Slipknot1,
I never bothered contacting Mick until at least three months. By then, he told me how many units are ahead of my order. Stay busy, time flies. I can assure you that your patience will be rewarded. In my case, I never imagined how much positive impact the Chenin would do in my system. Three weeks and counting I finally experienced the cliche "it gets better after so many hours" on what it really meant. I was a little bit worried at first(see past posts)but Ecclectique and Cello assured me how great the preamp really is.
Hang in there bud, a hand assembled Ferrari needs a lot of time and care to produced. |
Lately (over on Audioasylum) there has been some talk of replacing the stock Supratek potentiometers (Alps) with a stepped attenuator. See URL: http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/101690.htmlI have in the past considered this as a potentially MASSIVE upgrade for the Supratek but was talked out of it by Mick. DACT now has some remote controlled stepped attenuators available and I'm wondering if this might be something worth trying. Has anyone tried this? I don't want to come out and say exactly why this would be a massive improvement - but I will say that if your Supratek has a new working version of the HT-Bypass, and you have an MP3 player (iPod type gizmo) connect it to the standard inputs as well as the HT-Bypass inputs and listen to the difference (massive improvement) bypassing the volume control makes. Of course using the HT-Bypass input on a Supratek bypasses the entire gain stage as well. |
Bwhite, that's a very interesting post.
When I first ordered my preamp I told Mick that I had a DACT attenuator that I purchased for a Foreplay kit that I had never used. I asked him if he would install it when he built my preamp. He said he would but that it would be inferior to the one he built for the Supratek.
As good as the DACT is supposed to be, I was suprised at his answer. Maybe I will try it since I have it. Shouldn't be to hard to implement.
BTW, I went to the DACT website and couldn't find a "remote controlled" DACT. I have a CT1, but I would purchase a remote control if they have one. |
Hi Fiddler - After I made the post I also went to the DACT website and looked for the remote & couldn't find it. I remember seeing this (months ago) for sale on a DACT distributors website as well as on DIYCable.com --- I couldn't find it on DIYcable.com either.
Maybe the motorized remote was discontinued. :( I'll need to look in to this.
If you have the HT-Bypass on your preamp try it with any source which can regulate its own volume and then compare the same source connected through the standard inputs. This will give you some idea of what the volume controls on a Supratek "sound like". |
Just looking..Is the Supratek dual mono? I have performed many mods on my Melos pre-amp over the years..One that was a bigee was installing 2 Noble volume controls removing the mute switch and the tape monitor switch, really a great improvement.Having two independent volume controls and no balance control makes for a huge stage, one that can be tweaked for perfect center fill.Tom |
Well kidz, for the record I have never heard a Supratek product but I would really like to based on what I've read on this thread. Problem is there are no dealers or any other way to audition this product except to buy it factory-direct. Therein lies the rub. If Stereophile or TAS ran rave reviews of Supratek (BTW why don't they?) for months and then identified the manufacturer as one of their "Showcase Dealers" would any of you question their motives? (Like HP and Transparent cables for instance?). Endless testimonials endorsing a decent but insular product are the essence of captive marketing. Who knows how it stacks up? And who would send the thing back to Australia after a thousand posts ensure you have the deal of some century? I have nothing against Supratek or this thread but if you don't see the dynamics of QVC or HSN creeping into Audiogon then I will have no compunctions taking your money here as well. |
Khrys, Would you be willing to pay twice the price (or more) for a Supratek preamp for the luxury of being able to hear it first?
A few weeks ago, Audiogon introduced the "Factory Direct" category and I think that is how Supratek first became involved in "advertising" on Audiogon. *I* can no longer find the "Factory Direct" category on Audiogon so I presume it was deleted for one reason or another and those who paid for the factory direct service were added to the "Showcase Dealer" category instead.
