Preamp Deal of the Century


If anyone is looking for a true "World Class" preamp at a very fair price..heed my advice. I just recieved a Supratek Syrah preamp that was hand built by Mick Maloney in Western Australia, and it is absolutely beautiful! This preamp is the best deal you will ever find. I would put it up against any preamp out there for both looks and sound. Price? $2500 for the Syrah (includes Killer Phono stage). Not into phono? Try the Chardonney line stage for $2100. Don't get me wrong, I am not associated with this company. I am just a very happy owner! This preamp is VERY dynamic, yet liquid. It conveys the sound of music better than any other preamp that I have ever heard! You can check out the Supratek website at www. cantech.net.au
slowhand
Hello Joe.Yes, I believe that is the one, however.... It is difficult for me to tell if they are rounded plates in the picture. If they are,and at that money: every Supratek owner should definetely grab a pair. Well done sir?
They are round plates. I actualy got them on ebay, and he has more, buy it now only, at $15 each. Here is the link to the ad:

Ebay 6F6G

His name is David. He has eight left, of different brands. I should have bought all of the ST shaped tubes, but I wasn't thinking. At least he won't jack up the price, so others can get this deal, well, at least 8 more tubes!

Hope this helps.

Joe
Joe,
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Thanks, I snagged a pair of the 6F6g's - You have earned your place in heaven with this one (or at least part of the way there).
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Rgds, Larry
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Chardonnay-what's the best sounding tubes for the line stage, regulator and rectifier. I should have my chardonnay in a couple of days.

Yes, I will let it run in before doing any kind of tube rolling but in the mean time would like to start making a list of prefered tubes and buy them at my own sweet time.

Your valued suggestion's please.
Just got an email from Mick. My Chenin is all done, except for a couple of tweaks. Should be on it's way to me in a day or so. Our long wait is almost over....
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Jay461,
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After a lot of trials, I have had by far the best luck with the following:

Rectifier - Philips Miniwatt GZ 34

Regulators - 1st choice WE 350b (absolute best)
2nd choice Philips Miniwatt EL 37
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Do wait about 200 + hours or more before trying to do any tube rolling.
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Good Luck & Enjoy (you will)
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Cello, Thanks. The 6SN7 tubes like the Kenrad, Raytheon, Tung-sol & GE are apprantely good. Which ones do you recommend?

Looking forward to the pre.
Jay461,

I highly recommend the Tungsol round Plates VT-231/6SN7. There are three types that I have. Looking at the top (clear glass), both filaments are horseshoe shape but one is oriented on the same direction, and the other type is 180 degrees from each other. Also, I have a pair with 180 degrees horse shoe filament but the plate that supports the filament are complete circle instead of an oblong type. All of them sounds great!

On my Chenin, I tried RCA gray glass, Kenrad VT231 staggered plates, Sylvania VT231 bottom getter, and Raytheon VT231's with good results but nothing comes close to the Tungsols.

goodluck
Amandarae, thanks. I'm already having difficulty finding these tubes let alone a reasonable price. Does anyone know where I can find some good buys?
Supratek ownwers, please take a look at this thread: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1100096116&read&3&4&

