West…aud…
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Power Cord for Accuphase Amplifier
I have a new Accuphase P-4600 amplifier and am looking for a power cord to replace the stock. So far I’ve tried the Cullen Crossfire and the IceAge OFC Frankencable. While both cables have worked well on my source components they have not performed better than the stock on the amplifier. So to those who have Accuphase amplifiers what power cable has worked for you?
As I mentioned in other threads Accuphase strongly recommends that you use only the stock cord and so far that has been the best. The. other two have resulted in a darker sound with less soundscape openness.
I’ve been trying to stay under $500 for the cord but would be willing to go a little higher if it improves the amps performance.
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@audphile1 "I use high quality power cords” understand! the problem with “high quality cords” is a different understanding of key performance and reliability metrics. for example extreme high contact pressure and the same time small effective contact area plug will cut through noble tin (few um) plating layer, thus exposing contact base metal for oxidation. reputable interconnect manufacturer checks contact integrity after series of plug/unplug iterations (x100 times), which helps valued gear to work longer time at the same performance level. “scratched” IEC plug can cause short time phenomena of “hearable” PC replacement SQ improvement, and which is unique to each case. ideally IEC receptacle should be replaced together with PC using the same brand/design/series plug, latest rhodium plated contacts are very good to consider, specially for aged gear! |
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I guess I do not value my gear or anything else I have at all, simply because I don’t own a microscope. I use high quality power cords. I do not use hospital grade outlets as they strip the plating off the connectors on the power cords. The connectors I use are either gold or rhodium plated and they’re polished smooth to avoid scratching IEC. |
"Please keep in mind, after you scratch contact surface, contact resistance could dramatically increase, and then plugging “new fancy” cord will give you relief for few days.. then you need to try to “improve” sound again, by buying new PC :-) " - maybe in micro circuits, chips and tiny components, but in IEC plugs & receptacles, I don't buy it ... |
@audiophile1 "No plugs will scratch the IEC connectors" as an experienced analog design engineer I can say this is not correct! typically product from established hi-end company chooses IEC receptacle and plug (or assembled cable) from one company (Kawasaki, Amphenol, etc), which ensures reliability and interconnect performance for decades, because interconnect is checked many times and contacts are inspected for scratches, plating surface damages etc. wondering, if you ever looked IEC plug/rec. under microscope after experiments? Please keep in mind, after you scratch contact surface, contact resistance could dramatically increase, and then plugging “new fancy” cord will give you relief for few days.. then you need to try to “improve” sound again, by buying new PC :-) |
Because we’re enthusiasts here always looking for ways to improve sound and our listening experience. This hobby is about music, the gear that reproduces it, and the quality of the reproduction. If it’s music only enjoyment, any $50 half decent Bluetooth speaker would suffice
Accuphase like all manufacturing include a decent certified power cable that gets you started. There’s nothing wrong with trying a good aftermarket power cord to scratch the upgrade itch, satisfy curiosity and may be improve presentation. No plugs will scratch the IEC connectors. I’ve not seen one yet with any of the power cords I ever used. |
"Accuphase strongly recommends that you use only the stock cord " - That is because they are not going to recommend an aftermarket power cord because most are not UL approved and ones they provide are relativity inexpensive. They don’t want to be liable if there is an issue and keeps their costs down, not because it sounds better. |
@jfrmusic "Accuphase strongly recommends that you use only the stock cord and so far that has been the best" why not to rely on on Accuphase advice and to start enjoy music? Accuphase Engineers choose carefully IEC receptacle for amps and cable to active highest performance and not to damage amp using unknown plugs, which typically could rip off contact’s plating/make scratches etc. |
Wait, are you trying to say in order to hear the differences I have to listen to my hifi? Oh, now you tell us! I was trying to hear the differences by looking at test numbers in a forum! |
I would say any recommendation within a context of a completely different system and room acoustics, even if using the same amplifier, given unknown personal preferences and perception of good sound, isn’t any more valid than a general recommendation for a power cord that works great on amplifiers. I wouldn’t be that frustrated if I were you garebear… |
+1 @lalitk Audience is excellent. I owned several different power cords, interconnects and speaker cables. Their power cords (AU24se-i which were replaced by Studio One) are probably one of the best power cords I ever heard on 3 different DACs. They’re ever so slightly warm but not rolled off, with great bass and mids. I also highly recommend Audience speaker cables. AU24SX and FrontRow are fantastic. |
.......I had owned the following Accuphase amps ; the P-6100 and also the P-7100 and then went to their pure class A amp the the A -75. I first started out with the Cardas Clear Beyond and then to the Cardas Clear Beyond XL power cords. The Cardas power cords all worked well to my ears and were sweet and warm and detailed but not the final word on being truly detailed. I had them in place for about 6-7 years. However, when I bought the A-75 I knew I needed something a little more coherent and with more slam as the amp was a class A as I had noted. I now have the Shunyata Omega QR on that amp and it is getting the juice it needed and that baby now sings. Note : Shunayta has a new upper line of power cords so the Omega's QR's may be found at a really good price. Just my two cents ..... |
Audio Sensibility in Toronto makes high quality cables with Ohno continuous casting copper and sells direct to consumers - making them very good value: https://audiosensibility.com/blog/ I use their Statement SE power cord in my Accuphase amps - the A48 and E-380, as well as with my PS-530 power supply. I am very pleased with them all! The stock power cord supplied by Accuphase looks like a joke in comparison.
