Rel vs the world

REL Subwoofer Cable Upgrade for $20. Thanks for watching.

https://youtu.be/e45ZuxQcizw

@bjesien , Go with a manufacturer (no matter who it is) that offers more DOFs to tweak your system if your sub doesn’t just magically integrate. This is especially true if you have a high end 2 channel system and may not have all the additional frills that come with a flagship receiver (bass management, PEQ etc). Variable phase control, PEQ adjustments, etc that come on Rythmik receivers, for instance, is a Godsend. You can also explore other brands and see what is out there. I have not explored what SVS has these days in their advanced models. So, i’m not much help there. But, a blasted li’l 0-180 phase flip switch and no PEQ "may" not cut it even if the marketing department from REL insisted that it’s sufficient and you don’t need anything more.

Servo control can be quite advantageous for a sub driver if implemented right and help with its deficiencies, a.k.a possibly cut down the driver’s cost. It is one of the things Rythmik brags about (their patent, etc) i suppose. I believe Yamaha tinkers with some form of it too at times. These are nowhere near as insane as some of the control systems we deploy in my industry (aerospace) or some other industries out there. But, to my ears, it looks like Rythmik’s engineer has done a decent job for the simpler application that it is... Take it from a controls engineer, there are actually some free lunches out there in the world of controls. In many other sister fields of engineering, a free lunch is very hard to come by.

Also, let me add "IN MY EXPERIENCE, NOT EVERYONE ELSE’S" to all my statements above and protect myself from enraged fanboys...lol

@deep_333 thats impressive! The Rel812 is supposed to be very good.
I was thinking of getting 4x F18 with the black aluminum cone and piano finish.

Haha yes we love to defend what works especially when we lay our hard earned money.out.  I for one can tell you that the SVS SB3000 beats the Rel S/3, but that's in my room and my opinion.  @deep_333 thanks for the detailed response- the only thing that makes me pause about trying the Rythmic is the cool app that SVS has that allows you to dial in the sub much like Roon allows adjustments.  It's nice to be able to adjust on the fly based on the genre or recording.   I'll probably give the Rythmic a try.  One thing I love about Rel is their marketing- those stacks of subs look awesome. 

@deep_333,

There are plenty of user testimonials relating to REL’s seamless integration. There is no marketing magic or gimmicks in play :-)

I am happy for you that found a ‘cheap’ alternative to REL subs.

Peace!

@trentmemphis, Ah yes, the longstanding REL marketing magic of "seamless integration" like no other sub out there apparently! I guess the power of suggestion can work wonders too...Make some other guy who spent years with it look rude and silly (when i said it was my personal experience and there may be differing opinions/experiences).

Either way, good for you.

Don't let anyone tell you that manual integration is a easy peasy thing to do and the RELs do it just so seamlessly. It is simply not true

Maybe it didn't work that way for you, in your room, with your system.  It did for me.

The Rythmiks might be fantastic subs.  If I tried them, I might like them even better than RELs.  I simply have no idea; I've never heard them.  Regardless, there was nothing in what I said about my experience integrating REL subs that is "simply not true."  Following the manual process outlined by REL gave me, and apparently others, results I am extremely happy with. 

Acoustics is hard.  Perceived acoustics, even harder.  Anybody's mileage may vary.  But "simply not true" is just rude and silly.

@bjesien , If you a) have a dedicated room for music b) comfortable working with flatpacks/woodworking (a.k.a going the DIY route) c) don't mind the towering size (a.k.a very low WifeApprovalFactor), i would recommend the GR Research open baffle dipoles. It is hands down the best you can do for music, IMO. I have these in a dedicated 2 channel music room.

Otherwise, your next best option would be the sealed Rythmik F12G which have the GR research drivers. I use them for 80ish% music (20ish% movies) in a 5.2 setup with the Elac Adante series speakers. I use it for 2 channel and multichannel music (SACDs, blu-ray audio). For movies, i tend to crank up the sub levels on my receiver about 3 db and i have a 1 click setting for making the change. They dig real low btw and makes you feel things your soul's been craving all along (lol). I have not felt the need to try ported options just for movies.