When I look at your system, I have trouble believing you were able to listen to each of your components before buying. *IF* you were able to listen to each component before buying, then I have to question your judgement since the way products sound in dealer showrooms is often far different than how they will sound in your system. *IF* you were able to audition the components at home, then I have to question the break-in factor - how much time did you allow for break-in and how long did you audition each component in your system before making the decision to purchase?
Or.. did you just read a review?
Or.. was it the pretty blue lights? |
After Bwhite's suggestion that a DACT attenuator could possibly improve the Supratek, I decided to install the DACT CT-1 (100K Ohm) attenuator that I originally purchased for my Foreplay preamp kit (never built it).
BTW, my unit came with an Alps Blue 100K pot.
Well, I installed it Monday morning and it took all of 45 minutes. Easiest upgrade I think I have ever done and I am a true neophyte with this stuff!
I will cut to the chase. The improvement is stunning. I won't bore you with a long littany of the usual audiophile verbiage, I will simply say if you don't do this easy mod you will never hear what the Supratek is truly capable of. I was hoping there would be a noticeable improvement, but I was listening to a different preamp after the mod than before the mod.
The stock pot was masking the soul of this preamp and consequently the soul of the music. I sat listening to music this morning that I had heard numerous times before and I simply couldn't believe how much more music was there. Okay, a few worn-out cliches. Much greater transparency, lower noise-floor, the music was much smoother and just seemed to flow. The soundstage was noticeably deeper and a haze seemed to be missing. Really wasn't aware a haze was there until it was gone. Wait to you hear cymbals with the DACT !
Also the tonality was improved with the notes being produced much more solidly. Everything simply seems richer, fuller, more 3D...okay enough already, you get the point.
If you can solder, you can do this mod, it's that easy. It will be the best 150 bucks you ever spent.
BTW, at each step there is a burn in period of the resistor, but things get really, really good within an hour of being on a step. And I assume the DACT may improve even more with time.
Thanks for the suggestion Bwhite !!!! |
Thanks for sharing your experienced Fiddler! Also to Bwhite for the suggestion. I will try it on my preamp after warranty maybe. Anybody knows the warranty for the Supratek? I know that Mick will repair/upgrade Supratek preamps as long as he live but just want to get the info.
I am very happy with my preamp now especially the phono section. I am using the ff. tubes:
Mullard/Amperex 5AR4 Flat Top Metal Base Rectifier
Flip-Flopping b/w GEC KT-66 Regulators or Tungsol 5881's
Tungsol VT-231 Round Plates
Siemens 6922's
Sylvania Gold Brand Gold Pins 6C4's
cheers! |
BTW, I am using the Chenin on my 300B amp. :)! |
Is this the DACT attenuator remote control you were looking for?. Go here:
http://www.bentaudio.com/index2.html
And then in the Bent Audio web hit down left where says :
DACT Attenuator Remote
Cheers |
I have received the Chadonnay this morning from Mick. After the installation done, I found that there is no signal from the left channel outputs.
I have checked incoming signals to the preamp and they all are good. Did I do something wrong?
I would appreciate any help to solve this puzzle.
Thanks in advance. |
Hello,
I have the Chenin. On the problem that you are having, assuming that all inputs are okay(checking the configuration as per reference to the picture in the manual), check the tape monitor switch (OFF position should be towards you). Also, try different input pairs (1,2, or 3) and see if the left channel is always dead. Are the tubes all lit?
