Preamp Deal of the Century

Bmotorcycle - Congratulations!

Hi Larry, Looks like I am moving at the end of February. I'll be in temporary / corporate housing until June. Then I will start looking for a house.

The Chardonnay is 13¼" wide by 12½" deep the unit is about 8½" tall. The power supply is the same width and depth but height depends upon the tube you select. With my GZ32, the power supply is about 5½" tall. Stock the unit is about 4½ inches tall.

Shesh.. where have I been?? I guess I missed this thread.

The Supratek is absolutely astonishing! in both sound and visually. I have tried many preamps and the Supratek is both the least expensive and the most outstanding performer I have ever come across.

The sonic character of the Supratek is very difficult to pin-point. Its a very clean sound and very dynamic in that it has more bass than any tube preamp I've ever heard. One day we compared it to a Krell preamp and while the Krell had more bass - we simply couldn't listen to the Krell for very long at all. Vs the Krell, The Supratek really put accuracy into perspective. Someone who only listened to Krell their whole life would immediately realize that the Supratek was not only more natural but less colored, pure as the driven snow, liquid as liquid be, and in all ways utterly magnificent.

I am on my second preamp from Supratek because I asked Mick to customize my first one (made last year). While my first one was okay - it resulted in a few problems as a result of the customization. My new unit which was recently built before the parafeed design is much different - and more inline with what someone would expect from a 15,000 preamp.

I used to tell people that the Supratek Syrah was the best preamp under 15,000 but... then Mick released the Cortese for 5,000.

Mick is very ambitious in the design of the Supratek. He uses all point to point wiring - unsheilded silver wire - & the finest parts available. This combined with the superb circuit design and AWESOME power supply design create a very revealing, powerful and perhaps limitless preamp that will give most anyone more enjoyment than any high end preamp available today.

I had compared the Supratek directly to a Conrad Johnson 16LS preamp and the difference spawned my friend to say - "OH MY GOD". He is a CJ lover and really... really wanted to have a CJ preamp to match his CJ Premier 8A monoblocks. So.. we went out and got an ART preamp to demo... and again, the Supratek was more crystal clear, liquid, better resolving, pristine, musical and simply sumptuous to listen to vs the ART.

The Supratek takes 6SN7 tubes and they can make a huge difference in performance of the preamp. I have tried many. To date, the best have been either Sylvania Metal Base 6SN7W, or Ken Rad Black Glass VT-231. The regulator tubes in back are 5881 - comes stock with Sovtek's but a pair of Tung Sol 5881's will get you in business.

My fingers hurt from typing...

Oh.. to comment on Hindemith's remarks. yes. The Supratek Phono stage is quite likely the best you'll ever hear.

Hey Tom! I told you it was good! So far for my system the Ken Rad Black Glass VT-231's are the ultimate in weight body, and seductive sound. The Sylvania Metal Base 6SN7W's are super good! But... they're hard to find with low microphonics.

The Tung Sol 5881's give a lot of dimension and front to back soundstage layering. Nice effect. Plus they are fractionally more detailed than the Sovteks. But until the TS 5881's are broken in, the Sovteks will sound a bit better.

As for the Mullard 5AR4 - I'm using a GZ32 and I don't know if it's all that much better than the stock Philips rectifier tube.

Grandpad, if there is a problem with your preamp, Mick determines which is easier - sending back or having the preamp fixed locally.

I had some work done to my preamp locally and Mick paid for it. The remote control board was funky and picked up cellular phone calls.

Khaki - how does the Cortese sound? What have you compared it to?

Bradz, the Chardonnay is in a completely different galaxy than any of the preamps you mention. When I first purchased the Supratek, I used it with Solid State (Electrocompaniet) and LAMM M1.1's which have a tube but are not exactly TUBE amps.

The results with Solid State is very similar to the results with Tube amps. I no longer own any Electrocompaniet gear, the LAMMs are gone and I am currently using a McIntosh MC2000 tube amp. In between those I had Chord (solid state), McIntosh MC2102, GRAAF and Cary 805 amps.

A friend of mine has Conrad Johnson Premier 8A's that go with his Supratek.

