I never thought Vandersteen's were a very dynamic speaker, always a bit on the laid-back side.
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Thanks for all your input. I appreciate it.
Question to those who say more power equals better sound: Could the differences you heard going from a low wattage to a high wattage amp just be atributed to the different manufacturers voicing their gear differently (assuming the increased power wasn't from the same company)? Has anyone gone from a 25 watt Pass to a 150 watt Pass from the same era? Or any other company that produces a broad range of the same power amps with the only difference being their wattage?
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I don’t think you need 200 watts for the 3a Signatures in that size room. But I think those speakers like more power than 10 watts. I have them and they sound better to me with more power - particularly with high current amps. The bass is more controlled and everything gets a little more detailed. They’re great speakers and you van get more out of them with a better amp.
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Power and listening level are tricky. A 3dB increase in listening level is often referred to as a just noticeable difference...but it requires 2x the power. A 10dB difference in listening level is subjectively twice as loud...ye requires 10x the power. And then we come to peak to RMS levels. With non-compressed material a peak to RMS level of 10-15 dB is often found - which requires transient power 10-30x the average level. So the peak requirements at higher listening levels can quickly escalate.
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Remember, it is not only the raw power output specification that matters. Impedance matching of components in the amplification chain (preamp, phono preamp, and power amp) and slew rate are critical. Assuring the amp can handle the low impedance spec of the speakers is also critical. Impedance matching affects sound quality by permitting optimal power transfer which results in less distortion, a clearer sound, more impactful bass, and improved staging over a mismatched system. Slew rate, or how quickly an amplifier reacts electronically to rapid changes in input signal impacts distortion and dynamics in compositions with fast changing and dynamic passages/phrases. Finally, amplifier quality has an effect. My most recent experience in moving from a respected but vintage 300 WPC amp to a 105 WPC modern high quality integrated was significant improvements in all areas of SQ and no losses, including dynamics, staging, and image density. It just so happens the more modern integrated has a higher slew as will as modern design and better build. Two caveats:
1: specification are for designers: use you ears.
2: in general, I agree in the most part with all who stated greater power provides more musical authority … most of the time … but other factors enter into the game as is my experience with my recent change .
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Interesting topic and one I’ve wondered about. I have the meters on my Accuphase amp set to freeze at the highest wattage during a listening session. Even listening to Mahler Symphonies at 70 db I never exceed more than 1 Watt. My speakers are Harbeth C7ES-XD at 87db efficiency and 6 Ohms and my amp is rated at 150 Watts at 8 Ohms. So I have plenty of reserve power. I guess I could gave been fine with an amp at half the power.
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some speakers thrive off the headroom high power amps provide.
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Source Material plays a big part as well… So much stuff we remember sounding great from our teen years just doesn’t cut it on the reveling systems we’ve acquired over the years in our pursuits of sonic bliss, maybe it was the drugs… who knows, LOL…. Heck, even a lot of today’s so called “Remastered” material sounds worse that then originals, many times it’s just S#!t on a Gold Plate, if ya know what I mean. Try some really well recorded material and if it sounds great, kinda narrows down the field as to what the issue could be. Been there so I get it.
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I don't know but they are always high.
Some people think, even people posting in this thread, that more power means "better" sound. But if at normal listening volume you're listening to 1 watt, then you have to hope the 300W applifier you have has a good first watt and they didn't blow the budget on the high power.
Jerry
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If a speaker manufacturer recommends higher power, then what likely will happen with higher power is a more powerful and dynamic sound. You can get good sound with the lower power amp, but it will not be as powerful or forceful with music that calls for that grunt. This applies to a small room too.
For example, Led Zeppelin's When the Levee Breaks. Listening to that song on my higher power requirement speakers with the lower powered Benchmark AHB2 vs the CODA #16 is a huge study on contrasts. Both sound good but with the CODA you feel the music in your bones.
If you are listening to Sarah McLachlan (as I am typing this) it does not matter if I used the AHB2 or the CODA #16.
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My Vandersteen 3A's typically sounded fine with 50 watt amp, but with some music really came alive with 200 high current watts...I'm sure if I used them in a small room, at lower volume, and less dynamic music...their recommendations are simply a general guideline for most listeners, not an absolute...
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why do speaker manufacturers even list the recommended amplification numbers
it reminds of windows always recommending a ton of RAM and hard drive space, for the IT economy to grow nicely
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While distortion is a speaker killer along with heat in the speaker voice coil .the manufacture gives guidelines for protection and so you don't get mad at them and write nasty blogs. It is true transients can require alot of watts. I have big monoblocks that never clip due to using not at thier max which is where clipping occures.yes I watch the mcintosh 1.25 run at 1 watt and sometimes wounder why I have up to 4k in transients.if you are driving inefficient speakers then you would use the wattage. Enjoy the music and the experiments
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@bjesien
+1
My history was to use larger, higher current & power amps and to be rewarded with greater dynamics and soundstage each time. There are two aspects. Quality and quantity of the amplification. I always moved up in both… and it was always cost effective for me.
Tubed amplification is very different in virtually all respects. The base requirements and slope of the line on parameters.
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It just gives you an idea about how much power you might need. I'm with you though, I don't have much need for high power amps even though I'm sacrificing some bass control and loudness.
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Dynamics, size of stage and image can be sacrificed. It can be hard to know unless you try higher power.
Simple example I had a pair of Harbeth's with a 12 watt tube amp. Sounded great but really came alive with 80 watts or more. Missed that tube sound so it was either go big with tubes or stay with 12 wpc or be satisfied with the SS amp. Lots of options.
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