Amandarae,
I ordered the upgraded High Black gloss finish for the Chenin. This otta be really pretty......But I have to admit that when I heard the Hovland and saw in in real life, I feel in love with it....but after reading this thread and recommendations of my audiogon consultant friends, they all told me to go with the Supratek.....and that the Chenin sounded way better in their systems.
I'll let you all know how it goes when my Chenin gets here..:-)
Long
p.s. I lied, I didn't really read all of this thread, it is way too long..:-).... |
Ecmlee,
Yep! I too have the same "noise" when switching to a Bendix 61006 tube. As for a different tube rather than a 5AR4/GZ34, have you tried RCA 5V4GA? I found this tube "pleasing to the ear" as well when use as rectifier comparing them to my Mullard Metal Base 5AR4.
Just a suggestion. |
Just a short comment on the Chenin... I ordered my Chenin in piano black and chrome...Absolutely gorgeous...I have not spent a lot of time with it yet...very busy...Having logged 200 + hours using a vintage Fisher FM 100-B tuner for most of the burn in.I have just begun to swap tubes with n.o.s...One thing for sure that stands out with the Chenin is how unforgiving and revealing it is with what is plugged into it, along with the quality of recordings flowing through it...I like that... This has narrowed my search for a new system,goes something like this...Dynaudio special 25s or Gilmore audio #4,heard the model 2s...God save us...Atmasphere m-60s monos,for sure,VPI Scoutmaster with options,cables ect,hmm Anyway,I started to read preamp deal of the century around #200.It took a while to convince me...Its for real... |
5AR4 rolling.
I have had a Cortese for about 5 months now and needless to say I think it is wonderful.
Two day?s ago the power supply rectifier tube failed (5AR4), well it took me 2 days to get hold of a replacement and yesterday it arrived. What a change, a slight mains frequency hum I had has now reduced by half but more importantly records sound much better. I can only describe it as a blacker background.
I have already tried rolling the 6922 and 6SN7 but the effect of replacing this rectifier tube was more profound.
What experience does anyone else have of changing this tube.
Roy |
Don't get the enthusiasm over this thread. Speakers are the most important factor in the electronics chain. Yet people seem to love their preamp's the most...then amp's it seems....then speakers.
Hummmm...maybe I should go buy 5 or 7 preamps and place em all around the room for a killer multi channel music system. Cool |
Roy,
Agree totally! Have you tried 5V4G yet? Different flavor IMHO. Also, have you tried rolling the regulator tubes (I tried Tungsol 5881, GEC KT-66 Clear and smoked bottle, metal Kenrad 6F6G with good results).
Exertfluffer,
Does anybody here posted that preamp is the most important factor on the chain? Who? Where? If so, It's his/her choice isn't it?
If you do not get the "enthusiasm" on this thread per se, why bother participating in the first place?
What's the matter, did someone offended you here?
I cannot understand why you have to comment like that on something that people enjoy.
Go ahead and buy those additional preamps (7 isn't it?). At least it is your decision and if it makes you happy, then good for you and nothing else matters! |
I agree with you. I am even more enthusiastic about my Soundlab speakers.
Roy |
Hello,
Thanks for the recommendations,
A friend emailed me a couple of days ago and recommended a Mullard GZ34 as a rectifier.
I have one on its way to me now.
I will certainly look out for the tubes you have recommended.
Roy
. |
+
Amadarae?...SHHHHHUT UUUUUUUP!!!!!! (lol)
Actually, I don't get your over commenting on my simple response of "don't understand the enthusiasm"(like, what, 1200 plus responses!?!)! Actually, if anything, I thought my response would help wake up audioenthusiest to the idea that more of the secret to great sound lies in the speakers, not the preamp...which is the truth, for certain.
And yes, the preamp is VERY IMPORTANT...just not near so as the speakers, 'case anyone is wondering.
Basically I'm just amazed at, yes, how many people are crazy about their preamp's, and how few are really struck with THEIR SPEAKERS!!!!
I mean, there's nothing wrong with commenting on anything. But it seems if you put a thread entitled "speaker deal of the century", you'd get like maybe a hundred or two responses!!!! Doesn't that stike anyone as weird?
Again, this strikes me as strange because SEASONED AUDIPHILE EXPERTS have been writing for years that the SPEAKERS are the most important part of the electronics chain. Yet people like their other gear most! (which reinforces why so many people start threads like..."I got the Denon 3805 finally, NOW WHAT SPEAKERS DO i CHOSE???!!!!)
It's just no wonder to me that people's systems sound the way they do so often!!!
