Harry Pearson's

Rule of Thirds: Speakers 1/3 of the way into the room, you 2/3 of the way.

Think of your speaker as a floodlight and your walls as mirrors.  AS you get more and more reflections the light itself gets more and more confusing as to source and direction, etc.  With enough reflections, you could actually be confused as to where the light originates.   Sort of the parallel to the "house of mirrors" in old fun houses where you lose what is real and what is a reflection. 

Brad 

@lonemountain

Thx for your comment which I do like. Your notes inspired me to dig a bit further into the topic. The information under the following link is very interesting to me. Basically the same what you are stipulating regarding room reflextions in your above post.

I've got a square room too,slightly larger at 16 x 16 1/2 and 8 ft. ceiling. I have room treatments and three subs.The sound stage is wall to wall with very little layering.But if I sit on the floor the stage seems to move back beyond the walls to the lawn with many layers. After experimenting with ceiling treatments the conclusion is it's not important enough to me to go to extremes to get the depth.So anyway in my case it is all about the room since it doesn't make a difference which speakers I've used.

It seems everyone has a different idea about how to get good imaging and achieve a good soundstage. The enemy in achieving this (assuming your speakers have consistent dispersion in the midrange) is REFLECTIONS from walls. So given that, go into a huge room and almost everything sounds good. The closest most of have to that is outside in our driveway or back porch (not under any roof). What makes this work is massive reduction in reflections. A lot of people have never tried this and its a shame as tells you what your speakers actually sound like. What’s important about this is a "baseline" of comparison, now you know how good they can sound and you’ll know when you go back into your listening room how far you are away from that. All this work trying to find gear that works in small room never works. .

There is one solution, someone mentioned it, move your speakers closer to you, get yourself and your speakers in a small equilateral triangle far away from walls. A 2 foot triangle is not too small to hear this effect. What you have done is reduced the level of the reflections and increased the level of the direct sound. You have increased the ratio of direct vs reflected, which is always a goal in any studio, listening space, auditorium, etc. Now listen to that, not too loud (don’t excite the room to much with energy) and don’t use subs for this experiment. Okay, this is about as good as these speakers can sound in THIS room. Now you know the difference between the best it can sound in this room vs outside in no room. You know a lot more than you did before.

Now next step is to slowly increase the length/sides of the triangle until the sound changes so much you don’t like it anymore. You WILL find that point. What is this point? The point where reflected sound begins to equal the level of direct sound. Now you know the limit of the triangle you successfully use to hear things as good as they can be with these speakers in this room. Make the standard a little smaller than the limit and it will always sound good. DO you have to move things every time you listen? Probably. Can you find a speaker that works better than this in this room, maybe, but unlikely. The performance you need to sound better in that room may not be known by the store or expressed in the literature. Remember, no one else has your room so all other "experiments" in other peoples rooms mean zero to you. Your room is the only one we care about in this case.

Treatment can expand the size of the triangle and reduce the reflected sound vs direct sound and therefore improve the image/the sound. Generally speaking the number one goal is to reduce the first reflections, then the second ones, etc until the image begins to emerge/. If you have crap speakers that don’t image, you’ll never get there, but if you are using speakers other people here post about (as having good imaging) the room is likely your only problem; Not amplifiers, not preamps, ,not streamers, not DACs, not cables.  All these things can make it better or worse but are not the key contributor to imaging.  The speaker/room interaction is the #1 reason things sound good or bad. 

Brad

Small rooms tend to compress the frequencies. You can only turn up the volume so much.  Very very very difficult for a small room to flourish. How high is the ceiling? That's another huge factor.

Have you thought about headphones?  

Im in a small 10 by 13 room and it is challenging by not impossible to achcieve what your after.Leveling speaker is done with lazer placed on top of cab focused toward the listening chair.I did this with them (speakers) just over shoulder toe in.I got rid of room controll (side/bass traps too) and went this route letting my ears get use to this.Sound much more open,live.I read a galen carol article about stands and it made the difference in imaging...Smaller rooms dont have room for "nodes" to develop is one theory that i read?.measure speaker front tweeter to back/front wall.Cant be too nerdy about the little things...🎼

@immatthewj 

rear wall: 3.5', side wall: 2' distance between speakers: 6.5'

my distance is about 7' from each speaker

I think I would benefit from moving them closer/out 0.5' in each direction

I have the same room size and today I sat closer to the speakers and lower. My ears were at the midbass driver level.

