@b_limo - it’s a decent product but overly hyped. And no, 20 watts is not the equivalent of 100 watts, not by a long stretch. Personally, and as someone who owns a Raven Blackhawk MK3, I don’t think it’s a good match for your speakers. It might get loud but you will miss the dynamics and bass.
Also, the sub out feature is mostly a gimmick. I use a REL with the amp but vastly prefer the speakon high level connection. |
@chicagoblue1977 -- I understand that some of my comments might seem unfair to the Blackhawk. Admittedly, the speakers that I have tried the amp with (SF Olympica 2, Harbeth P3ESR, Harbeth 30.1, Harbeth SHL5+) are all considered somewhat hard to drive. But let me explain why I feel the need to voice my concerns and call out the (over) hype associated with the Avian series.
If you have been following the various discussions and posts on this site, you would have noticed that the Blackhawk was/is touted as a giant killer that simply stomps over all other tube amps at twice or even thrice the price. Basically, there is no competition that can touch this amp. Period. Second, the claim that 20 watts is the equivalent of 100 SS watts.
In fact, it's not just the posters on this site. I was told the same by Raven Audio that this amp would have no problem driving SF Olympica 2s (now sold). The underlying message was not to worry about the wattage specs. It was only after a few owners, including myself, started to contradict the hype, that the stipulation of pairing high sensitivity speakers was added as a way to refute the objections. But believe me, many were, and are, led to believe (20 watts = 100 SS watts) that this amp would have no problem driving tough loads. It is categorically NOT true! How do I know? I have compared this amp with Luxman 590 AXII (30 watts class A, 90 watts A/B) and Audio Research GSi75. Yes, I know it's an unfair comparison due to completely different price brackets. But that is the point! The Blackhawk performs admirably within its price bracket -- but giant killer it's not. The 30 watts produced by the Luxman are vastly more potent and higher quality - as it should be given the price difference.
Further, the amp is comparable to other offerings from Rogue Audio or Quicksilver, both in terms of build and sound quality. Yet, I have seen many posts where it was implied that this amp is in a different league altogether. Having said that, I agree that this is a decent product for the price, and pairs well with (a) high sensitivity speakers, (b) in small-to-medium-sized rooms, and (c) when played at low to moderate volumes. But this is not how it was presented up until very recently. |
@b_limo -- I'm happy that you are enjoying the amp. This just goes to show the incredible variety in our tastes in music, listening preferences, room acoustics, expectations, synergy, etc. In the end, there is no right or wrong in this hobby. My advice was based on my own experiences and having compared the Raven to other tube and SS amps. I'm happy to be proven wrong as long as you're thrilled with what you are hearing. In the end, that's all that matters.
Having said that, a new toy can sometimes usher you into the so-called honeymoon phase. Of course, I could be wrong and you might still be in love with the amp after a few months. But just looking the various iterations/combos on your systems page (very impressive by the way), I'm willing to bet that you will be moving up the tube amp chain in a few months :)
Good luck and enjoy the music!
P.S: If you're not already using a better power cord, I recommend replacing the stock PC. I tried the Audio Envy Mega 3 power cord and it definitely improved the performance of my Blackhawk by a few notches.
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A friend of mine recently switched from Blackhawk MK3 to Qualiton A50i. According to him, there is no comparison. The Qualiton is at an entirely different level. He claims that it’s one of the few tube amps under 10 grand that is driving his speakers (which are a rather difficult load) with aplomb. He actually, as in ’yes really, really’, owned the Blackhawk for about a year, so his opinion carries a lot of weight.
I had been contemplating replacing my Blackhawk with an SS amp like Naim Supernait 3 or Pass Labs INT-25 to drive my Harbeth M30.1s. But this guy is now making me reconsider tubes again. I’ve also heard that ARC is coming out with a new integrated soon. I will probably start a new thread on this topic to collect thoughts and opinions. |
I don't agree with millercarbon on everything, but it's sad to see him getting attacked like this. The man has strong views on certain things, and that's alright as long as it comes from a good place. Some of the posts seem unwarranted. FWIW, I've never seen him get 'uncivil' with anyone yet. |
@chicagoblue1977 -- I removed my last post because that was not the tone I was aiming for. I apologize for that.