Once I was at a local hifi club/get-together, and the guy running the deal was a small custom audio video dealer. He had his big setup in the main room running this very very good quality electronics on some Focal speakers that were sipmly "mediocre" at best. Everyone kept commenting that his speakers where really holding his system back. Same holds true for most posting here, I garantee it!
No big deal, just another perspective on this obiously exhausted thread.
But it's all good...don't get me wrong.
Still, I bet you my response is a bagillion times more informative and thought provoking than yours!!!!! Thanks for your thoughts dude. |
Amandarae: Nice try! Chiding a toddler's disruptive behavior without consequences, begets more of the same. The emotional age of some is unknown, so simple chiding is impossible, and results in more of the same. Why? Because they can!
Yep, speakers are the most important component! I just can't understand why my Pioneer Receiver ain't making my Soundlab's sing.
An "S" word might be the most important component of a rig, but it's not speaker -- try synergy.
Every parade is subject to rain; however, a drop or two doesn't require an umbrella. The over all tone of this thread has been more than positive, with nary more than a couple of drops.
May the never ending thread continue unabated .. |
What I'm looking for is a Supratek preamp WITH REMOTE. Does NOT need phono (i'm not into vinyl, please don't attack me for that comment...).
So, preferably a Chardonnay or something. Hopefully with the Stainless Steel finish. Also like the piano black base with SS finish.
I am looking to spend no more than $2,000 USD shipped to my door in suburbs of Chicago.
If anyone has any leads/suggestions, feel free to email me: gajazi(at)shorr.com
Great thread, gang...
-George Ajazi |
Ah yes "Mrmb", touche!
I'm so glad you decided that I was indeed droping rain on your parade. Again, if this is a "parade of a thread", then please, march on with your parade!
lONG LIVE THE PREAMP!!...yeah!...hip hip hurrah!...not a problem. Infact, I'm more than happy you guy's really get into your preamps, really!
I wasn't poo-pooing your enthusiasm. Nor was I trying to make anyone feel bad about their gear, hobby, whatever. I was (It's my issue, I conceed) mearly in awe of how much people like their preamp's. Me, I like the meat of the issue, the quality of sound.
Oh and, Mrmb?...there was recently a show where the Wilson Sofia's were run by a sony receiver!....yep, a Sony receiver. And yes, indeed, the speakers would sound much better with better gear. The point was that the speakers were much more important to the sound than the speakers!
Anyway, if Basketball can have Denis Rodman, Tennis have John Macenroe(?), Golf have Colin Montgomery, and Poker have Phil Helmuth Jr, then you guy's can have me!!!!!...
...Im a legend in my own mind you know...but I'm good at audio/video. My systems speak for themselves.
Yep, I'm good!...It's good to be me and know all things related to audio/video....ahhhhhhhhhhhh. I'm good, Im good!!!(LOL) |
I have a question for those of you still awaiting the arrival of your preamps from Mick. I sent him a note at the end of May checking on the status of my order. At that time he said he was experiencing delays in getting the cases from the woodworker and it would be 2-4 weeks longer. Last night (Aug.22) I sent him another note of inquiry. He is still having trouble getting the cases and expects to ship a bunch of units in the next 3-4 weeks. Are you all hearing this as well? |
Yes, I got the same response as well and I'm sympathetic. I suggest we all not bug him too much while he resolves his issues with his suppliers - none of this is his fault... |
If your preamp is non-standard then the case has to be special made and takes longer to fill the order. Happened with both my preamps. |
Nickatkins,
I agree. We shouldn't bug him. He is trying to get them out as fast as he can. He told me last night he hopes to be able to ship a bunch of them within the next 3-4 weeks. So, lots of us my be getting them soon. |
The strange thing is that I think the wood cases go on the preamp chassis BEFORE the preamp is built. In my experience, it would be insanely difficult to put the case on after the internals are wired up or remove the case once the preamp is built. |
bwhite - you're right of course. I don't have an idea how long it takes Mick to actually make one stock Chenin from start to finish given he has all the parts to hand - I'd imagine not that long after all these years doing it. I expect he has help these days too - would make sense.
btw, I wonder if someone at Audiogon would care to archive the first 1000 posts of this thread? Takes a while to load in my browser each time I read it... |
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Has anyone bought a Grange model in the last 3 - 6 months ?
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I would appreciate any info on their appreciation on the differences between the sound on a Grange as compared with a Cortese.
. |
What would be the bigger upgrade... Upgrading the stock tubes on my Syrah to ??? or upgrading my Denon 103 to a 103R ??
