Revisiting Chinese Knockoff Cables

Here are a number of updates. I have mixed impressions with Chinese cables so far.

I compared again my 25 years old Acrotec 8N 2080 mk1 to Odin Gold RCA cable. 
Yes, Odin Gold is nice, musical and well balanced.
But it is clearly inferior to the Acrotec 8N 2080 mk1. Acrotec is simply more transparent and has better texture and resolution plus deeper and more realistic bass.

After 400 hours my Odin 2 knockoff AC cable started sound balanced and organic with the LHY OCK-1 master clock
that works with my Gustard R26 DAC (connected by Harmonic Technology Digital Copper III BNC (50 ohm) cable).
Now R26 sounds much more transparent, 3D, focused and clean with the master clock without extra brightness.
Between 300 and 400 hour Odin 2 AC cable added some kind of whistling to high frequencies.

I bought the Accuphase 40th Anniversary AC cable.
I burned it on my computer for 10 days (240 hours) then I tried it.
The sound is very dynamic, with incredible resolution. But it is not smooth and the tone is a little bit on the cold side.
The question is, how much break in does this cable need?
And will it sound smoother or warmer after the fool breaks in? 

Update on replacing the AliExpress Odin 2 silver interconnect in my system. After a week of constant playing, it beats all my other interconnects, by a lot.  It’s staying in place between my Chord Qutest and my amp for now.  Oh, and it was only $23.81, which about 20x cheaper than my previous reference Nanotec/Furutech cable.

Does anybody compare Nordost Valhalla 2 knock off speakers cable speakers cables that cost around $1K and more for 2m pair? 

I bought Odin ii power (1.5m)  and Odin ii Gold RCA interconnect (1m) knock off cables.

I got both cables a week ago.

I put an intercont cable to FryBaby2 cable burner for 4 days. After that it sounds wonderful, comparable to my 25 years old Acrotec 2080 (Its retail price was $850). 

And the Odin Gold interconnect is getting better and better.

The power cable is a different story. I don't have a burn-in device for it. So I connected my PC with two monitors to the outlet strip using this cable.

After a week I tried to use it with my DAC . The sound is not clean and focused on high-frequencies yet. (I'm using my DAC with Furutech FP-S20N AC cable and FI-C15 NCF IEC).

How much time does Odin ii power cable need for break-in?

@musiclover1 

Until today, I have not been getting updates since you asked for the VeraFi link

https://verafiaudiollc.com/products/vibration-black-hole

They have quite a few excellent value products IE the Snubway, even with 20amp dedicated line and corepower 1800 the Snubway significantly improved my CDs

I have tried many Chinese cable products and currently use some in a mix with other commonly marketed brands from here in the US.  Some items are just OK and price appropriate, and some are very good and fantastic bargains.  I am currently using an Audiomeca power cable that cost about $100 on my phono preamp’s power supply and it is great.  I also have had good luck with inexpensive Chinese power conditioners.  I would not call them Shunyata “killers”, but they clean up power in some challenging environments and improve sound.  These products are all Chinese branded. 

I have also built many power cables from Chinese supplied parts that are clearly fake imitations of well known Japanese products and they make good sounding cords.  I would never try to sell these as anything other than home made cables from carefully Chinese sourced parts, and if I ever did try to sell them, I would cover any markings that might hint at a false branding.  Currently I just use them or give them away to friends.

I also have experience with a couple of cables from China marketed as well known name brands and models.  One was a supposed Furutech power cable that when available retailed for over $3k.  I think I paid about $100 USD.  Although it passed simple tests for continuity (no shorts or current leakage across conductors), resistance, and capacitance, it sounded dull and lifeless, and the connector which looked like $350 NCF product physically fell apart after about 6 months.  I think that would qualify as “garbage”.  