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@jfrmusic Really well written, it’s like there are actual adults still around 😄
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This is why I generally don't recommend any components for threads like this one. |
The basis for science is observation. Theory follows observation, then testing both positive and negative cases to prove a theory to be true. Observing and analyzing sound quality and the equipment producing it involves many dozens of variables. While there are a number of known and measured variables there are many more not measured and fully understood. Ultimately in this very complex landscape observation is more time effective than trying to understand all the science, particularly as a part time hobbyist. Also, trying to use a few variables to explain sound quality is a just gross oversimplification. On top of this you have differences in perception… from different skill levels. If you are new to assessing sound quality, then you may only notice gross differences in tonal balance and detail. As you develop skill, particularly if you do this in parallel with reading about sound qualities and then listening for the dozens of discernible attributes, you learn. You can keep learning more and more over decades. So, where you are in this development will change your perceptions of sound quality. Finally, we value different sound qualities differently.
So, while science is interesting (I am trained and was a practicing professional scientist for over a decade)… high end audio is primarily an observational pursuit if you are looking to put together a great sounding system. Thinking somehow that if an audio effect or cause does not have a confirmed scientific explanation and therefore is suspect or wrong is absolutely ridiculous. While a few gross effects on sound quality are easily scientifically explained, most are not… or are just not worth the Herculean effort required. So observation is key and the more experienced and educated you are in it the greater will be your ability to observe and describe the effects on a system of different pieces of equipment. |
That’s a logical fallacy, straw man argument:
No one here is suggesting that science be dismissed - except you. |
- Yep, just because it has better measurements doesn't mean it will sound best to all. "What can be more arrogant than to dismiss science in favor of pure subjectivity?" - Audio is not a objective endeavor from a listening point of view, it has to be subjective because the hardware has too many variables when interacting with other components. You then have human hearing and brain function where no 2 people on the planet are the same. Science can't explain everything because it was created by humans. |
@rtorchia I think the issue here is we all listen and perceive sound in different ways. It may simply be some are left brain and some right brain dominant. Obviously you can’t be convinced that cables make a difference and I can never concede that they don’t. We have both had different experiences. I’m not going to be dogmatic about this. However I can’t un- hear what I’ve heard for years and I certainly can’t expect your experience to change your perspective however ASR to me is very dogmatic. There are no exceptions to their position that only measurements matter and they seem unwilling to use the best measurement possible - their own ears. And if they do then we’re back to the different ways we perceive sound and more specifically music. Another possibility is that those of us who are “ subjective” oriented may be sensitive to and listen to reproduction characteristics that are not important to “objective” minded listeners. I’ve always believed there is a distinct difference between hearing music and listening. It’s a matter of degree of focus. Focus that is directed towards specific presentation characteristics. ASR offers a service that has value. Specification testing is important to verify a manufacturer’s claims. But to say that the specifications of audio equipment will always tell you exactly how it will sound is short sighted I initially went to ASR 4 years ago when I was getting back into audio. They led me to the Benchmark products which are highly revered there. So I bought the Benchmark stack : Amp, Pre, DAC. Great products especially for the money and of course they measure impeccably. When looking for speakers I heard other products with the speakers I bought. I realized even though Benchmark measured off the charts other products actually sounded better. After upgrading and confirming at home I went back to ASR to report that I found other amplifiers that sounded noticeably better than Benchmark even though stated specs were not as high as the Benchmark. Well the dogmatic tidal wave hit me and called me delusional. It was untenable to them. All amps once given level of basic specs are met all sound the same. There was no room for even consideration. It was like I was threatening their perception of reality. I had just experienced auditions of two or three amps with my speakers, DAC and streamer and they all sounded different and better than the Benchmark I had. So where does that leave us? We just have to go our separate ways. Those of us who have experienced these differences in amps, cables etc will enjoy the hobby and our search for more life like reproduction. Those who feel comfortable with living by the spec will enjoy their equipment knowing they have a component that meets their measurements criteria. I would never label the ASR group as delusional as they seem to think us subjective minded are. I just think they are unfortunately missing out on the greater improvement and refinement that is attainable. But as I noted those types of musical characteristics we are sensitive to may not be the ones important for them.
