Preamp Deal of the Century

Well let's just hope that Mick can keep up with it all. Very ambitious for a one man shop. I am also very intrigued by what I have read here and elsewhere. I am damn near ready to order the Syrah and I don't mind waiting 3 months but...what is this business about quality control problems, is it prevelant or just isolated? Bwhite, you have been the eloquent spokesman on this thread, could you fill us in on the details?

Bwhite - The fact that the units are NOT identical and have the flavor of being individually built is very appealing to me. The problem I don't want to have is being on the receiving end of a product made the other side of the world with internal quality problems because of pressure by the designer to meet schedules.

Quality Control can become a big issue, I've seen it happen to many small businesses when they get stretched too thin. I will speak with Mick about this concern. Thank you and the others so much for your excellent comments and insight on this company.

Boy I just love the comradrie of this group. There must be something indeed special about these products. Too much positive energy. Just the waiting, anticipation, trials and tribulations and finally the support from each other, it is one of the best sides of this hobby. My pre-amp just went out a few weeks ago, maybe its a sign? Almost ordered one on my last post but deferred due to the delays in shipment. Now I'm having second thoughts.

Fiddler we haven't heard from you in a while. What is going on?

Slowhand, ASA, Mike, Bwhite, Rockhead and the rest of you guys have convinced me, so I'm on the bandwagon waiting for Miss Sarah. Besides, I needed a new pre-amp after the power supply on my CAT just went, a few electrolytics went a bit beyond their useful life. Very good timing and just the excuse I needed to push me over the top.

Nathan

Since you are starting from scratch, the pre-amp would probably be the first place to start. As TWL notes and I would agree, if you are considering the Berning make sure you match it with a friendly load, 8 ohms. The Merlin/Berning synergy is magic if you have the rest of your system properly matched.

No but I have a Sarah on order and expect to receive by....well Mick can't exactly tell me but maybe 2 months or less, I hope. I also have the VSM's and zh270.

Hpdhondo, forget about the reading and get on with the listening. If you really want to know how to start with tubes it is only through the "experience". It's like a virgin reading or viewing pornography to experience a love relationship. There is no substitute for touchy feely contact.

Where did I start? When I first heard a high end tube system that touched my emotions, this after a long haitus from tubes. I haven't looked back since.

Asa when I ordered mine I was told that it would be 3 months. To be honest I really didn't believe it as I expect that Mick is an optimist and I won't fault him for that. What I would fault him for is streamlining production at the expense of delivering less than the hand assembled product of legend lore per this thread. It has been 6 months which coincides with the time Streetdaddy ordered his, I sent out a check early October.

So if you're listening Mick, I'll not mind the wait but won't accept less than your best to date!

I agree Bwite. I have never heard a conditioner in my system that didn't have a signature. Power cords for the proper application are a better solution for filtering than conditioning devices IMO. I have gone the mile of putting in multiple dedicated circuits with hospital grade outlets, a couple of those Albert Porter cryoed Hubbles along with a few others. The Hubbles are extremely well constructed and really grab. Contact is so very important. I also use 10 guage wire from the outlet to the breaker, a bit overkill I admit but this whole hobby is filled with that and I feel in excellent company with this crowd. The dedicated outlet/power cord route is probably a better solution for most and should be considered before going the conditioner route and having it end up in a closet or basement. "For What Its' Worth"

The deal might be if it is in as new condition you won't be running the risk of having it damaged during shipping i.e. some monkey in Customs repacking it like a 9 year old stuffing his toy box as Mom is screaming "Have you cleaned your room yet?" OUCH!!

For a practically brand new piece that has a 6 month wait paying full retail or close isn't a bad deal, is it?

Well Asa, I wish I could just comment further on my impressions of this pre-amp after an almost 7 month wait but I'll just have to wait a bit longer to offer my imput. My last post sums up where I am right now as I wait for replacement tubes, it is quite frustrating.