The other name brand product I tried from China is an Odin 2 silver interconnect.  The outward build quality and resemblence to the real thing is uncanny - either a cable that got lost from the OEM factory floor, or a remarkable forgery.  My initial reaction to this cable was competent but not compelling enough to replace any of my existing cables.  I have some recent experience with mid-tier Nordorst cables, and I don’t hear the pace and dynamics in this Chinese “Odin”.  The reason I am posting today is that I recently pulled it out of my closet to try with a completely revamped digital front end and I was astounded by what I heard.  It sounds very different from any other interconnect that I have, and in some ways better.  I am leaving it in for the Nordost prescribed 168 hours of burn-in to see where it settles down.  For comparison, my other cables cost between $200 and $500, so I am not saying this forgery is as good as the original, just that it clearly isn’t “garbage”.  And I think it cost me about $45.

kn

Thanks, I went ahead and ordered a 3m pair from Bassmin Audio Store. With the Black Friday discounts, $156 USD tot. They were less $ than the others by a bit and they have the wood ends (FWTW). I have been using Supra Quadrax, I'll be interested in how well they compare. 

I use china made cables for DIY designs.. original china (non brand) cable are never done properly, terminations are not properly soldered / attached, braids of wires not all connected etc.. cables and some terminals as DIY materials are pretty good, resistance is only 5% higher comparing to expensive brands. 

@brad1138 

I purchased mine from Bassmin Audio Store. I paid $279CAD for a 1.5m pair. I think they're an excellent product and very well finished. I went with bananas. There seems to be varying price points for similar looking products. I picked up some inexpensive cardas clear light rca copies and they are garbage. a pair of Odin Gold rca copies @ $65 CAD seem to be as good SQ as the $200 Viborg pair I also have. 

@shawnwes Any update?

I was about to order a pair of Valhalla 2 from Ali, then I noticed they were not the same ones from RM Digital that most are referencing in here. Anyone have any thoughts on these?

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805789562167.html

They are basically the same price, so I would probably change my order to the RM Digital ones, but I do like the wood.

Google is your friend:

https://verafiaudiollc.com/products/vibration-black-hole

Which Ali-E vibration control devices were you using tweak1?

tweak 1

Can you post a link to the Verafi Very Black Holes?

Thanks

How about genuinely good well built cables from China

There are very many serious audiophiles in China and they have had their own home grown brands going back to the 80s, that I know of.

W.r.t the knockoffs on Aliexpress, It reeks all day of some names having/had fab operations in China at some point, bought them en masse and sold them to a exceptionalist & patriotic group of north American audiophiles at 2000% markups, i.e., otherwise known as the patriot price.

https://www.youtube.com/live/3gwPZV8cS3c?si=5LUyvsQvawPAwetl

About 2 weeks ago I replaced el cheapo Ali-E vibration control devices with very reasonably priced VeraFi Very Black Holes under my Audiolab CDT 6000 and was floored. Now have them under all my kit. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED. Plus they have lots of cool kit and accessories

I have about 15 hours on the the Valhalla 2 speaker cable copies which are 1.5m. I’ll give them a month and then will compare against the ones I’ve been using for the last year. Out of the gate I’d say they’re a very good cable and there is a break in period.

@zigstien got similar cable, re-terminated with nice rhodium plugs and voilà! All measurements after some work around came perfect (R, C, L, all at 50-50000Hz)! I don’t take those cables as clone, it’s more like good material for DIY project. Good thing I can cut whatever length I need, without destroying value. 

Couldn’t resist the temptation though and have ordered a pair of Valhalla 2 speaker copies. Actual wire may or may not be the the same but they’re definitely made with machinery that looks capable of putting out the real thing.

I have a pair of unbranded / unterminated Heimdall 2 copies and when you compare close up pics of the construction against pics of real H2s they’re visually twins.

We’ll see how the V2s stack up against my Silversmith Fideliums.

@tweak1 The wires that I do not like as much will go to my rear channel MEHs. For surround duty.😆

Inspired by this thread , ordered a set of 8tc clones from China last year.

Cables showed up in about 3 weeks. Not expecting much, I was pleasantly surprised by the quality, PTFE insulated wire with screwed on brass bananas. Recently was bored and decided to re terminate the cables with some Kimber spades I had laying around from other projects. I was shocked when I removed the original connectors and found the wire had variable sized conductors.

