Preamp Deal of the Century

Hi, I am new here and after reading most of the thread (I was convinced to get one an d had to stop to ask this question) what is the best way to contact Mick / Supratek for a Chenin/Syrah ? Thanks.

O.K. I spoke (or wrote too soon). I got excited. I found the site on A'Gon. My novice question: please explain difference between the "line stage version". Thanks.

Line stage means no phono section. While the line stage Suprateks are excellent preamps, IMHO, the phono stage is where they really shine.

Joe, I suspect there is a good reason why Mick made a change to the phono stage of the Syrah and left the line stage alone.

I sent my deposit on for the Syrah in early January. I've written to Mick a few times in the past 3 months and alhtough his e-mails are pleasant, there always seems to be one reason or another why the unit (now the Chenin) isn't ready. Last week, he said he was waiting for cases to come in last Monday. When I first contacted him in December, I think he said it would only be 3 week wait, but I took that with a grain of salt. Is he reliable? I'd hate to push him to get the product and then find that I have problems if something needs repair. I'm starting to think about asking for my deposit back.

Mlkiz - Chill out. If you keep it up you'll make a mountain out of an anthill and ahve no one to blame but yourself. Mick will make it right. Dozens of others on this thread are testament to that.

Well said, Jazzdude.

Mlkiz, we all waited. So should you if you want the "Preamp deal of the Century". If you cancel it will be your loss.

Mlkiz - I can recall myself being at wits end several years ago when I purchased my first Supratek. The wait was a miserable experience for me. The longer the wait went on, the more I thought about canceling the order out of sheer frustration. I am the kind of guy who likes "instant gratification" when I spend money, and when buying a Supratek, NOTHING is instant.

Once I received (and listened to) the Supratek, I understood and I forgave. It was instantly clear that the wait was well worth the end result.

You know... There is one advantage of the long wait - perhaps it has a lot to do with the high resale value on the used market.

Jazzdude, Fiddler, Bwhite:
Nicely put. As I await my Chenin, I keep telling myself that the wait will be worth it. As an unabashed disciple of instant gratification, I check my email every day saying "this will be the day Mick says it's ready to go".

The more I follow this thread the more I am sure that Mick is doing the right thing, and not rushing things just to get them out the door. Art takes time. Those who understand the value of the art and the artisan understand this.

Mlkiz,
Everyone has had to wait; and everyone agrees the wait was worth it. Whenever the impatience creeps in in, just remind yourself how great your music will sound. And, hey, if its not what you expected, you won't have any trouble selling it. Sounds like a win/win situation to me.

What do you guys use/suggest to use with the Syrah/Chenin to get your "prefered" HT or music system. The CHenin seems the way I will go (great feedback from this thread and great price). But since I am starting from scratch, I would like some input for the other pieces of the puzzle. Thanks.

I understand it that it is one man factory, and it is taking time to do such a statement product, I understand that it is taking half year to finally get one. What I do not understand and cannot comprehend why when I asked him in March (I told him that I’m not in any harry and he can take his time) he said that I will have it in 6 weeks! Why he just could not say it would take 6 months ? I do not know like you, but I prefer painful truth them pleasant promises he knew cannot meet. I asked him again I was told that soon. Does anybody knows what soon in Australia means ?
Instead this nice soon I would really prefer 3 months answer, and 3 months would mean 3 months exactly and not even one day more!!!

Sorlowski its kind of like this, you are going out on this blind date that your buddy's wife set-up for you and she is supposedly the cat's meow you see and you have this great anticipation as you go to her place to pick her up. She keeps you waiting and waiting until your anticipation turns to apprehension and you start getting agitated and questioning how you got talked into this mess in the first place and then......finally she makes her entrance and you are entranced by her, totally completely.