Timchen I have noted your distant but obvious interest in this pre-amp. You have certainly been keeping your eye on this thread. I'm going to give you my complete unbiased opinion based on a few hours of listening to the line stage.

The Sarah is at once dynamic, resolving, smooth, with great bass and just amazing immediacy. This is just an initial impression but will be lasting because it is immediately obvious how special it is, especially at the price point but not only because of that fact. The pre isn't even close to being broken in so these are early impressions compared to a CAT SL-1, older but with good tubes and a few modern upgrades. Yes the CAT is smoother now because it is settled in. But I sure can hear the intrinsic character of the Sarah and I know it is going to improve as it breaks in.

I initially felt the Supratek would have to be mighty good to replace the CAT in a manner that would not have me second guessing if I would make the right decision. The only reason I bought this pre was because of the accolades of experienced audiophiles and the price. After 10 minutes of listening to the Supratek, out of the box, new tubes, not even broken in I'll tell you, it will put a smile on your face, a no brainer, simple decision and validates once again my faith and belief in concensus among my fellow audiophiles.

I expect that some of the users that are selling are doing so for various reasons including finding something better. But I'll tell ya something Tim, if someone can direct me to a full function active pre-amp for anywhere close to 2.5K that has the extraordinary musicality and capability this pre does, I would be interested in hearing about it. Don't think twice Tim, unless you are prepared to spend at least twice as much or more. I truly don't believe you'll find it.

Yes Tim, I would expect the Supratek will match up very well. It has plenty of gain that is also adjustable, very flexible and great fit and finish. At this level of performance both the CAT and Supratek are excellent pre-amps. I don't think you could make a bad choice with either. The differences may be more a matter of price, how much you are willing to pay and taste. The title of this thread is most appropriate.

Yes Walter, I have no doubt about how good this pre-amp will get. And now for my search for the right tubes to get there.

Slowhand you must try NOS tubes with the Berning along with the cryoed 6jn6 outputs along with the custom ERS mods through Allan Baghan. If you are just listening to a stock unit, you ain't heard nothing yet! The Berning is very tweekable and its performance can be much improved. Its level of clarity is definitely top shelf.

For the 12AT7's I have tried the Brimars, Tung Sols and just installed Amperex Bugle Boy's French made and have a set of Telefunken's, not diamond plate. I really like the Tung Sols, more air, bloom and richness. The Brimars have the detail but are not quite as "musical" to my ears. The Amperex Bugle Boys I really need to listen to more and the Telefunkens are waiting in the wings.

The dynamics of the music with this combo is at times uncanny, like a horn system on some music. I've never heard the Merlin's come so alive. The presence on a great recording can make you almost believe you are there. This pre-amp is something quite special on an absolute level. It is hard to believe that this level of performance can be realized at the price. What a deal!

As an aside, my wife, who is not an audiophile spent 1 hour glued to the seat listening the 2nd night I had this pre. This is a first folks and we've been married 15 years and I've been into the "hi-end" hobby before we met. She is amazed at the naturalness of the music. I suppose that is the best adjective to describe the Supratek, It just gets you closer to the performance, the subtle things that make music come alive. Words can't describe it, only listening will. It makes you realize that in designing components there is definitely a large element of art otherwise more components would sound this "right".

While I think the phono stage is excellent and it is what everyone says, I am utterly amazed at the line stage.

Slowhand the 5965's GE "5 Star" NOS Platinum 1% pair 1970's (equivalent to 12AV7's) can be purchased from Brendan at Tubeworld.com. He seems to have found a cache of these. Very nice tubes. I have since replaced with Tung Sols but plan to put the GE's back in with the various 12AT7's I have on hand. The mixing matching possibilities are seemingly endless but it is the only way to find the magic that just "gets it right".