Good Luck! |
Why does this thread have so many posts? |
4khe - in addition to the recommendations of amandarae make sure that your balance knob isn't set hard to right. then go swap interconnects between left and right channels. lastly fidget with the interconnect barrels on the input jacks, maybe the rca center pin isn't making a good connections. are you sure the problem is with the inputs and not the outputs? |
It didn't until you posted #1164. |
2 months ago I sent my Syrah back to Mick for an upgrade to Chenin. It is no doubt that there is a hugh improvement on the phono stage but the choice of rectifier is sacrificed. I can no longer using Bendix 6106 or even Mullard GZ32 (background noise was heard). Mick explained that both tubes are not running at the proper operating points. For the Bendix, it has greater voltage drop than the 5AR4, puts out 350V against the 5AR4's 370V. The lower voltage doesn't let the regulator work properly. In other words, the regulator is "starved" with the Bendix. Same situation applies on the GZ32 but the noise is not as serious as the Bendix. The phono stage on Chenin is obiviously more demanding and sensitive than Syrah. Any comment? |
Ecmlee, the Mullard GZ34 or the Philips Miniwatt GZ34 metal base are better rectifiers then the Bendix or the Mullard GZ32 in my opinion, so rectifiers in your upgraded Syrah shouldn´t be a problem.
BTW I didn´t know that´s possible to upgrade the Syrah to the Chenin status. What´s the cost for it? and, is the final result a "real" Chenin?. |
Jazzdude, Amandarae: Thanks very much for the suggestion. Mick gave me some instruction, I found the cause and fixed it: A part got loose and bare wires touched the ground causing short. I glued the part to the frame and the music came up as expected. I will wait patiently for the break in as I learnt from Amandarae. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge. You guys are awesome! |
Ecmlee,
I do not know about the Chenin's phono stage being sensitive compared to the Syrah since I have no experience owning the latter. All I know is that I get better feedback replacing the 6C4 tubes than the 6922's in my phono stage. At present, I am using the Sylvania Gold Brand gold pin 6C4 and very happy with the results. A few post above, I tried several other 6C4's and I can say that I am finding the result consistent with what I posted before. |
Finally got to put the Cabernet in my system tonight. These are my initial impressions. My Cabernet uses the WE 101D. The WE 101D has a UV-4 base that requires different sockets than the TJ 101D (UX-4 base) and the sockets are not easy to come by. For initial listening I took the same tubes I had in my Sauvignon and dropped them into the Cabernet with the addition of the WE 101D. My Sauvignon is the older version without the 12b4a only has about 12db of gain.
Initially when I recieved the Cabernet from Mick the RCA inputs and outputs would not work with my interconnects which have WBT TopLine RCA connectors. To get any sound at all from either channel I had to hold the interconnects in the jacks just so and if I released the IC's the system went quiet. Mick replaced the RCA inputs/outputs and the problem was corrected. I had no such problem with my Sauvignon which uses different RCA jacks.
The Cabernet improves upon the Sauvignon in several areas. The Cabernet seems faster and more intimate. It has even greater heft and slam in the bass department. The tonality is purer across the band and the transparency is improved in the midrange. Otherwise the Cabernet has the same general SupraTek 'signature' sound as the other pramps in the lineup.
When I initially turned on the Cabernet I noticed the slightest hum in my system from the preamp. The hum is extremely low level and not even noticeable from across the room. I mention it only because there is no noise at all with the Sauvignon.
To make an analogy in fine-tuning between the Cabernet and Sauvignon, I liken the Sauvignon to a road rally car and the Cabernet to a GTP endurance racer. This is probably because the Cabernet uses a DHT triode which are normally more sensitive to power supply. So in the Cabernet I think most will find that the selection of regulator and rectifier has even more impact on the sound.
Note that the DHT's tend to be more microphonic than most tubes. More so than say the Sylvania VT-231 and Ken Rad VT-231. In my own system my WE 101D are not noticeably microphonic so don't assume that all 101D will be microphonic.
So far, the Cabernet with the WE 101D is a definite improvement in my system and given my personal tastes. In my journey I have come to the opinion that thare is no such thing as "the finest...", "the best...", etc. Because as components and systems become more resolving, system synergy and personal preferences become an increasing factor. Surely though the Cabernet is worthy of the consideration of anyone exploring possibilities among the finer preamps in the world. |
The results are in. The NEW Moray James power cord is as good as the old one! Moray sent me four prototype power cords to test out on the Supratek (A,B,C and D). - from the four, I finally sellected one which was the best cord yet for the Supratek. Its not a cord which will change the tonal balance of your system. Instead it will give a life and character to your system which once you've heard what it does, is impossible to live without. I am happy to answer any questions you have so feel free to email me if you like... but Moray James is the guy who builds them and sells them - not me. If you are interested, please email Moray at morayj1@juno.com Just let him know its for a Supratek. I think he may have it in him to offer an introductory price (not sure) as well as a 30 return policy. |
Bwhite, Jazzdude, Eccletique, Asa, Tubegroover,
.