Thanks!
Todd |
Emm labs DCC2 DAC of the Century vs Preamp Deal of the Century?...
Have anyone tried the Emm Labs DCC2 with and without the Supratek?...Does the DCC2 sound better direct or via the Preamp of the Century?....
Alot of audiogoner thinks that the DCC2 is the real deal...but will the Preamp deal of the Century makes it sound better...?..
I have not heard the DCC2 yet, nor have I heard the Supratek. I hope my Supratek will be done soon..:-).. |
Cello - Don't the Grange and Cortese have the same phono stage? Ask Mick to be sure. I think the difference between the two is the linestage portion. |
Has anyone tried Phillips "miniwatt" 6sn7GTB's in your Supratek? Also have any of you tried Phillips KT66's in the regulator position. I know the Genelex is supposed to be the best KT66, but I was wondering what the phillips might sound like. |
Hi Slowhand. Yes... I have used it and would say it is a decent tube, but to be candid here.... certainly nothing to write home about. The best GTB tube I have used in the syrah is the GE 6sn7gtb sidegetter. They are very plentiful,inexpensive[relatively speaking here] and come in both brown base and blackbase versions. They really are a honey of a tube in the Syrah, very well balanced tonally with a very solid bass punch. Perhaps a little on the sweeter side of neutral.... however, bang for the buck... ya can't beat em! They can be sourced just about anywhere for not much more than the price of a new pair of sovtek or the Chinese equivalents. |
Ecclectique,
How does the GE 6sn7GTA compare to the GTB in sound? I have a guy that is putting together a pair of each for me. Would the GTA's be worth getting, or should I just stick with the GTB's? |
Hi Slowhand. To the best of my knowledge, they are exactly the same tube. Every one of my examples[more than 50] seem to be identical in every way.... from the plates,to the micas and the side getters. I honestly believe they are all the same tubes regardless of whether they were labelled gta's or gtb's. General Electric made tons off these tubes over the years and many were relabelled for other companies such as Emerson, Philco,Raytheon, Westinghouse, Silverton etc. The 6sn7 octal was probably the largest single production tube ever made. |
Hi Gang.I am curious. Has anyone here ordered the cortese with the 6j5 tube option? The 6j5 triode tube is basically 1/2 of a 6sn7 dual triode. The current market value of the 6j5 family and equivalent substitutions are very attractive when compared to the better nos 6sn7's. I think Mick used a pair for each channel for full gain in the line stage. What I find attractive with this toplogy is: it allows one the option of using just a single 6j5/channel for those with highly efficient speakers,or amplifiers with high sensitivity, or using two of these for higher gain without the switch in the circuit. Supratek preamps that employ the 6sn7 dual triode like my syrah, also utilize a gain switch for each channel to allow for this.I also noticed that the new Supratek Grange preamp also employs the single triode 6j5 as well as the currently produced clone of the rare Western Electric 101D balloon type directly heated triode in the line stage. There are probably more 6sn7's available to us for voicing the syrah or cortese, however.... the 6sn7 preferences in my syrah.....the tungsol round,kenrad blackglass, and the sylvania wgt metal are all obsenely expensive to acquire today and seem to be getting more so all the time. It seems that Mick has accumulated a supply of the nos 1947 vintage 6j5g and he is supplying that tube with the Grange. Any thoughts here? |
Ecclectique - The 6J5 may cost less and may even sound better than the 6SN7. But it is not as plentiful. When I ordered my Cabernet I asked Mick to wire it for the 6SN7 instead of the 6J5 because I already had a large number of 6SN7. |
Hi Jazzdude. I too have a ton of nos 6sn7's and was seriously considering converting my new cortese to accommodate the 6sn7 mainly because I wanted to compare it to my Syrah. Now... I am not so sure. Before I do so,I am going to try a bunch of nos 6j5's and equivalents. I am very impressed with the old 6j5 shoulder shaped glass bottles in the cortese. Unlike the 6sn7,there are many substitutes and electrical equivalents of the 6j5 that can be used to voice the cortese and they are certainly a hell of a lot cheaper to acquire than any of the better sounding 6sn7's. |
I recently purchased a used Cortese and I would like to try some other tubes and I would appreciated some recommendations. In the main unit I have 6SN7GTB TUNG-SOL and Tung Sol electric pearl 12B4A ,then moving toward the front Philips 6922,then move to the front are 6C45N 8711 and I can't read a name on the tubes. In the power supply I have SOVTEK 5881/6L6WCG and in between that I have a Mullard GZ33 .What tubes can I replace and what should I purchase ?