So far as the ERS mod goes, what is most notable is how much quieter or blacker things become, a lower noise floor. The result of elimination of RFI which you aren't aware of until its gone. The sound is so much more relaxed and effortless yet at the same time more resolving and dynamic. The effect of this change allowed me to actually *feel* the bass from the VSM speakers which is a first. Of all the mods and tweeks I've done to the amp including Still Points and cryoed tubes,upgrading coupling caps, this one is definitely the most significant, a must.

Asa mentions a few things above concerning the Berning and Supratek combo which I would tend to very much agree with, it is imperative that the right tubes be used. The Berning could be misconstrued by some, those that have listened to SET OTL amps, yours truly included, to be a bit lean in comparison. Actually it is lean compared to a Joule (what isn't?) but which one would be more preferable? The question is rhetorical and of course taste would dictate which would be best, both are great amps but are offered as contrasts in a direct comparison of different schools of thought in how reproduced music sounds. The real point here is that mixing and matching tubes with the Berning can tailor the sound more to a particular taste and balance. I doubt that the Amperex are going to best the Tung Sols so would consider the latter mandatory for this amplifier based on its tonal balance. I will keep you posted on the Amperex when I get the chance to evaluate extensively. Too many changes at once including evaluation of speaker cables. It sure seems the Supratek is a great candidate for extensive tweeking as well.

The reason I'm responding is that I am the first poster to reach the 500 post milestone on this site, I think. Seriously Todd, I doubt if you are going to find a used Sarah with remote at much less than 3K but you will probably get a few extras including NOS tubes and forgiveness of Custom duties not to mention the savings of shipping costs from down under to your front door and last but certainly not least, the wait. The reason you might find one is that some deep pocketed audiophile with the resources to own whatever he likes probably bought one and in the interim of the wait found something better. Just an off the wall hypothesis but why else? I doubt there is anything that approaches what this pre does at anything close to its price. It is just a wonderful piece.

I would say if you could find a Sarah with remote for less than or around 3K you probably would have a difficult time doing better and surely could do a lot worse. Save your money but don't expect a find for much less than retail.

Funny from the first time I saw the spelling I saw it as Sarah and have pronounced and spelled it as Sar-ah since. Now it's Sear-a? Very nice tone to it, I like it.

So it's about wines, I see and now I have a completely different perspective of where Mick might be coming from. Mick, could you or any other of the down under blotes (Steve?) chime in and clue us on what is a Syrah?

Hi Bwhite

I read your post and my first reaction was a smile which is to say, I suspected as much. My guess is that the Syrah is such a complete product that anything bettering it would be to matters of degree, nothing that would overwhelm its performance. While I haven’t heard everything out there, you sure can hear when a product has the fundamental rightness of this design, kudos to Mick and his most astute hearing acuity and design capabilities.

You may have set yourself up in expecting that at twice the cost there should be a proportional improvement correlating to the difference? Of course the laws of diminishing returns rears its head and tells us that while there are always improvements that can be made to any design, the cost of doing so is proportionately higher than the improvement realized. My guess is that the Cortese is a big enough improvement for Mick to justify spending the time and charging the difference to justify its cost and reason to exist with the Syrah but at the same time the Syrah is so fundamentally right that maybe we would expect it to be superceded to a higher degree than is possible looking at the 2X difference in price?

I think over time you will come to realize the differences between the 2 pieces but the question is, will you be able to justify the price difference to others that will look to your opinion in whether it is worth it or not? Just my two cents that I’m adding because of my previous experiences in your letdown. Just give it time, you may arrive at a different conclusion as you live with the Cortese and come to recognize something subtle that it does that escapes the Syrah but which you come to realize is worth the price of admission. I for one am waiting for this to develop as you have been a most articulate and compelling spokesman for Supratek products.

Hi Tom, if you ever take a vacation down to Florida, we have a few family attractions that some folks clamor to see, you are always more than welcome. If you have a family, it is a great two birds with one stone trip.