Do any of you have a handle on the possible replacement for the pair of 6C45 for the phono section side for the Cortese?
.
My cortese has the 6sn7's in the back, followed by the 6922's moving towards the front and the pair of Russian made ElectroHarmonix 6C45n-E's sitting in the front.
.
I have not been able to find what the equivalent American tubes might be. Any ideas ?
.
Brian - I just emailed James about getting a power cord for my Cortese - thanks for the info and work on this one - I will let you know how it does in my system.
. |
Hi Cello - you're welcome. Regarding your Cortese - I wonder what vintage your Cortese is. You may have to contact Mick for info on those tubes. My Cortese uses the 6688 tube up front followed by the 6922.
Honestly? I haven't experienced too much improvement out of changing the phono tubes. Right now I use Telefunken CCa as the 6922 and Mullard E180F in the 6688 position. I'd say its a little better than stock in terms of clarity but the gains are not as significant as when changing other tubes in this preamp. |
Cello - There is no sub for the 6C45. I think Sovtek and Electroharmonix are the brandname resellers. I don't know who actually manufactures the 6C45 but there could be more than one, since Sovtek and Electroharmonix sell tubes from several manufacturers. By all accounts the 6C45 is a very special tube. BAT and Joule use it, in addition to SupraTek. |
Bwhite,
My Cortese was produced around February of 2003 and I bought it from the original owner in September of 2003. I have been told that the Siemens CCa's are excellent and I am going to get a pair of those to try along with a pair of Cryoed Telefunken ULN 6922's - Thanks again
Jazzdude,
Do you or does anyone else know where to pick up the 6C45's? I am having trouble locating some.
.
Thanks for all of the advice, Larry
. |
Cello
Try these,
http://www.thetubestore.com/sovtekpreamp.html
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/triodeel/6hec69e8.html
http://store.electron-valve.com/so-6c45pi.html |
Hi Larry, I've had a few pair of the very early (and expensive) Siemens CCa's and they were nearly unlistenable in this preamp for whatever reason. I had read numerous posts on how great the Siemens were and boy was I disappointed.
The Telefunken CCa's are a different story very, very good.
IF you buy the Siemens, be sure you can return them if they do not meet your satisfaction. |
Larry, Check here for the 6c45pi: About 2/3 down the page$40 for a matched pair. They call it the Commie equivilent of the WE 437a. Me thinks not, and I'm not going to spend a hundred bucks to find out. Remember, I need 4 in my Syrah. I still feel there is nothing wrong with that tube. After quite a lot of play, I can still find NOTHING wrong with the phono stage! I have a matched quad and a matched pair of NOS 5842's that I have to get rid of because of some bad info about interchangability, so be careful if anyone tells you different. Also, I'll answer you email after I check my calendar. Joe |
Hi Cello. Regarding the 6c45.... I have very little experience with russian tubes other than to say I am not very impressed with most of the ones I have tried whether they are output tubes, input tubes or drivers.As far as the WE 437a being a drop in replacement,sorry I can't help here,I am not so sure without comparing the tube data and curves. However,that said...not all of the russian valves are bad. The miltary version [6n23ev] equivalent of the e88cc/6922 is a very good sounding alternative to nos tubes,it is extremely quiet,very rugged and sounds nothing like the god-awful sounding current sovtek 6922. Bwhite....I am very surprised regarding your observation on the siemen cca relative to the telefunken in the phono of the cortese. I have both the Klimo merlin and the ARC sp-10 preamps that both employ the e88cc/6922 family of tubes. The klimo employs it in its line stage and the sp-10 mk2 throughout. In the sp-10's phono stage,the siemen cca trounces any other equivalent tube on the planet[telies,mullards,amperex's,valvos,or anything else out there for that matter] and it's the same conclusion in the klimo or just about any other application I have employed it in. Both of these