5' out instead of 6', sitting on the floor. Giant difference. a lot more "surrounding", spacious soundstage. 

@grislybutter  , this thread got me back to tweaking in my room.  The clean space in my room is actually smaller than your room & OPs room, but out of curiosity, could you tell me how far you have your speakers from the rear & side walls?  Thanks/Matt

I have the same room size and today I sat closer to the speakers and lower. My ears were at the midbass driver level.

5' out instead of 6', sitting on the floor. Giant difference. a lot more "surrounding", spacious soundstage. 

I have a humble system and 0 room treatment, other than curtains and furniture 

Something to try would be to raise the speaker to a higher level so that the tweeter plane is at least at ear height.

With the right speakers this will work fine. I wouldn't use speakers with lots of woofers. That makes it tough

@armyslowrdr 

i will keep at it.      i have a few things i am going to try.

@immatthewj 

I understand that you currently have your gear between your speakers, my question was:  in that listening environment that you previously had your system in, was your gear between your speakers then?

equipment was in between the speakers at the other house  / system as well.    

biggest difference from there to here is the size of the room i had over there.

i have not turned the subs off.           i guess my question is what would be the purpose of that ?

yes the gear is in between the speakers.      the stands are basically amp stands, so they are very low to the ground.

1) It is easy & free to try and the interaction of the subs with the speakers (particularly in a small room) may have an effect on sound stage.

@)I understand that you currently have your gear between your speakers, my question was:  in that listening environment that you previously had your system in, was your gear between your speakers then?

You don't want room dimensions that cause standing waves/resonance. For example a 12x12x12' room would have a fundamental resonance of whatwever that frequency would be. Best to have a where the dimensions are not the same. Knock down a few walls, I'm sure your wife wouldn't mind!

12 inch subs--Rythmiks.  Lol not 12 foot---that would be something!!

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10223074687878862&set=a.2556971486848

I am in an 11 by 12 room with 8 foot untreated ceiling.  I too use GIK acoustic panels.  The speakers are pulled into the room say 3 feet.  I have a few feet behind my listening chair.  It is a 5 1/2 foot triangular set up.  At first I had the speakers slightly wider apart but noticed that seemed to give me a wide stage and depth but there was a hole in the middle.  The trick was moving the speakers just two inches closer together.  It takes a lot of patience but once you get there you will have the width, depth, and height...and those layers will sound lovely.  Albeit in such small spaces one might not get 100 % the I can walk between the instruments with ease effect that Jay Lee and Thomas talks about. As far as too much speaker that someone mentioned--I run two 12' subs in the room along with my Sonusfaber Oly 1s----the bass is well balanced. And finally those that mentioned how the music is recorded are spot on too.  Some recordings just do not have the mix to allow for spacious, enveloping sound.  Best wishes!

@immatthewj 

I just did a reread & I read this by @grislybutter  , did you ever give this a try?

Also, in that previous listening space which you have alluded to, did you have any gear between the speakers?

i have not turned the subs off.           i guess my question is what would be the purpose of that ?

yes the gear is in between the speakers.      the stands are basically amp stands, so they are very low to the ground.

@bshaw 

I had a professional acoustician design my room and I built it while my speakers were being built. Check out my system on my page. 100 percent absorption. I have no reflective surfaces (actually there is no drywall inside the room)   besides the door behind the chair. I hear the direct sound from the speakers. The room is probably considered dead by most standards. The sound is phenomenal ! Wide soundstage, amazing center image. A consultation from a professional would be worth your time. I used Jeff at hdacoustics. He is superb. Good luck! 

I would unplug the subs first, and experiment with the monitors only.

I just did a reread & I read this by @grislybutter  , did you ever give this a try?

Also, in that previous listening space which you have alluded to, did you have any gear between the speakers?

@bshaw Yes the models are different but the example is applicable. Both models are dynamic driver / enclosure design.

The M2 is quite a nice choice as smallish two - way designs have come quite a long way.

My current ' stand mount ' mains are a two way design with rear ports which are placed near the ' front ' wall and perform in exemplary manner for imaging.

The example that I cited goes to demonstrate that a speaker - enclosure can be placed nearly against a wall and function well.

The 12' x 12' room ' constraint ' seems to be the immediate concern given:

" my question i guess is that can this same thing happen in a smaller room, say 12x12 or is one just limited to say center imaging due to room size ? ".

