Raven Blackhawk LE... am I going to be disappointed?

Yea, it good old snratio, up to his old tricks, and off his meds again. Noticed him hours ago posting the same old crap.

All the best,
Nonoise

@chicagoblue1977,

I  am tubed out with the Quicksilver Integrated and the Blackhawk 3.1. None of them touch my Simaudio 340i.

I suspect that the 340i also sounds "different" than the tube integrated's, with Sim's high S/N ratio and channel separation creating a black background with excellent imaging and soundstage.

But, considering the other tube-vs-SS qualities, how did they compare and why did you lean towards the 340i? Which speakers did you compare them on? The tubes were warmer? Soundstage depth any deeper with tubes?

Thanks for any info. I'm a fan of Simaudio's products and sound, but would like your take on their comparison to the Raven and Quicksilver, and am aware that speaker match is a major factor too.

This thread has had more "posts removed" than actual posts. How sad...........

I am guessing it all has one common denominator. 

ozz it's the same whack job, ON and OFF his meds.. like a friggin yo yo..

How many different whacko but we know it's two or three guys doing the 15 or so different A holes.

One is a front runner though, Now he/it/her/them has a Y'ALL in the mix.. TOTAL NUT...

The inflection is there no matter how hard they try to hide it..

I think they escape up to the nurses station and log in for a run every now and them.. Then get 5 pointed and a good blast of THORAZINE. 

Do the Thorazine shuffle for a couple days, and sneak back up to the nurses station.  Thorazine JUNKIE.. LOL.

I've worked with several in my life, they have their HIGHS and their lows.

BOOZE forget it.. total A HOLES..

Puff Puff Pass dude.. I'm pickin' up good vibrations, I'm pickin' up excitations...

Regards

b_limo,

Did you get rid of your Carrera’s for the Salks?

Wow you all sound real old.

You are old

arafit
"A friend of mine recently switched from Blackhawk MK3 to Qualiton A50i. According to him, there is no comparison. The Qualiton is at an entirely different level".

Your post intrigued me.  You are right there is no comparison.  Class A vs A/B....more power  and over double the cost.  So, I would expect it to be better.  It probably is a great integrated tube amp under $10k.  What is the OPS budget to drive his Sonus Fabers?

IMO, there is no game changing integrated tube amp under $3.9k.    Raven is a great product and I owned a Raven Reflection.   Can any sub $4k tube amp drive the SF's?  I think they can.  I also had my Raven Reflection drive SF Amati Tradition Homage speakers with ease.  But then again, The Reflection provides much more power.  

I guess I am a bit more adventurous with audio.  If I buy a component and I feel it does not work well with my system, I sell it and move on.  Even if there is a restocking fee, Raven gives you a 45 day trial.  That in itself is worth the trial.  You would only lose shipping costs.  

Good Luck b-limo

@willgolf -- I want to (re) emphasize that the Raven Blackhawk is an excellent tube amp in the sub $5k category. I also readily admit that in my case, it’s my speakers that are not a good match. It is not my intent to knock on the product. I do, in fact, plan to replace the amp with something which is going to be a better match for my speakers. I was almost sold on trying an SS amp like Naim Supernait 3 or Hegel H390, but my friend’s experience with Qualiton is making me wonder if I should try a more powerful class A tube amp before giving up on the idea. I’m going to take my time to find the right one.

My previous posts were a reaction to the misperceptions that have been perpetuated on this site for far too long -- (a) Blackhawk is better than amps costing twice, even thrice, as much, and (b) Blackhawk’s 20 watts are better than 100 SS watts. In my experience, this is simply not true.

Listen you can always find an amp which may be better than other amps that cost 2 to 3 times much. But this is more a reflection on the amp which is bettered than the amp which is up for discussion. If you buy wisely, the more expensive amp will always outperform the less expensive amp which should come as no surprise. Further, I object to the notion that all S.S. and tube amps share the same intrinsic sound. The beauty of tube designs is the overall comparative simplicity, but they also suffer problems one of which a current versus voltage issue. I also think that transformers are limiting devices which do their job effectively but not without a sonic cost. 

Inefficient speakers are the issue.

wasted time and money not doing research.

wasted time making comparisons of x and y when they are not even in the same category or channel.

last 2 pages of this thread have been a waste of time and lots and lots of hot air from keyboard engineers.

Sour grapes, and my gear is better.

Children, they said this site is a clearing house of information LOL. It’s a clearing house for exhaust fumes, egoistic rants and sociopaths.

jerryg123,

What’s up with you constantly calling everyone old? Not just on this thread but on another as well. 11 whole posts and 3 of them are mocking people for being older.
You think being older is something to be ashamed of?
With age, there predominantly comes maturity. Perhaps it’s something you should strive for as you get older.