Hi Larry

I think the appeal of the Supratek is the value, aesthetics (if you happen to find the open architecture attractive) and performance. What caught my attention was the description of its sound, which in my experience comes with a much higher price tag. Liquid, dynamic, resolving with excellent bass from a tube pre usually involves a hefty power supply, which aren't done on the cheap. Consistent descriptions of this pre delivering these qualities at 2.5K open ones eyes. At least it did mine.

There are many in this hobby that are value driven for several reasons, limited resources and the fact that some don't want to spend more than is necessary regardless of the resources available. What Mick Maloney has managed with this pre is to offer a product that is within the price reach of any serious music lover without too many compromises other than the fact that there is a wait involved because it is individually hand assembled by Mick himself, another appealing fact.

There is no doubt the First Sound pre is a great piece and its upgradeability is another appealing reason for its consideration. Still it starts at 500.00 more than the Supratek Sarah and doesn't include a phono stage. The point is that the value of Supratek products can not be overstated. There are many audiophiles that will pass on it because they don't want to wait and they would be wary of service from a one-man shop on the other side of the world, something to think about. On the other hand when you hear this pre-amp first hand the considerations should be, do I want to wait and locating a tech who can fix the pre if there is a problem. I would expect that problems would be minimal but would arise initially as they do with most products. These problems could be resolved through Mick. His service ethic is top notch but one must remember, he is a one-man shop and isn't superman.

The price/performance of the Supratek Sarah and Chardonney is definitely worth these considerations. Interestingly enough, I was just speaking to someone last week concerning this pre vs. a First Sound. He is going ahead with the First Sound because he doesn't want to wait and he is afraid of not getting prompt service if something does go awry. I am sure this will keep many folks from considering this great product. I did have a problem during shipping, it seems customs cut an opening in the box to inspect it and "threw" the pre back in without properly repacking it. When I received it, the cans were resting on the bottom of the box without any support, the rectifier tube and cord were missing and 2 tubes were shattered along with some minor damage to the wood case, which I repaired. Everything else was ok. Mick was extremely upset with this development and offered to send a new pre out to me the next day! I was also upset but did calm down a bit after I finally got some tubes in it to listen, didn't have any 6sn7's on hand so had to wait. The point is that he was extremely concerned and responsive and I was just so blown away by the music coming from the pre that the shipping problems I did have just went out the window. I never even bothered to file a claim to Fed-ex since it really wasn't their fault. What I was really pissed at and still am is that the apes working for customs didn't show the respect for personal property that they should and will never will because they are immune from the consequences of their actions.

On another tangent but one worth considering to all that read this is to please report this when and if it happens to you. Only if enough do will steps be taken to change the procedures of inspections. There is really no excuse for the condition of the contents I received. It really did look as though a kid threw the contents in the box without the LEAST consideration for its safe arrival to its final destination.

I have been withholding this but I think it just needs to be said so no one will have any misunderstanding or apprehension, don't think about it if you are, just do it. If you have a budget that permits it, you can't make a wrong decision with the Supratek. It is impossible unless you are prepared to spend considerably more money. Even so, the decision will still be valid because it can be resold without losing anything or very little and if you don't go ahead with it you will most likely never have the opportunity to hear if you made the right choice or not and the curiosity will never subside until you forget but after so many posts on this thread and still counting, the death of curiosity may prove quite slow.

My reason for the above comment is because I have communicated with a few that are on the fence and I have been too conciliatory to their concerns, the wait and the service. This is the real deal it can't be overstated. It is a 7K or better pre for 2.5K, it really is. I waited 5 months longer than I should have. If only I had believed what I read from the beginning. Read Mark Bucksath review on the Supratek website, and read it very carefully http://www.supratek.biz/review.htm

If you can connect to the contents of his most wonderful descriptives of this product, you will hear the Syrah. Keep in mind this recommendation is based on the extreme value of what you will hear, not in the context of the "best" that may be available. If you are prepared to pay considerably more, you will certainly have more choices. I have NO doubt this is the best pre-amp value at this price point on the planet and it is very easy to say it.

