2. cables
  3. 183816-156209

Premium Power Cable Survey: The Results Are IN

Survey says ....

Thanks to the 179 who took the time to complete the One Minute (okay, TWO minute) Survey. If one thing was clear to me after designing the survey and collecting results is that this is one elite group, with a collection some of the most NOTE-worthy music systems on the planet.

It was no surprise that not everyone shares the same opinion on this subject. There are those who feel premium power cables were on the order of magnitude of migrating prerecorded music from the cylinder to the disc. And, others who feel that premium power cords are the industry equilivent of Pinto exploding gas tanks.

Rather than a plea for decorum, which has been done before (not always with the best outcomes), I’d like to request sometihing a little different. A request that we minimize our energy and emotion related to the specific subject matter at hand, make it somewhat generic, and encorporate "newer thinking" where we maximize the benefit of our time shared together on these forums. Particularly on subjects where we disagree. It’s been said: "It’s better to invite someone tell you what’s right about their viewpoint than to tell them what’s wrong with it."

I’d like to begin with the premise that those who contribute here feel they have something to say. Sure there are "opinions" and "rebuttals" that may be entertaining, but we have the most to gain when contributions add something of value to others in the group. The "best of the best" are actionable items where the reader not only has something to learn, but is compelled to take some action to improve the performance of their systems.

As mentioned earlier, this is an elite group of audio enthusiasts. Some of the best ears in high performance audio, with the brain matter to go along with them. I’d like to suggest that those claim who "hear" sonic differences actually DO hear them. And, those who don’t hear something magical happening, actually NO NOT hear it. The correct response in my view is not to immediately challenge the person and their perspective, but rather ask the question: "What are they hearing that I’m not hearing, and why am I not hearing it?" Or, the inverse. Assuming BOTH questions are valid, then take the conversation to another level. "Tell me about your system. Your location. Your room." The ideal scenario would be to place yourself IN the environment in question to listen for yourself. You may find that you heard nothing of interest. Or, you may find the person did, in fact, hear something pretty amazing. In most cases, the logistics will prevent this from happening. So, we can only share our viewpoints, among gentlemen that we share indulgences with and hopefully those receiving our communications are willing to allow us to tell them what we feel is right about our experiences.

That being said, there are those on the survey with a very high degree of certainty that their observations were correct. Some on the positive side. And, some on the negative side. Hopefully, we can upgrade the conversation from "disbelief and delusion" to "curiosity and willingness to experiment." I hope we learn more about ourselves from the survey and find even more ways to connect in a positive way.

Thanks for all who contributed.

John

A little "housekeeping issue". The "dashboard" link below will take you to the results of the survey. The couldn’t figure out how to edit the font size, so some of the text is crammed together. I hope there is enough information there to make it discernable.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/stories/SM-tcfn8dsvGcfAoSyut8ngrw_3D_3D/

128x128waytoomuchstuff
72 responses Add your response
fbgbill's avatar
fbgbill
302 posts
 

Interesting survey. I did not take it since I built my own cables a couple of years back. I was able to make custom lengths to my power controller. I used quality components from Furutech. It was a fun project. 

blisshifi's avatar
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blisshifi
1,183 posts
 

I don’t believe this survey was ever intended to prove whether power cables change or improve the quality of sound, but to share the opinions and trends of the community. Part of any community is a sense of belonging based on shared value, and opinion goes a long way in feeling that value. So let’s not rip each other apart over something it was not intended to be and allow for a this community to thrive in a positive way. 

blackbag20
455 posts
 

A lot of work there ... thank you @waytoomuchstuff 

clearthinker's avatar
clearthinker
1,582 posts
 

@cleeds    My statement was too broad.  I should have said that the survey has no value as a determinant of whether changing power cords can make a difference to sound.  It does have value as an exposition of peoples' opinions.

@brianh61   I agree with you.  But the purpose of a blind test is to determine whether one individual can hear differences with his hearing.

@waytoomuchstuff   "I’d like to suggest that those claim who "hear" sonic differences actually DO hear them."     I note your careful use of inverted commas for "hear".  It may then be that you agree with the rest of my statement below.  I don't claim such people do not perceive a difference.  It is just that their perception is equal to the sound emanating from the speakers PLUS the modification applied by the conscious and sub-conscious brain.  So it is not possible to determine if changing power cords can really make a difference to the sound - ie that emanating from the speakers.

hilde45's avatar
hilde45
4,974 posts
 

An interesting survey, which presents interesting facts about the perceptions and interpretations of the group. Which of those perceptions/interpretations map onto reproducible sonic realities is impossible to determine, but as Mulder liked to say, "The truth is out there."

brianh61
82 posts
 

@clearthinker If we all took the same Hearing Test, do you think we would all have the same exact results? I don't because everyone's hearing is not the same.

lak's avatar
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lak
4,627 posts
 

@waytoomuchstuff, Thanks for the time and effort that went into this task, always fun to read what others have and think.

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cleeds
5,948 posts
 
clearthinker

The survey was of OPINIONS.  Not hearing.  It has no value ...

This is a hobbyist's group that is full of opinions. If opinions have no value to you, what are you doing here?

bpoletti
1,552 posts
 

In a blind A/B/X test, conducted by Keith Herron, it was determined and RESULTS REPEATED that a 3 MILLIBEL difference in tonal response was consistently detectible. With that in mind, it’s quite conceivable that minor power supply differences, including input cables, can make a difference in tone qualities and performances.

I was involved in the test and the difference was not as subtle as one might suggest.  

 

tony1954's avatar
tony1954
1,037 posts
 

@waytoomuchstuff 

Thanks for doing the survey.

Always interesting to see how other people approach sound quality and equipment.