preamps are legendary in the high-end industry and are fabulous sounding preamps by anyones standards. Yes... I really like the telefunken sound... but the cca is in another league and I would select any siemen equivalent e88cc,e188cc,7308 over the telie in any of my gear[other than telefunkens own cca version].The sound of a lot of nos tubes can be very system dependent and infact, the telie may be the one that works the best in the phono of the cortese. Most designers today are voicing their equipment with currently made tubes so tube rolling and experimentation is the only way to reach any conclusion. I must say...I am still somewhat perpexed as to the comparison though. |
Ecclectique - well... In the Supratek, the Siemens Gold Pin CCa's were a nightmare. The ones I had (two pair) were purchased from two separate dealers at different times. I had read how "great" they were so.... I paid the bucks and purchased some. They were open sounding that's for sure.. to the extent of being obnoxious - even etchy or bright - downright screachy!
Given the reputation of the Siemens, I suspect its me and not the tubes.. but.. I would never recommend them to anyone. There is also the possibility of these tubes being candidates for counterfeiting due to their very high price.
I forgot all the "claim to fame" and specifications for this particular tube but it took me a long time to hunt them down. The pairs I had were from the early 1960's (1962) and gold pin.
In the Cortese, Telefunken CCa sounds superb - however.. I use Mullard ECC32's in the line stage. That must be considered as a part of the overall sonic signature. The stock Philips JAN tubes sound fine but ultimately do not have the clarity & resolution of the Tele CCa.
As I said earlier, the changes in the Supratek resulting from changes made to phono stage tubes are not exactly as substantial as the improvements acheived through changing the line stage and power supply tubes. But there are improvements none-the-less only here (in the phono stage) you REALLY have to pay for them. |
Hi Everyone
My Chenin should be here on Monday!! I can't wait to see it. I have one novice question. How many rectifier / regulator / power tubes do I need. Two of each? I have been browsing through some of the tube sites, and found GZ34 rectifiers for sale as singles. Do they come matched or unmatched? Do I need 1 or 2? You can tell I don't know what I am doing.
Regards Tim |
1 rectifier, 2 power, 2 line stage. But, don't screw with the tubes until you get about a hundred hours on it. That way, you can try the tubes one at a time after you get it broken in a little. That's the only way you will be able to tell what works for you in your system.
Welcome to the Supratek club! As always, you only need to look through this thread to find the answer to any question you might have. If it's not here, ask and you shall be answered. |
Congratulations Saint! Glad to hear your wait is finally over. The wait is painful but makes the experience somewhat sweeter I suppose.
I am currently waiting for my turntable to be completed and I'm pretty excited about it. Judy Spotheim-Koreneeff sent me photos of it today as she was doing the final testing.
It should look magnificent next to the Supratek. |
Congrats Saint2!
I agree with Jphii, if you can resist swapping tubes until about 100 hours or so it is easier to get a feel of what tubes synergize well with your system. Scrolling a few post above this, you will find my experienced by swapping the tubes to NOS too early (because I am too excited to do so!).
Buckle up! You will be taken for a loooong blissful ride!
Cheers! |
Congratulations Saint,
.
As mentioned previously by Abe, you are in for a great ride.
.
Do be patient and thoroughly break in the stock tubes before playing around with tube rolling. I think you are looking at more like 200 hours to get to the point that they have completely settled in. You will be quite surprised how much the sound improves during break-in. Also try to change out only one position at a time and live with that change for a while. Resist the urge to change several positions quickly. You really want to know what effect and change each tube/position yields.
.