Tom - I certainly understand where you are coming from so far as deadening the sound of a musical instrument is concerned but a pre-amp or tt or amplifier isn't a musical instrument but a component to transfer the signal unadulterated. How can something that minimizes or removes vibrations affect the dynamics of the signal? I would think that a "livelier" foundation might exaggerate dynamics yet also possibly add smearing. Why is damping unwanted vibrations from outside influences a bad thing?

Bobheinatz, I don't think it matters what amp you use, tube or ss. The Supratek has more than enough gain and flexibility to be used with any amp. The amp/speaker match is more critical. The output impedance on the Syrah is 600 ohms.

I am using a Berning ZH270 with superb results but expect most of the Supratek owners will tell you the same.

I agree with Bwhite regarding this matter. Furthermore using this forum for such an announcement seems inappropriate to me. I would hope for a nominal cost that Mick would offer to upgrade the existing Cortese and Grange out there to the level of the "new and improved" models if it is possible. If not, he might have been wiser in not using this forum to display his enthusiasm.

Having said that and getting back to the topic of the thread "Preamp Deal of the Century", don't believe for a second that that the value and performance of the Syrah and Chardonney have been diminished by Mick's post. They are superb performers in their price range and above and most importantly, a great value. After all, how many handmade, hardwired, transformer coupled full function all tube pre-amps are available for 2.5K? I would welcome knowing of just ONE that performs to this level at this price point.

But its a real problem, everytime ya think your at the top of the heap they pull you back into the mix with something better.

btw Bwhite, I am not concerned about the value of my Syrah falling, that isn't the reason I bought it in the first place. Furthermore, if something comes along that bests it by a substantial margin at a similar price, I would consider it a breakthrough and would chalk it up to REAL progress. And if your Cortese is that much better than the Syrah, I'm sure there would be interested potential buyers, myself included. If it is just a matter of improvement in the noise floor at the high gain setting, I just so happen to own an amp where this would be a non issue.

Nice post Steve. My objection to Mick's comments was strictly based on the good news, bad news without mention of recourse to the bad news as was Bwhite's it seems.

Khrys, in the world of audio and wines, based on my experience which is reasonably broad with the former and decidely limited with the latter, the Supratek products would have the bouquet and flavor of a finer vintage at a price the common man might afford. While I love wine I purposely keep myself from getting too involved, I really don't need another expensive hobby so I limit my palate to expensive beers :)

Now to a true connoisseur such as yourself, the flavor of this product might not be on par with your obviously refined tastes and resources to acquire the absolute best so in that vein the Supratek may not be your cup of tea..er glass or wine but it is none the less a great value and a great product, a fine vintage at a truly excellent price, no hype, really.

Khrys, maybe some were offended maybe not. My guess is that many felt that your comments were a bit brisque in light of the fact you haven't listened to the product. I would only smile NOW at someone that would question the concensus of such a diverse group many with years of experience in this hobby. I was apprehensive myself but at the price and the raves felt it was well worth the risk. This product transcends word of mouth, it delivers on the hype. It is the only product I have purchased in my audio life that I would feel very comfortable recommending on a price/performance quotient. The value is just unbelievable and can't be fully realized by anyone reading this thread until experienced. I am not going to say it is the best product out there or that another product will not work better in a given system but I would ask, at what price? It is well worth taking a gamble on since the demand is higher than supply and some don't want to wait the 4-5 months it takes for delivery. You really can't lose on this one.

Good point Tom, but let me ask you a question, what component in ANY system isn't adding a degree of coloration? And what system recreates the real event? The pipedream is to think otherwise or that one technology supercedes another by virtue of the fact it is the preferred one. A nice simile is fine for now but I don't expect that the technology for reproduced as real has yet arrived or is on the immediate horizon. And besides, what would we all do if we didn't have something to "tweek"? Musical enjoyment should always be the goal, reality although a fine objective is unobtainable, like recreating the big bang, it only happens once.