The lower the ceiling the greater a smaller space would be affected but a symmetric room is more predictable acoustically. Also note that a ' small room ' - acoustically - could be as much as 700 sqft as an example.

In general terms damping the room at one end and diffused at the opposite can work well. As with almost any rooms frequencies below 200 Hz will remain as difficult to treat in an easy way. 

None of these ' circumstance ' preclude good imaging though. 

Large playback systems like the examples used in the videos listed can deliver exceptionally high SPL levels in a large room. A different goal. 

A few speakers are designed or are tunable (via port stuffing) to enable placement closer to the rear walls. It's just a matter of how the load the room acoustically. Monitor Audio Silver 300 7G are one. In my room,   I am able to get them within 18" of the back wall and 30" from the side walls with the lower port stuffed and still have male and female vocals that aren't muddy, and bass extension to the around 40Hz. FWIW, I've tried and no way I can get my Magnepan LRS (need more room) or KEF LS50s (they're nearfield monitors) to work in my room. I also have 9 - 24" square by 2" acoustical panels on the ceiling - these made a huge improvement in a very high 12- 15 ft sloped ceiling room.

@thyname 

mine didnt come with brackets as the idea was to have them on the stands as there was not enough room to hang them on the side walls and it wouldnt be even either....so went with the stand option.                             i can either get the brackets or i can just take it off of the panels and swap them around.

i have wondered though about placing something on the back wall i have....as all i have is a small curtain for the window and the bass corner traps that are stacked 2 high.      wonder if a panel(s)  on that blank space would do anything ?

I agree with you, but when I go, once a year or so, it’s giant speakers in giant spaces. (my point being that soundstage is not a given, we are not recreating but creating it)

@grislybutter , gotcha. It’s been like over 40 years since I dropped acid & went to a Rush concert at an amphitheater, but even more recently (which is now over 20 years ago) when I was catching way smaller acts at general admission 500 seat venues (which usually were not filling anywhere near capacity) I wasn’t there for the sound stage and I don’t think I was hearing a whole lot of it; I was there to see an artist that I really liked perform. What I heard in my living room usually sounded better than what I went to see live.

@bshaw , I will thank you for posting this thread. I had been putting it off for a while, but because of this thread I was in the room tonight tweaking the speakers, & I wound up bringing them about 6 more " from the rear wall, incrementally closer together (therefore incrementally further from the sides) & the listening chair moved back a bit. Hopefully I’ll be back there again tomorrow night to do some more evaluating.

A couple of more things to take or leave as you please: but all CDs are not created equal. I won’t ever be critical of anything anybody listens to, but ATTEMPTING to create a better sonic environment & ATTEMPTING to listen critically is what turned me on to jazz (which is not to say that jazz is all I listen to). My small room & what usually seems like probably a smaller venue or studio seem to work well together, plus there is a lot of well mixed and mastered source stuff to choose from. I’ve tried classical, but I think that this is where the small room’s limitations become more evident. Plus, classical doesn’t really float my boat.

This (hopefully) quick story is the last thing I’ll say about electronics: around 25 years ago I was listening to a smallish Cary tube amp (four 6550s for outputs), and a B&K HT preamp (I have long since abandoned HT) & my stereo system utilized a pair of B&W 805s. I read Stereophile religeously & I longed for the sound stage they all wrote about. One month Stereophile featured the Mesa Baron (a dual monoblock in one chassis tube amp, 12 output tubes per monoblock that are switchable in thirds from full triode to full pentode, meters, rack handles, all sorts of cool looking switches . . .) and a local dealer actually had one he let me try out for a weekend! Plus he was going to give me a decent trade in on my little Cary! Man, I was excited about that! He advised I utilize 1/3 triode & 2/3 pentode & most of the time I did. Using the same speakers & without changing their placement I was instantly struck by how close in my face the music was & how it filled the room. I was listening a lot to the the Cowboy Junkies at the time & Margo’s voice took on a husky quality (as did all vocals) & a smoky or musky sounding background was always pervasive. But it was new & different & I initially found it appealing & it was a soundstage & I hadn’t really heard one before so I had just about made up my mind to buy it,

but

the last thing I did the Sunday night before I was going to bring it back or close the deal on it was to hook my little Cary back up & I put the Cowboy Junkies back on & listened to Sweet Jane (it was either off of Trinity Sessions or their only live CD at the time) and the sound stage shrunk back to the wall that the speakers were on, but there was a blackness to what surrounded the music and around the vocals and the instrumental work--cymbals hung in the air & vibrated and I could imagine her clenching her teeth on certain passages & it was like, "that other stuff was neat in a different sort of way, but this is clean & pure sounding." So I kept the little Cary (I still have it) & gradually upgraded through a couple of more amps & a couple more preamps and wires & cables & digital front ends.