I have ordered few sets of the Xangsane and the 40th anniversary Accuphase clone power cables and also couple of Odin 2 aes/ebu cables. I will report once I get them and try them for few days in my system. I have several AC and IEC connectors of different materials to try with the power cables. I believe the plugs are more important than the wire.

How about the Jinwei cables are they good?

@ellisr63 

Glad to hear. And the best part is Ali--E cables are incredibly inexpensive which allows for experimentation 👊

I have purchased the following wires from Aliexpress with excellent results...

VALLHALA 2 speaker wires

3' XLR Cables....

Odin 2 Gold, Odin 2 silver, Xangsane (the green ones), Xangsane xp9003ag (diy), and I am waiting on the Cardas clear and XLO

Power cables

Odin 2 Gold

ODin 2 silver

Cat 5 cable, Odin 2 gold

usb Cable, Odin 2 gold

I2s cable, Audioquest Thunder

My equipment is.. Jays Audio cd2 mk3, Denafrips Pontus 2, Denafrips Athena, Lumin U1 mini, Roon Rock, and Klipsch k402MEHs, with f20 bass bins, xililca xp4080, Icepower 50asx2btl and 125asx2btl amps!

All of the cables sound great and I am playing around with using them on different drivers to see which cable matches the best on my K402 MEHs...which are configured as a 3 way with a pair of f20 bass horns.

I first tried the Odin 2 gold on my highs and it sounded great, then I added it for my mids and it sounded good too. I have a very clear sound that is a little to dry for my taste...so I added the Xansane  green and it was a def improvement in the mids, as it is not dry sounding anymore and has a little more detail. I hope to have the 9003ag wires assembled next week to see how they compare.

Has anyone tried Cardas, XLO, or Xangsane speaker wires in comparison to Valhalla 2?

For those who would never buy knock-offs fear not, Ali-E has OEM cables too.

About a year ago, after I changed out my Fake name only Nordost Odin 2 cables (XLR and speaker cables) which are very fast, but no fuzz on the peach, probably best with tubes, to Odin 2 Gold I was unable to find a Gold coax, which I felt would compliment the other Golds. On a thread someone had gotten the Odin 2 Gold coax, so I found it on Ali-E but while there I saw a coax from Yangsane that I also ordered. After 10 days of breaking in the Gold 2, including several long sessions with my XLO and Stereophile burn in disks, and hours of listening, I decided to try the Yangsane $43.50/05m + free shipping. WELL! Immediately, it was on a much higher level than the Gold 2, which sounded soft where the Yangsane was fast yet had a natural live quality, and a much more focused and bigger 3D sound stage, and much better bass.

My Orders page is under maintenance, so I was unable to give you that link, but this seem close. FYI they also have RCAs, XLRs and variety of cryoed PCs, but I did not see speaker cables HTH

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804851376190.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000013.2.477b416ca9ar9W&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller&scm=1007.13339.291025.0&scm_id=1007.13339.291025.0&scm-url=1007.13339.291025.0&pvid=b9c1be84-7be6-4bad-9a4a-5fc2e09f2388&_t=gps-id:pcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller,scm-url:1007.13339.291025.0,pvid:b9c1be84-7be6-4bad-9a4a-5fc2e09f2388,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238112%231997&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%2164.00%2128.16%21%21%2164.00%2128.16%21%402101c72a17047369892804133e720e%2112000031413381562%21rec%21US%21128321401%21

