where the transformer is, and that can be why the balance can change.
I paid somewhat nore than the one that you reference from ebay a couple of yearers ago, and recently, one of the two suddenly died. I think I'll try one of these. Yes, they definitely work.
Not all tweaks work in my system....my 21 SR HFTs were a waste of money. The Schumann Resonator is now in the trash. It did not help me sleep nor did it do anything for my music.
I've had one for years made by Clones Audio (they no longer make it) and it's well made compared to what I've seen online. I've read that one is supposed to keep it above head level and away from your gear but now reading that it's best to position it within 4' of your system, I may give it another try as I couldn't tell if what I was hearing was what I was hearing.
As for a sleep aid, I've been having more bouts of insomnia lately and decided to dig the unit out and place it back up on my dresser and have had an easier time falling asleep (a deep one) with more vivid dreams. My insomnia is now an occasional problem.
I have 4 of these somewhere. I fell asleep quicker and slept more deeply along with feeling more engaged in the music initially with them. Unfortunately, each after a few weeks lost their mojo including a relatively expensive unit. I believe they simply drift off the 7.83Hz frequency rendering them useless.
I have pulled the trigger to try the Space-Tech Labs SR-200 Schumann Resonator. It will be interesting to see how much different this will be from Chi-Fi ones. Designer says that their device outputs a pure sine wave instead of the square wave of the cheaper units. He says the square wave is what causes people to have negative experiences with them, and is more effective and has better health benefits. He also says his units use high quality signal clock to keep the frequency accurate with a vanishingly low level of drift, which the cheaper units can't do. It also has variable control on frequency, and output providing many different options for tuning to your preference.
I really don't know how this will work, but I think its important to keep pushing the envelope and try new things.
I had a buddy turn me on to the Chartres MK V. (The one housed in clear acrylic) It was a very noticeable upgrade, and we slept better. The lady of the house, who has nothing to do with our audio craziness, noticed the sound change right away; all you have to do is unplug it and plug it back in (sounds worse, sounds better). It’s not one of those tweaks where you kinda think you can tell the difference, It is full on an upgrade. I also have a Dutch Audio engineer friend, who makes speakers, as in, good ears, tell me he bought a Chinese one and couldn’t hear any difference. All the links to eBay for the 10 buck cheapies are older and not functional. Would people that have Schumann Resonators that work, take a shot of the top of your unit. I want to see the configuration. Thanks!
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