Hey Tom, your point is well taken and I also totally agree. Now if we could all agree on what constitutes accurate sound as opposed to tuning a system to suit our ears. Let's face it, one can never know how accurate a reproduction is unless he/she was present at the recording session. Even then there would be dispute between one listener and another. I'm not so certain that hearing a recording reproduce a 180 degree panorama of sound is accurate but I'd sure bet it is aurally stimulating!

Tom instead of your bits of bites why don't you serve us up a meal. What do you like, what works and why and furthermore, have you heard a Supratek product and if not, nor are interested, why are you driving in this neck of the woods with your nebulous comments? Ok so you've got 30 years and you've listened to a lot of gear and your a dealer and you are presumably here to enlighten us, so enlighen. This is no place for cynics that haven't heard, no one here is interested, no offense but make a point beyond methodogy man.

Steve the Merlots may excel in most areas but it is the area of bass performance, extension AND definition that I would question their mettle compared to the Berning. This amp is in another league with reference to tube amps in that performance area. Imagine an amp that has the bass, airy upper frequency extension along with the harmonic presentation of the best SET's without being euphonic and you would have the perfect amp. If the Merlots do all that I would love to hear them. Haven't heard an SET do it to date. The Berning only falls a bit short in harmonic realism but it sure isn't a slouch in that area either. It is quite amazing especially tweeked out.

Hi Stiltskin

Jim and I haven't done a comparison since Jim seems undecided on the pre-amp but is leaning towards the Joule. He is also considering the Cortese I believe but don't tell him I told ya :^) It will probably be several months down the road if he does order the Joule.

Hi Baranyi

I also have the Berning/Syrah combo with Merlins. I would expect the Berning would work very well with Von Scheikerts so long as the impedance doesn't drop below 4 ohms. Of course there is a feedback adjustment for lower impedances but I find the low feedback setting on the amp preferable. The power especially at 70 watts must be experienced to be appreciated. I've never heard it run out of gas, that is the music never compresses like many tube amps seem to when the going gets tough. It is a great match with the Syrah in that they compliment each other quite well, the liquid transparency of the Syrah with the clear, dynamic unflappable Berning.

I doubt it can be touched for the money Baranyi, it can be safely recommended without worry. I have heard a few other amps in my system and as far as the Berning goes for what it offers you would have to pay considerably more to get comparable performance. I would go even further, I know a few Berning owners that have traded down mega expensive ss amps in favor of the zh270. The Spectron has been mentioned with the Von Scheikerts as a reference but after personally listening to that amp next to the Berning with the VSM (read that cavaet!), it really didn't come close. It sounded compressed and closed in by comparison. The Berning is more than good at the price it is reference caliper amplifier at any price with any amp in its power rating, it just misses in the harmonic presentation of the SET's but nothing is perfect except for maybe TWL's 1 watt ZOTL 45 SET "Holy Grail" the best of all worlds except maybe for the 1 watt, but I can only imagine the perfection of that 1 watt! IMO. May the cannon fire begin.

Ahhh the 6c33 tube, Joule and Tenor also use that tube, very nice. I would love to hear the amp, you've got me very curious Steve, maybe Mick can send me a pair for evaluation? :)

If its cut from the same cloth as the pre-amps it must be quite special.

Baranyi, I would concur with Ecclectique concerning the Berning. So far as purchasing new over the prototype, the concern would be that the prototype may have been sitting in a box for years if you are not purchasing from a user. Be CAREFUL of this. I would be concerned about the capacitors which may or may not be in need of replacement which would then add to the cost of the amp and may not make it worth it over new. If the amp is operational and is guaranteed as part of the sale, this would be an option. The price should be commensurate with these factors.