OK I admit I got a bit mellow dramatic on that one but I only used it cause it happened exactly like that, same with the Syrah but much worse and a lot longer. After waiting 7 months after being told it would be 3, I can understand the frustration and aggravation. To add further to the wait, several of the tubes were trashed, the power cable was missing and this by the Custom goons who cut a hole into the package and apparently threw everything back into the box without any type of human courtesay to do the right thing and package it the way they found it. You talk about being pissed off and irate. When I passed this info on to Mick his response was he was going to Fed-x me ANOTHER Syrah to replace my damaged one, immediately. Well the damage wasn't so bad after I cooled off, the lacquor finish was cracked on a couple of the edges but was easily repaired and the chrome was intact. The short side of this sad tale is that when I finally got this pre-amp running (about a week after I received it) all my aggravation and frustration were replaced by an instant smile and joy at the whole affair. No I wasn't happy about the custom a-holes, or the wait but it just didn't matter anymore it was all worth it in the end.

Mick is an optimist, keep that in mind. He sure means to have the pre to you in 3 months but I expect his intentions are a little ahead of the reality of his work load. Don't worry, be happy!

I have an unused Cortese if you don't want to wait and would like to save some money.

In order to build a Supratek, Mick must order his parts from various suppliers. It's not uncommon for those suppliers to be out of certain parts and/or have them on backorder.

Reasons for delays in getting a Supratek built are often more complex than it may appear.

First, I could not lead Mike up the garden path, so I will wait for my Sarah|Chenin even 7 months like Tubegroover suggested! I have got this custom to treat people very seriously and world I have said to them even more seriously.
But I cannot promise that I will not lose patients and will not send a email to Mike in September (I decided to wait that long for "soon" to materialize).
Bad thing about this waiting is that the longer I wait the higher are my expectations. And that is do not augur well for Chenin, unless it is that good like you guys are saying...

Has anyone other than Fiddler tried replacing the stock volume pot with the Dact or some other attenuator? I am not excited about losing remote control capability but it appears that the differnece in sound could be dramatic.

Americanflag - yeah... Mick has done it. He actually commented that the results could be very positive to some people and therefore understand why people may prefer it to the standard Alps. The downside to him was that the stepped attenuator allowed for very little margin between too quiet and too loud in his high efficiency system.

Bent Audio offers a remote control for DACT attenuators: http://www.bentaudio.com/parts/dact.html

I am not sure if it would fit in a Supratek outfitted with a phono stage but imagine it could be done.

Mick told me he would install the DACT's as an option.

*I* haven't done the swap yet mostly because I am debating what to do about my system. See - I just purchased a new turntable (which is a keeper) and it doesn't visually match the Grange cosmetics of my Cortese (Gold & Wood). I am considering selling my Cortese to get another one in Chrome finish.

If I were to keep my Cortese, I would certainly try the DACT and when I get a new one, I will order it with the DACT (+ remote if possible).

My suspicion has always been that the stock Alps is not very transparent.

Bwhite, your comments echo my sentiments about the Alps.

I'm not sure what attenuators Mick has tried, but the DACT is 3db steps. Certainly not a problem in my system.

I also by-passed the selector switch and tape monitor switch about a week ago and it was another step in transparency. I only use the CD input, so I went straight from the input to the DACT.

If you do a search at AA about the Alps Blue pot I think you will discover what many others found out about the Alps. It seems to add a layer of grain and/or veils to the music. Everyone who changed it to something else noticed a major improvement.

It seems it took the DACT about two weeks to fully burn in, but after that, no going back!

Since I have the Chardonnay, I think there will be enough room for the Bent remote control. I am going to try it when I have time.

Warren

I have a Chenin on order with the dact. Bwhite, I emailed Mick to see if the remote would fit in a Chardonay and he responded that unfotunately, the step motor is simply too wide for a Supratek, even without the phono stage. I guess I will experience, for the first time, what it is like not having a remote.

Here's another testamonial to replacing the gain pot. Yesterday, I replaced the stock Alps Blue pot with a DACT CT-2 (both 100k) in my Syrah.

I've had the Syrah since early this year. It replaced what I always condsidered a great "bang for the buck" - my Dynaco (Panor) PAS-4.