Hindemith - the only ARC preamp I've spent much time with was a friends LS-25 (I think that's what it was). To me, that ARC preamp sounded sterile and had a very bright solid state quality to it. I am not certain if it was a direct result of it in my friends system context or if the ARC didn't match up very well with his gear but I know of a fact that when he purchased a Supratek, suddenly things got WAY more listenable.

Since this friend also uses Conrad Johnson Premier 8A amps, he really, really wanted a CJ preamp to match his amps. He auditioned a Conrad Johnson 16LS in his system side by side with my Supratek. The CJ initially sounded pretty good (we thought) but once we switched over to the Supratek, it was instantly apparent that the CJ LS16 was a total joke. VEILED, weak sounding, restricted in dynamics, artificial sounding, rolled off in all directions.

So.... he bit the bullet and demo'd a CJ ART - while the ART was better, it still maintained much of the CJ character being a certain artificial sweetness and while it was much better than the LS16, the ART was rolled off too - undynamic and dull when compared to the Supratek.

So.. my friend purchased a Syrah and has been happy ever since.

Hindemith - the Supratek currently represents a tremendous value. I had mine in to be modified by a local guy named Scott Frankland who's fame comes from building the $30+K Wavestream V8 amplifiers - he told me that between the time it would take to build these, plus the parts, Mick is making peanuts on these. I am sure that as word spreads about the Supratek product, they WILL become more expensive - they would have to.

Those of us who know about these today should consider ourselves quite lucky.

Timchen - I will gladly help you. The Supratek website is:
http://www.cantech.net.au/~supra/ or simply click here to go there in another browser window.

Mick responds to emails often - twice a day in some cases.

Timchen, yes the Supratek preamps have two sets of outputs. You can use them for bi-amping or to run to a dedicated subwoofer.

Uh... I ordered my first preamp with a home theater pass through (this was Mick's first attempt at doing this custom option)...Mick didn't quite get it right and as a result, my preamp was a bit flakey - and as I have learned recently, not up to the quality of the "stock" Supratek's.

Mick realized he made a mistake on the Cinema by-pass for my first preamp and made me another one. Again - there were problems with the by-pass. Mick did a completely different design but I haven't quite figured out how to use it - it doesn't work very well at all and honestly causes more problems than it was worth. I disconnected it myself because it was causing a buzzing sound - acting like an antenna. A local amplifier manufacturer is going to fix this for me & Mick has agreed to pay for the expense.

In all honesty - those who order Suprateks will be much better off buying stock units and having the extra stuff put on by someone else. Mick is too busy building these things to be troubled with working out the bugs on a design he has yet to think out completely. This will make itself evident when you receive your "custom" Supratek.

While the Cinema By-Pass feature seems to be very attractive - it truly isn't all that much different than plugging the preamp outputs of your home theater reciever directly into a pair of the Supratek inputs - setting the volume to 12 o'clock and turning the selector knob to the desired input. Use your processor/receiver to adjust the volume.

Rmml - you're welcome. You might talk to Mick about it. He is pretty stubborn and may try to do the Cinema By-Pass anyway. For instance. My first preamp was ordered with XLR outputs & Mick put on the wrong connectors (he put the input side of an XLR on the preamp to be used as outputs). I questioned him about this and he said that is how he always thought they worked.... Then.. for my second preamp, Mick insisted to put XLR's on. I told him NO!!! Not if it was going to be a problem.

The day my second preamp showed up, it had the same type (wrong) XLR connectors on it too.

I was kinda pissed off about that.

What I have learned from my dealings with Mick is that he is very capable designer/builder. His product is world class but when you deviate from the original design, there can be issues. The Cinema By-Pass is something that should be very simple but for whatever reason, I don't think Mick uses Home Theater much and therefore doesn't understand exactly what we're looking for when we ask for that option.

I had sold my EMC-1 MkII a few months before I got the Supratek. From my experience, the two units would work very well together.

Smw30yahoocom - The preamp does not come stock with a remote volume control. But it can be ordered. This is a GOOD OPTION. On my first preamp from Mick, he implemented the remote flawlessly!!! The second time around it had a few issues which turned out to be bad boards.

Mick uses the motorized ALPS potentiometers which run smooth and dead quiet.

A local person is working to get my remote control fixed - he had to order a board from Italy to do it. I will report once the work is done.