There really isn't much risk if you have 4.5K to spend. It is a versatile amp that can work with many loads and since the amp is in short supply with a healthy demand, it insures the value will be maintained. It sounds to me that you really need to hear it first before committing. You should probably search out a user in your area. There are few products in this hobby that I feel comfortable recommending. With certain considerations in mind the zh270 is definitely one.

Baranyi yes you will hear much of what the Zh-270 does by listening to the Siegfried but the Sieg is an SET so it is going to probably be a bit more effortless and harmonically complete. You may decide at that point to find a more efficient speaker, then again I don't think David Berning is still making the Seigfried these days, too much work.

Jewel I tend to agree that there is less difference between the 6SN7's and 5881 tubes. I've tried 5 different types of these tubes including National Union, Ken Rad, Sylvania, RCA and the stock tubes. There are differences but they tend to be rather subtle. I find the rectifier the same having tried several of the recommended ones. I am currently using a BEL which is a manufactured in India and was a supplier to among others Mullard.

I agree with Fiddler. Where I have noted the most significant changes and improvements in the Syrah's performance is in the regulator position. The 6L6 type seems to open up the dynamics on the pre to a greater degree than the 5881's, greater plate voltage maybe? And for the most significant improvement to date per Ecclectique (thank you David for this great recommendation) you must try the 6F6g. Relatively cheap NOS, less than 50.00 bought me a pair of Brimars and I was stunned at the enhanced dynamics and the bass, oh the bass. Everyone must try this tube. They are readily available and can be purchased used at considerably less than 50.00 for the pair.

Clipsal you make some interesting observations and I would say that what people hear by swapping tubes must be more system dependent than anything. I wouldn't want to give the impression that different 6SN7 VT231's don't make a difference, they most certainly do but I found the differences subtle relative to each other. The Ken Rads did provide fuller bass but not better and I take issue with the fact I have tried 3 pair and haven't been satisfied, they were all too noisey. I also felt they were a tad too rich in the mids but I suppose I find this more a taste/synergy issue than anything else.

My point is I have heard much more significant differences with tubes in other designs I have owned over the years. This pre-amp is so intrinsically good that so far as the 6SN7 goes I haven't found the variety I've used to make a significant enough difference to rationalize spending the money on some of these tubes. Of all I have tried I prefer on balance the Sylvanias and National Unions with the Ken Rads my least favorite, good ones are hard to come by I suppose.

The regulator tubes I didn't find to alter the tonality so much as enhance dynamics, presence and bass. This may of course be system dependent as well. To me the 6f6g was most significant, a real eye opener. I agree that the stock tubes were not nearly as good as all the tubes I've tried but changing the regulators should provide an interesting result, you should definitely give it a try and tell us what you think.

Hat's off to you Slowhand. If it weren't for this thread I would't own this pre most likely. It has been a very pleasurable ride all the way.

Lisbon, I have an e-mail off to Mick to get the low down on this tube. I'll keep all posted.

Artar 1, by George, I think you've got it!

Hi MRMB

The CAT I owned, still own but it is on extended loan, is an older unit. How the newer units compare with the Supratek Syrah is open to question especially since you have the JL-1 amps. As Ecclectique notes, the Syrah is more transparent and seems more extended along with a sense of undefinable rightness, this is closer to how music sounds. I have also listened extensively to a friends ARC SP-10 Mk 2 in my system and while I feel the Syrah has a much better line stage I have come to the conclusion that the phono stage in both the CAT and ARC is mighty good compared to the Syrah. It should be noted that both the CAT and ARC are well noted for their phono stages and with very good reason. I still have work to do on my analog front end, different ic maybe a Koetsu but it is not where I want it to be. So the final chapter hasn't been written yet. You don't mention a tt so this may not have any importance to you.

I have a Berning zh270 and Bel Canto DAC 1.1 with a JVC 1050 zn as a transport which I have run direct without pre. It is very clean and transparent, not at all harsh but seems to take on a more clinical presentation than with no pre.