 

 

 

tony1954's avatar
tony1954
1,037 posts
 

@mrskeptic 

"If it's based on listening when the person knew the brand and cost of the cable, (in other words, not objective) your survey is pointless. But if that's how you want to spend your time, so be it."

You have named yourself well. Almost as if you knew your response before you started.

Not sure why you want to trash someone that did something to try to help people on this site.

Just because the questionnaire isn't perfect is no reason to be so negative, "Mr. Skeptic".

 

clearthinker's avatar
clearthinker
1,582 posts
 

+1 @mrskeptic 

The survey was of OPINIONS.  Not hearing.  It has no value.  Only double-blind tests have value.  Hearing is not purely a mechanical process.  Unfortunately there is your brain between the sound and what you hear.

mitch2
3,972 posts
 

Thank you for coming up with the survey.  To the results, I was a little surprised at how many are multiple generations in, like upgrading the upgrade, and at how few have DIY’ed.

mrskeptic
262 posts
 

If it's based on listening when the person knew the brand and cost of the cable, (in other words, not objective) your survey is pointless. But if that's how you want to spend your time, so be it.

blisshifi's avatar
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blisshifi
1,183 posts
 

@waytoomuchstuff I’ll be happy to take it on. I’m preparing a lot for AXPONA but perhaps I can get an initial thread out by tomorrow night with some thoughts on future surveys and see what people might be most curious about.

For me, beyond types of cables and gear, I will be interested to know more about peoples’ listening behaviors, consideration and purchase behaviors, and what their “real life” audiophile communities look like. 

Post removed 
waytoomuchstuff's avatar
waytoomuchstuff OP
1,114 posts
 

@acman3 @blisshifi You're welcome.  Glad you found it to be of value to you.

@audphile1 I think surveys can be of value to the group. Maybe a survey to determine top areas of interest.  Then, a pre-survey to determine most relevant questions.  1 survey was enough for me.  Volunteers?

audioman58's avatar
audioman58
4,138 posts
 

The ? How much is enough to spend ? Digital very important 

then everything else $1k say a AQ Thunder that’s $4k just for 4 power cords 

then the $$ Ethernet cables, usb cables  which can be reasonably $4k for 3 cables

For linear  power supplies my max is under $300for  each power cord ,

interconnects, and Loudspeaker cables how much are you will to spend 

I have seen $50k just for these cables ,Which I could never afford .

the list and ? Questions go on .

 

audphile1's avatar
audphile1
4,926 posts
 

@waytoomuchstuff do one for ethernet cables next. That should be even more interesting. 

blisshifi's avatar
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blisshifi
1,183 posts
 

Thank you again for designing this survey. The results are helpful to me in better understanding the values of the community, of which many I share!

waytoomuchstuff's avatar
waytoomuchstuff OP
1,114 posts
 

Here’s the complete survey for those who didn’t have the opportunity to complete it (or, can’t read the oversized, crowded text in the recap)

1. Do you have first hand personal experience LISTENING TO premium power cables?

Yes

No

2. In how many listening environments/systems have you auditioned premium power cables?

Zero. I haven’t listened to any

1

2-3

more than 3

 

3. What was your general impression of results of premium power cables?

Awesome!! Blew me away!! (Very, VERY, positive)

Significant improvements (Very positive)

I could hear something good happening (generally positive)

Heard no difference (neutral)

Sounded slightly worse (negative)

Get this thing out of my house!! (VERY negative)

 

4. What is your level of confidence in your evaluation?

A taser upside my head wouldn’t have been more apparent (100% confident)

Very high level of certainty (80% confident)

Made me smile when the cable was installed and the music started playing (60%)

I think I heard something (40%)

Could have gone either way with this (20%)

I’d fail a blind listening test for certain (less than 10%)

I didn’t listen

 

5. How many premium power cables are installed in your system?

Zero. I don’t own any.

1

2-3

more than 3

 

6. How many devices in your system are connected to premium power cables?

Zero. I don’t own any premium power cables.

1

2-3

4-6

More than 6

 

7. What is the approximate total RETAIL value of all of your premium power cables? 0

Zero. I don’t own any

less than $499

$500-$999

$1,000-$2,999

$3,000-$9,999

over $10,000

 

8. How important is the manufacturer’s (or other) premium cable design and engineering story/white paper to your purchasing decision?

Very important. Critical in my buying decision

Somewhat important. Had some affect on my purchase decision

Could care less. Bought them anyway.

Didn’t buy into the story, but bought them anyway

Didn’t buy into the story and chose not to purchase them as a result

The claims turned me off and disqualified the entire premium cable catagory for me

Other (please specify)

 

9. How many generations deep are you into your premium power cables?

Zero. I don’t own any.

Still on my original(s)

On my first upgrade.

On my second upgrade.

On my third upgrade.

Lost count. Hey, I’m a hobbyist. What can I say?

 

10. If you have NOT purchased a premium power cable, what is holding you back?

I want them, but don’t have the disposable income to invest in them

I want them but haven’t gotten around to buying them.

Too confusing.

Haven’t given them a serious audition

Not convinced

My equipment has attached power cords, so I can’t use them

Not applicable. I own premium power cable(s)

Other (please specify)

 

11. Related to your bias, what was your expectation of power cables BEFORE your first audition?

High. I expected a significant improvement

Somewhat optimistic about the result

Plausable. Could have some sonic benefit.

Not plausable. The theory just didn’t make sense to me, but listened anyway.

Low expectations. Was expecting no sonic difference.

There’s NO way these can make a difference.

Other (please specify)

 

12. Have you designed and built your own custom cables?

Yes

No

acman3
4,240 posts
 

Very Interesting results. Thank You!

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