The preamp comes in single ended ONLY! However Mick will agree to providing XLR outputs (whether it is truly balanced output I do not know - and doubt it). In my experience, Mick does not know which XLR connectors should be used on the OUTPUT side because in my two preamps (and a friends) Mick used the INPUT side connectors as the output...

In my experience ARC preamps are not the be-all end-all of tube equipment in general - (the amps are better than their preamps though). Their preamps are very thin sounding, sterile and can be down right schreechy!

The Supratek shouldn't even be looked at side by side with ARC gear. Yes - it will work well with your ARC amps (or any amp) but... as for preamps, the Supratek has the correct harmonics, tonal balance, and spatial characteristics that a preamp should have (and ARC lacks).

If you like ARC preamps - no-one is going to be able to tell you what you should or should not do because you have already developed your own bias. But given the price of the Supratek, you could very easily give it a try and see fist hand how this single piece of equipment can open new doors and take your system to an entirely new level of performance.

I don't even want to talk about BAT preamps vs. Supratek.

Rmml, Hopefully by then, I will have had the new remote control installed in my Supratek. Like I said the source of the PC board is a company in Italy - it appears to be the best board available. Once we install and test Mick will find out (since he's paying). I'm sure he will implement the best solution.

If you really want to integrate the Supratek with your home theater, it works well to just run the processor outputs to a set of the Supratek inputs. This is what I have been doing and it works fine. Initially I thought it would be inconvenient but it really doesn't matter since in this configuration the processor is what adjusts the gain - not the Supratek.

Rmml, you're welcome - and CONGRATULATIONS!

The Supratek preamps are pretty light. Therefore isolation with the usual spikes can be pretty difficult, not to mention the tube microphonics and noise you can experience with a light chassis preamp and a pair of old 6SN7's sitting on a hard surface.

What *I* did was buy three black diamond cones with threaded studs. I removed the copper bottom plate and then I drilled three holes - evenly spaced - & bolted on the studs.

I purchased resonance control material called "dynamat" and covered the inside of the copper bottom plate with it. I also added dynamat to various accessible areas on the inside of the preamp. This stuff limits resonance and helps a great deal when fighting tube harmonics.

With all the dynamat inside the preamp, I'd swear it added 10 pounds or so - but I'd be lucky if it was 2 pounds :)

I sit my Supratek (w/black diamond cones) on a rubber thing I purchased at home depot. I found this rubber thing in the plumbing department. I think it is used to make gaskets for pipes or something. It comes in a 12 x 12 size and fits nicely underneath the Supratek and is virtually invisible. This seems to further decrease resonance and drops the microphonics down even further.

The Supratek works fine with inexpensive power cords. I wouldn't go out of my way to put an Electraglide FatMan on it as the best results seem to come from ordinary cords. I am currently using a Bybee MkII power cord with good results. The Bybee seems to quiet things down a bit without making the preamp sound sterile (like with an Elecraglide) or adding colorations - actually I think its a perfect cord for the Supratek.

You might also try something like the Absolute Power Cord which doesn't "do" much - or Mark Bucksath (the outstanding Ultimate Audio reviewer who got the first glimpse of the Supratek) seems to have had good results with a Discovery power cord.

That's it!! I think I am going to upgrade to the Cortese! The Chardonnay is so darn good that I must know what the Cortese is capable of!! So if anyone is interested in buying a Chardonnay (black with chrome) let me know and we can work somthing out... No rush because Mick has a long backlog. :(

Jeff is absolutely right! The Supratek (if too many options are added) can be a dog. While the circuit Mick designed is relatively simple, additions like "theater throughput", single box chassis, XLR outputs, remote control, etc. In the early XLR equipped units, Mick used the wrong connectors - and added some kind of transformer which was supposed to boost the XLR output and at the same time lowering gain to accomodate what he thought was the "right" way to do theater throughput. The results were not exactly great. I think Mick has resolved some of the issues but I expect that the more you add to the original specification the more potential you have for problems.

Also, Mick builds all the preamps by hand and as fast as possible which has at times resulted in paint drips, loose/cold solder joints, etc. Much of this trouble happened in a time when Mick was turning orders around in 2 weeks - today Mick has upped the turn around time and I think it's now 3 months.