I agree with almost all of your previous post except for the 'advice' bit. The SF Olympica 2 were very specifically mentioned prior to the purchase. I was told that 'many of our customer are using these speakers and are very happy. You should not have any problem driving the speakers with the Blackhawk...". I'm sure your experience with Raven is different than mine, but it's not nice to imply that someone is lying unless you were there when the conversation took place.
And, yes, I agree that I should have done my homework instead of relying on the forums and, more specifically, the amp manufacturer's advice. |
@willgolf -- I want to (re) emphasize that the Raven Blackhawk is an excellent tube amp in the sub $5k category. I also readily admit that in my case, it’s my speakers that are not a good match. It is not my intent to knock on the product. I do, in fact, plan to replace the amp with something which is going to be a better match for my speakers. I was almost sold on trying an SS amp like Naim Supernait 3 or Hegel H390, but my friend’s experience with Qualiton is making me wonder if I should try a more powerful class A tube amp before giving up on the idea. I’m going to take my time to find the right one.
My previous posts were a reaction to the misperceptions that have been perpetuated on this site for far too long -- (a) Blackhawk is better than amps costing twice, even thrice, as much, and (b) Blackhawk’s 20 watts are better than 100 SS watts. In my experience, this is simply not true.
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IMO @b_limo is making an excellent decision. Raven will be a good match with high sensitivity speakers. This was the exact advice given by many a few days ago -- i.e. Salks not being a good match with Raven. They might sound good enough, but too much potential left on the table.
FWIW, I heard the Raven Audio Celest' speakers being driven by an Osprey at James' house, and it was a fabulous match. If I were to go down that path, I would definitely keep the Celest' in my top 3 choices. |
@hilde45 +1 And then there are my ears -- which have found that a number of lower db speakers work with a number of modest watt amps. Great post! In the end, we buy what makes sense to us in that given moment, the gear we are able to audition, and our listening preferences. For me, it is a learning process which I suspect will never end -- i.e. I will never be a ’know it all’ believing in ’absolute’ truths like so many on this website. And, frankly, I hope I never become like that. The point of this hobby is to experiment, learn from your mistakes, admit your mistakes, and most importantly make an emotional connection with the music regardless of the cost, medium, or topology. There never has been, and never will be, one type of speaker or any other equipment that will satisfy everyone. Some of the posts remind me of the story of the oracle at Delphi and Socrates. I quote ... "In each case, Socrates affirmed that he would rather be as he is, knowing that he knows nothing, than to be inflated by a false sense of his own great wisdom. Thus, he concludes, he truly is wiser than other men because he does not think he knows what he does not know." |
@b_limo did you get your Tektons yet? |
I’m glad you decided to keep the Salks after all. I wanted to say this earlier, but didn’t want to offend anyone ... the Salks are world class speakers, both in terms of sound quality and build/aesthetics. The other brand you were considering, not so much. Apologies if someone is offended.
In the end, you should buy the speakers that appeal to you, and not sacrifice great speakers at the altar of flea watt tube amps.
Also, I mentioned earlier that the sub out feature on Raven amps is more of a gimmick. I tried it with REL T9i and T/Zero. Not only did the amp not sound any better/powerful when using the dedicated sub out, using REL's high level connection was a clear winner every time. Raven makes very good amps that compete quite well in its respective price category, but the sub out feature should not be the reason to buy them. |
@b_limo -- I placed an order for the Qualiton A50i yesterday. The retail price is $8000/black and $8500/silver. Most dealers will discount it by 10%, but from what I understand the margins are fairly thin to begin with so you will have to negotiate for something better. If you're interested, take a look at Qualiton X200 ... https://audiohungary.com/product/x200/19This one is probably in the sweet spot in terms of power, versatility, and price. I have no doubt it will drive even relatively low efficiency speakers nicely. |