With your wonderful system I feel you would benefit by a Supratek but a CAT should also work quite well and I doubt that anyone here can give you a definitive answer. A Supratek would definitely be a great choice if you just need a line stage, you can't go wrong, especially at the price point. If you need a phono stage as well, there are more options and in my opinion the Supratek has serious competition based on my experiences to date. Hope this helps a bit.

Sorlowski its kind of like this, you are going out on this blind date that your buddy's wife set-up for you and she is supposedly the cat's meow you see and you have this great anticipation as you go to her place to pick her up. She keeps you waiting and waiting until your anticipation turns to apprehension and you start getting agitated and questioning how you got talked into this mess in the first place and then......finally she makes her entrance and you are entranced by her, totally completely.

OK I admit I got a bit mellow dramatic on that one but I only used it cause it happened exactly like that, same with the Syrah but much worse and a lot longer. After waiting 7 months after being told it would be 3, I can understand the frustration and aggravation. To add further to the wait, several of the tubes were trashed, the power cable was missing and this by the Custom goons who cut a hole into the package and apparently threw everything back into the box without any type of human courtesay to do the right thing and package it the way they found it. You talk about being pissed off and irate. When I passed this info on to Mick his response was he was going to Fed-x me ANOTHER Syrah to replace my damaged one, immediately. Well the damage wasn't so bad after I cooled off, the lacquor finish was cracked on a couple of the edges but was easily repaired and the chrome was intact. The short side of this sad tale is that when I finally got this pre-amp running (about a week after I received it) all my aggravation and frustration were replaced by an instant smile and joy at the whole affair. No I wasn't happy about the custom a-holes, or the wait but it just didn't matter anymore it was all worth it in the end.

Mick is an optimist, keep that in mind. He sure means to have the pre to you in 3 months but I expect his intentions are a little ahead of the reality of his work load. Don't worry, be happy!

Well it has been awhile since I've posted to this thread so it is probably time to chime in. I still have the same basic system that I had when I purchased the Supratek Syrah in 2003. To be honest, I never had the "urge" or inclination to upgrade in the line simply because I calculated the level of improvement would't add enough for me to pay the difference. I find the Syrah to this day a delight that has continued to provide enjoyment and keep step with my system. I've found other areas in greater need and focused on those, of the significant improvements with lesser outlay. Being an audiophile, in addition to improving my enjoyment of my system I also focus on cost effective improvements. I have used many of the regulator and output tubes with delight at how I can tailor the sound in the system with changes. Of course over time preferences sometimes change. In any event, it is a relatively inexpensive way to realize "changes" without the stress changing out components can bring. I may not speak for everyone with that last comment but I'm sure I speak for many of us. I've gone through periods of boredom with the system but have always found inexpensive (relatively, after all most of us are card carrying audiophiles afterall)changes that eventually renewed my enthusiasm without giving into the temptation to "throw the bums out". After all I wouldn't have lived with this system as long as I have unless there is something intrinsically right if not ever perfect.

The Supratek Syrah a full function preamp at 2.5K new with a superb phono stage realizing use of a low level MC cartridge has been a "Deal of the Decade" if not the Century, at least for me so Slowhand, (Tom) you nailed it for many of us, good call!

Sorlowski, enjoy your new Cortese and keep up posted. I always enjoy reading other's experiences with these great pre-amps from Mick.

I hear you Ralph, whatever "floats" a boat in the scheme of a specific business model. Nick's designs seem ever evolving from one idea to the next. I like that approach, kind of, but the problem is there is no definitive end, just a continuing work in progress ever evolving. I came to this conclusion when i couldn't obtain a schematic in spite of repeated requests. Plenty of passion and value regardless especially for the diy crowd, at least it used to be. Whatever the next iteration of Supratek, Mick has my warmest regard and a sincere hope for future sucess. His passion is unquestioned, at least by me.