He has a great product and I hope his current business plan includes much better quality control. Again, I want to reinforce Jeff's comments above. Do some research and talk to Mick about it before you order - or while waiting... :)

Arooj, You weren't kidding!!! Mick has a few surprises for later this year!!
http://www.cantech.net.au/~supra/highpower.html

I wonder what the ticket price will be?

Fist of all, buying a Supratek is not like buying a product from a "big name" manufacturer where you can expect that every unit produced will be identical and in most respects "flawless" visually. Mick builds each item individually and therefore each of his creations is in some ways unique. Things like sloppy paint jobs (a couple drips) on the piano black finish - or blotches in the varnish have been in my experience, standard equipment. Miscellaneous problems with wiring and solering can also be a part of the product you receive. Chips in the paint from a rough delivery are likely as well.

Mick being a "One Man Shop" is really no excuse for these issues. If anything, his quality should be BETTER as a result. NOT worse!!

Keep in mind that since I received my second preamp, Mick made a lot of changes in the ways he does things. Mick will pay for the repair of your preamps if they are not electrically sound but I don't know what he does if the finish is not up to your expectations. Just know that even with paint drips and smudges, the Supratek is still one of the prettiest preamps available in the world today.

Also, Mick resides in a highly unpopulated area in Western Australia which has nearly no RFI/EMI. When your Supratek with its unsheilded wire arrives in a big US city you may experience buzzing. Your Supratek will not be as quiet when idle as any mainstream electronic gear. This is not the Supratek's strong point. Between it and the NOS tubes you're likely to use with it, you must expect at the very least some microphonics and tube "hiss".

Adding any aftermarket options will cause problems for Mick. He has no way of testing some of the crazy things we consumers come up with but will most likely attempt to do them for you as a service - because he isn't making much money on each unit and needs the business!

Oh.. ya... sorry I was unclear, it will connect perfectly with the RCA cables. It's the two source signals per channel in each XLR cable (balanced) that the Supratek circuit isn't designed for.

Tubegroover - in the off chance that you have internal quality problems with the unit, it can easily be fixed by anyone with electronics and soldering experience. In fact, I think my preamp is much better after going to a repair shop. The Engineer (Scott Frankland of Wavestream Kinetics) who worked on my preamp made some very good modifications to my preamp which were simple but effective.

Thinks like separating the internal wires better, sheilding a few of the non-critial wires, putting the unit on a scope and fine tuning the Left and Right gain, etc really made a BIG difference in overall performance. Having Scott look at my preamp and do the fine tuning cost a whopping $50 bucks but the return was outstanding. I would recommend owners of Supratek products take them to someone who has built amps/preamps professionally to learn if there are any quick and dirty ways to improve the performance.

I think Mick's recent "extended" schedule for delivery represents his commitment to increasing the quality of his products. When I ordered the preamp, Mick was turning these out in less than 2 weeks. That has changed signifcantly of late and I expect his more current products are higher in initial quality as a result.

Arooj - Scott has talked to Mick and plans to provide service to Supratek owners in the California Bay Area (near San Francisco). I believe Mick has other recommended service agents elsewhere in the US.

When I engaged Scott he immediately agreed to do the work for the Supratek - no problem. My guess is that you will easily find several people in the US who can do such work.

I had my remote "fixed" finally and it unfortunately makes some noise. Even when other remotes are used in the same room, the new Supratek remote chats. Perhaps its the board or the way the remote was implemented by the repair guy that causes the noise - I don't know. Regardless of the little noise, I am happy. At least I don't have to get up and walk across the room every time my wife gets on the phone!! :)

I asked Mick to do that upgrade for me on my first preamp and unfortunately he said he couldn't. If the signal from your CDP is truly balanced, the Supratek cannot handle it - for whatever reason.

What do you guys thik of something like this? A multi-channel Supratek (with phono).

Hi Jewel - I used Adobe Photoshop to sketch the image. :)

Sorry you guys haven't received the Supratek's yet...

I know of someone who is selling a Cortese - I don't know the details of the unit other than the fact that its new - just received at the end of May. The current owner has had some health problems recently and its put a significant financial burden upon him, which is why he must sell. If anyone is interested in the Cortese, please let me know - I can put you in contact with the seller. It might be a fast way to get a "new" unit.