With companies like SVS, REL, etc, you are also paying 40 to 50% of the cost to the dealer middleman for not doing much these days. Rythmik sells manufacturer direct and they are a Texas homegrown company. You tend to get better quality drivers etc at the same pricepoint. Our new political enterprise has been slapping tariffs on European imports as well. So, you may be paying that in your price on some imports these days too (not too sure). This becomes a contentious topic, so i'll leave it there. With Rythmiks, you also get more DOFs (variable phase, peq, etc) for better manual integration if you don't have bass management. Don't let anyone tell you that manual integration is a easy peasy thing to do and the RELs do it just so seamlessly. It is simply not true and proper integration takes a significant amount of measurements, time and effort. As a music guy mostly, I have been hitting my head with frustration on various subwoofers i've owned for 20 years. Long story short, my frustration has ended and i'm extremely happy and content after my Rythmik+GR research discovery. This is my personal experience. Other forum opinions/experiences may differ, of course.

@smodtactical, the pair of Rythmik F12Gs replaced a pair of Rel S series 812s

I've owned the Martin Logan Depth i, HSU, dual SVS SB Ultra 15s & 16s, dual JL Audio F110 v2s with their CR1 external crossover, JL Audio F112 v2, dual REL Carbon Limited, and now I have dual REL G1 MKII subwoofers. In my system I prefer RELs for 2-channel. RELs simply disappear in my system and you really don't know they're on, until you turn them off. In my opinion JL Audio hit harder, but I could never get either the F110s or F112 to disappear. If I required a subwoofer for HT only, I would choose SVS. If 50/50 music and HT I would choose JL Audio. For music and occasionally HT, RELs are my preferred subwoofers. 

deep_333 have you had the opportunity to compare the Rythmik to SVS?  I just came off a 3 month dac shootout and am focusing on bass now.  I value tuneful and tight bass but occasionally like to let loose and rattle the bones.  The specs on the the two are so similar I wonder if it's worth the time and shipping, etc.  Anyone else compare these?  

I am using a pair of JL  Audio  E-112 subs in my two channel rig, so far they are sounding  very good, but still working on getting them integrated  to my mains. Several years ago I was using a pair of Rythmik, F-12G  which I found to be excellent, but sold before using them with my current speakers. 

@decatholon1991 What did you think about the Fathom 113s vs Rel no 25?
@deep_333: Which rels did you have before your Rythmiks?

After I discovered Rythmik and got two of these (with Danny’s drivers), my RELs got sold quickly...The REL hype train crashed hard!

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12G.html

I also have 2 of Danny’s DIY open baffle dipoles to help my maggies in a 2nd room.

Danny Richie is a gift to mankind!
And America makes the best subs...It sure isn’t England! (Patriotic Brits are gonna hate me today lol).

I've owned the Stadium 3 and S/3 and now a SVS SB3000.  I like how SVS uses an app to dial it in, plus it goes subsonic, which is nice.  I like the sealed box my system.  I would like to know which @Audiorusty thinks has the most chest thumping slam.   

I had several (2 subs) REL subs, Martin Logan Gothic,  Balancedforce 210, Velodyne DD10”, and evening Miller & Kreiel. I went with the JL Audio Fathom 113’s and didn’t look back. I’ve sampled the REL No.25. I’m running the Wilson Audio Maxx 2 which in theory don’t need a sub or two for that matter. With the Wilson Audio Watch Dog Crossover, it works wonderfully with the JL Fathom 113’s. You can’t go wrong with the REL No. 25, Martin Logan Balancedforce 210 or 212 or the JL Audio Fathom 112 or 113 in my opinion I’m in Audiophile Heaven. 

I can't even tell they are in the room until I listen with them turned off.

This has been my experience, as well.  The bass is just there.  It doesn't stand out.  You don't notice the subs.  You just have good bass, which you notice immediately if you shut them off.

I can't really compare my RELs to other brands, though.  I do own an SVS cylinder sub I use for movies, and it is great for that.  I've never tried it for music, so I can't say.  I used to have a Def Tech SuperCube sub, which got killed by lightning and replaced with the SVS, but again, I never really used it for music much, and it's long gone, so I certainly can't compare it.

What I can say is that whatever REL is doing with their high-level circuit, it works as advertised.  Follow the setup procedure they recommend as closely as you reasonably can in your room, and the subs (T9i's, in my case) do what REL says they'll do.  That's a really nice thing to get in a product.