There is also a lot to be said for really getting to know the sound of the unit and the stock tubes before you start creating a new sound.
.
In my system I have found that in the line stage side the Mullard EL 37 - Philips Miniwatt / Mullard GZ 34 Miniwatt and Tungsol Black Glass Round Plate 6sn7 have been magical and well worth extra money.
I have not cranked up the phono stage as of yet so I cannot help much there.
.
Good Luck and enjoy it !
.
Larry
. |
There's a RAVE review of the Chardonnay on 6 moons (the reviewer bought it). As if it wasn't a long wait before. I wonder what the review would have been like if he'd gotten one with a phono stage? |
I have not previously posted to this thread, but I have been following it closely. Based in large part on the insightful posts here, I ordered a Chenin last week. Anyway, I wanted to let everyone know that there was an extremely positive review of the Chardonnay published by 6 Moons in the last couple of days. Here is the link in case you are interested: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/supratek/chardonnay.html |
From the looks of it the Chardonnay looks to be a Syrah minus the phono stage, which was the best part of the Syrah. |
Saint,
How long have you been waiting?
I have sent my downpayment on the beginning of March. |
Sorlowski,
I spoke to Mick last week. He has had some problems gettings supplies from his cabinet maker. I too ordered mine in March. Mick tells me about a month or so longer.
FWIW... |
Hi Sorlowski
I sent my deposit in on the last week of March, just before the price increase. Mick said it would have been done sooner but he got side tracked trying to build a low cost power tube amp to match with the Chenin. Sorlowski yours should have been done by now, I would think. My order was the stock Chenin with no special requests. By the way just to let people know, it was sent out on June 11th, and now it is delayed in Anchorage, Alaska, probably a customs delay. The shipping wait is worse than the assembly wait. Everyday I jump on fedex.com to check the status, and it is still in Alaska. It is an agonizing delay, but at least it is in the U.S.
Regards Tim |
Thank you for your responses I sent downpayment on 9th of March, but my Supratek was very custom one. So I will have to contact Mike and ask at source. :) |
Hi Everyone
I received my Chenin today, and it is AWESOME LOOKING!!! I have one question. It did not come with a power cord. Will any power cord do the job. I was thinking about going to the local Radioshack to get one. Good idea or bad idea?
REgards Tim |
any IEC power cord will do in the short term. i would definately plan on upgrading the power cord in the future. there isn't much need to go hog-wild and get a $2k power cord. |
Any standard power cord with a 15A IEC will work Supratek. Radio Shack sells 'em or you could just power down your computer, unplug it, and use that power cord.
In the long run, you'll want something better. |
Bwhite
.
Brian - I just ordered a Power Cord from Moray James for my Cortese. I should have it in my hands next week.
.
Moray commented that the cord was cryoed (pleasant surprise). How many hours did it take for your cord to fully break in.
.
Thanks for all of your hard work in researching this one. I will let you all know what kind of results I get in my system.
.
Thanks,
Larry
. |
IÂm seeking suggestions about interconnect length.
Having ordered my Chenin a couple of days after Saint2, I'm eagerly preparing to hear from Mick that mine is ready.
Because I ordered the Chenin to re-start spinning vinyl after a long hiatus, I'm contemplating moving my rack from in between my speakers to in front, and to the side of them.
My Interconnect run would double from 3 Meters to 6 Meters. I certainly do NOT have to do this. Consequently, I'm seeking advice before I spend the time and money to do so.
Would I experience a sonic degradation from using a 6-Meter pair of interconnects? Are any others successfully using a run of this length, or longer? Or has it been tried, and for the worse? |
Hi Larry, Congratulations on the Moray James PC. They require a days or two to stabilize after being shipped. But sound very good right out of the bag. Hopefully Moray can get that cable built and out to you quickly. Let us know what you think. |
Larry,
Still have not worked out the trip yet. Hope I can make it. I would have emailed but I wanted to have post number 1200!
Joe |