Thanks.
Jay461,
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Regarding 6sn7 tube choices: For me, in my system, The Tungsol Black Glass Round Plate NOS are the best by a wide margin.
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The Tungsol’s are hard to find but well worth the effort/money.
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Try Bob Malecki at www.tubeseller.com or email him directly at tubeseller.com - best to email him and tell you what you are looking for. He specializes only in 6SN7's. He is not cheap, but quite honest and all of the tubes I have gotten from him have been excellent quality.
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You can email him and if he does not have a tube in stock he will contact you when he finds a pair matching what you want.
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Also try Brendan Biever at www.tubeworld.com or email him at tekman@tubeworld.com. Great inventory of all types of tubes - expensive, but honest and great quality tubes.
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I think you are better off paying a bit more on the expensive tubes from a reputable dealer who will stand behind his products.
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Good luck - you are going to have some fun.
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I agree with Cello. The Tung Sol Black Glass round plates do magic in my Syrah that no other tubes do. My other tubes of choice are GEC KT66's and Rogers 6f6g's in the regulator (I have been rotating them), and Phillips miniwatt 5ar4 in the rectifer position.
Sorry, I meant to say Phillips miniwatt GZ34 in the rectifier position. Cello, what tubes do you recommend for the phono stage of the Cortese. I believe mine will have 6922's.
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Slowhand,
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I bought a bunch of different 6922's for my phono stage and I am just getting started with the first pair. I got slightly sidetracked by a few Hurricanes that rolled through followed by a bunch of traveling.
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I have some Amperex gold pins, Telefunkens and a few others. All were highly recommended and quite expensive. I have it in my plans to start rolling them soon, but it will take a while. They are all NOS, so I will have to break them all in before I can do any worthwhile comparisons.
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I will post my reactions once I get to the point where I can do some fair comparisons.
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I only hope I will not bore you guys to death, but here it goes.
Long time ago while living in Poland I used to have ProAc Studio 100 with Electrocompaniet ECI-2 and Arcam 6 player. I know nothing fancy, but sound for me was excellent, bass was not low but was fast tuneful, I had fast transients, nice micro and macro dynamic. Music simply was alive. I have moved to „apartments” north from Phila (I still did not figured out why they are called this way, apartment in Europe means luxury flat not lousy barn from paper..., how true apartments are called – super apartments squared ?). Now I could afford bigger stereo so I have bought Thiel 3.6 and MF A300 (I’m using the some player). I was expecting better sound. But it was not the case, voices were dead, transients from big Thiels was nonexistent, dynamic in micro and macro scale was nonexistent. How so big speakers could sound so anemic, lifeless ? I just could not understand it because I had audition small Thiels 0,5 while in Poland and they sounded really good to me, they was to expensive to me though ($2000), I have bought Thiel 3.6 for $1800 here :) (Wadia cost 13k$ in Poland and there is no second market for it, AudioAreo Capitole new cost about 7k$). So problem must be somewhere else. After a while I have figure out that paper walls and power mains and L shaped living room with kitchen are to blame. So I figured out I will have to recompense it by buying much better equipment. I changed source from SACD SONY (9000ES) what a downgrade it was - wrong path – think again - this time harder. Next I tried to replace MF A300, so I bought Clayton M100. A little better, stronger bass more liquid sound but still not there. And there is „deal of the century thread”. I did not believed that preamp would matter that much, but it was my last resort, what I got to lose (nothing - no maybe 3k$). After half year of waiting I got it. I was afraid to turn it on to not to be disappointed again. But I have gather my courage and:
first impression with stock tubes was very very positive, I finally disconnected my MF A300 (was using it as pre with Clayton), there was music again, nice rich vocals, liquid sound, even stronger bass, but the most important - sound was alive again like it was years ago. I was really moved. Even BMG CD’s are now listenable. So even lousy power mains in my „apartment” (when my wife is ironing bulbs are blinking like Christmas tree) were not able to kill Supratek spirit that good it is. How preamp could make such difference (cdp, power amp could not do it) I do not know. I just cannot imagine and wait when some day I will be back to my 1.5 feet wide brick walls in Poland and will connect it to decent power mines. It could be really something. But for know this is my first not SS component. I’m trying to improve it by tubes rolling. So far I have changed to Ken Rod Black Glass VT231 and Philips Miniwatt, there is a difference vs. stock tubes but it is really small, maybe will be bigger after cdp upgrade, and I’m sure will be huge after barn to true apartment upgrade :) so there is a lot for me to look forward.
Sorlowski,

I am glad that the thread I started 2 and a half years ago has led you to the Supratek family. Welcome aboard!
Mondie, have you received your Cabernet? Dying to know how it sounds!!

Sorlowski, I enjoyed reading your thread. It did not bore me to death, in fact it actually strengthened my faith in Supratek. I'm sure with you'll get your ideal "apartment" soon.

Cheers,
Kenji...still waiting patiently for my Cabernet.
No Cabernet yet Ongaku, but hoping to have it in 3-4 days.

Dont worry, you'll hear all about it!

Cheers
Quick question: Are Cello and I the only ones with the 6c45pi tube in the phono stage? Vade was kind enough to email a link for new Reflektors, but the seller is in Europe, and his minimum order is $140. That's 13 tubes. SO' I'll make the order if there are some of you who can use them. They can't be much more than $13 including shipping. I need four, so that's 9 up for grabs. Enough interest and I'll order on Monday, 15 Nov.

Joe
One more thing. I got my NOS, NIB Sylvania 6F6G's yesterday. After leaving the SyrTese on for a couple of hours while we went out for oysters, it was time for some serious listening and drinking. The system was ready after leaving one of those little silver things on repeat.

While the women bitched about the volume, a friend who has spent quite a lot of time listening to my system said: "What the hell's up? It didn't sound like this last week." He didn't even notice those big old fat bottle tubes in the PS. All he knew in his decidedly non-audiophool way was: "Man, that's the cat's ass! It sounds great!" And that was even with an album I'm not particularly impressed with. When I whipped out the old classic MOFI DSOTM, he about wet himself!