I went from “I’m not running subs no matter what” to buying 2 Rythmiks. I’m a Rythmik fan. Bought 2 for less than 1 t9.

I currently own and I am using a REL, Rythmik and SVS subs in my system. What would you like to know?

Look into DEBRA or SWARM subs. They produce less bass nodes in your room. Less money than one REL 25. Made in US. 

@tuberollin

agree that stereo subs are vastly superior to a single sub

rel’s are terrific, not to say there aren’t other excellent, musical subs out there

anyone learning about subs applied to two channel hifi should read any rel sub manual cover to cover - there is much explanation there about what is to be achieved and how to achieve it

there was a time, in the late 2000’s iirc, where rel moved their manufacturing to china from the uk, they had reliability issues with their amp modules for a time... now it is well sorted out i believe

I have two RELs and I like them very much. I tried a few other brands and none came across as integrated and smooth sounding as the RELs. I can't even tell they are in the room until I listen with them turned off.

There are many happy audiophiles who believe Rythmik’s servo design subs are - at a minimum - on par with REL’s top subs, if not better.  I know mine marries very nicely with my MMGs. Highly adjustable, a fast and agile paper cone, and an excellent value price-wise.
Anyone looking for a good, musical sub is doing him- or herself a serious disservice if they don’t investigate the Rythmik line.

I have tried few top tier subs and nothing came close to matching REL’s agility and uncanny ability to gel with your main speakers. They do deliver on the promise!

I have not tried No. 25 but a pair of Carbon Limited in my 15’ D x 30’ W delivers ample high quality bass.

Don't forget to investigate SVS.
Another excellent manufacturer!

Don’t confuse timbre with speed and impact. I’ve never considered nor experienced cone materials to color the sound in the 1000+ subwoofers I’ve bought, built (cabinets) & installed. There is a profound effect on the quality of sound reproduction however. Dynamics, transients, etc. The non distorted speed of a sub directly relates to how well it will not just integrate but seamlessly blend and disappear. 
For all their exotic terms quality mfg’s are all really just trying to use the lightest material, that will not flex/warp, under the Enormous loads it is subjected to when creating atmospheric pressures. 
Then as you x/o point increases timing becomes more apparent. REL places significant emphasis on their hi level input quality & super low latency. And I have to agree it does work very well. Other mfg’s do not place such emphasis here and this does set Rel apart from the pack. 
I personally own REL’s. They deliver on their promises.

I do not have experience with the brands stated in the OP so cannot give direct experience there. 
Next on my list, and I’m extremely keen to build & hear, are the GR Research Servo Subs. 
Why? The tech in those (amp incl.) also set them apart from the pack. I have read up a-lot on those subs and I couldn’t tell you what the cone material(s) are... irellevant. What’s relevant is they’ve clearly selected materials that match their desired outcome. Very fast bass response with inaudible distortion. 
Ppl mix timbre up with transients & distortion/speed & mud. 

quality of subs matters, but in a multiple array they do not need to all be identical

Great, another incoming copy/paste diatribe.

What about Rythmik and their servo subs ?
@miller I am totally on board for more subs... but do you think that the actually quality of the subs doesn't matter at all?

Lots of subs have high level connections, not just rel 

Second what dave_b said

I have the cheapest REL sub (which replaced a KEF sub) in my 3K office system, and that REL is the major reason for why that system does not make me miss my 25K main system (which does not rely on subs) while I am at work.

I am happy with my RELs. They integrate well with their high level connectors. I think they are well priced for what you get. 

equally good or better results with the more affordable subwoofers?

"better results with more subwoofers?"
FIFY

I've read really good reviews on the REL subs. I was not able to audition them in my area. I purchased (2) JL Audio f112v2 Fathoms for my music only room. I am happy with them. One issue I faced was weight. My subs weigh about 120 lbs. each. The 25's weigh over 160 lbs. My wife really gets tired of moving the JL's for me. That said, I know REL offers many different subs. Good luck.

like dave said

rel and speakon high level connections... how they should be used... two peas in a pod

I like my REL because the Speakon connection tracks my amps output just like my speakers...no RCA OR BALANCED cables that go through several extra circuits and connections to deliver an approximation of what my amp is truly outputting.