@carpathian have no idea what you are talking about old man. 
So is having 2200 posts on this site a status symbol. You must think very highly of yourself. 
Hardly think maturity comes with age old boy reading the posts in this forum. I only get a sense of arrogance and narcissism.

Go look in the mirror old boy.

I rest my case.

Seems that one of my posts yesterday (now removed) was a bit too strongly worded for some people, or they didn't realize some of the interactions in the thread.

I was defending another member that was being attacked for providing reasonable input, and did not appear to be offensive (maybe I missed something). Sad part is that I was dragged through the mud by people that didn't connect the dots first to understand things.

I have always found very helpful information on this site, and appreciate that people are willing to take the time to share their experiences, knowledge, etc. The members that do this are helping far more people than they know; I wonder how many people read/research/learn here versus post.

Sad that people from other countries come to this site for info and have to see the carnage in some of these threads. Makes no sense that some people are unable to disagree without being rude... but I guess it's not that simple when you consider things like mental health issues, personality disorders, etc. Or maybe someone is just having a bad day? But the repeat offenders... they are not in a good light, just low EQ and unaware of themselves in social situations. Some people actually don't know when they cross the line; completely unaware of it. The ones doing it on purpose are just plain sad.

She’s just funnin’ with everyone. Soon she’ll get bored and go back to her room and play with her coveted Barbie doll collection!!

Probably not meant to offend anyone other than the person they are responding to, but the irony is incredible. Long-time members were just pondering a week or two about why there aren't more women participating on this site, yet go on like this, or the thread the other day about whisky and waking up with women in Mexico. Then we'll start over next weekend wondering why this or that person doesn't feel comfortable here.

Haven’t really followed the thread for a few days... looks like it took a turn,


Anyways, still enjoying the Raven. 
I do wish it had more power but thats available, just costs more money.  The sound quality is fantastic and Im having a ball with rolling tubes and learning what sounds like what. I bought this amp used and it came with a bunch of tubes.  All of them are decent if not good.  
Anyways, I am really satisfied with the sound quality.  It really is just awesome.  
@Millercarbon, if the sub out isn’t variable, there is no way to adjust it seperate from the Ravens volume control unless another preamp is used before the raven...

are you trying to tell me that the integrated raven amp needs an additional pre amp in order to be able to adjust the volume of the speakers and sub together?

not having a variable outlut for a subwoofer is pointless and I’ve never come across or heard of such a thing.  Are you telling me that I have to adjust the volume of the sub sverytime time I adjust the volume on the Raven?  Thats stupid.  You still don’t get it...

b_limo,

Thanks for sharing your experience!
Good info for many, as I am considering the move to a tube integrated myself. I hope the sub-out vs. volume control has a reasonable solution.

Does the amp give off much heat?

@b_limo
So you came back over to the dark side, good for you :) A friend in common shared the news about your incoming Raven. I was about to send you a note to say this, just saw your reply and was about to share thoughts like 1) it will sound very nice, and 2) and won’t go super loud or dynamic. Seems you’ve discovered this already. Your 4-6ohm 88db Salks will definitely benefit from more power IF you still like to listen to music loud. If not, may require getting use to listening at lower levels.
Tip: make sure you are in love with the Raven amp before parting with your Salks for other more efficient speakers. Dave at Raven needs to get with the program and build some affordable KT88 60-80w monos for speakers like yours. Enjoy the tube listening again!

That does sound strange if the sub output level is truly fixed and not variable.  Too bad if so in that the built in high pass filter to the mains for use with a sub sounds like a nice feature to use with a sub. 

My Raven Reflection did not give off much heat.

One would expect more heat in general when the amp is working harder or playing louder and/or full range  into a tougher load.

@b_limo 
Did you talk to Raven about changing your power tubes?  I went from KT 88's to KT 150's on my Reflection to increase the power.

Thats not enough power for those speakers if you ever like high volumes IMO. May very well sound great at 75-80db. 

Yes likely not getting the most out of the speakers but if you like the amp enough that can certainly help make up for that to a certain extent.

Yeah I'll bet the U.S. is the only country with forums that suffer these types of problems. 

Do not change to KT150s without doing a bunch of research on this tube type. I thought, for my garage system , that the extra power of the KT120s was worth the slight loss of humanity. I have never used KT150s, but have heard a number of users as well as manufacturers that dont like this tube.

The Blackhawk uses 6L6GC power tubes , be interesting what answer you get from Raven about using KT88s or 150s in their place since they are not direct replacements for a 6L6 tube.