Suffice it to sat that I am EXTREMELY impressed with this tube. David, I cannot thank you enough for the reccomendation. I can say now that I will not be looking for another set of WE350b's. I was more amazed than my buddy. Now we all know there are some truly exceptional tubes that make a Supratek come alive, and this is one of them. And only $35! Compared to 6-8 hundred for the WE's?

If you can find a set, try them. Far and away the best tube improvement I've heard so far. And that's after 4 hours of listening. I can't wait for them to really open up.
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Joe,
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Count me in on 4 Reflektors. I don't want to be the reason that you do not continue to buy more tubes.
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Have you started saving for your new Grange ?
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Rgds, Larry
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Ecclectique,I just want to pass along a big thank you for your reccommendation of the Sylvania 6F6g.I picked up a pair,as new in original boxes, matched to with in 1 ma.Incredible in my Chenin. It has been a month since they were installed and I still cannot get over what they did for my system.
Cello, Amandarae & Slowhand thanks again. You guys are right its almost impossible to get the Tung-sol 6SN7.

Just curious what would be second best to replace the Tung-sol 6SN7 and the Philips miniwatt GZ34?
HI Jay461,I am using a pair of Sylvania 6SN7W metal base along with the Sylvania 6F6G to stunning effect, yes the metal base 6SN7W are very rare,I have two pair of Tungsol black glass round plates ,one pair as new, never been plugged in yet... There is something going on between the Sylvanias that I like better, I need more time with comparing the Tungsols and the metal base Sylvanias.I am hunting down another pair of Sylvania metal base and will sell my near N.O.S. Tungsols once I find them.The tube store has some Philips mini watts non metal base for your p.s. if you are interseted.
Thanks Stiltskin, the price for those miniwatts are steep for me. Hence the second choice. I'm using my Chardonnay with a solid state power amp (MC352) and looks like most of you here are using an all tube set up(?).

Could there be a different combonation of tubes for solid state as opposed to a tube amp?
If so, then that begs the question what are the best tubes for the Chardonnay in a SS set up?
I asked Mick about wich one of SAUVIGNON (linestage of Cortese) or CABERNET (linestage of Grange) would work better with single ended triodes like Cary 805C.
He said that although the CABERNET is the cream of their preamps both have the ability to bring out the best of the Cary, although the Sauvignon has lower gain and might have better volume control...
Does it have any importance with respect of amps? or is it more important if you have sensitive loudspeakers?. Or both?.
Compared with the Syrah gain he said that the the Sauvignon is about the same as the Syrah in "low" gain while the Cabernet is about in between of the "low" and "high" positons.
Someone could explain it?.
I´d like to pair one of those preamps with Cary 805C Single Ended Triodes (50 watts) and Von Schweikert db99 loudspeakers (99db sensitive).
I´d rather the CABERNET but I´m affraid to have very little volume control.

HI Jay461 if you want to have a sweeter sound with your SS try RCA VT231 grey glass.

If you want a substitute in almost the same ligue for Philips Miniwatt metal base look for GZ34 of these kind:

-bakelite black base
-with good flash down the top mica
-double D getters
-4 notch plates
-from the late 50,s and early 60´s
-branded GE or RCA. (with hole in center of base pin)
You can find them maybe as low as around $30-$40 if you look patienly.

I like 4 cut and double getter better than 8 cut single getter. 4 cut double
getter is older, single getter was a cost cutting measure, cost cutting is
usually bad for sound quality.
Around the middle 60's the tube companies tried to cut production costs and
many changes were bad for sound.
My favorite GZ34 bakelite base was from late 50's. Like 1959 was a great
sounding year!.

But again the best are Philips Miniwatt , Mullard or Valvo GZ34
metal base. They are the best althogh hard to say for how much compared with the GZ34 bakelite base.
Hi,
I am wondering any Supratek fellow out there tried a pair of Mullard CV181 in the line stage (especially in the Chenin/Syrah)? How does it compare to the Tung-Sol round plates or Ken Rad black glass?
I use Mullard CV181 / ECC32's in my Cortese. Take note, they are electronically different than 6SN7's. You can see photos of 'em in my system - good looking tubes to be sure. I think they sound very nice - much like the TungSol Rounds.

Regarding the different electrical properties, I tried the CV181's in a friends Syrah and for whatever reason the preamp remote control stopped working and there was very low gain while the CV181's were in. Perhaps Ecclectique
can explain?

