Raven Blackhawk LE... am I going to be disappointed?

@Millercarbon... you getting a $13k dollar Raven?  Holy smokes dude...  

So 85db’s at 1 meter is fine, 75 dbs at 2 1/2 meters...

I ususlly dont listen at ear bleeding levels.  
We’ll see!  I was wondering though already about ghe soft clipping properties that Douglas mentioned.  I wonder how many people think their low powered tube amps are cutting it but they are just clipping it constantly and not knowing it because of the soft clipping properties.

Tis why I started this thread!

Something else... I am partially thinking that when you connect a sub to the sub out it crosses the mains over ag 80hz, reducing the load, no?  I may have misunderstood though.

@douglas_schroeder , how to dig myself out then?  If i like the sound of the Raven with the Salks but the don’t play loud enough, stick with the Raven and go high efficiency?  

@fuzztone, lol, thanks for the candid response.  I know it wasn’t mean, just your truthful opinion (which might be factual!) and it made me chuckle, so thanks for that

Cool.  Thats kind of what I was thinking.  I’ve only ever had one tube amp, a prima luna prologue 3 or 5... cant remember.  I like it but Im thinking that the Raven will be a step up.  
I may roll tubes and if I like the Raven but it doesn’t get loud enough, I’ll switch speakers to something higher efficiency. Choices seem limited though to ZU, Spatial and Tekton...

Man, so confused!  My heart says go for the Raven, my head says maybe not.  The Raven is so sexy but I am into dynamics and loud...

I want tubes but I want power too. I need more $, lol.

I don’t know, we’ll see.  If I don’t like the Raven / Salks combo I suppose I could figure out then, if Im keeping the Raven or Salks.  
Im starting to see the appeal in high efficiency speakers...

How long does it take to get a tube amp warm?  Its been 30 mins now, shes radiating some heat, and it sounds really damn good.  
I switched to 8 ohm tap... whats the difference between the two?  My speakers are nominal 6 and dip probably too 2 or 3 I assume.  
I started with the 4 ohm tap.  Can I use either?  Is it just going to be a difference in sound quality or does it put a bigger strain on the amp?

I am definitely seeing the appeal in a good tube amp though, whoa.  The openess, bloom and freq response is amazing.  I think its going to have enough power too which is really really surprising...

So I have the Raven hooked up.  It was a preowned hnit and Im having issues with the sub out; it wont adjust the volume on the sub.  It passes the sub signal through the amp with the Raven off... strange.

Anyhow, its not warmed up yet and it actually sounds pretty dang good.  Plays stronger / louder than I expected.  It came with extra tubes too so I may roll some tubes later.  Fun stuff!

Raven will add the sub crossover to older units and since this one has sub out issues anyways...

I may just try returning it and swapping out for something else.  I got it at TMR and they have been really great so far so Im sure they’ll take care of me.  I want to keep my business with them on this so I’d try possibly trading for a different integrated.  The MF NuVista M3 looks interesting as does that Cayin tube integrated.  Problem is, coming off the Belles, its got to sound amazing number 1, then loud number 2.  This Raven is the firdt amp I put up against the Belles that can hold its own in terms of sound quality

I’ll update more here later today when I’ve listened some more

So Im able to get an average of 90dbs with 95db peaks spl at my listening seat...

I am missing a bit of dynamics / slam that I had with Belles but the Raven is slightly more open and clear.  

We’ll see we’ll see

Yeah, so these 20 watts are plenty.   So weird.  Who would have thought.  And yes, this amp is pretty cool.  Dont think its going anywhere except to Raven for some service, updates, upgrades.  Ravens customer service is awesome, and their prices are reasonable too!  
Anyways, more to come later

lol, Im not an MC hater by any means.  May put off some people but not me.

So, Im a tinker’er through and through.  Pulled the schiit gungir dac out (ouch), running the bluesound node 2i dac now simply because with the bluesound, I can crossover my speakers wherever I want, dial in my sub to my speakers and just use my volume control on my bluesound to circumnavigate my sub volume control issue on the raven. 
Holy smokes, I'm on my way. Once I get this Blackhawk dialed in and the gungir back in the mix, its on!  
Im thinking of adding 2 DD10 velodynes and bam, donzo.

With the setup right now its stupid dynamic and loud.  Sitting between 85-95 db’s (how accurate is my phone?  Tested on 2 diff apps).  Plenty loud for anyone, I promise.  And this is playing bass heavy music.

the highs, soundstage and clarity on the Raven are pretty wicked.  No regrets at all!

Older Blackhawks dont have the eq feature but I can get it installed on mine and will do so.

I am just blown away by this amp.  I just left and dropped off the Belles at Fed Ex; big gime sellers remorse.  Come home and fire up the Raven and Man, watts are bs, Im telling you.  These are some really really healthy 20 watts.  With the speakers running full range snd 1 velodyne Hgs 10 in the center and its rocking out.  It plays right up to a satisfying level for me (sorry neighbors, but I like it loud) and the sound quality is through the roof.  Im so happy with this amp.  Wow!

It came with a bunch of different pre amp tubes... I have some raytheon black plates, amperex, brimar, rca, rogers and pro comm.

Anyways, I called Raven, got awesome help and am going to stick with this beauty for sure.