Which tubes are for the phono stage ?
I have Wavelength 300b amps with WE300b's or KR300b's and Cain&Cain Single Horn Bens Speakers.
In a few months I will purchase a Bix Turntable and I could also use suggestions for a cartridge that will match the Cortese .
Thank You
Bill |
Hey guys,
What do you use to clean the chrome on your preamps? |
Try Brasso, it's readily available. Or, the absolute best polish for metal or any finish for that matter is made by Rolite. The type AP-300 Aircraft Aluminum Polish is unbelievable! The trouble is it is very hard to find, and hideously expensive. The bright side (no pun) is that one container will last you a lifetime, at least until you figure out that it works on cars, boats, motorcycles, etc....
I use it on all of the above, plus any metal that I want to shine. They make a polish & sealant that nees to be used after it on paint, plexi, or acrylic, and you have to use this to seal the finish! Very important, but only for paint & plastics. The metal finishes in the house should never need it.
Now, not affiliated, just like it. |
Brasso is a bit strong and might smear the chrome finish with prolonged use??
I use Goddards long term silver polishing cloth, gentle enough for expensive jewelery so it should be gentle enough for my black and chrome Cabernet preamp, which incidently, looks like 'audio jewelery' to me !
Regards,
Steve M. |
Hi guys,
I'm considering getting a Chardonney - no plans to play LDs. Would Chardonney be a good match for a Perreaux EP-220 (220W SS amp) and Mirage M7-si speakers? |
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I just dropped a pair of WE 350B's into my Cortese about 3 weeks ago and am more than thrilled with the fantastic results. They continue to improve (did not think that to be possible) as they break in.
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I thought I had gotten as far as possible with improving the sound of my Cortese by tube rolling andwas quite happy, but I kept reading and re-reading all of the talk about how great and how expensive the 350's are. Finally, I found a pair of 350's on ebay at a relatively good price (still a killer), but it has been well worth the money spent.
.
I replaced a pair of NOS Philips 1963 Miniwatt / Mullard EL37’s with the WE 350B’s and the improvement was startling. The EL37’s had produced wonderful sound and I was quite content, but you know, the disease got me and I popped for the 350’s – great move.
.
I would highly recommend the EL 37’s for the regulator position, but if you are in a position to pick up a good pair of WE 350B’s, do it.
.
Given that the 350’s should last longer at the regulator position longer than I will on the planet, this should turn out to be one of my better aggressive decisions.
.
I am thinking I can sell them to Bryan White in about 20 years and make a tidy profit.
. |
Hi Cello - Hopefully I'll be around to buy them from you.
Just curious, what rectifier tube are you using with the 350B's?
I'm still stuck on the Bendix 6106 - it was weird sounding and almost nauseating when I first started using it but after a few months of break in, became unbeatable.
Anyone know of a source for fat base Mullard GZ34's? |
Hi Bryan,
.
I am using a 5AR4 Philips Miniwatt Holland Metal Base NOS 1957 (same as Mullard GZ34)
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I got my Mullard EL 37's and GZ34's from Brendan Biever email him at tekman@tubeworld.com or check out his website http://www.tubeworld.com.
.
Brendan's not cheap, but he has a great selection of high quality tubes and is quite honest.
.
I have bought from him 4 or 5 times and been more than happy each time. He is also a good source for 6922 and it's variants.
.
You can call or email me directly if I can be of any help.
.
Good Luck and let us know how you make out.
.
All the best, - Larry |
Congrats, Cello. I have been running 350B's in my Supratek for a long time and nothing else has the magic the 350B's do. Sure they are expensive, but as you say, they should outlast everything else by two or three times or more. |
Cello - Thanks for the info. I've purchased many tubes from Brendan - including the Bendix I use now. I'll give the Mullard metal base GZ34 another try with the 350B's as soon as I can find one. Unfortunately, last time the metal base GZ34 didn't do it for me. I presume that some of these NOS tubes are actually NOS (believe it or not) and they need break-in just like everything else. The change to the Bendix over break-in was dramatic. Maybe my old GZ34 metal base was still trying to break in when I wrote it off. Hmmm.... |
Hi Gang. Yeah, the WE 350b's are certainly "crazy money" for use as regulatory duty... however... nothing else even comes close in my rig. Hey Bryan...glad to hear you gave the bendix the run-in time it requires, it is imperative with most any new tube, and even more so with full wave restifiers. One more extremely important parameter regarding full wave rectifiers... is that each side of rectifier must test indentical to the other side { or no less than 2 or 3% of each other} and at least 95% of a new one. I consider the bendix 6106 as the best of the bunch in both the Syrah and the cortese in my rig with the gz34 coming a close second. Cheers Gang |
Ecclectique - to break in the Bendix, I ran my Cortese power supply 24/7 for about a month without turning it off except to re-connect the Preamp for listening sessions.
