I've recently acquired a SEP amp based on kt88's and while it presents well in many ways it lacks the speed of my push-pull and ss amps which is typical. Thus I'm looking for some nice and well rounded sounding speaker cables (non-biwire) and interconnects (single-ended) that excel in speed, tempo, PRAT, whatever you wanna call it to try to get some of the head nodding and toe-tapping back.
Transparency, detail, open soundstage are basic requisites as well. I would also consider maybe changing out my
psu umbilical cord, usb, and digital coax. I understand that this will likely involve some or all silver in the makeup of the cables, and while I like a lit-up sound- an overly bright anything will usually get quickly replaced. The budget is not high at $100-$300 new or used but may make considerations for something exceptional that fits the bill. I've gathered that some of the following may work- please feel free to comment on those as well, but I would also like to get some more suggestions. Thanks!
Mapleshade Double Helix
DH Labs Silver Sonic T-14
Signal Cable Silver Resolution
In handling dozens of sets and hundreds of individual cables over the years, I do not come to the conclusion that cables can make a system sound "faster," but that this is predominantly a function of the combination of components and speakers. Cables do influence how well you hear the attributes of the system.
Don't get hung up on silver conductor, as it can lean toward the bright, edgy end of things.
At your price point you would be best going with used cables, and do not neglect aftermarket power cords, as they are critical to superior sound. If you have serviceable speaker cables and ICs, I suggest you seek a couple nice, used power cords to start. You'll be shocked at the improvement.
Seriously consider that you made a mistake in moving from SS to tube amp. You could swap many cables and still be unhappy. If the change is too extreme from what you enjoyed more, then likely cables alone will not suffice to bring full enjoyment. My guess is the primary difference in performance is the bass, which is likely to be wooly and indistinct in comparison. If so, cables will not reverse that, but you must accept it as a fundamental difference in amps. You could change speakers to more efficient ones, or go back to a SS amp. But, cables do not allow a reversal of such characteristics.
"
Seriously consider that you made a mistake in moving from SS to tube
amp. You could swap many cables and still be unhappy. If the change is
too extreme from what you enjoyed more, then likely cables alone will
not suffice to bring full enjoyment. My guess is the primary difference
in performance is the bass, which is likely to be wooly and indistinct
in comparison. If so, cables will not reverse that, but you must accept
it as a fundamental difference in amps. You could change speakers to
more efficient ones, or go back to a SS amp. But, cables do not allow a
reversal of such characteristics.
" Fully agree.
Recently, I replaced just one power cord and what you seek popped like flipping a switch
Now, I already have 2 Wire World Electra 7 PCs @ $240 (one to the Oppo 105 the other to my EVS 1200 class D amp), but I had a 3rd hanging around after eliminating my preamp due to using my Oppo 105 VVC direct to my amp, which I was able to do after upgrading the power supply and IEC (see ebay). FYI all ICs and speaker cables are WW
WELL, I protect/condition my gear with a Core Power 1800, which is connected to a 20 amp dedicated line where I had been using a ~ 15 year old boutique PC @ $800. How much of an improvement (if at all) would it make to replace the $800 PC with my WW Electra 7 you ask... are you sitting down?
EVERYTHING came alive from piano notes to kick and snare drum to the sound stage. PRAT, PRAT and more PRAT
Most people attribute the quality of "speed" to a particular quality of mid-bass, which is a factor of speakers/amp. No cable is going to compensate for the significantly different electrical properties of your new SEP amp. It is just not going to happen.
Thank you everyone for all the great suggestions thus far. In reading some of your comments. I now realize I should have qualified some of my statements and will first start with a list of my modest gear I am using for a better picture of what I am working with and some further explanation of my expectations.