Mick! Great the see you on the board. Thanks for the update and explaination. I will again attest to Mick's firm commitment to his customers. He does a great job!

Hey! I've been on vacation from audio for a while since I am in the process of losing my job. I've been focusing on finding another job instead of spending time here - sorry.

Its fantastic to return to the boards and learn that many of you will be receiving your preamps soon! I certainly hope you love 'em!

Asa - Mine is still sounding great however its a pain in the butt to find good NOS tubes. The KenRad Black Glass VT-231's are great and so are the similar (but NOT the same sounding) Black Glass 6SN7GT's. Unfortunately they tend to be noisy - and the Supratek is very sensitive to bad tubes.

Also - the power supply is quite sensitive to where it is placed. There is an audible difference between placing the power supply on various surfaces. I get the best sound from mine with all the feet removed and placing the unit on a MDF shelf. Too hard of a surface doesn't seem to sound too good and too soft is lousy! Black Diamond #3 cones are too soft for the power supply but work well on the preamp itself. I was hoping to get #4 cones to test out but... my company took a nose dive.

Additional improvements came from adding dampening material (Dynamat) inside the preamp on the chassis and on the inside of the bottom plate. This helps reduce microphonics and vibrations in the preamp.

Also a little mass increased the performance of my preamp. I filled double plastic bags with some "special" sand and placed them inside the two domes in the back. These domes used to contain transformers but now only contain AIR... They are only for looks. The sand actually decreased the vibration sensitivity even further and made the preamp sound a bit better.

Hi Asa, The "older" versions - like yours - actually did have transformers (or something) in the rear domes. The newer Suprateks do not. The new Suprateks are feather-weights and seem to respond well to the added mass.

For example - without the dampening material in my preamp, even a light touch on the top of the metal chassis would cause an audible effect. It sounds much like a single piano note. NOS tubes further increase the problem....

The increass in mass stops this from happening.

The added dampening material does not effect the sound other than making it quieter.

Removing the four plastic feet on the power supply and resing it on the frame seems to be the best so far on all Suprateks I've come across. Vibrapods are way too soft. Placing it on anything softer than MDF sounds sloppy. Anthing harder (for example granite) - can sound shrill (with the feet removed). If the PS had to be placed on a hard surface, the vibrapods would help.

I also added Bybee devices to the AC input and post rectification stage in the power supply which initially added dark flavor but after break-in sound quite nice vs. without.

The Suprateks sound good when they are brand new but do in-fact get better over the first month or so. Also, the stock Zenith 6SN7 tubes Mick uses in the pre are not all that fantastic. NOS tubes make a significant improvement.

Outlier - preamps seem to be more sensitive to tube quality than amplifiers. A tube which sounds perfect in an amp can squeak and be rather noisy in a preamp. Be aware of this when shopping. Ask the seller if they honor an exchange or refund if the tubes you buy are too noisy for the Supratek.

I've tried many 6SN7's and clearly the best are either the Ken Rad black glass or the Sylvania 6SN7w's (metal base).

The RCA 5692 red base tubes you speak of are just okay. Tung Sol Round plates are pretty good. Raytheon VT231's are alright. Brimars are too detailed but may work in some situations. A tube I haven't tried is the Mullard CV181 - which isn't a "true" 6SN7 but should work.

In your tube quest you might try looking/shopping for 6SN7GTB tubes. They are new(er) cost MUCH less and there are quite a few different brands available. So far, I've picked up some National's and a pair of Canadian made GE 6SN7GTB's which were pretty darn good. There is no doubt that the character of the older NOS tubes is superior to the 6SN7GTB's I've tried but the GTB's are WAY quieter, less microphonic and super cheap (can usually be purchased for 10 or 15 bucks a pair).

hope this helps.

Hi Jewel - the shipping usually takes three or four days. I live in California (Silicon Valley - near San Francisco). The preamp arrived in the US at a port in Los Angeles CA via FedEx, then was shipped to Tennessee and then back to California from there. Strange process.

FedEx will invoice you a few weeks later for the 130 in duties.

Jewel - First, is your Chardonnay stock or did you order yours with XLR outputs?

If it has XLR outputs, check the switch on the back between the RCA output and the XLR output, Make sure it points to the output you are using and not in the middle. Yes.. Mick uses a 3 way switch to do a 2 way job.