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The OP was very gracious about my criticism of power cords so we can agree to disagree. But to the person who said I was arrogant I beg to differ. What can be more arrogant than to dismiss science in favor of pure subjectivity? I think the OP would be best advised to put the money into speakers where improvements are audible. I hope he will read some reviews and comments on the unjustly maligned ASR. I thought my comments might be useful because I did the power cord thing hook, line, and sinker. Then, after a lot of listening and afterwards reading, realized it was nothing. I willingly admit that some of these luxury items look very cool but that isn’t why people buy them. Show me a measurable, quantifiable difference, something other than what the manufacturer supplies, and I will look again. |
@ rtorchia
Thanks for sharing your life-long experience, Two thumbs up!!! Stay healthy... |
@rtorchia Well then don’t make a statement like you did when the OP has already said he heard significant improvements upgrading a couple of his PCs because your comment comes across as arrogant and is utterly useless in this instance. Sometimes it’s better to say nothing at all. |
@rtorchia Sorry didn’t mean to offend you in anyway. Like you I have been an audiophile for over 50 years and learned many years ago how cables can change a system. We just have had different ways of listening and from my perspective I just don’t know how anyone can’t not hear these differences. They are so obvious. But I guess we all have different sensitivities to these differences or listen for different characteristics in a system. |
"I readily admit that these designer power cords look beautiful, but don't sound any different than a standard power cord. That is a legitimate opinion and many audiophiles subscribe to it. " - You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, however don't inject it into a thread that the OP just wants suggestions from others on a PC for a specific amplifier. He clearly doesn't share your view or your arrogant attitude. You made it clear that you tried aftermarket cords and didn't hear much of a difference. That sir, doesn't mean that others don't. Everyone hears differently and brains interpret differently. Neither side is right or wrong, it just is. |
Because I don't believe in power cords the OP told me: @rtorchia You clearly do not know how to listen or listen to music and recordings that would never allow discrimination, have a system that can’t resolve the differences or have never tried a better cable. Cables make a difference. Sometimes not for the better but they do make a difference and when you get the right one the improvement is clearly evident.
I am 73 years old and have been a music lover and audiophile for over half a century. During that time I have owned numerous classic and high level components. Many of my friends were audiophiles and heard their equipment. I was in the music and hi-fi business while in college and graduate school. Yes, I listen to a lot of music and don't take kindly to being told I don't know how to do so. Yes, I owned some fancy power cords that I was extremely pleased to sell. Why? Because I didn't hear an iota of a difference. But I must confess that I am an ASR enthusiast and believe in science. I readily admit that these designer power cords look beautiful, but don't sound any different than a standard power cord. That is a legitimate opinion and many audiophiles subscribe to it. |
@pennfootball71 Haven’t upgraded the cable on my power amplifier yet. If I do I will probably spend a lot more on that cable. @rtorchia You clearly do not know how to listen or listen to music and recordings that would never allow discrimination, have a system that can’t resolve the differences or have never tried a better cable. Cables make a difference. Sometimes not for the better but they do make a difference and when you get the right one the improvement is clearly evident. |
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