At first the Bendix seemed almost out of phase and disorienting. I hated that tube. But.... once broken in its pretty amazing. I need to pick up a few more.
The only nit about the Bendix is how long it takes to heat up. |
I have just ordered the Chardonnay and was wondering if it requires a burn in period or would it be good straight of the bat.
Also in the earlier threads there is a lot of talk about the Ken Rad, Sylvania and Tung Sol VT-231 etc.
The more recent threads talk more of the GE 6SN7GTB
What do you guys recommend now.
Thanks,Jay |
.
Yes, any of the Supratek pre-amps will get much better with several hours of break in. The tubes themselves also need break-in.
.
You will probably hear improvements from 100-200 hours of use. Easiest method would be to run your CD player 24/7 on repeat at low volume for a week.
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The best 6SN7's for my system by far have clearly been the NOS Tungsol, Black Glass, Round Plates.
.
Do let the Supratek fully break in and do about a month's worth of listening before you start rolling tubes. You will learn a ton this way and end up enjoying the process a great deal more.
.
Congratulations on a great decision - you will just love the Supratek.
.
Rgds, Larry
. |
I am using the Tungsol Round Plates Black Glass VT-231 as well on my Chenin. I stock up with several pairs because I noticed that the price of them tubes increases everytime I check them. I tried Kenrads, Sylvania, RCA, etc. recommended here by others but the Tungsol is the clear winner in my system.
I bought a pair recently which tested at 85 to 90% of NOS (~2100 to 2200 per side tested on my calibrated Hickok 6000A)and been running it for a month now. Last night out of curiosity, I re-tested the tubes again to see if they degrade somehow (the preamp does its job at about 4 hours a day minimum). What do you know, still very close if not the same to the original reading I got as per notes on my tube notebook dated last week of July! Not gassy, and life test is perfect(you can do this on the 6000A).
My point is that if you can find a pair that tested (very important)and is at least 80% of NOS (2500 micro-mhos on Hickok 6000A as a reference)
and cost reasonably lower than NOS ($225 last time I look)then you can save some money........................ for the WE350B in the future. |
Ok, a bit of a strange question. Does the Syrah PS only have a rectifier, or the rectifier/regulator combo? Every picture I've seen shows only the rectifier. Mine has all three, like the Cortese. But, Grannyring posted under Bwhite's system: I just purchased Syrah pre with the same power supply as the Cortese - one of a kind according to Supratek. So, what tube configuration does your PS have? I thought I'd get a little more info before I emailed Mick, and held up production for those of you waiting for your units! |
Jphii, the Syrah, Chardonnay and Chenin have a rectifier on the power supply & that's it, no regulators.
When I first saw Grannyring's pre, I thought it might be a Cortese power supply hooked to a Syrah - but Grannyring informed me otherwise.
I don't know the history of that unit - Mick might. |
I'll get a couple of pics up tonight so you all can see my Syrah. It must have been a custom deal, because I have all three on the power supply. Guess it's time to email Mick.
Joe |
for your respose. Well looking forward to the Chardonnay. I should have it in about 6 to 8 weeks. I do plan to use the stock tubes at least for a month or so before doing any kind of tube rolling.
Regards,
Jay |
I still haven't had a chance to get some pics up, but I did email Mick about my tube layout. I said: I bought Syrah serial #119 about a year ago. I have a question. All of the Syrahs I see on Audiogon & Audio Asylum have only the rectifier in the power supply. Mine has both the regulators & rectifier on the power supply. Was this an unusual configuration? #119 was built in July 2001, as per your initials on the bottom of the PS. It is Jarrah & copper. I am hoping you can tell me whats up with mine. He replied: Hi Joe
That one was a sort of early Cortese- it ended up being completely different , but some good things came out of that one.
MickM I guess I made out a lot better than I thought I did! All I know is: This piece brings me almost as much enjoyment as my Teres. And since it helps me enjoy my Teres even more, it will be here for a long time. Now, if you people would stop killing me with the WE350b's on ebay, I'd REALLY be happy! Joe |
And this thread was almost up where someone could see my post until the "war" between Didactically & Fatparrot escalated. |