Haven’t really followed the thread for a few days... looks like it took a turn,


Anyways, still enjoying the Raven. 
I do wish it had more power but thats available, just costs more money.  The sound quality is fantastic and Im having a ball with rolling tubes and learning what sounds like what. I bought this amp used and it came with a bunch of tubes.  All of them are decent if not good.  
Anyways, I am really satisfied with the sound quality.  It really is just awesome.  
@Millercarbon, if the sub out isn’t variable, there is no way to adjust it seperate from the Ravens volume control unless another preamp is used before the raven...

are you trying to tell me that the integrated raven amp needs an additional pre amp in order to be able to adjust the volume of the speakers and sub together?

not having a variable outlut for a subwoofer is pointless and I’ve never come across or heard of such a thing.  Are you telling me that I have to adjust the volume of the sub sverytime time I adjust the volume on the Raven?  Thats stupid.  You still don’t get it...

You all are so wrong....


LoL, just kidding!  So Im jamming out to some borrowed cheapo pair of Klipsh’s right now... 97db-100db sensitivity...  

The Salks are listed for sale now and are awesome speakers, Im just onto a different route now.  High efficiency speakers #1, analogue source coming up..

They might sound good enough, but too much potential left on the table. 

This summed it up. 
It sounded really good and better than the belles aria.  It would push right up to the aria in output / dynamics.  Maybe 90%
I was really curious what 95+db speakers were like so I borrowed a pair of whatever klipsch’s... RF3’s?  He picked them up for $200... they mopped the floor with the salks and they are not even close to the same level as the Salks, so it was the sensitivity / synergy that was doing it for me.

I have some Double Impacts lined up!  Hopefully tomorrow.

Im currently using a single Velodyne HGS10.  May add a pair of DD10’s this week as well.

had a good time rolling tubes today.  Learned that I have some pretty nice tubes.  Some amperex from holland and japan.  Some raytheon black plates.  Another really awesome pair I forget right now.

anyways, the salks sounded good but like was mentioned, there was too much left on the table.  
I get Klipsch now with tubes.  I bet a nice pair of klipsch’s, a nice tube amp and a vinyl setup is pretty cool

No tektons, raven went back.  Not sure why a sub out would be fixed and not variable...

anyhow, if it the sub out was variable and the raven had the crossover, i would have kept it.

Im keeping the salks thankfully.  I think I would have been disappointed with the finish and drivers on the tektons.  I more than likely would have liked the sound but...

anyhow, I have a kinki studio exm1 (latest iteration) coming on sunday.

Got the Kinki EX-M1 in my system yesterday.  Friggin fed ex smashed the crap out of it.  Filed a claim, we’ll see what happens.  Unit is working properly, I believe. Ran hot today but its hot here and Im pushing my speakers pretty hard for 4 hours now...

both knobs on the front are loose / smashed inwards.  I can’t believe how fed dx treats our equipment.  Ludicrous.  
Sounds pretty special though.  The imaging, separation within the soundstage, image depth and width, black background, zero distortion, detail, pretty amazing.  The bass is stupid, the mids and voices just float eerily in space, and the highs are there but not offensive.

The Raven on TMR is the one I had. I bought it from them.  Great sounding amp but with the sub out issue and cosmetic issues, I didn’t want that to be my most expensive purchase ever, so I opted to buy a pristine Kinki and then have Fed Ex drag it behind the truck for 1500 miles

Lol, yeah no doubt.  Pass labs anyone?  Perhaps luxman or accuphase?

the kinki was $2000...

i hear mbl is good as well 😂

Heres a link to the tweeters, or similar to what tekton uses.

i should add that he does offer a be upgrade but when cost of tweeter goes from$65 to $300, and you use 7 per speaker, things get pricey.

I think a moab with Seas excels all the way through would be awesome.  Also, it needs to look better.  Kind of ikea level as opposed to fine furniture.  

@hilde45, the tweeters used in many of tektons speakers are a soft dome sb acoustics tweeter, probably $50.  The other drivers are probably in the $30-$100 range.  Fritz and Salk use drivers that are more in the $120-$350 price range.

with all that in mind though, enclosures and crossovers as well as design play huge roles.  I’ve had too many speakers to count and totem arros were real eye openers and used maybe $100 worth of drivers in total.  However, I’ve never heard a seas excel driver that didn’t sound smooth as butter.  With high end drivers, at worst you’ll get a speaker that sounds decent.

Lol @twoleftears , those look pretty saweet!  How much them bad boys?

https://audiohungary.com/product/a50i/11

To clarify, I do believe the Kinki. Is functioning normal.  The issues are really the whole front circuit board that attaches the 2 knobs and front display are all very loose.  1/4 - 1/2 of play on the knobs up and down and in and out.  Back bottom left corner is nicked which is nuts because its 1/4 thick...

anyhow, this was a used unit in pristine shape.  Seller is awesome and now someone I consider to be my friend.  Old timer in the game and he knows just about everyone.  Fritz and he are good friends and I consider Fritz a good friend as well.

Not to always plug Fritz’s speakers, but they are awesome. Buy a pair if you are looking and on the fence.  Salk is great as well but more expensive and longer wait times.  Frit’z veneer work is on par if not better than Salk.  
Sorry to digress but yes, the Kinki is just awesome.  I really liked my Belles Aria and Raven as well but the Kinki is more in line with the upgrade I was looking for. The things internals are just gorgeous.  I have never personally owned an amp with a better layout internally.  Very simple, straightforward, no bs layout with really nice stuff in there.  Reminds me of the Arias internals only multiplied by 2.

no complaints with the kinki.  Hopefully I can recoup some money from fed ex, fix the kinki myself and keep it.  

Anyone considering a kinki...if the sound profile fits your desires, grab one.  The build quality is awesome, its jewelry to look at (only surpassed by rowland in my opinion, not talking triangle art or whatever).