You all are so wrong....


LoL, just kidding!  So Im jamming out to some borrowed cheapo pair of Klipsh’s right now... 97db-100db sensitivity...  

The Salks are listed for sale now and are awesome speakers, Im just onto a different route now.  High efficiency speakers #1, analogue source coming up..

Pair that Raven up with Moab, you will not believe. Not even. Seriously. Your amp is way better than mine, and if you heard mine you would freak. When I say way better, talking with Dave Thompson it turns out he had my same amp. He said nice little amp, nothing wrong with it, sounds real good. But it sounds flat and dull next to a Raven. So there you go. 

Reading through this thread it seems that speaker sensitivity was mentioned and another member had some badly paired speaker’s for the Raven.

Just saying.

Earl.

@b_limo so what was the final assessment of the 20 watt Raven with the Salks? What was lacking? It went from sounds good and loud enough to Salks for sale pretty quickly. Not a great match on paper so not shocked but would like to know your thoughts.

Ditto, mapman.

@b_limo
I’m pleased that you found your tube amp.
Regarding subwoofer, what brand is it?

Perhaps the most difficult task when seeking useful information on a forum such as this, to use the cliche, is trying to"separate the wheat from the chaff." Rather than risk being flagged. I’ll leave it at that.  Except to say that I think @oldhvymec has it figured out.  :)

IMO @b_limo is making an excellent decision. Raven will be a good match with high sensitivity speakers. This was the exact advice given by many a few days ago -- i.e. Salks not being a good match with Raven. They might sound good enough, but too much potential left on the table.

FWIW, I heard the Raven Audio Celest' speakers being driven by an Osprey at James' house, and it was a fabulous match. If I were to go down that path, I would definitely keep the Celest' in my top 3 choices.

Well unfortunately  I guess anyone who correctly answered the OP would be disappointed with the combo gets to take a victory lap now.

Do not change to KT150s without doing a bunch of research on this tube type. I thought, for my garage system , that the extra power of the KT120s was worth the slight loss of humanity. I have never used KT150s, but have heard a number of users as well as manufacturers that dont like this tube.

To sound their best, the KT150 tube needs to be utilized in an amplifier and circuit designed with higher plate voltage and hefty transformers. 

Sounds completely different in my current amps specifically designed and built to run KT150s properly. Gotta hear the difference to understand and appreciate it.  

They might sound good enough, but too much potential left on the table. 

This summed it up. 
It sounded really good and better than the belles aria.  It would push right up to the aria in output / dynamics.  Maybe 90%
I was really curious what 95+db speakers were like so I borrowed a pair of whatever klipsch’s... RF3’s?  He picked them up for $200... they mopped the floor with the salks and they are not even close to the same level as the Salks, so it was the sensitivity / synergy that was doing it for me.

I have some Double Impacts lined up!  Hopefully tomorrow.

Im currently using a single Velodyne HGS10.  May add a pair of DD10’s this week as well.

had a good time rolling tubes today.  Learned that I have some pretty nice tubes.  Some amperex from holland and japan.  Some raytheon black plates.  Another really awesome pair I forget right now.

anyways, the salks sounded good but like was mentioned, there was too much left on the table.  
I get Klipsch now with tubes.  I bet a nice pair of klipsch’s, a nice tube amp and a vinyl setup is pretty cool

95+dB is really the place to be. But I get flack for even saying 92. That to me is rock bottom. As I suspect you are now really beginning to understand why. Your Raven is an absolutely fantastic amp, but one rendered out of bounds and unsuitable simply by the shortsighted decision to buy inefficient speakers.

That one move dooms and limits you forevermore to a hundred watts, minimum. Even then it is almost impossible to get the kind of effortless speed and dynamics you are going to be hearing, in spades, with Double Impacts.

But think of it, that Raven/Tekton combination is only about $6k! Which if instead your speakers were a typical 89dB could easily be 3X the money and still not get there! Not in SPL, not in quality. The typical 89dB speaker requires nearly ten times the power to do what your 98dB DI will do. People really should do the math. 20 watts and 98dB speakers, or 200 watts and 88dB. Which do you suppose you can buy higher quality with $3k? 200 watts? Or 20?

Then with the money you save not having to buy hundreds of watts you buy Pods, Podiums, turntable- now you are in heaven!

Methinks something is wrong with your subwoofer. It works flawlessly in this review...
https://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_4_4/velodynehgs10.html

Unless I am misunderstanding, the sub out on the amp is a high pass xover just to remove the low frequencies from the main speaker. You would still control the volume of the sub with the control on the sub. You actually wouldn’t want that output to be variable.