NOS CV181's are hard to find & quite pricey.
Bryan,

Thanks for the feedback. I agreed that those are really good looking tubes. I read from somewhere that the CV181's require higher current on the plates than the regular 6sn7 varieties, maybe that's the issue. Is it possible that the higher current rated GZ37 or GZ33 or even the 6106 could do better in this case than the GZ34.
Eccletique the guru might be able to comment on this.

Maybe I should continue with the quest for the TungSol rounds instead if they are sonically close. The TungSols are almost non-existent nowadays, sigh! It is starting to feel like an itch that the hands can't get to.
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Opusone,
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Please stop looking for Tungsols. You are just making it harder for the rest of us to find a good pair. Besides, they are not really any good.
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I agree. They are way over-priced. And they sound like crap. And I want a pair too!
Please stop looking for...other then:

-WE350B
-Tung Sol VT231 6SN7 round plates, black glass
-Philips Miniwatt GZ34 metal base

Don´t waste your money like I did trying the whole staff.
Those are the best, period.(Sorry)

I appreciate some information about the new PX4
This is posted as a heads up to those of you still waiting for your preamps from Mick, if they are being shipped into the USA.

Make sure you provide Mick your Social Security Number or your EIN if you are a business, and insist that Mick include this info on the customs paperwork. Ask him to confirm with you that he did so. I sent him my information when I paid for mine but did not ask him for confirmation. As a result, my Chenin is stuck in Anchorage, Alaska in a customs delay for lack of either of those two numbers.

It seems that you also have to ask Mick for the FedEx tracking number as he doesn't send it if you don't ask. After failing to recieve mine in the 3-4 window last week. I emailed him tonight, got the tracking number saw that it was still in customs in Anchorage, called FedEx in Memphis, gave them my SS# and phone number. The agent I spoke with tonight was very helpful and said that now that the info was in the shipping data, it was her opinion that it could clear customs as early as tomorrow.

I thought by learning from another owner who went through the same thing, I could avoid it by supplying Mick the info up front with my payment and a follow up email.

Now- how long from Anchorage to the East Coast? Not to mention the Thanksgiving Day factor. Oh well, waited 8 months, another week won't kill me...

Slipnot,
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Call Fed Ex, explain what has happened and ask the favor of moving it to you by a late Wednesday afternoon delivery.
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They can move the shipment Monday night (assuming U.S. Customs does their thing on Monday) from Alaska to Memphis and then out from Memphis early Tuesday or Tuesday night and then possibly deliver to you on Wednesday.
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I would ask for a supervisor tonight (Sunday) or Monday AM first thing and see if they can push it through Customs early on Monday and beg them to move it Monday night.
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They do sometimes respond to emotional pleas. Do let them know it is a big deal to get it before Thanksgiving and how long you have been waiting.
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If all works out well, you can piss your family off by screwing around with your new Supratek instead of by watching a game.
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Rgds, Larry
Hi Gang. Jphii and Stiltskin, thank you for your kind words regarding my recommendation of the 6f6g as regulators in the suprateks. They still continue to be a revelation to me as well. Bwhite.... I am a little perplexed as to why the cv-181/ecc32's would cause that effect to the remote in your friends syrah, as I had none of these problems when installed in mine. That said..... I should clarify a few things here first. Although the cv181 and 6sn7 have the same pin out and can be substituted in "some" circuits.In actual fact....they are quite different electrically and one must be very careful here. The cv 181/ecc 32 has different electrical characteristics and parameters. The cv181/ecc32 has different mu,gm, bias points and also requires much higher heater current than a 6sn7. It also has close to 30% more gain then an american 6sn7, and will sound louder than the 6sn7 at equivalent gain level. Some will perceive this extra gain to sound better,fuller,etc . While I concurr that the bottle shaped ecc32 is a great sounding tube when optimally biased ....however, it should really be rebiased when used in the supratek and would sound even better if it was biased closer to it's optimum sweet spot. However... like a many tube circuits, "system synergy" is the optimum word here and is really what tube rolling is all about. Jpms.....regarding your concerns with gain and sensitivity issues of the cary 805c when paired with highly efficient speakers.I can assure you that there would never be an issue with any of the supratek gain options or gain configurations. The Cary 805c [when optimized and voiced with better tubes] has to be considered one of the finest sounding tubed amplifiers ever made and certainly top shelf by anyones standards.When paired with the Supratek, you have a synergy that is nothing short of breath taking! I use Tannoy Westminster [98db efficient] and powered them with the 805c for more than 3 years and I still kick myself for selling them. When I received my syrah [which has both a high gain/low gain switch]. I never had an issue with noise or any other glitch's with either gain setting. A very big caution here though; and a good example of what I was alluding to earlier! If you have acquired the cv181/ecc32 to substitute the 6sn7 in your supratek. Do "NOT" substitute these for the 6sn7 in the Cary 805c, the current draw for the cv181/ecc 32 is far to high for the filament transformer in the cary 805c and could damage both the amp and the tube!!!
Not many of these pieces show up used - about how many Supratek pre-amps have been sold in the good ole' USA? I guess they're so good no one ever lets them go?
Jumpin' Jehosaphat! My wife just called me at work to tell me the Chenin has arrived at our doorstep! I'm going home at lunch to unpack my new toy.....
Hello,

Anybody using their Supratek with BAT VK series (particularly the VK100 and the like) or Krell KSA series?