Needless to say, the Syrah is miles above the Dynaco but at 5x the price, it should be. The thing that I always noticed about the Syrah though, was a slight grain that veiled some of the music detail. I've got a pretty efficient, transparent system using a Heart CD5000 tubed CD player, Scheu Premier MKII tt, JK45 amp, and Altec Model 19 speakers.

I'm very happy to say that after installing the DACT, that grain has all but disappeared! There is much more clarity to the music. This is very noticeable. Not one of those, "If I listen hard enough, I can hear a difference" type mods.

Anyone who is/has ordered one of the Supretek products would be very wise to consider this upgrade. For those that already have one of these fine units, the replacement is very straight forward. Took me all of 30 minutes to complete.

Happy listening,

Steve

I changed the Alps for the DACT attenuator. After some weeks it seems to me that the sound is clearer but not by a BIG margin and if you need the remote control it doesn´t worthwhile in my opinion. But if you can do it without the remote, any improvement, even if subtle, is wellcome.
I guess that evrybody here have subtleties in consideration.

I get the best sound, so far, with:
NU350B as regulators, GE6SN7GTB as line tubes, GZ34 Philips Miniwatt metal base as rectifier and in my case DACT as attenuator.
As phono tubes I use Sylvania 6GK5 and Mullard or Amperex PQ 6688 (E180F).

Great thread guys, very informative, friendly and with lots of great info and advice. Took me 5 nights to read through it all!!

l took the plunge today and sent of my deposit for a Cabernet linestage. l am fortunate to be in the 1% of Aussies that has bought one of Mick's amps, its remarkable how nearly all of them find their way to appreciative audio nuts elsewhere around the world.

Jazzdude > How are you getting on with your Cabernet, how has it settled in to your system? Tried any tube rolling?

Cheers Simon

Mondie - Keep in mind that I use WE 101D's instead of TJ 101D's. They are not interchangeable because there require different tube sockets. The cabernet is slightly fuller than the sauvignon. Beginning in the lower midrange and continuing on down. There is pronounced bass response from about 90hz on down. It is not obnoxious but it is noticeable. I have excised this from my system through other means. I prefer to focus on the midrange.

One area where the cabernet improves on the sauvignon is inner detail and neuance, esp in midrange and upper bass.

The cabernet is surprisingly quiet for a design using DHT tubes. There is a little hum evident when I first power on the preamp, but that is all. There is a capacitor discharge when you turn off the preamp. This discharge isn't present in my sauvignon. People with high-effiency systems will need to be careful.

No tube-rolling yet. I am still getting used to it. I've only put a couple hundred hours on it. The tube compliment I use is the same as before with the WE 101D's added. Although I am happy with the 6L6WGA, there are a couple of tubes I want to try as regulators. One of those is the GEC KT-66. I am also going to pop in the RCA 6SN7GT/VT-231 grey-glass.

Thanks Jazzdude.

Did you order your Cabernet with NOS WE 101D's? Have you past experience with these valves and knew they were superior to the TJ's?

l am really looking forward to getting this amp. As l have upgraded my system the shortcomings of my ARC SP-9 have become more and more evident.

Cheers

i intended to use WE 101D's all along. however, i did not know that they were incompatible with the sockets used by the tj 101d's. we 101d's use uv-4 sockets. they are hard to find and normally expensive when you do. there are a very few current production uv-4 sockets. some of the best are pulls from old western electric amps. i supplied Mick with the sockets that are used in my cabernet. these sockets normally sell for $200-300 ea on ebay. but i managed to picked up some old WE bakelite sockets in excellent condition from a local tube collector.

i have never listened to the tj 101d's but by reputation the we 101d's are said to be superior. the tj's are based upon the WE tubes. the WE 101D's were manufactured under license in Canada, Australia, and I believe the UK also. So there are a few working substitutes to be had. I know in Australia they were manufactured as the STC 4101D. There are a few other variant model numbers as well but they are all basically the same tube.

there are a very few interesting posts on AA by Dowdy Lama and Gordon Rankin regarding the WE 101D and TJ 101D. Search through all forums.