This may sound silly but make sure the selector knob is switched to the correct input. They are not marked but usually the lowest position on the knob (to the left) is the first input on the preamp.

Then.. you will want to ensure the gain switch is engaged so it best matches your system.

Also, the tape loop switch should be in the center

If you need help. Email me your number. I would be happy to assist. If I can.

Hi Jewel, got your message yesterday. Sorry I was out of town visiting my sister. Glad to learn you've resolved the problem(s) and your preamp is working.

As for the gain, I agree the HIGH gain setting is very sensitive and actually quite difficult to use in most cases. The LOW gain setting works much better for most applications - but can still be rather high compared to other preamps.

Let us know how things progress.

Talk to us Warren.... :) What's going on?

Snook2 - Mick is a one man show. He does not have a US distributor or dealer. He does however have technicians in certain areas of the US who are familiar with the units and can perform repairs when need be. Mick likes to fix the preamps himself when the cost to repair in the US is greater than the cost of shipping round trip to Australia.

A friend of mine sent his preamp back to Mick for an upgrade - It took a total of 10 days for the repair and shipping both ways. That is pretty good service. Not many big name manufacturers with dealers and distributors can match that.

I really have to hand it to Mick for consistently providing the highest level of customer service and support!

Snook - you bring up a good point about the way Mick runs his business - it could be run in a more mainstream, bureaucratic fashon (with dealers/distributors, etc) but if he did, you could quite possibly be looking at a price tag of $5,000 for a Syrah and $10,000 for a Cortese. It costs money to support dealers and consumers pay that cost.

The way I see it, Mick provides fantastic service and has priced his equipment as low as possible - creating a situation where YOU as the consumer can really win big!

Rmml - that's great! How does it sound??

I like the effects of the Dynamat and BDR stuff on my preamp however - I have noticed that too much BDR can be too much. The MkIV cones are certainly better for the Supratek than the MkIII. However, I am currently trying variations i.e. Two MkIV and a single MkIII on the preamp.

I find that too much MkIII can bbbbllluuuurrr things a bit in the mids.

Also in my system, adding Dynamat to the power supply is not an improvement. Neither are the BDR's of any type. The power supply sounds the best with the rubber/plastic feet removed, and resting on nothing but three tiny felt pads stuck to the underside of the frame (the wood part).

Also, I've found nothing better as a platform for the power supply than MDF (particle board). Sitting the power supply on carpet or even a super hard surface like granite made things mushy. For me, the MDF is the best.

I do have two Bybee filters in my power supply which may be removed soon. I recently tried power supply without the Bybees against mine and preferred the one without as it was more lively and extended.

I tripple bagged some "special" sand as I mentioned before and put it inside the "domes" on top of the Supratek. The SPECIAL-ness of the sand basically is nothing too special except I spent the good part of an hour combing out all iron from the sand with a magnet. The Iron has a ferroresonant effect on electronics and compresses the sound a bit. The sand (without the iron) adds mass to the Supratek and I believe it further enhances the sonics.

A quick note on the Bybee filters in the power supply.
This evening I auditioned my Supratek power supply against a friends side by side, on his Syrah. We both found mine to be compressed sounding and rather lifeless.

This is most likely a result of the two Bybee filters I have in the power supply. So.. since my friend is handy with a soldering iron, we removed to Bybee devices and discovered that my power supply sounded better than his! Ha! :)

His is new so its most likely still breaking in.

If any of you are considering the Bybee's - you might want to pass on the idea. From my findings, they certainly do not enhance Mick's design.

Hi Rmml - ya I used 3 zip lock freezer bags sealed with electrical tape and separated from the preamp by a gasket inside of each dome to contain the sand... I might re-think that tweak too.

Since I've had the sand filled domes for a while, I plan to remove them soon (maybe today) and test without the sand to see if it really makes as much of a difference as I originally thought. I'll let you know.

Ha! That's funny. You're right - I have taken this pretty far. The Supratek is so good stock but I thought that maybe, just maybe some of these tweaks would make it even better. So far, the Dynamat seems to help but the sand and zip lock bags are a little goofy. :)

Congratulations Rockhead! So? What's the verdict?