My first Ali-E experience was after reading a thread on Agon. The experience was very positive, and the prices were so incredibly cheap compared to the rather expensive WW Ag Eclipses that were gifted to me; matching XLR and speaker cable. What could I expect? Curiosity killed the cat, so I decided to stick my toe in the water buying a fake Nordost Odin 2 coax cable, which at < 1/4 the price of my Pangea coax, it a carbon copy spec-wise of the considerably more expensive DHL. It took a month to arrive to S Florida, but wow Wow WOW, and that without any break in. That experience lead me to then replace my very expensive WW Ag Silver Eclipse XLR, followed by my speaker cable (gifts or I would never could have afforded them), and later most of my power cords. While the Odin 2 coax, XLR and  speaker cables provided much more information, collectively, they were on the dry side in my all SS system (probably great for tubes though). Further research and I replaced the WW with Odin 2 Gold, except for the coax, which was not available then. Finally, someone on another thread had bought the Odin 2 Gold, after some searching I found it, and 25 days later (4 days ago) I inserted it and although in need of break in it was clear that it was what I needed. The next day I used a burn-in disc on repeat for some 14 hours while I was out. That helped a ton. Last night it was sounding really good on Wilson Phillips Greatest hits which always sounded shrill, but with the Odin 2 Gold was quite listenable with a greater sense of separation. I followed them up with Ray LaMontagne Till the Sun Turns Black a very good sounding disc, but now on another level

HTH

@mrdon 😂 expensive cables for that matter cheap cables will never help a poorly implemented audio system. What of the European and Asian companies that manufacture ultra high end audio cables? It is not just an American thing. Hoy Hoy. 

Braurer, 

I do not think I have ever heard such a succinct description of how American cable makers sell their snake oil BS… HEAR, HEAR!!

My own conscience says never buy a knockoff of anything. It cheats the people who took the time and money to develop a good product. I do not have an unlimited budget though.

What I did was get a very nice set of speaker cables when they went on Black Friday sale. 60% off Morrow Cable's SP6's. 

I have some new speaker cables that provide a great more detail than I ever had before and I can sleep at night.

@tksteingraber 

I like your translation.  

What the…I guess we have to translate Raysmtb1’s word definitions to understand his nonsensical  post.
Funny = Compelling     Pretend =  Validate (d)

Harsh🙄

When YOU stop pretending you are into audio and a hobbyist, rather than just a human version of computer malware 🤯

I find it funny out there that there are people who pretend that their expensive cables make a huge difference. Now we have people out there who pretend that they fake pretend cables sound awesome. When does the pretending stop?

@tksteingraber :

You may be a forthcoming seller and  honest that these are knock-offs but future buyers may not be.  I would not re-sell them and chalk it up as experimenting fun

+1. You are 100% right

I bought several of these Nordost copies with the understanding if they did not work out that they should not be resold.  At their prices this is still very low risk and not a big deal.  You may be a forthcoming seller and  honest that these are knock-offs but future buyers may not be.  I would not re-sell them and chalk it up as experimenting fun. BTW I am very happy with mine but I don’t play in the $600+ cable market.

Both coaxes arrived a couple hours ago. Figured I would start with the Odin 2 Gold to compliment my ICs and speaker cables

All I did was treat the connectors with Mad Science Audio Graphene Contact Enhancer. Both will take a few days to be at their best, but already it’s an amazing improvement on literally all aspects of the music; depth, width, height, and bass. Way more relaxed, yet great detail

First CD is Jennifer Nettles Playin With Fire, a bright sounding CD in my system: Well not anymore. After playing it, I put on my XLO Burn in Disc and came downstairs to report

HTH

@nasaman I would either

1. stuff them in the closet

or

2. run some non critical audio video crap with these cables

or

3. tie the next few garbage bags with them

or

4. dissect them to see what’s inside  then tie the next few garbage bags with them

I don’t think I would throw them into a circulation on a used market.

@nasaman 

I would wait until an attorney who actually knows the law to chime in here regarding knowingly selling counterfeit goods.

Even then, the advice may be equal to the fee you are paying for his/her advice.

@hdm Absolutely, thank you. It will be posted and stated clearly as counterfeit and from Aliexpress, China

@audphile1 Yes, it did cross my mind that buying them fake, try them out and resell them if they didn't work out.

Most of my cables and cords were purchased used here or from USAmart, ranging from $300 to $1,300. Except for 1 HFC Orchestral XLR I bought from Rick for $6,600 (currently for sale).