There was a point to that seemingly pointless story, but anyway, good luck on your quest. Ramble on. . . .

Those definitely can be put on wall. And come with all the hardware. I know, I have bought many Alphas. From the very link you posted, under Installation Guide tab:

INSTALLATION GUIDE

All (23″ x 45.5″) Alpha Series Panels come with two sawtooth hangers for easy wall mounting.

You have your choice of orientation. 
 

You will actually have to pay extra to buy the freestanding wood kits. If you lost those sawtooth hangers, they can be bought in any hardware store. Unless you don’t want to hang them, or you are not allowed. That’s another story, totally understandable though 

@thyname

when i contacted GIK, they wanted pictures of the room so they could get an idea of what to recommend. if i was to put any kind of panel that they suggested on the side walls, it wouldnt be even as there is a window on one side and a panel would hit the light switch, so he suggested the diffusor that has a stand and can be moved around.

https://www.gikacoustics.com/product/2a-alpha-panel-diffusor-absorber/

mine is the black and white one, but its 2’ x 4’.

unless i get creative....these are not meant to be hung on a wall as there is no mounting hardware and would have to think of something.         not saying it couldnt be done.... 

i dont think moving 2 panels is going to change anything to be honest.

@riley804 : I was replying to @bshaw , but that’s OK, it sounds like you also have GIK diffusers you cannot put on wall. Below is the GIK diffuser page. Which one (s) of these you have?

Oh I have all kinds of acoustic panels, diffusers, absorbers, bass traps. Even on ceiling. You can get a good idea looking at my profile page here under Systems. Slowly but surely, my coverage percentage in my room got pretty high and satisfactory. Everything sounds AND measures (REW) very good.

Every room is different. As much as the GIK people can help remotely by seeing pictures and videos, one has to do this themselves, figure it all out by listening and measuring their room response, and get advice as the project progresses. There are no shortcuts. But the process is enjoyable, especially when the end result is good.

@bshaw :

if i had the option to hang the diffusors

Exactly which diffusers from GIK do you have? Maybe you can post a link. I don’t see how you cannot put them behind your listening chair, on the back wall. About 30-40 inches above floor level. Center.

Here is what I have on the back wall: 

Combination absorption/ diffuser/ bass traps

@thyname 

From my own experience, if one wants bigger soundstage in a small(ish) room, diffusers should be used on the back wall (and the front wall, but to a lesser extent), not absorbers. Even side walls, a combination absorber / diffusers may work better

interesting.            when i contaced GIK to place an order, they of course want pictures of the room to get an idea of what to suggest....and i forget his name, but he suggested the corner traps, diffusors on stands and absorbers behind the chair. 

if i had the option to hang the diffusors, and maybe i can come up with something so this can happen, just have to be creative, then i can swap the two around and see if it makes a difference..

@thyname When I got advice from GIK regarding my room, I was told that an absorption panel in a small room is preferable to a diffuser ... in a small room, a diffuser can magnify existing, untreated problem areas. I was told also to place the absorption panel behind the listening chair. In my room, the main problem was that it was too lively, so the absorption panel and corner traps have corrected that.

@immatthewj

I agree with you, but when I go, once a year or so, it’s giant speakers in giant spaces. (my point being that soundstage is not a given, we are not recreating but creating it)

if I go to a concert, I don’t hear a soundstage, most of the time I just try not to go deaf with my sensitive ears,

@grislybutter  ,  I thought you made good suggestion and points; however I would think that if you went to a small mostly acoustic performance that you probably would hear some sort of sound stage.

Also, it looks like you may need to move the speakers closer together since you’re not getting any soundstaging with them wide apart ... if you move them closer in small increments with no toe-in, there should come a point where they will snap into focus and you’ll achieve a nice soundstage.