Comments/suggestions will be greatly appreciated!
Speakers are Magnepan 1.6QR.

Thanks!
Have somebody tried Supratek with Manley NeoClassic 250 ?
Would it sound better (more dynamic, open, tuneful) them with Cary 805c ?
Hello Sorlowski. I have never heard the manley neoclassic, however.... The 805c's partnered with the supratek is a marriage made in heaven. Far and away the best combo I've ever heard in my rig. They really seem to compliment each other in a synergistic way. The superb clarity and bass speed of the supratek seems to offset the rather soft and bloomy bottom end of the cary. The midbass/lower bass performance of the cary 805c is it's only real liabilty in my books, and surely must be considered one of the finest sounding amplifiers of all time. I'm still kicking myself for selling my pair, especially after hearing them again with a kr 300bxl driver tube[instead of the stock chineese 300b] Man..... what a revelation that was! Unfortunately... I didn't have my supratek at that time to hear this combo sing together. Bet you can't guess what my next pair of amps will be?
I've had my Supratek for all of about 6 hours now, and I can say that pictures DO NOT do this thing justice! Audio jewlery is an understatement. Beautiful fit and finish. I am not going to even consider tube rolling for a couple of hundred hours until I get a handle on this thing. It is so far superior AND different than the ARC SP 9 mkII it replaced. Initial impressions are of far more weight to the music, wider swings in dynamics, massive soundstage and that seductive sound that no hybrid or solid state preamp can accomplish. This thing is truely a giant killer. Thanks guys for turning me on to this. A big thank you to Mick Maloney for giving the world this beautiful looking and sounding product.
Congrats Slipnot,
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I am delighted that you got your Supratek before the long weekend.
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Try not to pay some attention to your family on Thanksgiving.
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Have a blast. It will get so much better in a couple hundred hours......and just wait till you roll some NOS in there. You are in for quite a nice ride.
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Enjoy.
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Genelex KT-66 (smoke glass) for power regulation -> Are they really good? BTW, Happy Thanks Giving to all Supratek Owners!

Cheers,
Kenji
Hey Kenji. Yes sir, one of the best. Even better if you already have a pair to put in the preamp. Otherwise, I would suggest searching for a pair of the bottle shaped 6f6g's at approximately 25% of the genelex as they are every bit as good if not better. Enjoy your thanksgiving down there gang.
l received my Cabernet last week with the PX4's revsion and am blown away by it. Like Slipknot l upgraded from an ARC SP9 Mkll and cannot believe how much difference this pre has made to my system. Music has never been so natural, involving and relaxing. It looks dead sexy to. Believe the hype!

Its so good its got me wondering what Mick's power amps are like, anybody here heard or own one?

Cheers
Congrats Mondie, Slipknot1!

Like what Cello said, buckle up and the journey is about to begin!

Yes, Ecclectique is absolutely on the money with the bottle shaped 6f6g. I bought a pair and compared it to my "use to be" favorite regulators (GEC Gold Lion and GEC regular KT-66). No contest! I saw Joe's(jphii) post above and got the last pair from David. Eureka! The Gold Lion and regular GEC are now cash money (courtesy of ebay) for the holidays!

From my experienced, the Sylvania black glass (Green label)6F6G (ST type)should be named "Mandatory Supratek Regulator Tubes"!

Happy thanksgiving to all!
Abe,

You didn't get the last pair, I just got 4 more! He said they were used, but 3 test NOS. Just no boxes. The other set test ok, but one has some rattles. So I'm set for life.

Mondie & Slipknot,

I hope you don't have big plans for T-day. It sounds like you may be spending the day enjoying your new toys with your turkey. I can't wait to hear what you think of the PX4.

Happy Thanksgiving!!

Joe
Joe,

I thought I had, my mistake! He did say that he have some other brands, but I am looking for just the Sylvania. Oh well, it does not change the fact that they are very-very good regulator tubes on the Supratek.

Happy thanksgiving to all!