Lector Digicode 2.24 Musical Fidelity V-dac
Prima Luna Dialogue Premium Vincent K-35 Reisong A20 Audio Alchemy DPA-1
JBL L100 Classic
Kef r3 Kef ls50 Monitor Audio Silver 2 Definitive Technology SM45
Triangle Esprit EZ (on its way)
Supra USB 2.0 SVS Soundpath Ultra IXOS interconnects Digital cable (can't remember the name) Triode Wire Lab PC's
The amp in question is a Reisong A20 that I bought new here cheaply on the Gon and was meant to be an experiment to see if I couldn't cheaply fill a void as I understand no amp can do all things which is why I keep a few on hand for synergy purposes. I've since upgraded the tubes to Gold Lion kt88's and some WE pre tubes. and run it with a Triode Labs pc. I may consider modding it someday as it is a good looking unit but I'm not there yet. It is surprisingly quite good and really isn't terribly slow with the L100 Classics which is 90db. I'm not here to start a flame war but I am squarely in the camp that prefers tube amps to ss for over 15 years and understand both have their virtues and non-virtues. I also understand that the most logical step is to get even more efficient speakers and will do that someday- but as I like to buy used, I've yet to come across a pair to bring home that I think I might like at the price I'm looking for. Since my suite of cables are quite competent though not awe-inspiring- I thought maybe I could gently help push the signal through a bit quicker by upgrading some cables in which all of my gear can benefit from- not just, but mainly the SEP, and really I'm not expecting miracles in the speed department. All of the recommendations thus far sound interesting and I will look into all of them. Please keep them coming, thank you!
Hate to say but you will never get what you are seeking with a change in speaker cables. Time to go back to solid state amp as others have implied or said. Save your hard earned money, sell what you have, and upgrade. Not saying SS is better. But for your situation, it may be better.
Hey mapman- here's a subsequent post I put up with a bit more info, but with this setup in question out of the list would be JBL L100 Classic or Monitor Audio Silver 2 and likely Triangle Titus EZ with a Reisong A20.
Thank you everyone for all the great suggestions thus far. In reading some of your comments. I now realize I should have qualified some of my statements and will first start with a list of my modest gear I am using for a better picture of what I am working with and some further explanation of my expectations.
Lector Digicode 2.24 Musical Fidelity V-dac
Prima Luna Dialogue Premium Vincent K-35 Reisong A20 Audio Alchemy DPA-1
JBL L100 Classic Kef r3 Kef ls50 Monitor Audio Silver 2 Definitive Technology SM45 Triangle Esprit EZ (on its way)
Supra USB 2.0 SVS Soundpath Ultra IXOS interconnects Digital cable (can't remember the name) Triode Wire Lab PC's
The amp in question is a Reisong A20 that I bought new here cheaply on the Gon and was meant to be an experiment to see if I couldn't cheaply fill a void as I understand no amp can do all things which is why I keep a few on hand for synergy purposes. I've since upgraded the tubes to Gold Lion kt88's and some WE pre tubes. and run it with a Triode Labs pc. I may consider modding it someday as it is a good looking unit but I'm not there yet. It is surprisingly quite good and really isn't terribly slow with the L100 Classics which is 90db. I'm not here to start a flame war but I am squarely in the camp that prefers tube amps to ss for over 15 years and understand both have their virtues and non-virtues. I also understand that the most logical step is to get even more efficient speakers and will do that someday- but as I like to buy used, I've yet to come across a pair to bring home that I think I might like at the price I'm looking for. Since my suite of cables are quite competent though not awe-inspiring- I thought maybe I could gently help push the signal through a bit quicker by upgrading some cables in which all of my gear can benefit from- not just, but mainly the SEP, and really I'm not expecting miracles in the speed department. All of the recommendations thus far sound interesting and I will look into all of them. Please keep them coming, thank you
Look, I appreciate the comments and understand the viewpoints about how this may be a flawed experiment. However, as I've said, this amp really is not that slow with the JBL's which is a quick sounding speaker and I know that I have heard people (some heree on this thread) and many a cable manufacturer (though I do not take their word as gospel) to attribute gains in prat and tempo from cables. Again, I'm not expecting ss speed nor is that what I am necessarily after- I'm just looking for an incremental improvement. If I want to listen to something with more boogie factor I can listen to my Vincent K-35 with Genlex kt-77, or next in line would be my Dialogue Premium, or my Audio Alchemy DPA1 (ss)- which all provide plenty of, especially the Vincent. It would just be nice to see if I can make a small improvement here with this SEP as it was not a planned or big purchase- there are no high stakes here. If it doesn't work- then I'll still have a cheap amp that plays fantastic with jazz, vocals, and even down to mid-tempo electronic music. I'll also likely have nicer cables from the upgrade that the rest of my gear can benefit from.