Hi folks:

Just curious whether using the Dynavector high output moving coil (2.8mV) cart is a poor match for the Chenin or Cortese phono stages. The Supratek website states the phono stages are specifically designed for very low output MC's. Perhaps that essentially excludes the use of the Dynavector 20XH. I'm not married to this particular Dynavector model, but it's what I have in my system now. Since I'm on the hunt for a preamp change, going in the Supratek direction may also require me to adjust other components. However, as a mostly vinyl listener, the phono stage praises are surely alluring.

One other question or point. I assume the Suprateks have attracted many of you for the phono stages. If you are at all like me, I enjoy quite a few of the original jazz, blues, rock mono recordings. I note no mono/stereo capability with the Suprateks and perhaps that's just a compromise for enjoying the quality of the preamp, I don't know.

This is the 1227th post to this thread.

holy crap.

TO get up to speed on this conversation, i advised sitting and reading the thread in 275 post blocks. In a week or so, you should get to the end.

Thamnosma - Mick builds his preamps with a mono switch if you ask for it. Or maybe you don't have to ask for it. I specifically stated that I didn't want a mono switch when I ordered my 2 preamps.

Hi,

Would anyone be interested in the Supratek Sauvignon. About 7 months old. Usually used for around 1 hour every two weeks or so. Jarrah with polished stainless steel finish. Absolutely mint condition with Remote, XLR Output and home theatre pass through and original 2 packing fed-ex containers.

Since being a new father, finding quiet time for listening to music is extremely rare.

Regards

I just received my Chenin and noticed that the manual says that that moving magnet cartridges are not recommended. I have a Clearaudio mm cartridge that I like. It has a 3.5 volt output. Does anyone use their Chenin with a mm cartridge?

Hello Mlkiz. I use a grado statement MM with my syrah, however, the output is only .5 mv. Do you have any gain stage flexibilty on your new chenin? I would hazard to guess the 3.5 mv into the riaa stage of the chenin may be a touch high. The only way to really figure this out is to try it and see how it works. All the best.

From what I remember, Mick mentioned 2.5 mV max for the Chenin phono stage (In fact it is written on the manual, Page 1). Reason being is that the circuit is capable of amplifying 0.1 mV input so the lowest gain setting (of the two pots all the way counter clock wise)is still too high for input voltage over 2.5 mV.

I agree with Ecclectique. The only way to know is to try it. I think it will work but may produce some nasties. From what I can remember from the tubes use in stages 6922 and 6C4(1/2 of 12AX7) whose amplification factor can be (33 and 19.5), the gain will come up to be 643.5!

Congrats to your Chenin Mlkiz! I am enjoying mine everyday. Paired it with a 300B SET amp driving a single driver speaker design (MLTL, horn, etc.)and you will hear how good the phono stage really is. I think the money tube is the 6C4 though and not the 6922. It could be in my system only and of course I could be wrong.

I've been listening intensely for a day now to the Chenin and notice that while there doesn't seem to be any problem with gain for my Clearaudio mm cartridge with 3.5 v gain (I'm not even lowering the gain setting in the back), my records sound restricted at the top end. I can barely hear the cymbals and something subtle seems to be missing even from female vocals. The bass does sound great though. I don't seem to have this problem with cds. Has anyone ever encountered this? Any suggestions?

Mlkiz,

I had the same exact experienced (see my previous posts above sometime during April). Be patient, do not roll tubes yet. I posted here regarding the same complaint and Cello, Ecclectique, etc. sent me e-mails privately (thanks a lot again guys!) reassuring me that the preamp will open up after 100 hours or so and stop rolling the tubes. They of course are absolutely correct!

I am using a single driver set up so I know what you meant by losing the highs and subtlety from vocals but only on LP's not CD's because that is exactly what happened to me as well. Ecclectique said " have it running for about a week straight, after that, change the rectifier only and see for your self". I followed the advice and the rest is history.

In fact theres an owner (hifiharry) of Supratek preamp who graciously offered me to try a full set of tubes (RCA VT-231, Mullard GZ-37, Tungsol 6SN7GT, etc. for free to assure me that they are not the tubes. I mean, these guys are terrific and know what they are talking about!