@rlb61  , this was kind of where I was going with suggesting OP start with a small equilateral triangle with about 4' spacing & then moving wider in increments to see if he could catch a good spot.  But I am also thinking that having his equipment between his speakers will be problematic. 

absorption panel behind your listening position. 

From my own experience, if one wants bigger soundstage in a small(ish) room, diffusers should be used on the back wall (and the front wall, but to a lesser extent), not absorbers. Even side walls, a combination absorber / diffusers may work better

@bshaw Sorry, I haven’t read the entire thread. However, when measuring speakers from the back wall, the measurement should be to the front baffle, not the back of the speaker. Similarly, side wall measurements should be to the front baffle. Also, it looks like you may need to move the speakers closer together since you’re not getting any soundstaging with them wide apart ... if you move them closer in small increments with no toe-in, there should come a point where they will snap into focus and you’ll achieve a nice soundstage.

@rlb61 

if you have read all my replies....i have GIK panels, i have the bass traps in the corner, i have the acoustical panels behind the listening chair and i have the stand up diffusors..

speakers are( i forget now as  i have moved them so many times,) but from the back wall to the rear of the speaker they are out at least 3 ft, maybe more....and 29" from the side walls.

if i go wo wide with them, then it sounds just like 2 speakers playing and i lose center imagining.         i have the triangle from speakers to listening chair.

This is a very challenging situation; however, you can get a good sounstage in a small room. Room treatments are essential, and I use GIK for mine. In my 11x11x8 room, my speakers are about 3’ from the back wall (measured to front baffle) and 29" from the side walls. Speakers are abiut 7.5’ apart amd my listening chair is about 8’ from the speakers. Suggest using corner bass traps, side panels for first reflection points, and an absorption panel behind your listening position. With some experimentation, you should achieve a good soundatage.

@immatthewj 

my sound stage presents the illusion of being wider than the room is laterally and filling the space between my listening position & the rear wall and dead center imaging.. I hear plenty of height. 

that is what i dont have.     i have the center imaging, but what you just described is what i am missing.

i keep saying that the system sounds fine, i have vocals that image from the front.....but that is where it stops.

@bshaw , Sorry if I missed something, but I thought that you said that you either had imaging and no real sound stage or if you moved your speakers far enough apart you lost the imaging? That doesn’t sound fine to me.

.....and hence my post about can this be achieved in a smaller room ?? if you look at the size of both of those rooms in the videos, they are big rooms....a lot bigger than mine. i think that a small room like mine has its limitations and this is going to be it.

I listen in a room with less clean space than you have described, and although I do not know how accurate it is, my sound stage presents the illusion of being wider than the room is laterally and filling the space between my listening position & the rear wall and dead center imaging.. I hear plenty of height. (A lot of this is dependent upon the source CD. Some are WAY better than others.) I have no doubt at all in my mind that if I was to move back out into the living room with my gear that there would be sonic benefits, but I believe that the limitations of close field listening can be mitigated to a large extent.

the equipment has to stay in between the speakers , there is no other option.

Now this, above, I see as presenting a real problem. As I typed, I think that the sonic limitations of near field listening can be mitigated, but one of the things (that I think) need to be done is to have a clean triangle.

However, I make no claims at all of being an expert on this subject.

@rego 

good info, but those are not the speakers i have.

https://pbnaudio.com/personic-speakers/

i have the M2

I found a set up description in a Stereophile Review of a PBN Montana.

" When he sets his speakers up in a listening room, PBN’s Noerbaek begins by placing the speakers about 2’ from the back wall and about 7’ apart. He then toes them in, finding the proper angle by extending the horizontal plane of the front baffle to intersect the outside rear corner of the other speaker. (This is easy to do with a length of string and a couple of pieces of tape.) Once the speakers are so positioned, they can be moved a little at a time until the optimum imaging is found.

In my room, I was able to get the Montanas relatively close to the rear wall without inducing any boominess. I found that a horizontal separation of about 6.5’ between the inside front corners was optimum in my room, and 16" out from the back wall was fine. The heavy-duty spike feet are essential for getting the most out of the EPS, but shouldn’t be installed until the speakers are close to their permanent positions. Once the feet are on, each speaker can be moved by tipping it back so all its weight is on one spike, then pivoting it around that point. Toe-in is critical if you want to get the best imaging from these speakers. "

1 Measure from the front of the speaker enclosure ( the baffle ) to the wall behind the Speakers and on the centreline ( for the sake of uniformity ).