I'm sooooo glad the supercar enthusiast have come out of the woodwork to share their poignant thoughts on how they've ingeniously figured out how to use super-fast cars in their audio systems. Bravo guys.
Its just that the idea of using a cable to fix a problem elsewhere is such a flawed band-aid approach I'd rather see it dismissed than pursued. Seriously. Get a 911 if you can't afford the Jesko. Or get whatever Synergistic Research you can afford. Don't know if you will call them fast or not, but more likely than not you will call them good.
The reason your system sounds slow is your Reisong amp can't power your speakers properly. Cables really won't help the matter, a different SET amp with a better power supply would be better. I wouldn't waste money buying new cables to save a sub-optimal amp speaker interface.
“And by the way, physicists, when describing things like acceleration do not use the word "fast".” Mark Watney: “The Martian”Sorry. I have nothing useful to add to this conversation. I wish I did, but I don’t.
Not quite sure what a "fast sounding cable" means :-) I am guessing it is the "schlack" sound it makes when it hits the back of an audiophile when used as whip ???
@rafevw- Well it's a good thing I'm not a physicist.
@Jond- if you've read my comments you would realize that there would be no waste of money as trying to marginally improve the tempo of this amp would not be the only purpose of upgrading my cables. The amp is also not a flea watt amp and weighs 40lbs and has plenty of headroom from my preferred listening levels- but I also understand what you are trying to convey and there is merit in it.
@millercarbon- Its MY experiment and I shall do as I please =) Truly though, I understand where you are coming from and had my own doubts before making this post, but this amp has been very responsive to every change I've made to it including improved tempo with tube changes which leads me to believe that it MAY respond positively to cables that excel in "acceleration" (you like that! @rafevw) signature to them. If it doesn't work- NO BIG DEAL as I'd like to upgrade some of my cables anyway for the rest of my gear. But if it does add a bit of speed- then WhEEEEEeh!
This will be my last comment- thank you to all who contributed with your recommendations.
I'd like a recommendation for cables that make Johnny Cash sound like Hip-Hop. Just can't get there.
Point being, I can see cables affecting tone. But the speed of light is what it is. The closest you could get would be whatever frequency range you associate with "fast" could be emphasized.
Cables will not speed up your system plain and simple.
In terms of a what a good cable will offer - more inner detail, air, extension, tone, and dynamics - NOT transient speed. That said - I’m a big believer in silver cables. I use audiosensibility signature line.
Your digital front end is where you need to focus - the DAC and streamer/transport are absolutely critical for transient fidelity and speed/timing (PRAT). This is where you should be focusing.
The major characteristics of digital as you move up the chain are in regards to timing, and jitter. This means : transients, PRAT, staging, imaging and detail. Simple changes like using the i2s input of a DAC will help in this regard. The power supply to your digital gear is very important as well.
This is how you will be able to optimize around your amp (assuming it can ever be "quick" enough for your needs)
One reason why manufacturers and audiophiles cryogenically treat cables 🥶 is because they sound faster. They also sound smoother and more musical. 🎶 I would go as far as to say if you’re not cryoing your cables you really can’t compete. In fact everything should be cryo’d. No, it doesn’t make the electrons or photons run faster, it’s like a perception thing. 😳
I had the Speltz Anti Cables in my system for about 5 years. Previously used MIT 700+ and it was like a cool Canadian front came through with the Speltz. I then switched to the Mogami cabling and I heard what was missing with the Speltz. Signature of the Speltz is mostly aimed at mid treble. The Mogami (inexpensive but excellent cabling) brings in more layers of the audio spectrum. Perhaps you’re missing detail and mistaking this for sluggishness? Both cables are cheap enough to try.