Be sure you have the correct cartridge setting (the 47k, 1000, 100, and 10 Ohms slider switch at the back) because if it is wrong, it sucks the high freq out of LP's. Also, have you tried a different cart?

Hope you can solve your problem soon!

Thanks for your comments. I'm glad that I'm not the only one to ever have experienced this. At Mick's suggestion, I am changing to a moving coil Denon DL 103 cartridge. But are you saying that I need to change the rectifier too? Why is that and what should I change it to? By the way, my fuses keep blowing too, but at Mick's suggestion, I'm going to install a 5 amp slow blow fuse instead of the smaller one that comes with the unit.

5 amps for a preamp! that is freakin huge. the Sim Audio W5 ships with a 6 amp fuse.

Has anyone elase ever had any problems with the fuse on the Chanin or Syrah?

Mlkiz, sometimes the fuse will blow if using a rectifier which heats up too fast. Maybe that's why someone suggested changing the rectifier.

Wanted you to know that the 5amp fuse solved the problem with the fuse and the addition of a Denon DL103 mc cartridge solved the problem with the phono stage. In fact the phono now sounds great.

I would like to thank all the contributors to this thread. Based on your observations, and friendly repartee, I ordered a Chenin, and just received it this weekend, and all I can say is, WOW – what superb esthetics, and glorious music.

As far as I’m concerned, the never ending discussion of whether a CD Player connected direct to an amp is better than a pre-amp in between, has been resoundly answered in the negative! In the case of the Chenin, and my system, there is NO comparison versus direct and Chenin intervention. It’s an understatement to say that inserting the Chenin between my Wadia 861 and CAT JL-1’s created quite an improvement -- dynamics were improved, more detail was heard, the soundstage was better (both depth and breadth), and PRAT and musicality were improved.

Vocals were a prime example of the improvements wrought by the Chenin. They were found to be more “fleshed” out – i.e., they sounded more like a human was behind the voice. Pat Barber’s and Alison Krauss’s vocals were both more musical and detailed -- changes in inflection and breathing were easier noticed without the added glare that sometimes comes with increased detail. And the really good news is that and all of these positives were heard right off of the truck, and out of the box, with essentially no run-in!

So, in the case of my system, by adding more electronics, and cables, I’ve added a layer of simplicity. Yep, it sure is counter-intuitive, but the Chenin sounds better than no preamp at all, and whether that means it’s the pre-amp to end all pre-amps, I ‘m not sure! What it does mean is that it’s a darn good pre-amp, and one that adds, rather than deducts, and as a line-stage, it’s a real keeper.

However, with that said, my primary reason for buying the Chenin was not for its line stage, but for its phono capabilities. Wanting to get back into vinyl after a couple decade hiatus, I thought the Chenin would provide a good avenue for doing this. If it improved my CD playback all the better, but since it is doing so with such aplomb, I’m looking even more forward (if that’s possible) to the receipt of a new Galibier Quattro Turntable, and Tri-Planar Tonearm, and dusting off all the albums I’ve accumulated since the 1960’s.

Thanks again to everyone for the time spent discussing this fine pre-amp, and to Mick for catering to us “Audiophools” (he must be one himself), the Supratek Chenin is truly a wonderful product, and a great find.

Mrmb- You're in for a real treat with the phono stage, and for me the icing was the ability to change cart loading on-the-fly! Let the tube-rolling begin!! Although not until break-in is finished.

Mrmb,

The phono stage of my Chenin is the best thing that ever happened to my vinyl set up! Less cables, more flexibility, better sound purity, you name it.

Now instead of worrying how to improve my system, I am accumulating tons of LP's!

Congratulations! With equipment like yours, the Chenin will be equally at home and then some. Like Swampwalker says, let the unit break in first before tube rolling! In the phono stage, I suggest either the Sylvania Gold Brand 6C4's, RCA black plate 6C4's, or the Tungsol Black Plates 6C4's and Siemens 6922's! With any of this combination in my system, the sound is simply divine!

Cheers!