2 Switch off the Subwoofers and find out what the Mains ( L+R channels ) sound like without Subs.

Don’t hesitate to adjust the distance to the wall and between the Speakers as well as the distance for listening position.

You are adjusting for both power response and soundstage - the image should extend beyond ( outside the speaker positions ).

Note the difference between the initial setup and how the reviewer positions the

L+R channels.

@immatthewj 

So no matter the distance you put your speakers at, no happy medium?

i keep saying that the system sounds fine, i have vocals that image from the front.....but that is where it stops. 

if you go back and watch jays audio labs video and Paul from ps audio.....they both mention that there is a soundstage and there are layers behind the speakers that they also hear.              this is what i do not get.....and hence my post about can this be achieved in a smaller room ??       if you look at the size of both of those rooms in the videos, they are big rooms....a lot bigger than mine.     i think that a small room like mine has its limitations and this is going to be it. 

 keep the back wall clear of gear and obviously no gear between your speakers (everything off to one side). I think I would start out with keeping the rear wall clean as well (if it was me).

the equipment has to stay in between the speakers , there is no other option.    the stands i have are very low.....its basically a amp stand and then a stand that is two high that has the preamp on one and the cd player below that.

Well, two things:

You listed your gear but I am not familiar with any of it (which doesn’t mean anything as a couple of decades ago I quit keeping up on this stuff) but I did find in the decade before, that as I gradually upgraded the electronics in front of my speakers, everything (sonic-wise) got bigger, better, and tighter. I said I have been out of touch for the past two decades and that is true, but over the last three years I did splurge on a new SACD player & a preamp I could not afford and, sonic wise, things are at the best they have ever been. (But, sadly, I am still not having as much fun as I had about 25 years ago.)

Secondly, I read through this entire thread starting yesterday, but I can’t remember if something like this has been proposed, but maybe start over with a clean small equilateral triangle of about 4’ in the CENTER between walls and then start increasing it by equal increments and see if you can find something. Since that equilateral triangle will start out small, keep the back wall clear of gear and obviously no gear between your speakers (everything off to one side). I think I would start out with keeping the rear wall clean as well (if it was me).

if i go wider, then it just sounds like 2 speakers playing and have no center imagining at all.

i have center imagining.....but i am not getting anything more than that. 

 

So no matter the distance you put your speakers at, no happy medium?

@highend64 

Do you have treatment for the first reflection on the side walls?

yes....that is where the diffusors are at.

@immatthewj 

i have center imagining.....but i am not getting anything more than that.    

@bshaw 

That is great you have treated your room. Do you have treatment for the first reflection on the side walls?

My room did not have echo prior to treatment assuming that I thought sounded great. After that, what a considerably big difference. Of course without knowing what the room is doing, we are guessing. I happen to have the tools to do this.

i get that toe in plays a part....but if toe in sounds terrible, which i have said it does, then why toe them in ?

if i go wider, then it just sounds like 2 speakers playing and have no center imagining at all.

@bshaw , I don’t make any claims whatsoever to know a whole lot on this subject, but from what you have typed your room, your speakers, and you do not like toe-in. Therefore, I wouldn’t toe them in. As far as the width of the speakers and imaging, it also sounds to me as if you need to space them at a distance where you are hearing a precise center image.

There are some test CDs that have tracks by Doug Sax & Rodger Skoff, and on one of them they do this in phase/out of phase thing: "in phase, my voice should be centered precisely between your two speakers. . . ." and "out of phase, my voice should have no apparent center, no apparent focus, it should sound like it is coming from all around the room, move your speakers a little bit at a time to enhance this effect, the less focus you have when out of phase, the more focus you will have when in phase. . . ." That might be helpful to you.

@highend64 

in the beginning and somewhere in the middle, i have mentioned that the room is treated with GIK treatments.      there are a total of 4 bass traps in the corners, there are 2 standing diffusors and there are 2 acoutical panels behind the listening chair.

there is definitely no echo in this room.

@bshaw 

Alot suggested to have a your speaker toe in but have you consider how well you room is treated? The reason I mention treated room is because I have similar room dimensions as yours and before I thought with all the furniture and equipment in it that is sounded great. After audio measurement of my room, I had issues. I could get a decent image and soundstage but in a small room you can still get echo in the room just not much decay as bigger rooms.  I am not saying your room is the culprit but anaylizing and correcting acoustical problem can mask a solution.