The reason I decided to try these fake Odins is that, given the price and performance ratio, they could be a bargain and if they were actually authentic from Nordost, I’d hit the jackpot. So I bought 1, and because it looks and feels acceptable and decently sounding, I bought 5 more. However, in my main system, they don’t perform as well as my other brands like Sablon Audio, Cerious Tech, Virtual Dynamics, HFC, MIT, Harmonic Tech, Acoustic Zen (very similar sounding), Kimber Kable, Verastarr, and Iced Age Audio (best bang for buck but it is what it is)

These fake Odin cords didn’t stay long in my main system but quickly got moved to my 2nd HT system for burn-in and have stayed there since. Occasionally, I bring 1 up to my main, but it is what it is—(very) good sounding but lacking in soul and musicality. Still, very good cords, great material, and very well built structure, they can be valued over $100.

Nasaman:  Just be honest about what they are and sell them on. It would be no different than selling an imitation watch or handbag. Just clearly identify what they actually are.

nasaman

452 posts

12-27-2023 at 12:56am 

So I have bought a few fake Odins pwr cords from AliExpress more than a year ago and had my fun with them in my system.
Quick Q today is can I resell them? And what would I enter on the listing?

TIA

@nasaman did this question cross your mind when you were buying these Chinese produced fakes? And if it did, walk us through your thought process please…

First I replaced PCs with Odin 2 on my dac/pre and EVS amp. They were fast but in my system a tad on the sterile sound. I replaced the EVS PC with Odin 2 Gold, also for my speaker cables. These are a much better match in my SS system. Dac/pre I am using a Tekline PC (circa early 2000s) and a bargain PC between CorePower 1800 to 20 ampdedicated outlet from Amazon Audiophile HiFi Power Cord, 10AWG AC Main Supply Cable with US-C15 Female Connector, 4N OFC 99.998% 3 Cores Cable for Speaker, Subwoofer, Turntable, AMP, DAC. (Rhodium Plated 10 AWG, 1.5M / 5.0 Feet) $32! Since then I have been in search of a Odin 2 Gold coax, which I recently found on Ali-E for < $50 but also bought a Grey Knight High Fidelity OCC Silver Plated Coaxial SPDIF Subwoofer RCA TV HD Audio Cable 75 Ohm Digital Audio Decoder Cable for $46. Both should arrive early next week. Anxious to hear if these better the Odin 2 coax, which sounds really good on well recorded CDs, but on the thin side with the many that are not recorded well. Fingers crossed YMMV

FYI: I should be getting my LSA Voyager GaN 350 back in service soon. As much as I like my EVS 1200, I much prefered the Voyager. So, we'll see soon if that's still the case. If not, I'll send it to EVS for mods

HTH

So I have bought a few fake Odins pwr cords from AliExpress more than a year ago and had my fun with them in my system.
Quick Q today is can I resell them? And what would I enter on the listing?

TIA

A little off topic but is anybody aware of a decent power conditioner from Aliexpress?  

@hdm They’re absolutely shameless re-selling a $60 cable for $180 with purchase of an Equi Core (which I hear are quite nice). Wonder if there’s a knockoff Equi Core?

@tweak1 Thanks…wow aren’t those Silver WW cables $3500+.   So interesting how system dependent cables and tweaks can be.  Maybe having several tube components make an impact on these IC’s warmth sound. Who knows just very happy the way they sound!

@tksteingraber 

I started out with Odin 2 Silver ICs, coax and PCs with WW Series 8 silver speaker cables,when I replaced the WWs with Odin 2 everything got faster with darker sound stage, BUT, the warmth was gone. I replaced them with Odin 2 Gold and am very happy. I put the Odin 2 Silver on my video set up where it sounds VG

HTH

Thyname:

https://www.underwoodhifi.com/products/valiant

vs. 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002703438580.html?algo_pvid=50339fa4-c047-49f7-96f9-1887b596a6ce&algo_exp_id=50339fa4-c047-49f7-96f9-1887b596a6ce-7&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21CAD%2149.92%2139.93%21%21%2135.33%21%21%402101fb1916998485830495047e6d57%2112000021782946095%21sea%21CA%21701030016%21&curPageLogUid=HKF0CnkTu2Zo

Click the "view more" button in the Aliexpress ad as well.