Mine is on order. Mick is now using 6J6 instead of 6C4 in the phono stage as he says the 6C4 valves are harder to find these days (at least in Australia). He did say, though, that I could use 6C4s (I guess it's a direct replacement, but the 6C4 is a 1/2 12au7 tube and the 6j6 is a dual triode tube historically used as an oscillator). Is that what you are doing? Did your Chenin come with the 6J6/6922 phono stage complement or do you have the original 6C4/6922 combo?

Thanks.

Stephen D.

Stephen,

I do have the original 6C4/6922 combo. But I think the phono preamp section can be re-wired to use 6J6 as well. In my case, I am very happy and does not look into that avenue at all. Besides, 6C4 is not that hard to find here. I also found that even the Motorola 6C4's are good sounding in my set-up. I won an auction at e-bay where I got 12 pieces NOS for $15.00.

Even the very nice sounding, I have a pair, GEC 6C4 at e-bay (I missed the auction!) can be had at $36.00 a quad. That should last a while.

For the 6922's, I am still clinging to my claim that them are not the "money" tube in the Chenin phono. Maybe just me, but I rolled several 6922/6DJ8 like Tele,Amperex, Sylvanias, etc. and even 7308's and not convinced with the results especially for the price I paid for them(although I have Siemens 6922 on the preamp right now).

To each his own, I guess!

Cheers, I bet you will like the preamp!

I just ordered the Chenin too.....I hope I will be very happy like everyone else?...:-)....2 month wait.:-(.....I sold my cables, my preamp, and etc...to get the Chenin....

Is Chenin prettier than the Hovland in real life?....better sounding too right?...I almost purchase the Hovland...but it is not the "Preamp of the Century"....:-)......

Longho68,
2 month wait?! I've been waiting almost 5 months so far. Hope your sell-off of other equip. has not left you "musicless" while you wait.

Mick is doing his best to get these things out to people, but I think we should be realistic and patient with him. It seems our anticipation and wait will be richly rewarded...

Wow, I guess I am lucky to wait for only 2 month.....I am musicless now....:-)......I sold my preamp and Tara Labs The Ones this weekend so that I can applied the funds towards the Chenin...

I hope to find cheaper cables that sound as good as The Ones...

I think you missed my point: my guess is that you will have a longer wait than 2 months. Mick builds the Chenins in the order that they come in. If you just ordered yours, it isn't going to get built before those of us who ordered earlier. I ordered in March and am still waiting...

Longho68,

Caveat the waiting period (as painfull as it is!), remember that those of us who bought the units brand new went trough the same agony. The only difference is that us who have the units now, ordered them earlier than you do. Nothing else, same pain, same anticipation, same wishfulthinking for the day the unit will arrive.

Having said that, the rewards are great my friend. I too was considering the Hovland preamp when I stumble on this thread. I am very glad I did!

My take is that I never heard a tube preamp that delivers as "hard" and as "pure" bass than the Supratek. The praises you heard about how great the midrange is, the delicacy of the midrange when it is called for by the source, IMHO is very much true. The highs compliments the two region very well as well. In short, I really believe that you will be happy!

Aesthetics? Man, if you like the picture on the gallery, you will be shocked how exotic the preamp really looks like in person with woods and all. In fact, I may be crossing the line here, I never wipe my preamp with regular cloth but with 3M static linth free ones . I use compressed air as much as possible to preserve the looks. It commands the room to say the least. Impressive? I can let you ask my friends who wants to buy the preamp from me on the spot by just looking at it! When they heard it, they were floored! I told them the waiting period and I guess some if not all are now in line like you for Mick's wonders.

Sit tight my friend! You made a very "musical" and wise investment.

Cheers!

I owned a Syrah before and now I have switched to Chenin. It is no doubt that the Chenin sounds more superior than the Syrah especially on the phono stage but there is a problem on the choice of rectifier. I can't use Bendix 6106 nor Mullard GZ32 anymore because they provide a lower current output. Unlike Syrah, Chenin has no tolerance on this and it produces a hugh humble noise if not using GZ34 or 5AR4 as the rectifier. Any suggestion on this?