@AG- My dac has a separate power supply is r2r and uses 4 -12at7 gold lion tubes and me thinks it is pretty tits. I've been on a deep, deep....very quite deep dive on transports the past few weeks and agree this area of my system can use a booster seat as I stopped using a cd transport some years ago.
@tweak1- pretty sweet that you were able to goose up the prat factor so much with
Wire World Electra 7 PC's- I definitely want to try those cords and am on the hunt, thanks for the tip.
@arro222- Maybe? However, my body will usually gyrate in one way or another if the tempo is right. In some of my research, I think all of my gear will likely benefit from tweak1's suggestion of
Wire World Electra 7 PC cords (nice science that makes sense to me and I may spring for the silver edition) the Snake River Audio Boomslang and the cables from Audio Envy look enticing as well.
I've never been one to focus on cables TOO much and am cautiously wading into the murky waters of audio cables. I haven't looked at the other suggestions yet but will in time. In my opinion, my cabling is just decent, but I know for sure they are not delivering all that may be possible therefore can be improved upon and maybe just enough for what I'm after...maybe.
@geoffkait-
I didn't know cryo'd cables made things sound faster- thanks for the tip.
nice and well rounded sounding speaker cables (non-biwire) and interconnects (single-ended) that excel in speed, tempo, PRAT, what
well...this an idea I did not know about....’a well rounded SOUNDING cables’...you just stick them directly into your ears, right?....money saved on speakers can go for another set of those SOUNDING cables
See if you can find a pair of Amadi interconnects for your pre/pwr connection. They show up used every once in a while. I have them as a "fast" or "silver" reference when I think my regular AQ Columbia’s are veiling something. Don’t take my word for it, buy some wires and find out for yourself. Good cables will always re-sell. And don’t evaluate anything until it’s broken-in!
Hello, I agree with the amplifier points. SS was more your speed. Maybe try a higher guage speeker cable. Also try the upgrade on the power cord. Nordost blue heaven is on all of my components. Try before you by otherwise you will be going down the rabbit hole. Go 10GA on the speaker cable. If it works upgrade to something you like.
Check out Audio Art cables.I've used them before in another system and they may be exactly what you're looking for.They are not expensive and have a thirty day trial in case they don't work out.
I'd recommend starting with a used SOTM or Sonore model and see if that moves you in the right direction.
I think taking care of your digital front end will yield the most results for the elements you are looking for. It's amazing how much more complete the music sounds.
After that you can spoil yourself with some cables ;)
At your price point, I'd also suggest Amadi Maddie Signature, Darwin Silver or Darwin Ascension. They are all silver cables and really transformed my system from good to very good. They allow you to hear deeply into the mix with great detail but no harshness. I used several of their cables in a second system after spending quite a bit more on my primary system.
I made a pair of new power mono blocks. That included hardwired speaker cables into the amps. (So I can't guarantee if the sound is because of the speaker wire or the new amplifiers.)
But immediately when I connected them I noticed that they were much "faster" then the old stuff.
The thing why I think it may be the speaker cables and why I don't know. Is that it were the first time I used silver. And I can't swap between different cables..
I built speaker cables with solid singel fine silver dead soft conductor. Withe cotton sleeve and a wowed shield and a copper foil shield. Around each conductor like chords top of the line speaker cable.
The thing is that it is so easy to get used to it :)
I'm in the - get another SS amp crowd. Good luck with getting the magic you're looking for. This is part of the fun/frustration of this ridiculous hobby. :)
I vote for Transparent Audio Reference Gen 5 interconnect and speaker cables. I found Reference Gen 5 to deliver exceptional smoothness, tight articulated base, air and spaciousness with remarkable stage illusion. Reference level Gen 5 is the most musical cables I have ever experienced.
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